silkspin

Hi all,

It's been a while since I posted. I've been moving along, going to my weekly al anon meetings, but really haven't done much else with the program.

Yesterday I found out a friend sold her house in Toronto, for a terrific price. We sold our at the start of the year when the market was bad, and settled for less than. Her situation brought up a lot of unresolved anger and resentment with our realtor. Luckily, I had an al anon meeting. When I got there, only one other member showed, and it's one that I've connected with well. So she and I just chatted, and I got a bunch of stuff off my chest, and I asked her to be my sponsor and she said yes! I realized that I've been slipping back into focussing on him and that has been a big contributor to my feelings. I feel like I was stagnating and yesterday was a leap back into positive action. She also suggested that I write out my feelings to the realtor and then burn it. Now, I've always been the type to read self-help books but never really do the exercises; somehow I always felt that was for the real sick people that needed lots of help. Some major denial. I thought that thinking about my feelings and letting them go did the same thing as writing them (I do journal though). She spoke of getting the 'blackness' out; something she'd heard through another member. So I did it last night. I typed a letter, then highlighted the whole thing in black and deleted. And it was crazy - the weight actually lifted! I felt it physically! I thought of the situation through the night and not once did I get the knot I'd felt earlier. The blackness actually did leave! I am absolutely amazed, and grateful that I finally was able to break through my own crazy to take advice. Wow!

Now my other part. I've read here many stories of 'dry drunks' (I know some of you don't like this term; sorry) where people are just nasty, bitter, resentful, and pick fights. Is there anyone out there with an 'ok' dry drunk? AH has been sober 10 months. He's gone to AA loosely, but has recently stopped. He's admitted that he doesn't think it's for him, and he is still unhappy and doesn't want to think that he won't drink the rest of his life, and that he's grown and matured these last months and feels maybe he was never an alcoholic, just a young guy with bad coping skills. The only way to really know I guess is for him to take a drink and see what happens, but he hasn't done that (yet) and I won't be suggesting it!

Thing is, he loves his job, is playing sports 3x a week (and he's incredulous at how his skill is almost at back at high school level with his volleyball - and he knows it's because he quit drinking and smoking), more involved with our daughter and our finances etc. He never was a mean guy, and although we're not intimate, we don't argue much and he's not nasty. Is this all just a pink cloud? I've heard on the boards that removing the alcohol doesn't remove the personality underneath - so because he's got a passive personality his dry drunk exhibits differently?

I'm putting the question out because I'm curious and haven't really seen any similar posts. That said, beyond this, I am firmly committed to take the focus off him and keep it on me. I am excited to finally start my steps with my sponsor to see where it will take me.

catlovermi

It seems to me that gainful employment that brings meaning to one's life, exercise and team interaction, interactions with others - especially those closest to us, and removing toxic substances from one's physiology are ALL improvements in coping skills.

It seems that, although he may not be Mr. Expressive at this time, that he has gained ground on a number of ways to cope with life and stress.

Dry drunk behavior is behavior that has made no progress in coping with life on life's terms, and remains mired in negative responses when coping is needed.

CLMI

Pelican

You sound great Silkspin!

Thanks for sharing an update on YOU. I like this part: I am firmly committed to take the focus off him and keep it on me. I am excited to finally start my steps with my sponsor to see where it will take me.

That is all you can do. One day at a time.

Your AH's recovery sounds like my AXH's. My X has been sober 7 months and has stopped going to meetings and stopped calling his sponsor. He moved away from his home group. He still does his reading and thinks he is doing fine. It's his side of the street and I let him keep it just as he likes!

I do see one possible red flag with your AH. The thinking that maybe he wasn't an alcoholic and that he might be able to handle drinking again in the future. I'm a recovering alcoholic. My X is a recovering alcoholic. We both work our recovery differently. However, neither of us believes that we were mis-labled and can try drinking again later in life. That is magical thinking and can get an addict into trouble. If your RAH drinks again, it will be his choice. It may be nothing more than a passing thought that he expressed out loud and he has no intention of experimenting with alcohol.

You can not worry about tomorrow or the next day. You can not live your life in fear of him drinking again. You can not control his future, his choices, his actions.

Please continue to keep your focus on you. You are doing great! Stay in the moment and live each day to the best of your ability!

Peace and hugs!

silkspin

Thanks for the input! clmi, you have a point. He has done some work and is gaining, and that's positive. what he does from here on in is up to him.

pelican, thank you. when he said that we were on our way to a family thanksgiving function and he felt stressed and anxious about people drinking and him not being able to. I told him he should do as he wishes, whatever that may be - i won't be telling him anything. in the end, he did not take a drink that whole night, and next day heading home told me that his anxiety dissipated, there were some that didn't drink and the atmosphere was jovial and he had a good time. I was impressed. That's not to say he won't do differently in the future, but you're right, one day at a time.

Ago

He may or may not be an alcoholic

He may or may not be a dry drunk

Dry drunks are actually pretty easy to spot, they are incredibly childish and highly antagonistic, frequently angry, combative, and personally I refer to them as "concentrates" because a little goes a long way. they go out of their way to argue with others, frankly they act like angry codependents.

There is a world of misunderstanding about what constitutes an alcoholic or even a dry drunk for that matter, someone can actually get physically and mentally addicted to alcohol and still not be an alcoholic.

How much or how often someone drinks is not always a good indication if someone is an alcoholic or not, although that seems counter-intuitive, what makes an alcoholic different from others is what happens after they put a drink in their system, they no longer have control over their alcohol intake, they no longer can say with any assurance whether they will be able to stop once they start, or how many they will have.

Heavy drinkers or hard drinkers on the other hand can be daily drinkers, they can drink 6-12 beers a day, more on the weekends and still not be an alcoholic, in many cases heavy or hard drinkers if they continue go on to become alcoholics, but not always. in many cases someone can drink like this for 20-30 years and still not be an alcoholic.

Alcoholics are mentally and bodily different then their fellows, heavy or hard drinkers drink too much. If a heavy or hard drinker is addicted to alcohol at the moment they can have some or even many of the "symptoms" of "alcoholism" because addiction and alcoholism are similar, nearly the same animal as a matter of fact, but not exactly which is why there is NA and AA.

It seems as if it's splitting hairs but addicts get addicted to all mind and mood altering substances, (a drug is a drug is a drug) while alcoholics get addicted to alcohol and can take or leave the other substances in many cases, although in both cases in order to be sober they both need to leave all substances alone for many reasons in order to have the required change to effect recovery from "alcoholism" or "addiction".

There is a difference between having an addictive personality and an alcoholic personality although you can have both.

Alcoholics have what's known in some circles as a "blown insight circuit" in that they are unable to see the impact or result of their behaviors on themselves or others, if an alcoholic quits drinking and doesn't work a program, that "blown insight circuit" is still alive and well, however since it's not addressed the alcoholic is "upset" on a deep level about not being able to drink, and takes it out on everyone around them, one of the results of the "blown insight circuit" is blaming everyone else for their problems and behaviors, such as getting a speeding ticket and blaming the Police and not taking responsibility for actually speeding, this example and behavior applies to every area of their life.

The difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic is with a heavy drinker the drinking is the problem, with an alcoholic, the drinking is the solution, that has become the problem, take away the alcohol from an alcoholic and the problems increase, take away the alcohol from a heavy drinker, and the problems go away.

There are dry drunks both inside and outside of AA, frequently even an alcoholic working a good program approaching a "growth period" will manifest the symptoms of a dry drunk for a period of time until they have their emotional breakthrough about whatever issue is coming up, frequently a family of origin issue or relationship issue.

One amusing thing about the term "dry drunk" is it's often thrown around by people suffering either from untreated alcoholism or untreated codependency or both, it's like a child with hand in the cookie jar yelling at their sibling "liar liar pants on fire", people who are diligently working their own program tend to focus on their own side of the street and not blame others, not work other peoples programs, not "take other peoples inventory" etc.

In any case, congrats on focusing on you and making the decision to work on yourself, it's all you can do

silkspin

Ago, this is a tremendous wealth of information - none of which I knew before so thank you very much for this insight. It just proves to me the complexity of it all.

According to your post, my AH is not a dry drunk. He does have some of the 'blame others' but it's pretty minor. He's more immature than childish, and isn't antagonistic or angry. Actually, a few people have said that he's changed quite a bit, more engaging and 'there'. out of the fog I guess.

He was a weekend partier through university and that continued through our marriage and daughter being born. Both of us have seen that once he has one, he's unable to control the rest of his intake. That being said, he's told me that he wanted to get drunk when he drank, and who knows if that's a true addiction talking or what he thought was his own intention was really something out of his control. He has grown these last sober months - he quit smoking of his own accord, as I said his sports level has improved and he's really loving that. He mentioned last night that he'd had a panic moment the other day - he's playing a tournament on saturday and had a thought that it was halloween and he'd double-booked over taking our daughter out trick or treating and that we don't have a costume for her. Wow. He never looked past his own nose before!

I had been in al anon for 4 months and during a particular drunken incident I said I'd had enough and that I didn't want our daughter to grow up like this. We separated for 4 months (lived in sep bedrooms - our living situation was awkward since we were selling our house and moving cities). He got sober, started AA. Although he's told me it's a struggle and that it's like losing a best friend, and he gets ansy when we're say, walking down a street with patios and people drinking, it hasn't made him some sort of crazy lunatic white knuckling it. We moved to a quiet place where we only had a few friends so he got a bit of a geographic cure, but in our trips back to visit friends he hasn't drank and avoided any big events where drinking would happen. He's said that our dynamic contributed to his desire to escape - and I agree that pre-al anon and especially just before I went, I'd kind of become the lunatic - doing all the classic codie things that people do around problem drinking. Needless to say I've changed a lot, and that has helped him too because I've taken my pressure off.

Well, it doesn't matter much anyway. I'm in no hurry to label him anymore. The information is helpful because it helps us get tools to cope with our situations. Right now I'm eager to work on my own serenity and if that helps his recovery then terrific.

Ago

Can you attend therapy and get him to couples counseling?

personally I have found those things incredibly helpful

He sounds to me like a "potential alcoholic" or one in the very very early stages, in that if he continues to drink, there is no doubt he will end up as an alcoholic, what we say is "once you are a pickle there is no going back to being a cucumber" and it sounds as if he has the pre-disposition but didn't take it very far, I have no doubt, given what you say and what he has said about his drinking should he begin drinking he will soon succumb to the disease (or illness or malady) of alcoholism

My opinions earlier are just that, my opinions, I think they are right of course, backed up by many years of experience, but not everyone will agree with me.

However, I will reiterate therapy and couples counseling was indescribably helpful for me because it involved both of us growing emotionally and learning new skills and tools together.

Still Waters

For me, it's glaringly obvious that my non-recovery oriented dry alcoholic husband is indeed a dry drunk.

This isn't working "his side of the street", it's a necessary observation so that I can do what I need to do for me and my child. I don't know if his anger and control issues are due to him being a dry drunk, or if they are just who he is...it doesn't matter. He is not working any program other than the one of his own making, in his own head - and that program tells him that he is right, and everyone else is wrong. So I guess for me, a non drinking alcoholic who is vicious towards those they claim to love, yet also claims that they don't need any "help" is a dry drunk.

It sounds from what you've said that your husband isn't mean or nasty, he just doesn't feel he needs AA, or that he must never again drink.

Jadmack25

My ABF has gone thru home withdrawal more often than I can count, and stayed off the beer for periods from 2 days to 15 months, this over 20 years of hard binge drinking. This last period of sobriety has lasted since November last year, and this is the ONLY time he has shown any change in behavior and attitude to that of the past.

Every other time he was short tempered, nitpicking, pedantic, a clean freak and such a pain in the rear that I was ready to take up the booze to numb myself. I almost wished him back on the drink, as then he could hassle his pub pals and be out of my hair.

This time he has been none of these things, has actually been a joy to be with and a real support thru some bad moments for me. His sense of humour is back, and we do have a lot of laughs now, finding something funny in the weirdest things. We have actually gone out fishing for the day a few times and BIG surprise, he's rung to say not to cook dinner, we will go to the club for it. WOW!!!!!

What brought this remarkable change? I don't know for sure, but can only think it is a combination of several events finally occurring at the same time.

In the past, his reasons for sobering up ranged from, being too broke to drink, having had a very bad dose of withdrawals, was ordered to stop drinking by a Magistrate or his Doctor or given an ultimatum by me. He once went to AA, once did 6 weeks counselling, but neither lasted, and were only done to keep me sucked in longer.

This time, I told him I was done, kept out of his way, went no contact for a while and did my caring for me. He chose to get help to detox, still sees a counsellor, and reads his AA book every day.

I don't know what other term could replace dry drunk, all I know is I do not have one in my life for the first time in years, and know I never will do again.

God bless

silkspin

Ago, he'd agreed to go to counselling but around that same time we heard of an AA/Al Anon couples group. We started going there as a start. It's once a week and we went throughout the summer as long as we had babysitting. Although he also said then that it wasn't how he envisioned friday nights, in the basement of a church with a real mish-mash of people, but we all talked and laughed and there were poignant speakers each time from each side of things. The most authentic conversations between us have been on our way home, because it set the stage for communication, and helped us talk about our own feelings by comparing to those who also went through it and their relationships survived. Anyhow, he said that although he doesn't think AA is for him, he said we could still go to that. But at the moment I'm not considering formal therapy, because I want to really focus on me right now. I need to do some work before I'm prepared to do the work as a couple. Ideally we'd both be building ourselves up to 100% and then come together as more than the sum of our parts, but regardless of him, I will be doing that.