MissFixit

what is sex negative? neither male nor female?

Hammer

freya,

You make a Very Good point that a Pole Dancer could be a fine sponsor.

Please consider that I wrote that back 4 years ago. When I was pretty much full-bore jackass. Now maybe I am down to half-ass jackass. I hope.

I had joked about that stuff for years. Not to put down the Pole Dancer. but rather . . . because . . . .egad . . . how to say this . . . That your girl slept with girls is . . . ummm . . . sort of bragging rights.

How is that for Jackass?

I have learned a little. Maybe just a little, since.

You might have caught a thread on here where I was laughing about getting a motel room at a Crack Ho Motel, while attending an AA conference in Shreveport with Mrs. Hammer. I was walking around joking about the Crack Ho Motel while Mrs. Hammer was horrified with me as some of her friends there from AA were former Crack Hos.

----------------

Probably about 6 months after that top post in this thread, I had settled in to the Alanon Group I was talking about there. One of my friends there was a deathly thin Black girl. This was before Mrs. Hammer's Anorexia set in, so I pretty much assumed the Black girl was a Crack Ho with AIDS, that was not uncommon in the 'hood, and I figured I was a hell-of-a-guy for sitting with her, being nice, and holding her hand during the closing prayers. And thinking that Mrs. Hammer and Crack Hos would be pretty impressed with me, now.

Turned out I was all wrong. My Alanon friend -- she was a very intelligent and educated person, with the sweetest, smoothest voice and wisdom. I can still hear her now, as I close my eyes. She was not an addict. Nor Ho. Nor any of the rest of my ignorance. She had Sickle Cell Anemia and was slowly dying week-by-week.

While I thought I was being all nice and magnanimous, in truth I was being a being an ass. It was my deadly-thin-Black-friend-girl who was being nice and kind to an ignorant, cracker, redneck . . . me.

When I figured that out I went home and cried about it on and off for a week. Still brings tears to my thinking about it.

-------------

So at any rate.

Thank you for your very good points. I welcome your corrections of me. Seems to be the only way I learn is for someone to tell or show me that I am wrong.

Thank you.

Hammer

Sure. That is what is called the 13th Step.

In truth, the Pole Dancer should not have been sponsoring anyone. She was too early in the program, and should have been working on herself.

And Mrs. Hammer can get wwaaayyyy across the line.

getthere

Glad you cleared that up Hammer,i was surprised when I read it,as you always seemed so experienced when it comes to alanon,i suppose I should have checked the date.

freya

'Sex-negative' as a term used in Sex and Gender Studies (or Queer Studies or Women's Studies) refers to an attitude toward sex (referring to 'sex acts, behaviors, practices' here, not sex as 'male, female, intersexed or asexual) and sexuality that is narrow, rigid, limited/limiting, judgmental, controlling, fearful, moralistic, etc... and pretty much all-around negative. Sex-negative people tend to think of sex and sexuality as taboo and/or dirty and/or embarrassing. They tend to become very uncomfortable when the topic comes up and often will try to shut the discussion down by relying on common social and/or religious sex-negative beliefs and stereotypes (i.e. like the idea that a pole-dancer or a stripper or someone who is comfortable with casual sexual encounters cannot possibly be a recovered and/or spiritual person) and/or by manipulating or playing off of the guilt and shame that so many people carry around this part of their lives.

freya

choublak

There are a few guys in the Al-Anon meetings I go to, but even if I were single I don't think I'd want to date them because they are too much like me, to the point where it would be a disaster.

Hammer

oh yeah.

There is some saying about Sick + Sick does not equal Well or something like that. (help if anyone knows the right way that goes).

Way I figure things right now, I cannot handle the one I have, who needs another right now?

Hammer

Okay. Step Sponsor Drama Update . . .

I am going through them like a Polar Bear jumping from Iceberg to Iceberg, floating South. Earlier today, I thought I was going swimming.

My . . . .

(less than a week, now)

. . . Step Sponsor calls this morning and said that her . . .

(Yes, HER. Yes, I did "conveniently" leave this out of this discussion. Yes. I know, I know),

. . . Sponsor forbid her from going past Step 3 with me, but she could do up through Step 3, but no further . . . .

[Step 4 can get rather intense due to Sexual Issues]

She recommended that I go to the Area Huge "Mecca" Meeting at noon today and plead my case to a guy I call "Yoda." 30 years in, Sponsor of all Sponsors.

(My inner jackass brayed inside my head -- Great , if she is not my sponsor does THAT mean I can date her?)

So I went to the meeting. Plead my case . . .

(while I stared so hard at the toes of my shoes, I drilled holes through them)

Yoda turned me down.

Sent me to another.

Who also turned me down.

(I was thinking This Polar Bear is Going Swimming)

BUT the second guy put me in contact with a Quiet Low-Key Group . . . .

Who are JUST starting a 20 Week Intense Men Group Step Process Study Group intended to work folks RIGHT THROUGH THE STEPS -- RIGHT!

I am signed up.

Can keep my current . . .

(6 days now)

Step Sponsor for Step 1, 2, 3 and THEY WILL ASSIGN ME a Sponsor for Step 4 and beyond.

ONE HAPPY POLAR BEAR, HERE, LET ME TELL YOU.

Thank You, God.

Who . . . Closes one door and opens opens up the Toll Free Super-Highway . . .

PohsFriend

So....

There is sometimes a misconception that affairs start in a bedroom or that they start with intent.

Not so much. There are a lot of people who would NEVER have an affair except that well, they do.

Affairs typically start when a member of the opposite sex is meeting an unmet emotional need because that creates intimacy and then another need or two and then whoooops.

By no means would I suggest that having an opposite sex sponsor is going to or even likely to lead to an affair but if they are someone you find remotely - I mean REMOTELY attractive then think that through.

When do you really need your sponsor and why? If there comes a time when my wife relapses and I am very emotional and very upset with my wife and feeling betrayed and yada yada yada and I want to bawl my eyes out I'm thinkin I'm a WHOLE lot better off crying on Hammer's lumpy old nasty shoulder 4 inches from his hairy armpit because there ain't no way in hell Hammer or I are all that likely to get confused there - we're gonna bitch and moan and commiserate and etcetera (Hammer - let's assume I'm 2% less appealing than I described you buddy - I'm illustratin here not being ugly... well yeah, OK, think of me as ugly that helps make the point).

Now... freeze frame, remove Hammer's aforementioned lumpy and malodourous shoulder, insert silky smooth, jasmine scented shoulder which is strategically located about 4" above a .....different gland that men seem to have an odd fascination with (guilty, can't deny it, can't explain it, it's one of those things I've just learned to accept).

Now.... If I am feeling misunderstood and hurting and let's assume that our aforementioned hypothetical pole dancer has a heart of gold and just collects those singles so that she can send care packages to starving kids in the third world and she's not one to flaunt her pulchritude for nefarious purposes.... well crap, that's WORSE. Empathy and understanding and smooth jasmine scented... BAD BAD BAD BAD!!!!!!!!

joking aside, when we are in crisis mode with a spouse and turn to a sponsor or a friend or other source of understanding and compassion to vent it's good to feel understood and valued and it's good to provide that for someone who is hurting but this isn't a recovery thing it's a marriage thing and a boundary thing. I am nuts about my wife and I genuinely don't think there is a woman who could turn my head but hey, when I met Poh she was off limits for other reasons and whoooooops.

Now my man Hammer? I think I can speak for both of us when I say that even if there was a perfect storm of misery and both of our wives ran off drunk with Chippendale studs and took the pole dancer with them then we could cry on one another's shoulder all night in a state of total misery and confusion but ain't nobody getting THAT confused!

....we have enough to worry about don't we? We don't exactly share a lot of members with the "Never made an unwise romantic choice in our life" forum around here do we? Or am I the only one who figures it is not a risk worth taking????

;-)

DesertEyes

Ok people. Kindly share your personal experience with the original question. General statements and analysis of the population at large is just opinion. Take it to some TV talk show.

If you don't have direct personal experience in the subject being discussed then sit on your hands. Go for a walk. Call a friend. Come back tomorrow and find a thread where you _do_ have experience.

Mike
Moderator, SR

Helenlee

Life smashes us to our knees now & then. And sometimes it helps us down there gently. Beautiful story.

MissFixit

congratulations for getting your sponsor situation worked out. i know that is a big weight off your mind.

Hammer

Maybe let's start you into Alanon, first.

Six meetings and we can talk.

As far as your lumpy man observations . . . You Have To See Fight Club. The 12 Step Group for Men with Enlarged Breasts is beyond sick and funny.

Hammer

Thanks.

Let me fix it just a wee little . . .

Praise God for getting my sponsor situation worked out.

Indeed. Praise God. Thank You, God.

Big weight while I was stupid enough to trying to carry it myself.

This stuff again . . . .

We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

LET ME KNOW VIA PM IF ANYONE IN THE DALLAS/FW REGION IS INTERESTED AND I WILL PUT YOU IN CONTACT WITH THEM.


Fresh into the Inbox . . .

(does God hit Grand Slams, or what????)


===============

Happy New Year Everyone!

We want to welcome you to the Men's Al Anon Step study and thank you for your commitment to this process. Congratulation, you are taking a huge and important step in your recovery process!

The Study is Sunday's, for about 20 weeks, beginning January 12, 2014 from 5:30 – 7:00 PM.

We will be meeting [redacted] in the same location as [redacted] Al-Anon [redacted] Group Meetings

You will need the following study materials:

1) AA Big Book
2) Al-Anon Paths to Recovery
3) AA Twelve Steps/Twelve Traditions
4) Al-Anon Blueprint for Progress Manual
5) A notebook

If you know anyone else interested in participating please let me or one of the other facilitators know and I will add them to the list.

If you are now unable to participate, please let me or one of the other facilitators know. Thanks in advance.

You humble facilitators:

x, y, z.

JustAGirl1971

Thank you, Hammer. I'm still a little early in al-anon to be sponsor shopping, but am finding this thread useful for when I am ready to work the steps. So, the goal is to pick someone with long-term experience in al-anon whose shares show a commitment to growth, and you feel a connection with but not an attraction to? Does it matter if your definition of God/HP is similar?

Hammer

You are asking ME?!?!?!?

I would think that one thing this thread should make abundantly clear . . .

Getting directions from me is about as safe and sensible as getting driving lessons from Thelma and Louis . . . .





I really, really, really would recommend asking your HP for direction.

That was the only real thing I wound up doing that worked.

Walk by faith, not by sight.

jessicajoe

Ok the sponsor thing.
I'm a bit ouchie about that right now.
I've done about a dozen meetings and really feel ready to make a start "properly". I thought really hard about who I might ask in my group. There is one girl who has been in AlAnon for many years and is maybe ten years older than me. I think she is clever and astute and funny and when she leads a meeting you could hear a pin drop. I know it should stay in the room but I have to tell you she had me laughing properly with a share about taking all her RAH's shoes to the cinema with her in the trunk of her car to try and make him stay home back in her codie days.
She also has grown up daughters and I know she properly understands some of my "stuff" about my Dad.
Anyway last Friday I mustered up enough courage to approach her and ask if she would consider being my sponsor. She gave me a big hug and her telephone number and told me to call her any time BUT that she had never actually sponsored anyone and wasn't confident about supporting me with step work and such. She started out saying no and ended up saying "let me think about it and ask someone's advice and get back to you in a couple of weeks"
So on the outside I'm all "ok, that's great ,thank you" on the inside its "oh no rejection"
So now what ?

JustAGirl1971

Lol, Hammer. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of: Ok, these things did NOT work so do the opposite?

Sorry, Jessicajoe. My gut reaction would be the same (oh, no rejection.) Before, that would have been my total reaction. Now, the semi-starting-recovery-babysteps me would also see it how she meant it: She isn't sure if she's ready to sponsor someone, having never done it before. The key word being someone, not jessicajoe. Not a rejection of you at all. I hope you find a sponsor

Hammer

I know, I know. It is freakin horrid, isn't it?

AA does not seem to have to go through this crap. At an Open Newcomer's AA meeting I have been to, they end the meeting with a Show of Raised Hands among the Long-Timers to show who is available to sponsor folks. At least 4 or 5 hands go up and that is that. Closed in, signed up and done. Easier than getting a date at a brothel.

But in Alanon . . . . everything has to be so freakin Zen-ish, "you will find the right one when it is right" and all THAT crap!

Look at my stuff here. hmmm. Look at my stuff here. Had one sponsor early on, who lead me right into the Steps. I walked off. My current real sponsor -- 9 months and I did not start the Steps. This last month, I wanted a Step Sponsor right away so I could do mine and spank Mrs. Hammer and show her I was better than her. Picked a woman even though I knew that would crash. Had to go have some major humble and get turned down before I had to throw my hands up.

And then God stepped up and said -- It is over HERE, dumbass.

Ok. The problem is not Alanon. It is me. Why do I have to be so freakin' horrid?

Only reason I can think of is that if I could really do any of this myself . . . I would not need God.

PohsFriend

Lol

Oh hammer ...to a hammer everything looks like a nail my friend.
I have more than six al anon meetings and have been to multiple groups.

I think it is a super program and a lifesaver for someone who can honestly recite step 1.

I think you misunderstood me once, I did not say al anon is not a wonderful program. I think anyone living with an active alcoholic should be there daily.

But, I don't live with an active alcoholic and alcoholism is not making my life unmanageable. We all can use help - I do better seeing a counselor and dealing with my issues. Mine may be different than yours but we have a common bond - we both love a woman who can never drink again. I'm luckier - not smarter or better just luckier - mine chose to relentlessly pursue sobriety due to nothing I can claim credit for.

So may e you and I have different needs and please accept my apologies if you ever misinterpreted that. The key isn't what works for you, the key is being willing to recognize that you need some form of help and finding it. An alcoholic spouse is not my primary challenge.

I hope your wife gets well, I believe that you will get well.