Swanky

Hi everyone, I'm new here but from reading these threads I feel like I've found "home". I'm dealing with an alcoholic friend who meant a lot to me and still does, but I know if I engage in any further contact I'll only make everything worse. But... it's so hard. I'm not made of stone.

Here's the mess:

I knew he was having problems with his marriage, mainly because of his alcoholic spouse (or at least that's what he blamed it all on), and I suspected he was started to drink also, but I had no idea how much it was spiraling. Some people are good at hiding it, I suppose. He was still high functioning and doing very well with his career, caring for his children, holding down the fort, etc.
But then all was revealed when he had what can only be described as a big huge booze-fueled breakdown. I wanted to be supportive and he told me he was in recovery. I made it clear I would only talk to him so long as he was sober and in a program. I did not expect perfection, just the effort. But then it became clear to me that something wasn't adding up and he admitted that he had quit AA (after a rehab) because he felt it wasn't "smart". He is a very bright person and very much on the left-brain, no-nonsense side. I suggested the Rational Recovery people if AA wasn't for him. But he had to do SOMETHING if he wanted to have contact with me.
Again, he told me he was practicing sobriety. Again, I accepted that. And then he called my house, got my husband, and was so drunk he couldn't even say his own name for a few minutes. My husband didn't even know who it was which is why he stayed on the phone, alarmed. Let's just say some very inappropriate things were said, as well as some things I had previously confided. My husband, who is one of the best people on the face of this earth, remained calm and told me about it later.
I told my friend this was the end of the line. No more contact with me, ever. This was a very, very difficult thing for me to do, because I valued this friendship deeply. I cared. And this was one heck of a person before alcohol took over. Seriously, an amazing person. So anyway, he said he was deeply ashamed and promised to stay away from me forever.
Well, I kept getting emails, which dumped automatically to trash and auto-deleted every 30 days. I only saw them if I went rooting in there for something I needed to retrieve, but the ones I did see were so emotionally manipulative. This is someone who knows me well. Each email changed tack, hoping to get under my skin until I responded. I never have, and never wanted to. I was done.
Anyway, they have started coming more and more frequently. I do read them because I'm getting alarmed now and feel I need to stay on top of it. But the second to last one was horribly inappropriate, and the last one admitted he was on a huge binge, but now he apologizes. It unfortunately contained some other things that really, really made me sad and want to contact him.
I'm now having a hard time, the hardest in over a year. Like I said, I'm not made of stone. I know logically this is a master manipulator, but my heart is reaching out. He lied about sobriety, and now he's lied about the promise never to contact me again. And yet this time, he's gotten to me.
I now fear another horrible phone call when I'm not home. But I also long for this friendship. I was watching the Yankees game on the weekend and all I could think of was how much I wanted to watch it together, or talk about it later (assuming he was sober). The stupid wishful thinking of a sucker.
And the real problem is that I feel guilty for wanting to contact him again, because I know I should just be mad and "over it".

Anyway, that's the story. I know it's nothing you guys haven't heard before, but like I said I feel like I've found a community that will understand, and it feels good to have a place to let it out.

Thanks for listening. Sorry for the long post.

GiveLove

I'm glad you found us, because yes, we do "get it" even though we wish we didn't have to. Aand it's a terrific place to let stuff out. From how you present yourself, I feel like I can be honest with you.

I too have an alcoholic friend. I've known him for many years and we have traveled together in the past - never intimate. But when it looked as though he was being disrespectful to his partner, and when it looked like his alcoholism had destroyed the boundaries I'd set (don't ruin my home's serenity, respect my limitations, etc.) I cut off contact with him, blocked his email, and cut him loose.

My husband is approximately the most laid-back, trusting, understanding person in this Solar System. He would do anything for me. But if he knew that I was investing this much of my emotional intimacy in an alcoholic (married) man who clearly had no concern whatsoever for my marriage -- as evidenced by all the emails against my wishes, all the contact, the inappropriateness, the calls -- he would leave me before it could proceed any further, and I would not blame him at all.

Consider whether this friendship is worth losing your husband's trust. And consider whether your actions are fair to him, and to this man's wife. Not saying you are doing anything wrong AT ALL, but I know I got quite a revelation from examining my own motivations in a similar situation.

Unsolicited advice, I know, but just know that it comes from a place of concern for you. An active alcoholic will often drag you down with them if you don't protect yourself...ruining your life as well as their own.

Jazzman

Having been in your husbands shoes once I had to really think hard if I should reply to this thread because it's a definite hot button for me, but I have to say this. If I were your husband I would have been really hurt over this. And if I really knew just how much you were obsessing over another man I would have to rethink my commitment to you.

naive

hi swanky-

glad you're here.

it's very hard to watch someone you care about self-destruct and do nothing about it. however, the best people to help him are other alcoholics. i know you want to help your friend but the reality is that there is help available for him, which he is currently refusing because he thinks he is "smarter" than the experience of AA.

these are red-flags in my opinion and it sounds asif you have developed some sort of enabler/addict relationship with him.

the reality is that an active addict will take down everyone who cares about them.

i would recommend that you encourage him to go back to AA and get help and then go no contact.

also, perhaps do a bit of research on co-dependents and see if you can see yourself in relationship to this friend.

naive

sclarke64448

Hey Swanky welcome to SR. You say you are telling us things we have heard before. We'll tell you things you've heard before - and you know what we're going to say. Stay no contact! Be cruel to be kind. I have been posting on here since the end of July - about six weeks after my xabf went no contact with me (I still cannot believe it was that way round!!!!) And only earlier today on another thread I said that despite all the tears shed since June 19th, when I last heard from him, a large part of me thanks him for doing me the biggest favour he's ever done me and actually dreads a moment where he might pick up the phone. Have you read Co-Dependent No More? Seriously they are master manipulators. Everyone here will tell you they hook you and reel you in, make them feel sorry for you. SR has proven a real eye opener to me. I remember the exact moment my boyfriend reeled me in, the exact moment of manipulation - at the end of our second date when he said I was going to go back to my life and my family while he had no one. Seriously much as though I still feel I love him, I wish I'd turned and run. Seriously, make some distance and work on yourself and your inner strength. Put you first! I wish I had - my life would be very different right now. Good luck xxx

allforced

Hi!
Yes I completely get your situation. My abf is also very manipulative and if I ever decide to ignore him, he knows exactly what to say to get under my skin.
I feel like you seem to be attached to this person more than in a friendship way. Maybe I am wrong but thats the feeling I get. I think the Yankee game statement is your mind making an excuse to see or talk to him, because you can't get him out of your mind. I worry about your relationship with your husband. You said is is an amazing person, and I would hate to see you hurt him over someone who is obviously not stable.
If you are having other feelings for this other person I think you should really address them. Is there someone you can trust and talk to about this?
And think if this "friendship" were to continue to hurt your husband and offend him, do you want to jepordize that for someone who manipulates you and lies to you?
Coming from a person in a relationship of that sort, it is not fun. An emotional rollercoaster , for sure.
I wish the best of luck to you and whatever happens!!

Swanky

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for the welcomes and the replies (and understanding).

Just to clarify one thing re: my husband, the only way I would resume a friendship would be with his knowledge and acceptance. His feelings trump everything. We call ourselves a closed club. As it is I need to tell him about the latest emails (now that another family crisis has died down - the man has his limits).

Last week when this happened my therapist suggested that I write a response that was just for me, like a journal entry, to help me organize my thoughts/feelings and get it off my chest. The main paragraph that I wrote was, "If you got sober (which has to be your choice) I'd enjoy your friendship. But I know friendship isn't what you want anymore and even if you could settle for that I don't know if [my husband] would accept it. I'll never (intentionally) hurt him. So things are where they were a year ago."

I guess what I'm feeling is some illusion/delusion that if the alcohol would just get under control then he would go back to the person he was before. But I know there's really no going back. I'm missing a ghost. It's hard. And I feel bad for feeling bad about it. Complicated!

As many of you pointed out, I had to dig deep and really examine these feelings and take a good hard look at what was going on with me. I finally likened it to the brother/sister dynamic I never had. I'm looking for it now in a place that's broken or that I can't seek out any longer for my own self-preservation. It hasn't been replaced by anyone else so this was hanging around somewhere inside me, residually, and he finally found the right button to push and bring it all back. Like I said, he's been changing tacks, striking out up until now. But if you bang on a console long enough you'll finally hit a switch that lights it up.

Thanks for the suggestions re: codependency. There are CA meetings around here. I could check one out. I didn't feel like I fit in with the Al-Anon meeting I tried when all this started. (I will check out Co-Dependent No More, too.)

Thanks again for the understanding and insights. It's such a relief to have a place to talk about this. And thanks for the candid questions. I appreciate that kind of support - its feels "real".

GiveLove

Big hugs, Swanky. It sounds like you're doing the hard work to get through this. And I got a little teary when you mentioned missing a ghost. That is exactly what it's like. You want so badly for them to be what they used to be; it's so hard to face that that's never going to happen.

Blessings, hugs, and strength to you and your husband, and prayers for your friend that he finds his own way.

Swanky

Thanks, BigLove. I went shopping this morning and picked up Co-Dependent No More and the sequel. It was my local book seller and I almost hesitated to ask for the title, but before I could finish the owner said "Oh yeah! That's a classic, we always have a copy."

My husband seemed in a pretty good place so I told him about the latest emails. He got wary at first and asked if I'd responded, but then relaxed when he knew that I was still in the "no contact" policy. I told him that I was worried about the phone calls starting up again and he laughed. "Assuming I didn't hang up in time, there's nothing that guy could say to bother me. He's just a stupid bumbling drunk." My husband likes to cut to the chase.

So thanks again for the advice and support. It helps.