no money for groceries; but I'm at the bar

Old 10-21-2009, 04:02 AM
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no money for groceries; but I'm at the bar

I texted AH last night to ask about what groceries he needed. He told me he "only had $100" for the week and I, like a screaming codie idiot, offered to give him some of the groceries I bought for the kids while they were with him.

He texted back that he couldn't talk right then because he'd "stopped off for a beer."

Really? A beer? I wasn't aware his vocabulary allowed the combination of those two words. I know his actions don't.

Screw that guy. Nothing changes with him. I'm not giving him any freaking groceries. The kids can stay with me.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:26 AM
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Why are you asking him about his groceries? He's a big boy, let him get them himself. After all, his is doing such a wonderful job of keeping his home tidy, paying bills etc...
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:06 AM
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No, I didn't ask him about the groceries, this is a prior commitment I made when we were budgeting out the money last Friday that he would give me from his paycheck, he told me the bills he had paid and that he would only have $100 for two weeks.

At that time, I offered to give him some groceries while the kids were at his house. Why? Because I had grocery shopped for two weeks, but since he'll have the kids for three days this week and two days next, I figured, well, he can use that grociers I bought not thinking that they won't be with me.

But now I see the error of my ways! What a dipshit! Why the hell am I doing this! Why didn't I expect this from him! This has been an issue for the duration of our marriage, he drinks away the money!

God I'm a sick one.

How do I get out of this now? I'm handing off the kids stuff at the school at 3pm. We have a meeting about one of our kids, and I'm bringing their clothes for the next three days. How do I tell him, "sorry I'm not willing to bail you out when you're STILL drinking the damn money!!""
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:51 AM
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I just wondered why you agreed to give him groceries. This joint planning of finances confuses me - once STBXAH and I separated he dealt with his bills/finances and I dealt with mine. Made my life a whole lot simpler. There again, we didn't have kids, just cats!! It still sounds as if you are managing his finances for him or at the very least trying to minimise his financial consequences.

I have no idea what to do in your situation right now though. You're angry because you feel he's taking advantage. Did you think he would stop drinking because he has so little money when you offered to give him groceries? What are your motivations for not giving him the groceries you promised? Teach him a lesson? Payback? Stop enabling? What would the consequences be for you and/or your children? You are allowed to change your mind! We codies are very good at reacting - we need to remember to take a breath, step back and analyse the situation while being self aware. I still haven't worked out how to do this automatically!!
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:56 AM
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There are a couple of things I see here. First of all, you are still relying to some extent on him financially, so any boundaries are blurred at best, no?

Secondly, it is difficult when he has the kids to know if they are getting fed properly or not. That would be a concern to me too, but I also wouldn't allow visitation with an active alcoholic.

So, essentially, he's still pulling some big strings.

What steps can you take to become more independent and cut those strings?
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:06 AM
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Thank you Freedom. Yes,
you are still relying to some extent on him financially, so any boundaries are blurred at best, no?
and we set up ground rules (that will be broken soon enough I'm sure) that when he's got the kids, if I call and he's been drinking I come and get them and they don't go back. If he doesn't answer the phone I drive over there and if he's been drinking, see above.
We set these up with the mediator.

and I know he properly feeds them, he's very good about routines and well planned meals. Oh, I guess unless he decides to drink his grocery money away because I've offered, when told he had limited funds, to give him some of mine.

Oh I"m so mad at myself for that! What was I thinking!


ANY way-
until I make more money I am reliant on him financially to some extent. In the future I won't be so stupid as to offer to give him groceries, no matter what he says.

I"m asking for some help in addressing this with him.

How do I say this to him? How do I say, "hey dumb a**, I"m not bailing you out, you have enough money to go to the bar, you should have freaking bought groceries instead!!'

Or do I have to follow through on my commitment?

I"m so frustrated!
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:11 AM
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Did you think he would stop drinking because he has so little money when you offered to give him groceries?
It didn't even occur to me! What the hell! Am I stupid or is this denial? I think being away from him I just assume he's like me. I must be the narcissist because I think he's like me and will not do amazingly selfish things.

What are your motivations for not giving him the groceries you promised? Teach him a lesson? Payback? Stop enabling?
I haven't thought that one through. I think it's because he makes me sick. He shouldn't be allowed to drink the grocery money away, that's why I left him. I guess it's three reasons: to teach him a lesson, stop enabling and use the money for more important things. Like my middle sons book order! Screw him.

What would the consequences be for you and/or your children?
Well I can tell him that I'm not giving him money for groceries if he chooses to drink his existing money away, that the kids will stay with me. That'll go over well...

You are allowed to change your mind! We codies are very good at reacting - we need to remember to take a breath, step back and analyse the situation while being self aware. I still haven't worked out how to do this automatically!!
Thanks. I will have to be on my toes from now on in every one of my interactions with him. Oh, you guys without children are sooooo lucky. You can walk away and never have to interact with the alcoholic again!
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
How do I say this to him? How do I say, "hey dumb a**, I"m not bailing you out, you have enough money to go to the bar, you should have freaking bought groceries instead!!'
"You are an adult. I have faith that you will be able to budget and buy the needed groceries."

End of statement. If he tries to engage, you have the choice not to.
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:21 AM
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I have the choice to NOT engage

Ok here's the tricky part:

If I tell him how I feel about his drinking and not buying groceries, is that "controlling?" Or being codependant.

I guess at the very least it's "engaging" and is not No Contact, which I should have in place to protect myself as it is. We'll just have an argument about it anyway, right? It's not like he's going to say, "Oh gee, your right, Transform. I better not drink when the budget it tight."

And this is an interesting choice of words
If he tries to engage, you have the choice not to
I'm going to try to remember this. I have the choice to NOT engage.

Last edited by transformyself; 10-21-2009 at 06:22 AM. Reason: add more stuff
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
I guess at the very least it's "engaging" and is not No Contact, which I should have in place to protect myself as it is. "
If you have the situation set up where you call him to "see" if he is drinking around the kids, and/or get no answer and have to go over to get them, I don't see how you can even contemplate "no contact". you are very far from no contact.

I would seriously revisit the custody arrangement ASAP.
This is putting you in the role of "policeman". It is way more significant than the grocery question.

I would also not leave my children with 1) an active alcoholic 2) one who can't budget money properly enough to feed them

That is just me. I would go back to the mediator if you have to in order to fix this
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:32 AM
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Here's how I look at it. You continuing to provide him with groceries while he is drinking is enabling.

Why should he watch his money when he knows you'll provide the groceries?

Remember, nothing changes if nothing changes.

To expect him to act like anything other than an active alcoholic isn't reasonable.
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:41 AM
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The "Mediator" was our marriage councelor that became our mediator for separation.

We have no legal stuff in place. None. If I go to friend of the court they will give me substantially less out of every paycheck than he is giving me, and there will be a one month delay in the payments which I also cannot afford to do right now as I am living literally hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck.

That may be difficult for some of you to understand but it is my reality and one i need to deal with.

Yes, we've established that I'm enabling. Now I need to sort out how to stop doing it.

Now, how do I NOT give him the groceries I promised?

I can say, you are an adult you know how to buy groceries, but I already told him (while enabling thank you very much) that I would give him some.

So is there any way to "change my mind."

Also, he said he can't afford to pay for the kids session today with the mediator who is also their councelor. I could go to see her myself today, talk to her myself, but I don't have the $40 to see her either..
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Old 10-21-2009, 06:56 AM
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You have the right to change your mind. That being said, if you don't want to approach it that way, then clearly state your boundary for the next paycheck-no extra groceries for him.

As for the mediator/counselor, again, I am concerned about just how 'healthy' visitation is for those kids when he can't make that a priority. He's doing what active alcoholics do, which is only thinking of himself.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:22 AM
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Transformed,
I think that we're in the same boat where money is concerned. I'll be dealing with STBX's inability to budget when I move out and he takes over the WAY TOO EXPENSIVE lease, and I'm really concerned that he'll be drinking his very limited budget away and not feeding my stepson properly. At the same time though, my stepson is 12, a growing boy and sometimes eats like 2 grown men, so I'm concerned that he'll throw him my way whenever there's no food around, thereby throwing MY budget off...So, I feel your pain.

In any case, I don't remember/know all the details about your ex, so I'll just ask: is his alcoholism documented? Does he have any DUIs? Has he been intoxicated in the presence of the children? I ask because if that were the case, it would be grounds to demand for supervised visitations.

With regards to changing your mind, I think you definitely can, as the thinking adult in the situation. Normally, you wouldn't give a crap if he drank away his last penny and found himself homeless (ok, well you might give a crap, but you'd do your darndest to detach and let him decide to help himself)...but since there are children involved, it is your responsibility to step in, if only for their sake.

I don't know if you're able or willing to do this, but were I in your shoes, I'd deny him visitation on the grounds that he is incapable of providing a healthy environment for your children. He HAS to feed his kids properly, and instead he's drinking the cash away and relying on Good Old You to bail him out, so he can have his cake (booze) and eat it too (kids). No go.

So the conversation could go like this:
"I know that we agreed to certain terms with regards to money and visitations with the kids, but you are ignoring the terms we set by being careless with your money thereby creating an unhealthy situation for the kids. I don't have a choice right now but to keep the kids with me until you prove that you can behave like a responsible adult".

Of course, I'd find myself a free consult with a family lawyer and verify my rights with regards to the situation first...

Ugh, what a horrible thing to deal with...*hugs*

Oh, one more thing...I work for a giant law firm, and when my relationship broke down, I quietly asked around about mediation. I was told that it would be preferable to get a mediator who is also a lawyer, so that you can benefit from their legal expertise during the mediation process...Would it be possible for you to obtain a different mediator at this point?
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:27 AM
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He's doing what active alcoholics do, which is only thinking of himself.
Well, I've overcome my initial freak-out and recognize I don't have to take action right now, which is very freeing.

So I"m taking my time and sorting out what to do about this. Creating a plan of action.

I don't want to discuss his status as a practicing, escalating alcoholic until I am ready to take action.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:33 AM
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Imtheidiot:

ew. I just can't call you that! It's awful. Lets call you Steve instead. Hows that?

Anyway, I don't know how the law will play out here compared to Canada, but will seek professional advice. Having not a penny to spare will be interesting.

How does this sound?

I know I agreed to give you groceries but you are choosing to drink your money instead of buy food for the kids, which I will not support.

My god this is STUPID!!! WHAT THE HELL?
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:00 AM
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I think the response is good. You may have to explain to him what it actually MEANS, as in "you don't get to have the kids over at your place until you show that you can provide a good environment for them." I wouldn't deny him visitation altogether...that might play against you later on. Perhaps you can offer to meet him somewhere public with the children for an hour or two. Or (and this is entirely up to you), he could come over to your place so you can supervise the visits.

As for a legal consult, I found mine by searching online for "free legal advice" in my geographical area. I called a few numbers, left messages and two different lawyers called me. I got a good idea of what I could and couldn't do. I was also directed towards legal aid should I ever require it...Is there something like that where you live? Might come in real handy...
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:38 AM
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Let's analyze this without all the emotion. You are expecting an active alcoholic to prioritize his budget so that groceries come first and booze comes after. And now you're angry because he didn't.

You have a non-enforceable agreement with an active alcoholic, which makes you financially dependent on him. And you get angry when he breaks the agreement.

So, as long as you are in a situation that requires an active alcoholic to "do the right thing" you will continue to be frustrated, disappointed, and angry.

How can you change things so that you are no longer depending on him for your life to run smoothly?

My first thought is to get the court involved. Have an enforceable order for a smaller amount seems preferable to having no ability to enforce anything. It also seems to me like visitation orders in place that do not allow consumption of alcohol within 24 hours of visitation would take you out of the "police" role and make him answer to the court.

I don't know about your state, but here in CA, the amount awarded in a divorce is directly based on the amount earned by each spouse during the marriage. So, you may actually be hurting your case by earning more money prior to divorcing him. I strongly suggest seeking legal advice before you end up making things worse for yourself and the children.

L
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:09 AM
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I don't know if I would bring up the beer thing at all. I would simply say that you've gone over your budget again and you realize that you can't make it happen.

You know, I did this dance with AH for a while too. He would be nice because he needed money (or sex, for that matter), I'd give it to him, then find out he was still talking to the "friend" he had an affair with, I'd stop giving him money, etc. Oh, and guess who finally got a big check and refused to give me any money when I needed it? Now that I've stepped back a bit, I think that I thought my helping him would make a difference in his choices. It's so hard as a codependent to see that dynamic in each and every little situation or interaction between AH and me. I constantly have to ask myself what I hope to gain. It helps that we've now cut the ties financially. If he ever comes crying to me for money, I'll say, "Sorry, it's not in the budget. Good luck and goodbye."
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:28 AM
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I vote to do whatever is going to cause you the least long term stress.

It is possible that sending groceries this time is OK and then you make a clear boundary with yourself, and with him, that it will never happen again. His budget is his to worry about. Even if you share the money you can make it clear that you each have x dollars and after that - you stay out of each others financial/budget business (both asking about/mentioning and participating in)

I have children. I wouldn't want to worry about if they eat. It is one thing to hold an adult responsible for their choices, and another to do so for the kids. If he had no food would he tell you? You could stick to the boundary of not sending food with the kids but allow him to call you and cancel a visit if he does not have safe/healthy home for them. That would be his call to make, and his to own up to. It would suck for the kids but you would not be part of it.

Just some thoughts. I'm a million miles from having my life figured out so take it for what it is worth. Also - I certainly would not want to be in the position of policing visits. That would be awful and I'd look for a way around that for sure!
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