whereisthisgoin

I'm new here - married 17 years. Husband has always been a drinker but only in this past year has it seemed to spin out of control.

His view would be that only in the past year have I been overly focused on the amount he has been drinking.

The good news is that we have found a counselor two months ago. He has been to see her once with me and once on his own. I have been to see her two more times since our visit together.

In addition, we're both reading about alcoholism because we are new to the subject.

He's convinced (denial) that he can and will cut down on his drinking.
He swears he will never stop drinking entirely. ("I know that's what you and that lady want me to do.")

He won't tell me in amounts what cutting down is because he is sure I will change the rules and/or monitor his drinking on a daily basis.

So where do we go from here? We do have a teenage son. My husband is a highly functional alcoholic - does not miss work, does not drive drunk, and is not abusive 90% of the time. However, whenever he is home, he almost always has a light beer in his hand.

Can he cut down?? How do I deal with this? We're going to talk about it again. Please help me with what I should say so that we can have a constructive conversation.

sailorjohn

Welcome!!!

One of the common myths about alcoholism, you can't be 'highly functioning' and be alcoholic. Attempting to control intake is a stage of the disease, middle stage IIRC.

Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support here.

whereisthisgoin

Thank you for the welcome. Please help me with what to say when we talk again about his plan to cut down on the amount he is drinking.

honoryourself

Hello!

I wanted to tell you I have the same confusion. It's frustrating because you want a solution but really this seems to be a way to continue living by one's own rules.

I don't have much advice here, because my husband has done exactly as yours. We were having a huge argument over so many things and he thought I was really going to leave him when he finally admitted he drinks too much. He too is highly functioning, always with a light beer in his hand when home, frequently whiskey, sometimes wine. The sound of that beer can opening makes me cringe.

But he went to the counselor once, I went a couple times on my own. We never went together and I believe it's because a part of him never wanted to be completely honest. Since going he has said he would CONSIDER going to a counselor again but probably not her, because he thinks it's weird for both of us to be seeing the same person. I think he's trying to protect his lies. Also, the words "I'll think about it, you have to give me time." or "I'll consider it, I don't know right now" mean essentially "I'm not going to do it, but I won't tell you that right now, because then you'll argue with me. This way you can't get mad at me for saying no, and I can get angry with you for pestering me." I've learned this one over time.

He made a decision to "cut back" two weeks ago too. He also wouldn't tell me exactly what that meant, but the reason was that he wanted to preserve the right to change his definition at any time without having to answer to anyone. At first he wouldn't tell me anything, then with pressure he said maybe 1-2 drinks a night during the week and maybe 2-3 on weekends. This would have been a great improvement over the past, and he SEEMS to have followed it, except that there are always occassions to drink more-- one week night with company over we had more wine than usual, on friday he decided "he's allowed to have a few drinks on a friday", same with saturday, same with sunday... If anyone else around us is drinking he finds it as an excuse. I'm sure it will only slip slowly (or not so slowly) back to whatever he feels like whenever he feels like.

I've heard some people can successfully cut back, but what I've read here is that mostly they realize they have a problem but aren't 100% ready to admit it to others or themselves yet. They think they still have control and want to try to exercise it. I just know that I get in trouble just as much for having an opinion on his drinking as i did before, if not more. How dare i admonish someone who is ONLY drinking x drinks a night, when he used to drink 10x drinks a night. Same story, different quantities.

Good luck, keep updating with how things are going. I'd like to hear how your AH does.

Still Waters

Do you mean he doesn't abuse alcohol 90% of the time?

NewMe11109

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and only gets worse.

Personally, I was not able to moderate - I tried many times and failed many times.

But it was these failures that made me finally realize that I was powerless over alcohol.

If he has the desire to try to moderate, let him try. Just ask him to be honest with himself about whether he did indeed meet the goals he set for himself. I had to set up these intellectual mind-games with myself for a few years before I finally said to myself "wow, I keep trying to moderate but I am failing. Perhaps I should try a different approach."

Learn2Live

Glad you're here!

Alcoholism is a disease, just as cancer is a disease.

You did not cause it,
You cannot control it, and
You cannot cure it.

People with alcoholism try to cut down or taper off the number of drinks they have within certain time periods. It does not work because we cannot control alcoholism.

You are engaging in conversations and negotiating with your husband about HIS disease. I expect that you are doing so because you desire to have a healthy RELATIONSHIP with him. Yes? However, we cannot guilt or force the alcoholic, or otherwise make him do what we want them to do for the sake of the relationship, or the family, or the finances. Because we cannot guilt or force the disease to do anything.

I would have no further conversation with an alcoholic on HIS disease, but would refer him to the appropriate folks for treating his disease, and work on myself and my own life.
This is easier said than done but the sooner you start, the happier you will become.

There will be more people here on this website very soon who will tell you lots more things to help you.

I hope some of this helps.

brundle

WELCOME!!!!!:day6

I think every person has to find what's right for them. What is "OK" to you? What can you live with? What can't you live with?

I believe your in a hard spot. "How much can I drink and get away with it?" For my AH and myself it's never been good. Sure he cuts back, then he's back at it, worse then before. Or he's sneaking it. Like others have said, this really is progressive. For some it takes a long time, for others it seems quicker.

Stay with the therapy and work on you in this thing you'll be the only one you can control and the only one you can count on.

Hugs

Mitsy

Most alcoholics cannot cut down or cut back. That simply doesn't work because they are an ALCOHOLIC. Being an alcoholic means they are addicted to the booze. If they were truly able to cut down, they would not be addicted.

My ex-guy could be called a "functional alcoholic" as well. He went to work and he had no DUI's, BUT he was emotional and verbally abusive to me and to his daughter at various times. It happened enough that I could not stay in the relationship. Until the alcoholic gets help, things are not likely to change. My ex needed rehab--he likely still needs rehab. He refused to go to AA. He always had "reasons" for why he would not go. Those reasons for not going are just like him saying that he will "cut back". My guy told me that MANY times in the 2 years we were together. He could cut back for maybe a day or two. He tried staying off of it cold turkey for 10 days only to go back to the booze as soon as he got upset about something.

They can't stay sober without help and until your guy admits that, nothing is likely to change here. I detect some of the same personality traits in your hubby as my ex-boyfriend had. It's all about denial and that they are not as bad as someone else. They are unwilling to give it up completely? Then they are unwilling to admit how bad the problem is. If your hubby refuses to get help, what "LIKELY" will happen is that 10% that he's abusive will turn into 30 then 40 then 75% abuse to where you never know what kind of mood he'll be in and what kind of verbal abuse he'll dish out. Some drunks are physically abusive which to me is a total deal-breaker for a relationship--no matter how much you think you love them--that is where the buck should stop. For me it stopped after putting up with the verbal/emotional abuse.

If you are not in Al-Anon, it is a great place to go to get educated about alcoholics, alcoholism and how it affects the friends and family around them. The meetings are free & anonymous. Keep us posted.

Pelican

Welcome to the SR family!

You will find lots of information and support here. Some of our stories are in the sticky posts at the top of this forum.

One of the sticky posts under our alcoholism section contains excerpts from a great book on alcoholism. The book is "Under the Influence" and this is the link:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

Alanon meetings will help you understand how to respond to life with addiction. We're here for you too.

These are the 3 c's:
You did not cause the addiction
You can not control the addiction
You will not cure the addiction

What to say? How to monitor? The only way to handle his drinking is to remember it is "his" drinking. You will make yourself miserable trying to police his drinking. He wants to try to cut back. Let him try. Let his failure be his own. If you are involved, he will blame you for his failure. "you didn't support him enough, or you were making him uncomfortable, or he had a bad day, or he has done so well he deserved a reward, or it's just this one occassion." Let him own his drinking.

Alcoholism is progressive. It gets worse. I promise.

The only solution is total sobriety for the alcoholic. A life of sobriety and recovery work to learn new ways to cope with life on life's terms. He has to want this for himself.

savingmaggie

Hi there and Welcome!

Oh my you sound so much like me a year ago. Just tell me what to do ....give me the tools to fix HIS problem and I'll get right on it....my focus was totally on him and his drinking.
I can not begin to say thank you to this forum for all the wisdom I have received and read over the months. I now belong to Al-anon and this has been life changing for me. I also read Codependent No More and found this book to be an absolute must read for anyone in your situation. I believe it helped me to realize I can not do this alone and brought a new understanding to what Al-anon has to offer.
No one on here will tell you what you must do for you....only you have the power over your life and how you want to live it....but know this...you do not have nor will ever have the power to control another persons drinking....
I have learned to step aside and allow God (as I know Her to be) to do Her work with myself and my ABF or should I say exABF. Just so you know that some people remain in the relationship and some don't....but many have found peace in either choice because it was their own.
I hope you keep reading and sharing on here. It really does work if you open yourself up to changing what you can and that is you....because you are worth it and deserve peace and happiness.

Maggie

Zak68

I was here a few years ago. My AW of 16 years started that way. A few too many beers here and there. I began to request she cut back and the hiding of vodka started. She blamed me for making her go this route and if I would have been more understanding and less demanding of her drinking less she would have never gone that far.

*quack quack quack*

Bottom line. They drink what they want to drink. You can suggest but the more you lay down the law the more their sick minds justify their drinking. "s/he made me" "if s/he nagged less" etc, etc...

I would start by asking he respect your wishes he drinks less. If the two of you can come to an understanding on when it is acceptable and when it is too much you lay the groundwork. If he can't adhere to the rules it's his fault. If he does make sure you tell him it is appreciated or he will turn that against you.

My AW thought she could do the "moderation" thing as well. Let me tell you it led to years of drinking more and more, an affair, a DUI, a suicide attempt. It's a dark and dangerous road thinking you have control over that beast.

In every alcoholic there is a good person who needs to be saved. Only they can save them from themselves. You can't force them. You can't make them. It has to be of their own free will or it will never work.

Learn2Live

I am a cigarette smoker. I first started smoking cigarettes at age 13. I first attempted to quit smoking cigarettes at about age 17. I have been trying to quit smoking EVER SINCE. I am 42 years old. 29 years of smoking; 25 years of wanting, thinking, talking about and trying to quit. I have tried everything I have heard of to help me to quit. Cold turkey, cutting down, the patch, candy, veggie sticks, water, exercise, buddy system, classes, books, programs, hypnosis, acupuncture, Chantix, and on and on.

My regular dosage is 8 cigarettes a day and I maintained that dosage for at least 15 years. But EVERY time I quit and am successful for a good amount of time (5 months in 2007 and 4 months in 2008) and then I relapse, I relapse with a vengeance: 20 cigarettes a day. I have been at this dosage ever since my last relapse.

I cannot breathe. I smoke cigarettes and drink caffeine all day, instead of eating. My throat hurts constantly, my eyes feel like they are bulging out of my head. My clothes and my hair stink and I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke. Absolutely HATE it. I spend FIFTY DOLLARS A WEEK, that's TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH on cigarettes. When I wake up in the morning, my entire head, neck and throat feel like they are twice as big as they really are. I have no energy and no desire to even MOVE anymore. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I HAVE to smoke. My heart pounds so hard at night I can hear the blood pulsing through my skull. My heart flutters; feels like butterflies in the heart. My heart skips beats on a regular basis. My heart rate can go from 80 beats per minute to 200 beats per minute in the blink of an eye, which knocks me to the floor and chokes me and I cannot breathe.

There is NOTHING, no reason, no relationship, no cancer, no threat, no family member, no ANYTHING that will MAKE me quit. My family can prod, reason, beg, cry, blame, scream, throw things, manipulate, threaten, disown, leave me, whatever, and IT WILL DO NO GOOD.

I have a disease. Addiction. You cannot help me. This is between ME and MY HIGHER POWER. Not me and you.

trapeze

Cutting back didn't work for me. Can't answer for the world, but I believe it would be exceptional if it worked.

I'm no expert but it seems to me that only an alcoholic would want to cut back instead of quitting, right? Normal drinkers can take it or leave it. It is just a beverage unless you have a problem.

hps

I'm sorry, this is a tough situation.

He doesn't want to discuss specifics of cutting back because he needs to protect his supply. Nothing as frustrating as not being able to meet that drink quota (for me at least). He'll figure out how to sneak drinks sooner or later, if pressed.

What can you do? Theoretically, he needs to be aware he has a problem, and then it is his responsibility to fix it. Realistically, at least for me, it was very difficult to admit I was addicted, and I would look for any other plausible explanation rather than admit the truth. After admitting the truth, I'd argue the damage was manageable. After admitting the damage wasn't manageable, I'd argue I didn't know how to stop. And so it goes...

Alcoholism is a progressive disease. There is a solution. Every day he doesn't go for the solution is a day he continues to inflict his disease on you. He is responsible for managing his disease.

There isn't much to discuss, either he's drinking or he isn't. If he is drinking, he won't be able to cut back and will manage to have some good reason why he failed to do so. That was how I was, at least.

Maybe one way for you to better understand alcoholism is to go to some open AA meetings, this may also give you a reference point for people who have beaten alcohol (assuming you are able to find some fairly normal people there).

whereisthisgoin

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful posts. To answer some questions:
1. When I say he is not abusive 90% of the time - I mean he's a pretty happy, laid-back drunk. There are a few times when he's really tied one on that we've gotten into big verbal arguments (he's not physically abusive).

2. When I say this year things have spun out of control, I mean, I can't believe how much he is drinking! I knew he drank a lot - but now it's a crazy a lot and to not see him with a beer really hardly ever happens. I have to sleep with a snoring drunk every night.

I'm tired of the discussion with him and really not looking forward to revisiting the cutting back plan. Oh well. Sounds like we have stuff we are just going to go through and I have to let go..

naive

hello where is this going-

could you set up a different space in your house, where you can make a place for you to sleep. you don't have to sleep with a snoring drunk every night.

if your husband would go to an AA meeting and say he wanted to control his drinking, they would advise him to go ahead and attempt to do so.

if he doesn't think there is a problem, then it would be unlikely that he would enter true recovery from alcoholism. the first step requires one to admit they are powerless over alcohol....it doesn't sound as if he's ready to do that.

puckettcg

Cutting back? My AH tried that - and for about six months it worked. We agreed to no more than 2-3 drinks per night; usually 2. No beer or liquor. Wine only. But, eventually he started drinking and hiding it from me. He'd drink early in the AM after I left for work, sleep in the afternoon so he'd be "sober" by the time I got home. At first it started with one beer (24 ouncer) to "take the edge off". He'd have our regular glass of wine after work, and another later in the evening - all the while sipping from the vodka bottle in between. Even worked for several months before I started picking up on the fact that about 9 PM every night he seemed to be completely out of it. I started asking him about it, and he would just claim it was the 2 Tylenol PM's he took to go to sleep. But, it got worse, and there was no way the Tylenol PM explanation was holding up. I didn't realize how bad, and how much his drinking had escalated until I started finding the bottles - told him he had to quit; he did - and four days later went into full-blown, DT's and was admitted to the ICU for 3 days with what the Doctor's said was the worst case of DT's they had ever seen.

2 Days out of the hospital, he was talking about going back to our 2 glasses of wine a night. I couldn't believe it. But the one positive thing I have to note is that the first time, ever, he made the comment to me that he didn't think he would ever be able to drink again because he knew he couldn't stop once he picked up the first drink. He's even decided that he can't even drink NA beer anymore. As I've written before, my AH is still struggling with recovery and the lying is as bad as ever, so admitting that he can't just "cut back" is a minor victory to be sure, but it took a separate round of detox before he finally was able to admit that.

As an aside, my Father in Law was given the "ultimatum" by Mother in Law when he was about the same age as my AH. He quit cold turkey on the spot (it helped that he showed up to find her at the door with her bags packed out and headed out). And he didn't drink a drop for about 10 years; now he does have a glass of wine and has been controlling it for about 10 years - but his wife recently confided in me that he was starting to drink more and if he didn't stop she was leaving him.

covington

First off, I would suggest that honesty and respect and allowing him to own his drinking problem are the most important thing. Setting boundaries is important. But, honesly, there are times when boundaries are not the whole picture, if in fact, you suspect someone is hiding drinking from you please don't ignore that suspicion.

Love and light and open communication are miracles. Setting boundaries that work can produce decades of love, joy, comfort, music, laughter and everything that is good, along with some struggles here and there. I think these are the reasons we are on the planet--to provide love and hope and comfort to each other when the relationship has give and take and is healthy for both people in it.

whereisthisgoin

All the reading I've done lately makes me wonder why we all don't cut to the chase and leave them now rather than go through this agonizing process...gah.