FindingPeace1

I hear that about magical thinking. I don't know how to not have it right now, I guess. I guess the magic part is if I see the good and it hides the bad. I think seeing both is okay.
Duh duh duh...you ready? Lying, sneaking, hiding, and self abuse is NOT okay.

Thumper, would you further explain "he followed through on nothing"? I guess I have a hard time seeing the future negatives right now. Can you paint the picture? It seems your husband is like mine. Maybe it will make more sense.

FindingPeace1

so sunny, what happened? he's in treatment?

Jadmack25

Dear Wife, my late xah's drinking didn't result in "nasty" behavior to me, or our kids, but it sure upset the financial applecart at times, twice BIGtime. I didn't know he had been having Vodka during work hours, it never even crossed my mind. One day he came home and promptly collapsed on the floor, just as he took the top off a bottle, which covered him in beer, and that smell plus blood from split scalp was gross.

The emergency Dr immediately labelled him as "drunk", and of course innocent little me hit the roof, swearing he had not had a drink and demanding he be properly checked.

Shock, horror!! Blood test comes back and he is twice the legal limit for driving. It seems he must have been driving this way for ages unknown to anybody.
While he was resting, I went to his office and found the damned Vodka, and taxed him about it later. He denied it was his, said he had taken it from an employee.

He was advised to change from beer to white wine and soda, so he sat on porch every night and drank from his carafe. I had no idea he demolished a cask of wine each night, til much later on.

Fast forward 5 years and his attitude and behavior changed, until I told him it was out of control, and he straight away said he would stop drinking completely. Guess who believed him?

He was back to the happy man again, but 6 months later returned to his porch with a carafe of "soda water". My neighbour found a pile of Vodka bottles behind her woodpile, and I asked him about them. He went right off his trolley, and told me that I was never happy, he had given it up and all he got was accusations, so he was going back to having a few drinks at night.

I finally left a man I didn't know anymore, after 27 years of marriage and he went to live with our eldest daughter, who had the hassles of coping with his increasing ill health and dementia, til he went into a nursing home. He finally got peace in August this year.

My 3 daughters, in there 40's and with kids of their own, remember him as a loving, interested, funloving dad for many years, but bitterly recall the last 20 years as a big loss. My eldest grand-daughter can remember her lovely Grampus, but tries not to dwell on the man he became, while the other 4 children only knew a miserable, grumpy and ill old man.

What memories of your husband do you want for your child/children and grandkids?

Alcoholism not only damages the addicted one, and their partner, it also takes so much from everyone around them, literally unto the second and third generations.
Added to this is the genetic material passed down, so that alcoholic tendencies are found timeafter time, generation after generation.

My RABF is the 5th generation, that he knows of, that is definitely alcoholic and of his 2 sons, the eldest is too afraid to even try drinking, and the younger was killed at 21 when he drove into a tree while drunk.

A baby needs the best start it can get, healthy, loving parents and good genes. Alcoholism is not something that goes with healthy parenting or good genetics.

God bless

FindingPeace1

So, I am going to talk to him tomorrow (he's off work). But I am scared to death. I'm scared I'm wrong and he's not drinking that much (not likely). I'm scared it's not really a problem for him (not likely either). I'm scared it IS a problem and it will all come to pass as you warn.
I'm scared because life is like a garden with him, but drinking is like a big brick wall in the garden and I am going to slam up against it. I'm afraid of him being grumpy and shut down and defensive. I'm scared he'll get mad at me for accusing him unfairly and I'll doubt myself and feel like I'm a big jerk. I'm scared of him shutting down and not being willing to work with me and me having to hold up my end of the bargain and not have kids. I'm scared he will go FURTHER underground with his drinking and I won't know. I'm scared his blood sugars are bad because of the drinking and he's keeping it from me (its a diabetes thing). I'm sad that I would have to think that. I'm mad I can't trust him! I'm mad because I have NO IDEA how I will in the future!!!
I'm scared if he just buries it and won't address it too long I will have to make some hard decisions about our future. I'm scared to lose him, our dreams, our happy life - the life I want...I'm scared I am wrong (even though I think I'm not!). What if I am! But I know if it wasn't a problem, he wouldn't react so upset and defensive.
I'm scared I am going to do it "wrong" or if I am too soft or too angry it will shut him down. I want to say the "right" thing, although I know there isn't one. I'm scared because he isn't religious and AA is. I'm scared he'll use that as an excuse not to go. I'm scared he'll never go because he's so private. I'm scared I'll have to decide for myself to stay or go.
I don't want to wait till he is abusive or can't keep a job or all these things you say he will become. I don't want to give up my life potential of parenting waiting to see if he ruins himself. Its also hard to imagine leaving someone for the possibility of future suck Does that make sense? To give up all his good cuz he's a sneaker, drinker, hider, denier. He is! But he's the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me. The last two years of marriage have been the best in my life. He shares my interests and values and we have SO MUCH fun together. He takes care of me in so many ways. He is a planner. He is responsible. He is loving and affectionate and romantic and helpful. He is IT! But for this YUCK. Some stupid yuck that I can almost ignore, but can't.
Is it stupid to hope beyond hope he will concede? That he will accept? That he will change? It IS! How SAD! How very very sad I am.
I'm not at the (I guess later) stage of he's wonderful when he's not being an ass. He's just wonderful and I love him and I am GRIEVING!
Can you talk to me about the discussion? About how you have done it? About what decisions y'all have made for yourselves? I saw one person say they moved out and said they wouldn't come back until he had done a year of AA. What have y'all done? I need...something.
Thanks.

NYC_Chick

I left xabf and refused to speak with him until he went to aa. He went, then stopped. I broke up with him and would not see him until he told his family and went to aa. He did, then started drinking again. I allowed email contact only until he was in aa. He went, then stopped. I gave in completelyand got back into the relationship. It became so crazy that I was unable to eat and lost 15 pounds about in 2 weeks. I was skin and bones. I decided to save myself and haven't talked to him since. Unfortunately this disease will kill you almost as fast as it kills them if you let it.

BuffaloGal

Yep, that about sums it up, doesn't it?

During a time when our marriage was going well, and I was super happy to be a wife and mother, despite never having dreamed of those things when I was young... I caught him hiding his addictive hobbies from me again. I had thought those problems were solved. It was like being sucker punched. (As he said once, after joining a discussion group for pornography addiction: "These people don't understand how much they're hurting their significant others." I snapped back, "I know. No matter how many times you tell them, they don't get it. You can talk to them until you're blue in the face and it won't sink in. That's why they're called addicts."

And I thought: If he does this s**t when things are good, it's only going to be that much worse when things are bad. He is never, ever, ever, going to stop drinking and looking at naughty pics online when I'm not around, and I can't live with it.

My former husband tries, from time to time, to be honest. I respect the few times he's managed to pull it off. We had that discussion you're talking about. During it, I inquired, "How could you be... so... STUPID??"

He looked at the ground and said, "I don't know." Then he went in the bedroom and shut the door. Those were my answers: ignorance and unwillingness to look at it. Right then, I gave up. It was several months before I asked him to move out, but our marriage was terminally damaged when the door shut.

This conversation took place 6 years ago. Now, I still love this person. He's a good man, he's an attentive father, I don't regret having a baby with him. (However, he never could completely appreciate me for who I was-- he wanted me to lose weight, wear makeup, be more competitive. In some ways he saw what I wasn't a lot more clearly than what I was. To this day, he significantly underestimates my abilities, and it still hurts, some.)

The only way I was able to move on was to give myself permission to still love him and still let him move on to wherever it was he needed to be... in his case, into a relationship with a woman whose role is, essentially, to be his mommy. The well paying career he had was ended by the IT crash of a decade ago, hastened by his lack of social skills. The girlfriend before me tried to train him in corporate politics, but those lessons didn't take.

Change? Well, recently he told his partner, and my daughter, that he'll quit drinking only when they haul him off to the hospital, presumably for liver failure. He's not stupid. Underneath, he knows exactly how much addiction has cost him. He doesn't need anyone to explain it. In our relationship, he was the first person to use the word alcoholic. (Well... he said borderline alcoholic. Now I know borderline alcoholics are creatures classified with unicorns, Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster.)

Today I am in a relationship with someone without any addiction issues. The garden isn't what my earlier one could have been... but there's no brick walls in it, either. There are no ugly surprises. He's one of the most honest people I've ever met, it's like he's missing the BS gene. Really. Privately, I think he has Asperger syndrome, for that and other reasons. I've been pleasantly surprised at how much more quickly and painlessly relationship problems can be addressed when no one's first priority is to hide the truth. I've become more honest myself, because of my interactions with this man.

Good luck. (And, parenthood is fabulous. My favorite person in the world to spend time with is my daughter. Best wishes with whatever you decide.)

--BG

steve11694

My AW has no desire to raise, be with, take care our young child. Wife has a high IQ that helps her to create better rationalizations. The only thing on aw's agenda is alcohol.

my only thought is that if you truly want a child and uncertainty of being able to find another father scares you more than seeing this guy deteriorate and self destruct, then do what your heart tells you.
You should be able to take care of your child alone or with family support for if/when father deteriorates.
I have a young child that I love very much and wifes descent into hell has torn our family apart, but I am very grateful for our child. BTW, wifes alcoholism developed after having the baby.

You say you are only one he trusts. IMO, that means he does not want to lose his enabler. No doubt you take care of him and cushion his falls.

cassandra2

No one here knows your husband and therefore cannot say whether he is good or bad. What we do KNOW is alcoholism/addiction. So the experience we share here is based on alcoholism/addiction. Its what we know.

I am sure that your husband is a good man to you. You have mentioned that several times. Where I think the misunderstanding is is that alcoholism/addiction DISTORTS their personalities over time.

In my situation my RABF was so emotional, loving, wanted to share feelings, was very touchy feely. I LOVED that about him. But when addiction reared its ugly head that part of him went away. He was cold, numb, unfeeling. Before addiction my RABF was a devoted family man. Played tea time with our girls, let the girls polish his nails, played and laughed with them all the time. That slowly started to change when his addiction progressed. He no longer did those things. He spent alot of time alone. He wasnt as eager to spend time with me and the kids.

So that is the experience that I have had with the progression aspect of addiction.

There also is another thing to consider. When I first started coming here I would ask questions like "This isnt the man that I met, why is he being this way?" And I would get responses like "This is who he is today, this is who he is choosing to be." or "Maybe this is REALLY the way he is and maybe that devoted family guy was an act." That would make me so angry because I thought these people dont know him how can they say this is really who he is.

What I didnt understand is that sometimes with addicts you really dont know if it was always there and therefore this is how they really are or if this is how they have become naturally or if this is how the addiction has progressed their behavior.

Addiction is complex as is everything that goes with it. I hope that maybe that helped clear up some of the misunderstanding.

No one here thinks your husband is a "bad" guy. We simply just dont know. We can only comment on what you have mentioned. You are asking about alcoholism and we can only comment on that aspect.

Take care. Keep posting. You are on the right track.

honoryourself

Ultimatums don't really work.. I mean, do they work for anyone? It still has to come from inside. If he agrees to an ultimatum that I make, like, say--quit drinking and smoking or else I'll leave--then he will resent me even if he complies. If he doesn't comply and calls my bluff then I have to leave. Am I ready for that? I don't know, and until I know I won't make that ultimatum

I can tell him the truth, and if he cares he'll listen, but he doesn't really try ot listen that well. I think he's always thinking of an excuse, a reason, a deflection.. etc. Mostly when I tell him he's done something that hurts me, he flips it straight back around on me.

I told him I was concerned about his smoking and didn't want to have children with him while he was a smoker, or have children around a smoker. I also said smoking affects his sperm and the health of a baby. Rather than acknowledge what I said or act concerned at all, he flipped it on me, telling me, yeah, well you throw up sometimes and that's not healthy for a baby and I don't want children with you until you fix your problem either. This all without him ever once calmly talking to me about my issues or anything, of course. It only comes up as a deflection or redirection of blame.

I don't know, it's tiresome.

I got really tired of the insanity in my life. My H said he was an A, then the next week said all his friends told him he wasn't, then he said I MADE him think he was an A, now he describes it as "yeah I drank more when we were having problems in our marriage", etc. I mean it's always an excuse. I haven't pushed it, because I know it's not worth it. Fighting over whether or not he's an alcoholic doesn't make him a great husband.

You mentioned follow through-- my husband put stars in my eyes when we met. He wanted all these great things, way more than anyone I'd been with before. I felt such passion and love for him and all these great adventures we were going to go on together. Everyone around us who knew us thought we were just so wonderful and perfect together. And we were, unless i EVER rocked the boat and questioned his behavior, drinking, spending, gambling (hasn't done that in a long time, admits it's an issue), etc.

I only started my journey about a month ago. Until then I was in denial. I was suffering like a crazy person in my own house, trapped in my life. I would ball up on the floor when he wasn't home and cry until blood vessels burst in my eyes. On other days he'd come home and make a beautiful meal and call me amazing and tell me wonderful things. He'd be all about fixing up the garden or doing an improvement on the house, whatever it is. But if you asked him to do something not on his list, LOOK OUT. NOT FUN? No deal. Not fun? No follow through. I mean he would do a fair amount of chores, but not without letting me know how much he was doing.

Right now we are kind of in limbo. I am not ready to walk away. The past two weeks he's working hard on us, but I have a lot of doubts, and I don't trust him based on the lies he's told me about his drinking. I'm ready to have a mature relationship, and I'm working on making MYSELF available to a mature relationship. He can either be the partner in that relationship or he can not be. I can't make him into a person he's not but I am working on deciding what I do and don't want to accept in my life.

A big part of me is starting to be ready to admit "I made a mistake." But there's this other fighter part of me that says, "stick it out or you're just giving up." I'm moving closer to myself and further from him.

My favorite part of Al-Anon was learning these two principles:
Let go and Let God
One day at a time.


Right now I'm taking it one day at a time rather than trying to force immediate change or run in the opposite direction. It's really helped me to maintain a level of serenity in the madness..


Good luck to you. It's a journey! But I really do look forward to learning more about who I am and what is OK or not OK to me. I don't think I ever really built that structure out for myself.

24Years

"Just drinking, and hiding, and lieing." Your husband sounds like he could be a twin of my husband except mine has been doing that for 24 years! He started out as a binge drinker for about the first 15 years, binging maybe once and sometimes twice a week, and from appearances moderating any other time he drank (if at all) during any given week. I thought he hid it because he knew I didn’t like him drinking in our home (I grew up where you drank for special occasions, etc., not for no apparent reason). I definitely know better today, and only God knows the full story. I now know that the hiding is a red flag, period.

Now he's a highly functional alcoholic. I believe highly functional in many ways because of boundaries I made that he agreed to. The problem is, he is still an alcoholic although it took 15 years of our marriage for me to learn that; because, like you, he had, and still has, many good qualities. The hiding is insidious, seems to me to prolong the inevitable. It is possible I gave him many more chances because I never knew the full scope of what was really happening.

It seems to me one question to ask yourself is do you want to live with an alcoholic? Everything else becomes secondary. Continuing to educate yourself will be very important as well. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it. I tried to reason, plead, you name it. All it did was prolong the inevitable, as he continued to hide (with promises to moderate), which he seemed to do (like a rollercoaster). The reality is, he has such a high tolerance, what is moderation (e.g.. ¼ bottle of vodka, ½ bottle, 3/4 bottle, only God knows…he is perfect at hiding it).

I know, as do you, the great person my spouse is while sober. The problem is, he’s an alcoholic; and he still believes he can moderate without any help. Since we have children, I did my best to protect them from his unavailability while drinking (I kept busy with them, etc. since he drank in the evenings). To think that "unavailability" was okay. I think I was in survivor mode for a time because of their age and the fact that I was a stay at home mom when first seeing red flags. From my experience, even if "unavailable" was all your spouse is while drinking...is that okay to you and to your children? Unfortunately, as so many people can attest to, that is just the beginning of a very sick process. It will, and does get worse if your husband doesn't choose to see a problem and make a change.

Talk about a slow process for me…he was so controlled in so many ways it took 18 years of our marriage before I finally realized things were never going to get better. Hard to believe, but even he admits he isn’t sure when it all started (the lack of control combined with control), may have been as young as 12 (and I just found that out this year).

I know one thing for sure, I wouldn’t have any children with him until you are completely through the hurdle that brought you here in the first place. You say he is “present”; not while he is drinking, which I learned is a very important distinction to make. You said you have tried to accept, but it is not working…it definitely will not be working with children (double trouble, no pun intended).

You have my best wishes, ((((hugs)))) and prayers to you.

kellthebelle

Hi wife of a drinker, I am one too. This is my first post. I am posting to tell you I was in your shoes once. I had 2 children from a previous marriage before I met my current AH. He was great with my kids, terrific with me all was wonderful in the beginning. His drinking was what I considered "normal", just once in awhile. Not a big deal. He really wanted a child of his own. Because I loved him sooooo much I agreed. He was so into the pregnancy, talked to the baby through my stomach, memorized What to Expect When You're Expecting, absolutely amazing until I was 8 1/2 months pregnant. Completely out of the blue he came home from work one day and told me he was leaving me that he didn't love me anymore.

He ended up coming back when our son was 1 month old; drunk and our lives have been hell ever since. His father was an abusive alcoholic and it was like the birth of our child triggered something in him. He just snapped and was never able to go completely back.

He is now out of our home, hasn't seen our son in a month (who is now 11), and if I have any say his access will be very limited and supervised.

Please think really hard with your brain not your heart about the type of life you want to lead. Do you want a healthy, happy, sane life for you and any children you may have?

catlovermi

Welcome to SR, Kellthebell!

Please do make your own thread so folks "see" you as a newcomer and can welcome you into our fold.

I hope you'll find a lot of support and useful information, experience, strength, and hope in this difficult process of untangling the effects of addictive behavior on families of substance addicts.

It's a bewildering journey that moves in little steps, but there are folks here ALL ALONG that journey to help support you just like the posts here in Wifeofadrinker's thread.

Welcome!

CLMI

NewMe11109

Wifeof drinker --

The point of any intervention is to try to help the alcoholic hit their bottom earlier than they would on their own. However, you cannot control the alcoholic. All you can do is to control your own actions.

I am not an expert on this, but my wife set very clear limits and consequences for me.

I posted them previously (click on the quoted link below). I'm not saying that they work for everyone, but they did for me.