He's ticked off, and I need courage
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He's ticked off, and I need courage
AH has been grumpy with the 2 dogs tonight. Not his baby 8 week old kitten, though. Not that they know what he's saying, but he does things like calling them a maggot. But I know what he's saying, and it bothers me (maybe that's his point). Tonight, Dakota (the lab mix) was doing something he didn't like and he swatted her on the face. Not enough to really hurt her, but I've SEEN him beat her (you probably remember that from a previous post), and I've stated on SR that if he beats her again, I'll tell him to leave immediately.
So my reaction? I said; "don't", and looked at him askance. He said; "you..." and left it hanging. He was about to say (I know, we've been through this before), something about how I don't know how to discipline children or animals. He's told me a zillion times that I don't know how to properly discipline my 16 year old son, who has gotten into trouble a couple of times. In fact, he says the entire country (U.S.) doesn't know how to discipline kids (he's from England).
So then he gets up and takes his laptop outside, clearly indicating in his immature AH fashion that he's ticked at me.
I'm posting because I'm frustrated with myself. I didn't tell him to leave, as I said I would here on SR, if he ever beat Dakota again. He didn't beat her, but he smacked her. So I'm asking myself how do I differentiate? If smacking her isn't enough, what is? If I don't have the courage to boot him out now, when will I?
I need courage SR Family. I'm fully aware that this marriage isn't going to work. The chances of him recovering are slim to none, and I certainly can't take care of myself and my sanity as long as I'm with him. I just need courage to get him out of my life.
I keep hoping he'll get an out of state job. He said he was looking for one last Friday, which is a departure from the former job search which was either local or telecommute. And I was so happy, and keep pinning my hopes on him going out of state. But should I be a wus and wait? Or will there have to be a catalyst (like hurting one of the animals) to get him out? I know, only I can answer those questions. I'm just venting.
Oh... and may I ask other families of A's... does your A ever let hygiene lapse? AH showers infrequently, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. He wears clothes over and over again until the stink. Even underclothes. He uses cologne if he has to go out rather than showering. It's icky.
First Al-Anon meeting tomorrow night! Still haven't told AH I'm going. Sigh.
So my reaction? I said; "don't", and looked at him askance. He said; "you..." and left it hanging. He was about to say (I know, we've been through this before), something about how I don't know how to discipline children or animals. He's told me a zillion times that I don't know how to properly discipline my 16 year old son, who has gotten into trouble a couple of times. In fact, he says the entire country (U.S.) doesn't know how to discipline kids (he's from England).
So then he gets up and takes his laptop outside, clearly indicating in his immature AH fashion that he's ticked at me.
I'm posting because I'm frustrated with myself. I didn't tell him to leave, as I said I would here on SR, if he ever beat Dakota again. He didn't beat her, but he smacked her. So I'm asking myself how do I differentiate? If smacking her isn't enough, what is? If I don't have the courage to boot him out now, when will I?
I need courage SR Family. I'm fully aware that this marriage isn't going to work. The chances of him recovering are slim to none, and I certainly can't take care of myself and my sanity as long as I'm with him. I just need courage to get him out of my life.
I keep hoping he'll get an out of state job. He said he was looking for one last Friday, which is a departure from the former job search which was either local or telecommute. And I was so happy, and keep pinning my hopes on him going out of state. But should I be a wus and wait? Or will there have to be a catalyst (like hurting one of the animals) to get him out? I know, only I can answer those questions. I'm just venting.
Oh... and may I ask other families of A's... does your A ever let hygiene lapse? AH showers infrequently, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. He wears clothes over and over again until the stink. Even underclothes. He uses cologne if he has to go out rather than showering. It's icky.
First Al-Anon meeting tomorrow night! Still haven't told AH I'm going. Sigh.
The New Me starting 1/11/09
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Tigger - I'm sorry. I know you know this already but all your can control is yourself. My gut tells me that "waiting for something to happen" isn't a great strategy. You will need to make a plan and then take action.
As I've said in other posts, my wife had a zero tolerance for any type of physical abuse. I did spank the dog on the butt once, but immediately realized that this wasn't appropriate. I believe that we owe all living things respect and so a "smack in the face" seems to be no different than a hit, but only you know for sure.
Set your boundaries and then be honest about whether he is violating them. Begin planning what you need to do, so that when an event happens, you can - with less emotion - just trigger your response.
Finally, you state "I'm fully aware that this marriage isn't going to work." So, why wait? What good can come from waiting (unless by waiting it allows you to prepare what you need to be successful on your own)...
As I've said in other posts, my wife had a zero tolerance for any type of physical abuse. I did spank the dog on the butt once, but immediately realized that this wasn't appropriate. I believe that we owe all living things respect and so a "smack in the face" seems to be no different than a hit, but only you know for sure.
Set your boundaries and then be honest about whether he is violating them. Begin planning what you need to do, so that when an event happens, you can - with less emotion - just trigger your response.
Finally, you state "I'm fully aware that this marriage isn't going to work." So, why wait? What good can come from waiting (unless by waiting it allows you to prepare what you need to be successful on your own)...
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It sounds like you're in that gearing up for action phase. Noticing everything that doesn't work for you and getting used to the idea that you have to make a big change. I don't know if I would wait for him to get an out of state job though... and in the long run, you might find it easier to make this decision yourself and gain empowerment from that rather than just waiting for him to leave. I wish I had.
As far as the hygiene thing goes, I didn't experience that with my ex. He was actually OCD about his morning shower routine - it could NEVER be interrupted in any way; all part of his general rigidity. But you can just add your husband's smelliness to your list of reasons to be done with this. When I get nostalgic about our relationship, I just remind myself of the smell of alcohol fumes in my bedroom every morning and the feeling of disgust and worry and stress I would feel.
As far as the hygiene thing goes, I didn't experience that with my ex. He was actually OCD about his morning shower routine - it could NEVER be interrupted in any way; all part of his general rigidity. But you can just add your husband's smelliness to your list of reasons to be done with this. When I get nostalgic about our relationship, I just remind myself of the smell of alcohol fumes in my bedroom every morning and the feeling of disgust and worry and stress I would feel.
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Thanks Newme. Setting boundries. Yes... I've read about that on other posts. Can't wait for my 1st al-anon meeting tomorrow to get started on some of these things. The "why wait" reason is because I've only in the last week and a half found SR and begun realizing what's been going on. Although the emotional abuse has been going on for a year and a half, and the alcoholism for who knows how long, I've only been with him 2 years, and only came to full realization less than 2 weeks ago. I have to start going to alanon, and prepare both emotionally and physically for his move out. I doubt it'll take long.
On another note, I just read a different post where AGO included a link about emotional abuse that I just poured over realizing that practically the entire, long article was talking about AH and me. Lot's of WOW moments there. Here's the link for anybody else. Thanks AGO if you're reading this:
Physical & Emotional Abuse Discussions at DailyStrength: Worth Reading and re-posting...
Good night all, and "God bless us, every one"
On another note, I just read a different post where AGO included a link about emotional abuse that I just poured over realizing that practically the entire, long article was talking about AH and me. Lot's of WOW moments there. Here's the link for anybody else. Thanks AGO if you're reading this:
Physical & Emotional Abuse Discussions at DailyStrength: Worth Reading and re-posting...
Good night all, and "God bless us, every one"
The New Me starting 1/11/09
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by tigger11 
The "why wait" reason is because I've only in the last week and a half found SR and begun realizing what's been going on. Although the emotional abuse has been going on for a year and a half, and the alcoholism for who knows how long, I've only been with him 2 years, and only came to full realization less than 2 weeks ago. I have to start going to alanon, and prepare both emotionally and physically for his move out. I doubt it'll take long.
I know that for some people it is not practical to make a drastic change immediately, but just by reading posts you see how people spend way to long waiting, hoping, praying, trying to change, etc. the A. Only the A can change the A. You can only change you. Begin making the plans to take action. Go to Al Anon like you are planning to. Decide ahead of time what you will do if certain lines are crossed.
I am reminded of the old saying of "you should hire slowly and fire quickly". Why do we always do the opposite?
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Can relate to this too, tigger. In that I too have only recently come to a realisation.
I have been to two Al-Anon meetings. It is helping me feel a lot stronger in myself; and I agree with those who are saying to you, "why wait?" This is looking more and more by the hour now like applying to me also in my own situation.
My alcoholic friend is the ONLY one who can change herself. Maybe I will be making excuses to myself by saying I am "bailing out" on her but at the end of the day, I am NOT. I am looking after ME. SHE has to look after her. Or not.
WE are the most important person in our own life. If another person's life is so little important to them that they are unwilling to stop killing themselves with drink, then unfortunately that is their Right - horrible as that might sound.
Whereas it is OUR right to live OUR life how WE want to.
Your post has actually been really helpful to me because I can see somebody else who is strong, and yet is wavering - just like I am at the moment!
I am looking at this now not as in that I have failed with my alcoholic friend, but that I am succeeding with MYSELF.
If you can reach that stage of valuing your life more than your AH's life (and that is harder than it sounds; otherwise none of us would ever have gotten ourselves into this situation in the first place) you can move forward in leaps and bounds.
This is what I am trying to achieve at the moment. I can see the theory...I just need to carry it out :-(
Good luck...thinking about you x
p.s. In fact, he says the entire country (U.S.) doesn't know how to discipline kids (he's from England).
...roflmao!!!! that's one of the best cop-out excuses I've heard!!!! I am from England and I can assure you, the vast majority of parents over here have absolutely NO idea how to discipline kids!!!
...
I have been to two Al-Anon meetings. It is helping me feel a lot stronger in myself; and I agree with those who are saying to you, "why wait?" This is looking more and more by the hour now like applying to me also in my own situation.
My alcoholic friend is the ONLY one who can change herself. Maybe I will be making excuses to myself by saying I am "bailing out" on her but at the end of the day, I am NOT. I am looking after ME. SHE has to look after her. Or not.
WE are the most important person in our own life. If another person's life is so little important to them that they are unwilling to stop killing themselves with drink, then unfortunately that is their Right - horrible as that might sound.
Whereas it is OUR right to live OUR life how WE want to.
Your post has actually been really helpful to me because I can see somebody else who is strong, and yet is wavering - just like I am at the moment!
I am looking at this now not as in that I have failed with my alcoholic friend, but that I am succeeding with MYSELF.
If you can reach that stage of valuing your life more than your AH's life (and that is harder than it sounds; otherwise none of us would ever have gotten ourselves into this situation in the first place) you can move forward in leaps and bounds.
This is what I am trying to achieve at the moment. I can see the theory...I just need to carry it out :-(
Good luck...thinking about you x
p.s. In fact, he says the entire country (U.S.) doesn't know how to discipline kids (he's from England).
...roflmao!!!! that's one of the best cop-out excuses I've heard!!!! I am from England and I can assure you, the vast majority of parents over here have absolutely NO idea how to discipline kids!!!
...
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Is it possible to be addicted to SR? LOL - I woke up this morning and had to check my SR post to see what wonderful suggestions my family had for me this morning. I was NOT disappointed. I'll respond to you wonderful people later, right now I have to get ready for work. But as a teaser... I've done a whole lot of thinking over night, and have made some decisions. Just need to put dates to them. Love you, my SR family!
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My late XAH went from spotless to smelly and daggy slowly, but it finally became very unpleasant and embarrassing for me to be around him, let alone out in public. I felt I had to tell him how I felt, but got a sneer and shake of his head as a reply, as if I were a nutcase.
My moving into another bedroom, had him accusing me of being involved with someone, and using this as an excuse to move.
Finally, this and other behaviors caused me to tell him to consider whether he wanted our 27 year marriage to continue, and if he did then changes needed to be made, if not then I was gone.
His reply was short, "I am happy as I am, it's you who are moaning".
My reply was even shorter, "Ok, be happy without me."
A week later I moved out into a unit on my own, and he told everyone "she has left me devastated, never said a thing and I don't know why she left".
He moved in with eldest daughter 6 months later, and she blew her stack at him over hislack of hygiene and for not cleaning up after himself.........he took notice and cleaned up his act immediately...DUH!
Get all ready to bolt from someone who not only shows no respect for you, your son or the dogs, but has little for his own appearance.
God bless
My moving into another bedroom, had him accusing me of being involved with someone, and using this as an excuse to move.
Finally, this and other behaviors caused me to tell him to consider whether he wanted our 27 year marriage to continue, and if he did then changes needed to be made, if not then I was gone.
His reply was short, "I am happy as I am, it's you who are moaning".
My reply was even shorter, "Ok, be happy without me."
A week later I moved out into a unit on my own, and he told everyone "she has left me devastated, never said a thing and I don't know why she left".
He moved in with eldest daughter 6 months later, and she blew her stack at him over hislack of hygiene and for not cleaning up after himself.........he took notice and cleaned up his act immediately...DUH!
Get all ready to bolt from someone who not only shows no respect for you, your son or the dogs, but has little for his own appearance.
God bless
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Originally Posted by tigger11
I keep hoping he'll get an out of state job. He said he was looking for one last Friday, which is a departure from the former job search which was either local or telecommute. And I was so happy, and keep pinning my hopes on him going out of state.
If someone ever put a hand on any of my animals, they'd be out the door so fast they didn't even have time to blink, but that's me.
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oh tigger, don't get me started with alcoholic hygiene!
personal hygiene seemed low on the list of priorities for my alcoholic. after two urinary tract infections. i insisted that my xABF bathe before we were intimate. this didn't go down well and certainly spoiled the mood, but at the end of the day, it was me that got sick from his lack of personal hygiene.
i would always try to get mine to change his undergarments, change his socks, etc. it was like living with a 5 year old, except he was a grown man.
and let's not forget dental hygiene. it seems to me that these types of basic, daily habits (brushing teeth, washing) get abandoned. i guess if i was drunk i would just fall into bed too...but over the long term, there are consequences to this behavior and i'm afraid that many alcoholics' teeth are literally rotting away.
not very sexy.
personal hygiene seemed low on the list of priorities for my alcoholic. after two urinary tract infections. i insisted that my xABF bathe before we were intimate. this didn't go down well and certainly spoiled the mood, but at the end of the day, it was me that got sick from his lack of personal hygiene.
i would always try to get mine to change his undergarments, change his socks, etc. it was like living with a 5 year old, except he was a grown man.
and let's not forget dental hygiene. it seems to me that these types of basic, daily habits (brushing teeth, washing) get abandoned. i guess if i was drunk i would just fall into bed too...but over the long term, there are consequences to this behavior and i'm afraid that many alcoholics' teeth are literally rotting away.
not very sexy.
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you spoke up for the dog, stopped any more happening. That's progress, and for whatever reason he didn't launch into a tirade against you, perhaps your new attitude and awareness is becoming obvious?
don't beat yourself up about not being ready to enforce a boundary right then, it doesn't matter. If you want to you can do it now or later after you've thought about it. Or rethink the boundary into something that is workable for you right now. boundaries take practice, and in my case more than a little "learning from mistakes". I have to take time to [I]think[I] about things now instead of immediately reacting. To sort out how I feel and what would be an appropriate course of action for me. H doesn't like it, he rages that I just go blank and ignore things (becuase I don't respond imediately with the answer he wants.
I doubt anyone knows how to discipline children, they don't come with a manual and each is an individual, we try to do our best with the tools that we learn (from parents, friends, books, therapy, courses), try them out on our children, learn from experience and hope for the best, in love.
The vast majority of children behave exactly as they should and grow up into lovely adults. Quite possibly despite us, but we can't all be going far wrong.
don't beat yourself up about not being ready to enforce a boundary right then, it doesn't matter. If you want to you can do it now or later after you've thought about it. Or rethink the boundary into something that is workable for you right now. boundaries take practice, and in my case more than a little "learning from mistakes". I have to take time to [I]think[I] about things now instead of immediately reacting. To sort out how I feel and what would be an appropriate course of action for me. H doesn't like it, he rages that I just go blank and ignore things (becuase I don't respond imediately with the answer he wants.
p.s. In fact, he says the entire country (U.S.) doesn't know how to discipline kids (he's from England).
...roflmao!!!! that's one of the best cop-out excuses I've heard!!!! I am from England and I can assure you, the vast majority of parents over here have absolutely NO idea how to discipline kids!!!
...roflmao!!!! that's one of the best cop-out excuses I've heard!!!! I am from England and I can assure you, the vast majority of parents over here have absolutely NO idea how to discipline kids!!!
The vast majority of children behave exactly as they should and grow up into lovely adults. Quite possibly despite us, but we can't all be going far wrong.
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Originally Posted by tigger11
Oh... and may I ask other families of A's... does your A ever let hygiene lapse? AH showers infrequently, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. He wears clothes over and over again until the stink. Even underclothes. He uses cologne if he has to go out rather than showering. It's icky.
My STBX was NEVER good with personal hygiene and I didn't realize it until we were really together. He used to make an effort in the first year or two, but after that...he really let it all go. After those first two years, he could go for WEEKs without showering. He'd say the shower made his hair dry and poofy, but honestly, how can one NOT shower for two weeks or more?? I go for 2 days and I'm itching for a shower. And how can one ask one's significant other to perform certain...er...acts of intimacy when one's crotch smells like rotten FISH?! I'm sorry. TMI. But like, EWWWWWWWW.
I use to have countless arguments with him about showering, changing his socks, clipping his toenails, or at least washing "down there" before intimacy, and he said that since I wasn't "as horny" it wasn't worth it.
And I found that the more he was "in party mode", the more he ignored his hygiene...and then he had the nerve to tell me that he could pick up any girl despite his bad hygiene.
To thine own self be true.
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Yes, as the disease progresses, their hygiene and other personal care decline till they have no hygiene anymore. Yes, they use cologne to mask it and that is worse than just plain B.O. if you ask me.
Waiting for him to beat the dog up sounds cruel to me. I would try not to wait, whatever it takes to move on with your life and protect the people, animals and things he is hurting. You could wait until it's too late because what if his beating the dog fatally injures her? IDK if my thinking this way is not living in the Present Moment.
Waiting for him to beat the dog up sounds cruel to me. I would try not to wait, whatever it takes to move on with your life and protect the people, animals and things he is hurting. You could wait until it's too late because what if his beating the dog fatally injures her? IDK if my thinking this way is not living in the Present Moment.
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So, my plan is this:
Part I, tell him to leave no later than Dec. 15th. Takes him into consideration to get a job and a car. Unless he does something nafarious, in which case, the boot comes sooner.
Part II, work on Tigger's healing.
Part III, work on divorce, but I'm not too worried about that since I don't plan on dating for... like... EVER (kidding of course, but at the moment that's how I feel), unless staying married bothers me, or he messes with finances, or thinks he can come visit, or... hummm... might be talking myself into sooner rather than later. I'll take that one step at a time.
I know I've said this like 8 times, but 1st Al-Anon meeting tonight!
Part I, tell him to leave no later than Dec. 15th. Takes him into consideration to get a job and a car. Unless he does something nafarious, in which case, the boot comes sooner.
Part II, work on Tigger's healing.
Part III, work on divorce, but I'm not too worried about that since I don't plan on dating for... like... EVER (kidding of course, but at the moment that's how I feel), unless staying married bothers me, or he messes with finances, or thinks he can come visit, or... hummm... might be talking myself into sooner rather than later. I'll take that one step at a time.
I know I've said this like 8 times, but 1st Al-Anon meeting tonight!
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First meeting went well. Only 3 other women there, all with things to share, they answered my questions, allowed me to talk. Talked about the importance of the steps and staying with all things AA/Al-Anon during the process.
Two things I found most interesting about the meeting. 1) It was held in the 1st floor of a building, the 1st floor of which was dedicated exclusively to AA/NA/Al-Anon. I thought all meetings were held in church basements. LOL - shows what I know. 2) When the Al-Anon meeting was letting out, so was an AA meeting. They (AA) were a much more lively, chatty, enthusiastic group. Hung out afterwards and talked about motorcycling and tiny bits of information while smoking.
Call Mom and her Sober-35-years-program husband (I just KNOW you guys have an acronym for that), and left her a voice mail letting her/them know I'd gone. They'll be glad to know.
That about covers it, nothing too terribly exciting. But starting the journey of recovery is good so far. Is it okay if I worry a little about the hard work ahead? Cuz I am.
OH... AH... when I told him I was going to a meeting he said something like; "Have fun. Stay all night if you want with your new friends and talk about me." You know what I heard don't you? Quack, quack, quack. Oh THEN, he reminded me that he's looking for out of state work. "I had a 2nd interview for a contract out of state, because I'm looking for a job out of state" And then something about that it would be the best thing for us right now. I said; "I know, you told me last Friday." No emotion, just a confirmation that I know. Poor guy, he's lashing out trying to hurt me because I've been to counseling and Al-Anon this week, and it's not working. I feel badly for him, but that doesn't stop me from keep on keepin' on.
Oh... and now, he's closed himself in his "office" which is a tiny bedroom in our tiny house that he has piled high, low, right and left with who knows what. That's another "message" to me. Not sure what it is, but I'm okay with it! In the past, I have slept on the floor in front of his closed "office" door when he closed himself behind it. Now, all I hear is a faint, little quaaaack.
Starting to heal is great! It's kind of like taking a tylonol after having a toothache for for 3 days and finally getting some relief, and thinking; "DAH, why didn't I take tylonol 3 days ago?"
****{HUGS}}} - Tig
Two things I found most interesting about the meeting. 1) It was held in the 1st floor of a building, the 1st floor of which was dedicated exclusively to AA/NA/Al-Anon. I thought all meetings were held in church basements. LOL - shows what I know. 2) When the Al-Anon meeting was letting out, so was an AA meeting. They (AA) were a much more lively, chatty, enthusiastic group. Hung out afterwards and talked about motorcycling and tiny bits of information while smoking.
Call Mom and her Sober-35-years-program husband (I just KNOW you guys have an acronym for that), and left her a voice mail letting her/them know I'd gone. They'll be glad to know.
That about covers it, nothing too terribly exciting. But starting the journey of recovery is good so far. Is it okay if I worry a little about the hard work ahead? Cuz I am.
OH... AH... when I told him I was going to a meeting he said something like; "Have fun. Stay all night if you want with your new friends and talk about me." You know what I heard don't you? Quack, quack, quack. Oh THEN, he reminded me that he's looking for out of state work. "I had a 2nd interview for a contract out of state, because I'm looking for a job out of state" And then something about that it would be the best thing for us right now. I said; "I know, you told me last Friday." No emotion, just a confirmation that I know. Poor guy, he's lashing out trying to hurt me because I've been to counseling and Al-Anon this week, and it's not working. I feel badly for him, but that doesn't stop me from keep on keepin' on.
Oh... and now, he's closed himself in his "office" which is a tiny bedroom in our tiny house that he has piled high, low, right and left with who knows what. That's another "message" to me. Not sure what it is, but I'm okay with it! In the past, I have slept on the floor in front of his closed "office" door when he closed himself behind it. Now, all I hear is a faint, little quaaaack.
Starting to heal is great! It's kind of like taking a tylonol after having a toothache for for 3 days and finally getting some relief, and thinking; "DAH, why didn't I take tylonol 3 days ago?"
****{HUGS}}} - Tig
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I know I chat a lot... sorry... thanks for keeping up with me.
Got an email from AH, must have written it 2 minutes after I'd told him I was going to my first Al-Anon meeting. Was titled; "Just for the record... and an audit trail"
Text said; "As I told you approximately 22 months ago .... KEEP RUNNING !!."
He HAS said this a bazillion times. Means I'm running from, and not facing life.
For the first time in my life, I am truly facing MY life. He sought to reel me back into feeling horrible about myself mode. Saw the bait, not taking it! Filed the message under "G". It ticked me off long enough to post this. Now... Poof. Gone.
Ahhh that feels good.
Got an email from AH, must have written it 2 minutes after I'd told him I was going to my first Al-Anon meeting. Was titled; "Just for the record... and an audit trail"
Text said; "As I told you approximately 22 months ago .... KEEP RUNNING !!."
He HAS said this a bazillion times. Means I'm running from, and not facing life.
For the first time in my life, I am truly facing MY life. He sought to reel me back into feeling horrible about myself mode. Saw the bait, not taking it! Filed the message under "G". It ticked me off long enough to post this. Now... Poof. Gone.
Ahhh that feels good.
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