tryintosmile

I won't go over the whole story again. Just that he sobered up 3 weeks ago for the first time, in over 10 years.

Then I find out a few days ago that he'd gone over and had sex with his ex-lover, (she's from one of the times we'd temporarily split up). He said it happened a long time ago. Then it was 3 months ago. Now it's likely a month ago - just before he'd quit drinking. I'm trying to narrow it down.

He knew this would be a deal breaker, but he did it anyway. Said he was still drunk from the night before - but went 2 days in a row to see her (during his lunch hour - from work). Said he hasn't REALLY been sober in all the years I've known him. Says he doesn't really remember exactly 'when' it was, but this guy has OCD and can tell you what he was doing a year ago today. Says he only had sex the first day he went, and the second day he went to tell her that he was back with me (for 9 months now - to be exact). But in her message to him she said that he told her that she could call his cell - anytime. Hmmm... I smell another lie there and I can't get it out of my head when I know I'm being lied to. I can't sleep. I need the truth, because it gives me the clarification to understand how much validity I should give the 'affair'. Look at me - such a loser to even care to know the gory details. If I were tough - I'd be hightailing it out of here - whether he's sober or not. Instead it makes me so obsessed, when I know I'm being lied to. Also, that he passes it off as though it was nothing, and expects that I should too.

He's apologized and says now that he's sober, he wants that 'incident' to be part of the past. I'm happy that he's sober, but not if it means that I'm expected to forget this terrible past, right along with him. He wants another chance, now that he's sober.

The trust has been shattered, once again, for the umteenth time and I find myself being the detective I hate, imagining how it played out, what he said, what he did, when it happened. How he had to lie to her about me to get what he wanted from her. How he's lying to me, to get what he wants from me (forgiveness and understanding that it was the 'disease').

I want to support his sobriety. I want to celebrate it. I've been waiting for it for so long. And now this issue to deal with. I want to let it go, but broken trust just sets me back and keeps ME sick. There's an Al-Anon meeting down the street and I'm seriously considering going. I'm not sure how it will help me with this issue right now though, but I think I really need to go.

Addendum: Sober or not - is cheating still cheating? That's my biggest issue here.

LaTeeDa

So, what is it exactly you need to know? Whether he slept with someone else once, or two days in a row? Whether it was six months ago or one month ago? What color underwear he was wearing when he went over there?

Sorry if I sound flip, but you say it's a dealbreaker, yet it seems to me you're looking to find reasons why it isn't. Leaving him for cheating on you doesn't mean you don't "support his sobriety." It means you don't want to live with someone who cheats.

L

mistycshore

People don't go through that kind of misery in a relationship unless they are getting something out of it (it is a dance). Figure out what that something is and then decide if that something is worth what it's costing you. The Alanon meeting sounds like a good idea. Good luck.

tryintosmile

I kind of wanted to entitle this 'What Would YOU Do' because I believe I'm so desensitized, and my boundaries are so screwed up, that I wish more healthy people could tell me what 'they' would do. I want to build myself back up, but instead I get so confused, I don't even know how I feel or should feel.

This is my first 'A' and I've learned that there are some differences to 'normal' abusers, so I don't have a set precedent.

LaTeeDa - back when I was young, strong and beautiful, I had some sense of self, it WAS a deal breaker - but I guess my former self is dictating what my current self can't follow through on.

Can someone tell me if it should depend on the situation, on whether cheating is a dealbreaker - and that each should be a case by case basis. Part of the destruction has come from feeling like such a loser for even having allowed it once. What should it matter after that? I've already lost the trust and self respect, anyway.

mistycshore

Shouldn't it depend on how it is effecting you?

Bernadette

Addendum: Sober or not - is cheating still cheating? That's my biggest issue here.

For me I have never accepted alcohol as an excuse for bad behavior. Do drunk people behave badly and make poor decisions? Yes. So do sober people. So I would never accept alcohol as an "excuse" for why someone did something.

Infeidelity is a big deal in most relationships -- In my own life and through friends I have heard all the "reasons" justifying it this way or that-- oh I did it because you were rejecting me, I did it because my parents rejected me when I was little, I did it because I am a sex addict, I did it because I was confused, I did it to hurt you, I did it because I was drunk. I'm sure those rationales make the cheater feel a whole lot better about themselves. I've never cared one wit why someone was unfaithful to me. I only care that they were unfaithful - and in my book they went and got laid and had some fun with another person because they wanted to, and that was the choice they made. Period.

But that's just me. If it matters to you why he did it - more than the fact that he did it - then I guess you will keep looking for those clues or pumping him for more info...

Why feel like a loser? Many many people tolerate infidelity. They stay in those relationships. Some seem fine and happy. Others, you wonder, jeez, why are they torturing themselves (when the wronged partner keeps bringing up the infidelity but yet stays on and on in the relationship), and yet - they must be getting what they want out of that relationship.

So don't feel like a loser or a winner - try to keep negative labeling out of it as it only makes you feel bad! But you might want to decide what you TRULY want out of your life and your relationships, and if you can honestly build that with this man and enjoy all that life has to offer then that's a reason to figure out how to live with this etc.

Does that make sense?

If you stay with this man and continue to be in pain and suffering, well unless what you WANT is pain and suffering then maybe consider your alternatives.

Some time spent meditating on me and who I am and what I want my life to look like usually helps me find the path I need to take in relationships.

peace-
b

tryintosmile

Yes - of course it should, but I'm wondering if we stay with an alcoholic because of their good qualities, does it mean we should accept the bad (without question?). I mean - if our goal becomes helping them to lean towards sobriety, so they will stop the madness and pain, then what happens in between 'should' be accepted, right? I mean - that's the thinking I get from people who remain in the relationships, like I have.

BUT IT HURTS LIKE HELL. And the lies and deception of it hurt even worse than the act. And the loss of trust is all that more destructive.

So - it's never affected me well, but I have this thing in me that tries to understand the humanness of all of us to make mistakes and bad choices - and that conflicts with my feelings, creating a huge problem making these decisions. With an alcoholic, it seems even more difficult.

LaTeeDa

Well, if that's your goal then I would humbly suggest that maybe your priorities are a little skewed.

You only get one shot at life. Why should it be spent trying to get someone else's life on track. Shouldn't that be his responsibility?

What do you want your life to look like? Why should his sobriety or lack of, or his fidelity or lack of, dictate the outcome of your life?

L

tryintosmile

For argument's sake - let's say It's OK.

We all know that it's NEVER OK and you wouldn't have written about my chance to have self love and respect, if it were.

So truthfully - it's NEVER OK - but if we have no self love or respect, we allow it to be OK, when we don't feel we deserve otherwise. And that's NOT OK. I know it isn't. We all know it isn't.

But as Bernadette points out - many people 'tolerate' it and have accepted it and learned to live with it. What happens there? Did they not have self love and respect or did they find it in their hearts to forgive and forget?

I can't forgive nor forget. I think I want to, because of the 'alcoholic circumstances' and believing they make a difference (and perhaps I'm wrong) but I don't know how.

LaTeeDa

Maybe it is okay with you. Maybe the good qualities outweigh the bad. Maybe infidelity just isn't that big of a deal for you.

On the other hand, maybe you feel like you don't deserve any better. That this is as good as it gets and if you let this one go, the next one will be even worse.

Those are things only YOU can sort out. You don't have to do it alone, though. I had a great therapist who helped me figure out my issues.

L

Cowgirl1265

Its already been said above, but take the "alcoholic" out of it. Is cheating the kind of behavior you want in your husband, sober OR alcoholic?

I agree that in any relationship we take the good with the bad -- up to a point. Everyone has to decide what their own boundaries are, and what they will do if their boundaries are crossed. My husband cheated on me twice; I stayed anyway even though it shattered our relationship. His part in the end of the marriage is HIS, mine is that I spent the last four years punishing him in myriad ways for breaking my trust and cheating on me. It poisoned our relationship, truly it did. Now I know. Cheating is not ok for me. I cannot be with someone who cheats THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPENS. That's my boundary. Only YOU can set YOUR boundaries. But once you decide what is and isn't ok for you, have enough love for yourself to stand by those boundaries. You are a beautiful, unique person and you deserve the best in your life and in your relationships.

Live

No one of us can tell you what you should or shouldn't do, we encourage you to be true to yourself.

Many people have and do forgive an infidelity and renegotiate a new marriage contract and rebuild their relationship. Yes, this is certainly possible. Others choose to end the relationship. There is no right or wrong, there is only what is right or wrong for you.

Since you are having so many issues with self-esteem and trust, I would like to suggest you seek counseling to help sort this out within yourself, your own mind and emotions.

It is perfectly okay, also, to tell him that you need time and are not ready to make a decision about this issue or any other.

naive

hello trying to smile-

your story is very similar to mine. mine did the exact same thing as yours and i reacted very similarly to you: getting data, feeling betrayed, wondering if it was just the alcohol?

for me, i started noticing myself behaving in ways i had never behaved: i didn't trust. it felt uncomfortable.

i feel morally validated in my violation of his privacy in order to secure the actual facts in my situation. afterall, i had been lied to (for years) and i was in a position of needing to make a decision about my future and i needed the facts in order to make the decision. i certainly was not going to get the truth from my xABF, who had proven and admitted that he was capable of lying to my face, sleeping with someone else, and then sleeping with me.

i decided that i would get to the bottom of things myself, for my own sanity:

1. i started drinking in the bars where he normally drank and a lot of information came my way. i started going to these bars without him. in the past, i didn't really go to the bars he went to, as i didn't drink much. i didn't go to the bar he worked in because he said he was busy working, which i thought was reasonable.

so, at the bar, his friends would have one too many to drink and tell me information, mainly because they felt sorry for me, knowing much more than i did how badly he was playing me.

2. when i was told he was sleeping with so and so, or had slept with so and so, then i went and drank where that woman drank.

most of the woman he slept with were heavy drinkers and i could sit in their pub and ultimately, they would get drunk and decide to say something to me, sitting there quietly available at the end of the bar. most of the woman were helpful to me, mainly because they were angry at my xABF for using them and wanted to cause trouble for him.

3. i started checking our previous months phone bills. this gave me some idea as to the length of the "two night" affair, which really was a many months affair, not two days like he said. checking the phone bill also got me the telephone number of his lovers, who i could then google and find perhaps an email address to send them a letter requesting their help in my research.

4. i started checking his mobile phone's text messages, ingoing and outgoing.

5. i started checking pockets (much success here, drunks are sloppy). i went through the house looking in places where one could hide something. much success here also.

6. i kept a daily journal of what he said, where he was and how much money he earned and spent. i discovered. so many more lies as to what he was doing and also, how much money he was burning through.

7. i checked receipts for location, time and date stamps. this was very eye opening, as to where he actually had been versus where he said he was.

8. i started doing random things, like showing up at his work unexpectedly. (not to be mean, but i started having a lot of fun with this because i had nothing to loose at this point) he worked at a bar as bouncer and had had flings with the barmaids there, and everyone he worked with knew it. so, i just went in and sat down and ordered a drink and settled in for the night, however it would unfold. it made my alcoholic very uneasy, as he had to busy himself all night guarding who i spoke to. eventually though, as the drinks poured and everyone got drunk (except me) someone would say something which conflicted with what he had told me. his women didn't seem to enjoy my presence there either, and were often seen stomping off into the night in a huff, wobbling on their drunken legs and high heels.

so, for me, i very much benefitted from changing my routine of trusting what he said and simply went out to get the real story myself, with my own two eyes and hearing it with my own two ears.

previously, i had been busy in our home (cooking dinner, cleaning, doing the laundry, paying our bills). i didn't go out much drinking with him. that all changed and i was everywhere all the time, talking to the people, waiting for his drinking buddies to get drunk and spill the beans, which they did. i drank with his best friends, his lovers, his brothers, his boss, his co workers and everyone had a bit of information to share with me, because they knew i was a nice girl being horribly lied to. they wanted to help me. they told me things in confidence (after 8 drinks or so) and i kept their confidence. i told my side of the story. i had nothing to hide, because i was innocent.

everyone else really already knew what was going on. i was the only one in the dark. finally, it all made sense! now, i understood his unexplainable behavior! i understood why he often left his cell phone at his work. i understood why the money seemed to disappear, i understood why he was so tired, i understood why sometimes he was sexual towards me and othertimes he wasn't, i understood why he couldn't meet me in the eye anymore.

broken trust was making me sick too, until i decided that i going to get some answers.

for me, that's what it took for me to move on. the facts.

Jadmack25

Quote from post: He knew this would be a deal breaker, but he did it anyway.

He did it because he didn't think doing this AGAIN, would be a dealbreaker, and it looks as if he was right............because you haven't kicked him out or left yourself.

He feels almost bullet proof, and is cheating on you and feeding you lies because he can. Nothing changes, nothing happens, and he can continue to do as he wants with impunity.

You said that you had set a boundary....no more cheating. If he cheated again it was a dealbreaker. He didn't waste time jumping that boundary because he has no regard or respect for you or your boundaries. He must believe you have no respect for your boundaries either, as you do not defend them.

For him, dealbreakers do not exist because no matter what he does, or how often he breaks that deal, nothing is ever enforced.

How much more of this pain, heartache and total disrespect for you, do you need to have in your life, before it finally gets too much to bear?

Quote from post: if our goal becomes helping them to lean towards sobriety, so they will stop the madness and pain, then what happens in between 'should' be accepted, right?

Do you mean that the ONLY goal is sobriety for someone, and until they get into recovery a partner should accept abuse, lies, cheating and all the other rubbish an A can come up with?

NO WAY. NO-ONE'S sobriety should ever be anyone elses goal. It is the alcoholic who is responsible for that goal if they want it.

Nobody should ever be the sacrificial lamb for their partner's bad behavior, least of all when sobriety is only a slim chance in future.
If he goes on like this for the next 20 years then dies of his drinking, will you leap on to his funeral fire as well?

It seems to me that your self respect and esteem is at rock bottom, as if this c**p is all you can expect or even deserve, and that is a horrible place to be.

Please get professional help for yourself NOW. You do not deserve feeling like this and being treated this way by a creep who isn't worth licking the floor you walk on.

As for what I would do.
Honey, I would have booted him where it hurts, and drop kicked him out the door.

Please go for help.

God bless