transformyself

He says he loves me that I"m part of him like the roots of a tree, that he's in love with me, that I"m beautiful, that he'll never love anyone the way he loves me.

So I try to reason with him, try to understand why he would turn to online dating, ask him if he'll go into counceling with me to work on "our issues," if we love each other and want to be together.

He tells me he ca'nt live with me, that he loves me deeply but can't live with me and like an idiot I ask him why. He tells me he doesn't want to work, that living with someone should'nt be hard work, that he already knows how to clean his house and pay his bills and now that we don't live together, he knows those things will be done.

He launches into a string of really truly awful character assasinations--that are true! I don't think he is trying to be mean, he truly feels this way about me and it makes me feel horrible about myself, that I live in clutter, yes I am anxious and change my mind a lot, yes when I get upset about things all the important things fall to the wayside. Jesus I lived with him for a year knowing he was having an affair, getting drunk and raging at me, yes I was a mess and still am in many ways.

I ended up screaming at him then he called me back threatening to drive over because he's worried about the kids being with me and why can't you act like an adult and just get a hold of yourself.

I hate him. My self esteem is shattered again. I feel like a piece of crap and know I have to go NC again.

Do me a favor and if you're compelled to scold me or "attack the argument not the person" please don't, I know what tools are av. to me and need to figure out how to use them. I know that the pain will end when I say it will, I am looking for someone to relate to me and give me support, I know what I've done to myself and don't need more humiliation.

kv816

HUGS Transform!

I've been there right where you are. xabf and I don't really talk much anymore, every once in awhile. Last night was one of them. I called him because I have to go to his house to get something by the weekend (more property we're splitting). Anyway. That's all I called for. He had been watching Eragon and started ranting and raving about how I'm his dragon rider and he's my dragon....that one was no good without the other one, you have to have both to make it work. That I'm his rock and he needs me to hold him down. I'll never know just how much he loves me and he will love me for the rest of my life and how I need to stop acting like a child and just come home.

It used to crush me to hear his quacking because I want SOO bad to believe it and deep down I believe what he says he really thinks is true. By in a sense ignoring what he says it's hard for me, like I'm letting a friend down. But the more time that goes by I realize I'm only protecting myself.

Everyone told me that no contact was the only way. And I tried, many times, but always failed. But then someone said that I'd know when I was ready and I started focusing on just making it through the day. I have learned a lot and it makes it somewhat easier to get through each day. But then one day I woke up and realized I was ready. And I am ready. As soon as everything is divided, I'm ready. It's done. I'm moving on.

And you will be too. Hang in there. You're not as weak as you think you are.

transformyself

Thank you, I just feel so horrible about myself, how can this be quacking when what he said about me, the reasons he cna't live with me, are true? This is not me beating myself up, it's reality. I don't have systems in place as far as running a household, his house is neat as a pin right now and yes, I have the kids most of the time but most people can orgaznie a house, this has been an issue of mine my entire life, being disorganized.

I am trying to remember that he is my drug and I wanted a fix and got it and this si what it feels like, but I feel abandoned and hopeless..

tricky164

I am sorry, but you dont need support, sounds like you need to hear the truth.
get away from this man !!.

this is not love, its a form of torture, why on earth would you stay with someone who assasinates you with such hurtful remarks.
i can only go by what you have said, and this does not sound like a loving relationship that i was bought up to believe in.......

if you want self esteem, do something esteemable, ( get rid of him) then show other women (Going through the same thing) how you got out of it !!.

i really hope you sort it out as i hate to hear people suffering.

good luck with making the right decission. i wish you well.

god bless.

:ghug3

transformyself

tricky, why don't you equate supporting someone with the truth? They aren't opposing concepts and you did both in your post just fine. Thank you for the support and the truth.

I don't have an aversion to hearing the truth, I know the truth and prefer it, but I don't want to be spoken to disrespectfully or talked down to, that's all.

I just talked to my sister on the phone for a good while and she was so kind, reminded me of all the horribly abusive things he has done to me, wants me to remember why I left him.

I think what's triggered me is him saying he can't live with a, b, and c about me and that he doesn't think I will change. I"m looking for external validation from a practicing alcoholic.

"So his house is clean," she said. "So what, he's a hopeless alcoholic who has lost his house and family."

So my job today will be examining my life through my eyes, not his. But I wish I could stop crying..
`

bookwyrm

So you've always been disorganised? Guess he knew that when he met you! it sounds like this is a tender spot for you and he has decided to stomp all over it. Pure verbal and emotional abuse. You question him about his online dating, calling him out on his BS and he turns it around into a character assassination. Good grief, there is more to life than housework!! If he was that bothered about it, he knew where the cleaning things were!

Hang in there. Learn to love who you are right now - perceived imperfections and all! Don't take on the sole responsibility for the breakdown of your marriage that he is busy shovelling your way. As someone on the forum once said, he ought to put down the magnifying glass and pick up a mirror...

:ghug3

transformyself

KV
THANK YOU for this
I feel like I"m in the middle of this power struggle right now. I engaged in this conversation last because I wanted to understand why on earth this man repeatedly leaves me, finds other women, isn't happy with them and wants to come back to me and I let him. But then he's unhappy with me too.

LaTeeDa

When you live with someone for a long time, they get to know you really well. My AH knew exactly what to say to me to get the result he wanted. He knew how to say the nice things I wanted to hear to reel me back in. He knew exactly what to say to hurt me and make me feel bad about myself. In short, he knew all my buttons and just when and how to push them.

First, get your buttons out of his reach. Then you can work on figuring out what they are and why they work.

Words are his only weapons. Take yourself out of the range of them. Then watch his actions. Those will show you the truth.

P.S. You have a very wise sister.

L

transformyself

Book- I could be wrong but I don't think he was blameshifting. I think our pattern is:

he has issue with me and instead of talking about them, he acts out. Doesn't think we can work through them
then he does something stupid and when I find out, he wants to air his resentments

Problem is, the things he resents are real. Things i know I need to work on.

Do you really think he's trying to shovel the blame my way? Can alcoholics be all bad all the time? Can we be the good, pure ones that are blameless? I don't think so.

But you're right, I need to love who I am right now. That is a good place to start.

GiveLove

There are no answers here, transform, and you will simply drive yourself mad trying to find them. People want what they want, their thought processes go all over the place, they follow strange paths sometimes, and trying to figure out "why he is the way he is" guaranteed me several years of insomnia, stress, and suffering. He too worked hard to make things my fault.

I still don't know why my ex chose the things he chose. But I no longer care. And I know now that his choices weren't my doing. Your AH's choices are not your doing, either.

Your sister sounds like one smart cookie.

I hope you can find it in yourself to avoid these midnight torture sessions in the future, for your own sake. They accomplish nothing but to ruin the next day for you....they don't move you further along the road to healing AT ALL, and that (of course) is what we all have a vested interest in, here. Well, 'cause we love you.
:ghug3

honoryourself

transform-- if you really feel that the things he is saying are true, why don't you reflect on them a bit? Take a couple days and think about those parts of yourself-- are you happy with them? Are there things you can do to improve yourself so that you feel better about those areas of your life? Maybe what would give you self esteem now would be to take that energy that you have poured into fixing him and his problems and pour it into fixing things that you think you can work on for yourself. It might make you feel better about yourself, and be a step in the right direction?

transformyself

Honor-you're right and this
This is our pattern. He had an affair, then tells me why he's unhappy. I cry and beg him not to leave, that I'll change. He leaves anyway.

I then examine my life, not just what he's pointed out but also what I am unhappy with, and then I fix myself.

Then he wants to come home and I let him.

It's not that I can't honestly take an inventory of my life and change it, it's this sick sick dynamic between us.

And Give Love, thank you a thousand times for your wisdom and compassion.

catlovermi

Pssssssssssst...

If this is not an area of skill or pleasure for you, you know you can hire somebody to help you with this! There are people who specialize in working with clientele like you, to help get them organized and such.

It's ok not to be perfect! It's ok to get help in areas where you could use it! What you did yesterday doesn't have to be what you do tomorrow!

I know for me I get stuck in impossibility. I look at a global task and freeze up because I mentally can't take it all on. I have learned to train myself to LET GO of GLOBAL, IMPOSSIBLE TASKS and break them down into smaller ones that I can allow myself to whack away at, partially curing the overall problem. For me, it's a perfectionism thing, I think I have to do it all, and right now, when that's really a lie.

:day6 <--- Give yourself the gift of tools (tools as in new attitudes, new skills, new things to help you live better) - if you can't afford money, maybe you could even barter.

CLMI

bookwyrm

See, I see this as the classic dance between the codependant and the alcoholic. He's the one who transgresses, yet you are the one who ends up taking the responsibility of the broken relationship and contort yourself to make him 'happy' to come back. Then it starts all over again. I do see it as him pushing the blame your way. He is an adult. He ought to take responsibility for his own actions. He's the one who has difficulty in maintaining his promise of monogamy inherent in his marriage vows. Where is his attempts to change/make amends? If the relationship is in trouble, then a responsible adult will have a discussion. It doesn't give him the licence to have affairs. And then say, but I had to cos you <insert blame shifting tactic here>. And you buy into this! The three C's - didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it not only apply to your AH's alcoholism but his inability to keep it in his pants.

Don't let him take your inventory for you. Let him look to his own actions and his own responsibility in creating this chaos with his family. My STBXAH had me convinced I was worthless, a waste of space on this earth. It has taken me many months of counselling and work just to get to the point where I think that, actually, he just might be wrong and is going to take me years to put myself back together. I gave him the power to define me that rightly belongs with me and no one else. And in doing so elevated his opinions and words over my own. Don't do the same thing I did!!

naive

hey transform myself-

nobody is perfect. we all have faults. however, some people own them and take steps to straighten themselves out.

i really can't see comparing drinking, dishonesty and cheating to a messy house.

while you being disorganized might be reason for him to not want to live with you, it certainly isn't the same as how drinking ravenges a family.

and we all know that if he continues to drink, he probably won't even have a house to keep neat as a pin.

LaTeeDa

I also wanted to say this. As far as the answer to your question of "why." As in, why does he do these things? Simple--because he can. He knows his words have an effect on you, and he knows you will listen to them. So, he continues to spew them. And, my guess is he will as long as you continue to listen...

L

transformyself

Catlover-
thank you. I do become immobilized by huge tasks, especially when they're coupled with the overwhelming madness of my marriage. Living in that house was a nightmare for many reasons, it wasn't until I moved out that i saw the daily stress of living in the place where my husband had brought his affair partner and made her dinner and slept with her while I was gone with the kids. It haunted me every day, and even though he tried to make it better, comforted me, really tried for a little while, it wasn't enough because he kept breaking no contact with her and that drove me crazy. I couldn't heal while he was still in contact with her.

But now that I"m in my own house it is not unpacked, there is laundry on the couch. I have the same issue but not living with him. I will break down things into smaller tasks, that will help a lot. I don't have money to hire anyone right now, though.

Naive

The other thing he said are about my instability as a person, anxiety etc. He said he worries about the kids because the last time we fought I yelled at him on the phone and they heard and were upset. And that when I'm upset about things i let everything go.

Most of the time I think Screw him. He's not better than I am, but that doesn't make what I do ok. But yes, his drinking did destroy our family.

And Bookworm
this is why I posted here, in addition to looking for support, I want clarity about what the heck this is between us. And your explanation of the dance is very close, yet I can't deny I have dropped the ball, knowing how important it is to not have clutter.

Let me be clear--this isn't just clutter, this is boxes of crap stacked up in the house. It was bad. And after I fled, he had to clean it all up.

Live

hey there is an online thing for getting your house totally organized with a program that does it a little at a time...

FlyLady.net: Your personal online coach to help you gain control of your house and home

check it out!

Free108

We all have character flaws don't we? If you were the queen of organization, you could probably find something else to beat yourself up about. My xabf pointed out some truly valid issues that I have. He was really good at seeing them and putting the focus on them.
But the reason he was betraying me in a million different ways was not because I'm not a perfect person. He was betraying me (and continues to do so) because he is not capable of controlling himself. He has no choice at all because he's not even close to accepting responsibility for his own issues. And it's so much easier to look at someone else and blame them.
And now I know that by being involved with him, I'm just repeating an old old pattern. He just represents all the critical voices that I've accumulated throughout my life - my parents, teacher, other ex boyfriends - all of them had something to say about me and what was wrong with me.
I'm horribly drawn back into this dynamic and I'm trying to figure out how to disengage. It's hard. But I know that other people have been successful so I'm plugging away. If I have any great revelations, I'll share!

wanting

Transform, I am a messy person too, and it was a point of contention with AH and me. I've always been messy, and I've always felt guilty about it. (AH thought it was pretty cute when he first met me and came to my house. He sent me and DD to go play at the park and cleaned up the place for me.) And it was always worse when our problems were consuming all of my energy. And I don't like the mess, like some messy people do. I look around and feel like a failure. I make to-do lists, and feel guilty when I don't finish everything. I think the only thing that works for me is committing to one room or one task (like Mt. Laundry) per day. And if the kitchen is somewhat clean before bed, I feel pretty good about life.

I have also had an issue with blowing up at AH. Yeah, it's a problem that needs work and I have done a lot of work to stop doing that. The thing that helps me the most is recognizing situations where I'm more prone to blowing up, and removing myself from those situations. If I feel criticized or unheard, that's when I want to blow up. So yeah, no contact helps.

Anyway, for all of my faults, I am also a loving, faithful, appreciative partner, who works her ass off and takes damn good care of the kids, and I can't say the same for AH. If messiness is a dealbreaker for him, well, I can't do much about that. I think it's dumb, but it's his life. I was willing to forgive him for years of alcoholism and all that came with it, and for his affairs, which happened while he wasn't drinking. The main affair that he had was with my "friend," who is a neat-freak, and has never blown up at AH. So, apparently being a horrible friend and homewrecker are not dealbreakers for him, but messiness and anger are. That sounds pretty dumb to me, but I don't care anymore.

We went through months of "I love you, but I can't live with you" talks, and I just don't care anymore. "I love you" means different things to me than it does to him. I do not want to hear it anymore and I do not want to try "counseling." His entire way of being and acting are a dealbreaker for me now. He's shown me that he has no family values, that his needs are #1, and that when the going gets rough, he's out of there and we can all just suck it. He can try his luck on someone else, although I suspect that he'll be going around and around this way for a long time until he finds true recovery.