transformyself

Wow, JTT
That is EXACTLY what happened last year to me when my AH ran off with that drunk piece of crap he worked with. She drank more than he does, bought him beer, had no kids and did everything he wanted. He tired of her in less than 4 months and i was working on myself, filed for Divorce and he wanted to come home.!
And, she's 35!

Crazy...We are NOT unique...

Cowgirl1265

I know that my own feelings over my H's extramarital affair were so intense that to this day I have difficulty having balance when it comes to talking about cheating, affairs, the other woman, etc.

When J had his internet girlfriend I was so angry I wanted to physically harm her. At the time, I had decided I was going to try to hold my marriage together, and it seemed in order for me to be able to live with HIM I had to put all of my anger and hurt over the affair on HER. I can still think back to the feelings I had then and remember how that rage felt. I was so RIGHTEOUS. Roaring, screaming at the top of my lungs, wounded & righteous. I called her every name in the book. And I called him every name in the book.

I hated them both, but I tried to hate her more so that I could stay married to him.

But you are right, anvil, its not a good way to look at another human being. No matter how much they hurt us, they are still people. With feelings, with families, with innate value, even if they are abusing themselves with alchohol and drugs, even if they are making bad choices that unfortunately affect other people, wives, families.

I think the truth is that if J's affair partner hadn't volunteered, he would simply have found somebody else. She wasn't the problem. He was the problem. And not only is it a waste of time for me to hate her, it demeans me. Thank you for helping me to see that today.

TakingCharge999

Well anvilhead, I know everyone's goal here is to reach that state of compassion and indifference, and how do you reach that? feeling the resentment and the anger first... I don't think you can skip those steps... well at least I can't.

We are all in different stages... but yes I guess if we want to move forward something needs to be done to move through those judgements...

I have noticed as well women tend to hate each other, I hated my dad's wife for years and she did nothing, all the decisions that hurt me were made by my dad not by her.

And same here, why would we harbor resentments towards someone else who probably was just the first person that walked nearby? That is also a distraction from the real person that hurt us. And our own issues .

I wouldn't want these feelings for anyone else and I agree it gives me more peace to look at this with compassion, because I know more about alcoholism and can even look at what is coming, otherwise if I look at it with envy, hate and anger I am being fooled by alcoholism and the lie that there is any love or something at all worthy in there. Worthy for TC999 at least....

I can look at myself there too, hopeful, happy to live in alone as a couple, believing soooo many things blindly and it was THEN precisely... when no one else was around and away from MY friends and MY family that I was no longer The One but a hostage and sponge absorbing both his pain and mine....

Its all about alcoholism... nothing else.

Learn2Live

I agree with a lot of what is posted above, especially the stuff about compassion. When you think and believe and act otherwise, you are hurting only yourself. Your own integrity, your own self-esteem, and your own relationship with your Higher Power.

It is so true that women can be so catty (I think that's the word) and territorial :uzi2:.
It is so important to reach the point in your life where you are strong enough to understand that we women need to stick together and support one another instead of hating, blaming, and lashing out. And if we can't stick with someone in particular (like a woman who has an affair with your husband), we do not blame and shame them. THAT is addictive thinking.

I am very grateful today for the fact that my mother was NEVER this way, by any stretch of the imagination, so I had the ability to see it in others at a very early age. I also am very grateful today that when I observe that I have acted out in anger against another person, I am humble enough to say I am sorry for my behavior or my hurtful words.

Twelve years ago, when XAddictedBF "cheated" on me, I soon came to realize that he did nothing to ME, he did it to HIMSELF. But yes, JUDGING him and being angry at him was the Easiest and Fastest way to "Let Go." And for that time in my life (early 30s), it was a new tool I learned and used in order to leave him behind. Up to that point I was never before able to judge other human beings (at least not that I was aware of).

Now, twelve years later, under the same circumstances with another crack addict, I can clearly see how I have matured. I am now better able to see and accept that he (and the "other" woman) are human beings with very serious sicknesses and distorted realities. I do not have to forgive either one of them of something they did only to themselves and with total disregard for their HP. I work with my Higher Power to clean up and maintain my side of the street. This is serenity.

Anger is simply a tool. I have learned to use it as such but not to hold onto it for long. It was a constant struggle to learn this skill but it has since been invaluable to me. It's OK to use your feelings and emotions like this "in case of emergency" but seriously ladies,
Anger causes wrinkles!

bookwyrm

I don't blame STBXAH's OW and never have. I feel sorry for her and a little glad she's there to keep him out of my hair. He's the one who didn't stand by his vows after 18 years together. He's the one who can be terribly charming when he wants to be and who knows what sort of BS he was spinning? He's the one who married me, not her and he's the one who was supposed to have been my partner and best friend. The were carrying on behind my back and once he had his own place, she moved right in. I was replaced before it was over. Still didn't stop him heaping abuse on me whenever he could get the chance. I'm so glad that it is nearly all over!

TakingCharge999

Anger is simply a tool. I have learned to use it as such but not to hold onto it for long


Thank you!
you are so right...


I agree when I have hurt others (gee finally some sentences starting with I LOL) I end up realizing that was nothing compared to how I have hurt and let down myself. And that is the worse betrayal. To oneself.


Also another thing, if you ever see someone and think he or she got it together. The other day that I had the most horrible afternoon, crying etc., the next day I looked fresh and actually GOOD, I don't know why, even got compliments, WTF. No one would have ever imagined I had a really bad time the day before.

I came back from lunch with a funny coworker and we went to the doc and for some food at his apartment, a very nice place with plants, silence, etc.

We were joking we only needed a spa to revitalize ourselves during lunch hour and we could come back with towels, exfoliants and I could rent my cat to walk over people's backs to ease tension...

I laughed out really loud and F was sitting just behind us. He would never even suspect I have spent so much time dissecting everything and getting over my latest feelings... so nothing is what it seems, you just never know what is really going on.

Wow, so many preconceptions and traps from my imagination, and what do I know really?

Also as it seems from the previous 495879236347573 events where I knew about his romances, I have stopped feeling guilty for having a new person in my life. Many times I have put off plans to meet my bf outside work for fear about what others would say or hurting bf, but as I wake up early and he studies until late, having lunch with him seems a good plan to me. So I will start seeing him over here.

Heck, he also mentioned he wanted to know my workplace and I would also like to show it to him. He knows some people here. I may even bring him as a visitor. And to hell with everyone else Yes... I can move on to and remove the eggshells around work. And meet new people and find my own way and a life that has nothing to do with the misery of codieness and alcoholism.

TakingCharge999

Thanks to your ESH I believe I can and it does not seem that impossible anymore

Did I tell you I am drawing a Medusa for an armor for my Halloween costume as Athenea??

Wow, finally some other topic. I think I made it back to the good side of the river where sanity resides. ((HUGS))

TakingCharge999

Also I gave it a lot of thought and for me this is a really, really good job and what I do now is going to look really good in my resume. I even got congratulated lately. So... I stay. For ME




PS Plan for today

go grab stuff I still got on the old place
keep drawing, put good music
pat the cat
read codie no more, I finally got it back

End of day.

Live

takingcharge, this thread is proving helpful to me.

I thought about our feelings and conceptions about the other woman.
The truth is we do not know their motives or circumstances.
She may be in collusion with him in a hurtful manner to you, to show herself as a rival and provoke you. She may be ignorant of the situation. She may soon be a victim herself.
We cannot know any of this.

In my case, I cannot absolve the OW of being innocent of wrong actions.
She was guilty of wrong and hurtful decisions and behaviors. It is natural that I am or was angry with her. It hurt me.
I can be angry and hurt by both of them.
This is natural.

For compassion to be real, in this real and imperfect world, we need to distinguish between the actions and the actor. The actions may be wrong and we are angry at those quite naturally. Anger serves a purpose initially...it tells us when we have been hurt in some manner or that some wrong has been done.
We can, at the same time...or upon reflection when the emotional reaction has dimmed, have compassion for the person(s)...as wrong actions are ultimately harmful not only to us but even moreseo to them.
We harm ourselves when we ruminate upon the wrong. We need to release this as a compassionate act towards and for ourselves, as it impedes our happiness.
In a study, the advisable approach is to try to avoid the situation that disturbs our peace and or to pre-plan and prepare ourselves prior to exposure.
You have done this.
You are looking after your self-interest, happiness and betterment by remaining in the job you like and are happy with, you are also using tools to decrease your exposure to the actions that are hurtful to you..such as not engaging in conversation regarding your X.
You are staying in the present and looking at ways to maximize and enjoy the happiness that is available to you now.
What is effortful now will become easier until someday it is an effortless habit.
All of these things are foundational stones to a more peaceful, serene, happy, joyous and free path into the future.
As they say "on the other side"....when we detach and play the tape through, we use our intellect to understand our emotions and recognize the laws of cause and effect.
We gain a more accurate picture of reality and are able to act according to our best interest and values rather than react or become victims of our emotions and emotional habits. We can see that our perception or mood may be distorting the facts.
However we can do none of this well without being aware of and recognizing and acknowledging our emotions.
Forgiveness of the person does not mean forgiveness of the wrong actions.
I do not suggest holding a grudge or being vindictive, this is self-harming...but I do not and think we should not advocate glossing over wrong and hurtful actions and behaviors.

This has been food for thought for me...and I suppose it has given me an opportunity to re-work, re-think some things from my own life. These things in my past do not haunt me or have much impact today, to the best of my knowledge, but this has given me the chance to re-work it in a more informed and better manner than I had available to me at the time.
Thank you for opening this to dialogue and I hope your day is serene and happy, with many happy tomorrows to follow...as you have addressed this dilemna in your life head on, digested it, and are moving past it and on into your tomorrows.

wanting

This thread has given me food for thought as well. I have a really hard time not blaming the OW, since she was my friend and worked for me. I confided in her about AH and she used what I said to make me look bad and make herself look good. If she was a stranger, it would be a lot easier.

Learn2Live

wanting, that's disgusting what that OW did. Just goes to show how very sick these people are. Thanks for sharing.

TakingCharge999

liveweyerd thank you very much for your post.
wanting, forgiveness is a process, it helps me to put it in the hands of God/HP. One day this person will face God/HP for everything.

I think I mentioned this before but I had the honor to meet Auschwitz camp survivors personally. You could see the pain when they described their vivid memories. Yet they had forgiven. I will never forget the peace in their eyes. If they can forgive the unforgivable we can be free, too. For US.

Today I told the guys that discussed this the other day, that I was going to go off the radar again for a while. One of them told me he wholeheartedly hopes I move on from F one day. I told him I am on it... but no news at all is the only way I can heal for good.

They said they understand they remind me of my pain and reminded me I got a new life here. That F did not bring me, the company did and I am here for work reasons - and do my job well.

One is common 'friend' has seen the whole story unfold and thanks to you I was able to say goodbye to him knowing he is toxic.

Another one that supported me before, talked to F about his problem N times, knows my current bf and wants me to meet his own new gf, etc. I am not sure if I will keep his friendship. He told me he does not like people who mistreat others and he does not consider F a friend but a coworker. But he understands whatever I chose...

I do not know what will happen. I have talked or seen exs months or years after our story and it has always been great to part amicably or know we are both at peace. With a particular ex, we asked forgiveness 6 years later.

Perhaps I never share a word again with F. Perhaps we end up laughing about it all in 20 years. Perhaps we end up laughing about it all in 2 months. Perhaps he moves away. Perhaps he comes back when he needs an enabler. Perhaps he comes back when he works his 8th step. Perhaps I will marry and have kids with someone with a good heart. Perhaps he respects my request for him not to talk to me again. Perhaps drinking catches up with him in a few years. Perhaps he outlives us all. Perhaps I move somewhere else where I can be happier.

Its all in the hands of God. Always was and always will be.

I am not a filmmaker or biographer lol.... I need to follow and create my own story.

And I will forever be grateful that I did not make an alcoholic my partner for life or the father of my children and that I did not make my family worry about me being stuck with a ticking bomb. Below the surface we all know misery is guaranteed.

Now I even got good feelings about the fact F maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay be doing better.

He taught me when he was with me and he taught me way more in his absence.

For our good times and for me, I need to let go. Not flirt with letting go or try to let go... just LET GO. The whole package.

>> No, try not... do. or do not...there is no try.~ Yoda
>> Sadness is but a wall between two gardens ~ Kahlil Gibran

PS On this thread I jumped from one side to the other side of the bridge several times. I think I prefer the one I am in right now

steve11694

Would I forgive him and forget everything and be with him happily again? no
Would I sleep relaxed not knowing if I would wake up with Jekyll or Hyde? no
"Would I be ok walking on eggshells not knowing when he would drink more again? no
Have the other coworkers been with him 24x7? no
Do they know about alcoholism? no
Is it worth talking to them not knowing when they will come up with more news? no
Is it worth talking to ppl that make me feel my experience is not valid, that I imagined everything and my hurt and mourning are 'exaggeration'? no"



I think we can all relate to your feelings and heartache. Re-read the above cause YOU WROTE it. Re-read it til it sinks in. You have a good understanding already, but when we still love someone it continues to hurt, doesn't it?

If your ex abf were in real sobriety/recovery he would have made amends to you. Active alcoholics are predictable; progressive turmoil and deterioration. We all know about how they conceal, hide, act, rationalize, use enablers, but still, they progressively deteriorate.

Maybe your ex in in a new stage of concealment? Maybe he manages to binge and not arrive to work drunk for the time being. My aw had to get a job when I stopped funding her drinking. She got a job at a bar, shift work, and only accepted shifts based on her drinking schedule so she would not be hungover or drunk during work. She used to be a lovely, full of life, ambitious, intelligent, petite woman. Nowadays alcohol has taken that away and she has blown up like a balloon. friends have failed to recognize her.

I recall some dear friends of ours that new aw before alcoholism developed and saw her after. I was broken up trying to hold on, I was in a fog. Our friends asked me " look at her now and honestly ask yourself if you can live with that"

Basically it is NOT YOUR PROBLEM anymore. It is his problem and the enablers problem and likely the workplace's problem.

TakingCharge999

Thanks all.

I spent a really horrible weekend switching between sleeping, crying, reading Codie No more thinking "that is so true, wahh wahh boohoo" hating my current life and wondering how i ended up so depressed and isolated. I thought "yeah I made it. I finally let joy out of my life". I couldn't even get up from bed.

But I remembered this thread and it helped... especially the part of still writing my own story... that its not over.

So today I feel better. I needed to cry that pain.I felt like an idiot still crying for someone who hasnt given a damn since God knows when. And also for being a codie, if the other is doing badly you feel pain, if the other is happier or healthier...no.. I dont feel the joy. Its pain either way. Just pain.

And while walking I got some clarity, after so many memories washed over me, I am finally understanding if I had no dealbreakers I would still be there, but it was good I had and I acted so even if I don't know anything about what I want at least I know what I DONT WANT. And the now for him doesnt matter, what matters is that when I was there with him he treated me like dirt. So thats it really.

I feel better with my decisions and more dettached. At least today I am not obsessing anymore. And I am more sure about the patterns, I mean if its a standard person making some other choices it would be like "great you are entering the adult life". But I'm not fooled. I know even if he wants to.. he cannot cut back on drinking. He said he needed to drink less many times, never followed up and drank more. A master manipulator does not change from one day to the other. Its still denial, thinking he can "cut back"... that he is "in control"... just when he thought he could drive when he couldnt even stand by himself... just as he has drank entire bottles almost daily.. for years now.

I decided not to be fooled by alcoholism today or by others superficial opinion.

Today I trust God, my experience and the psychology behind this that tells me its just a pattern, its a disease, its progressive and its chronic. And I dont deserve to be on the ride for that. And those news "no longer arriving drunk" support ALL of what you say and what I know.

After I left he drank and drank more to the point of being still drunk at 9 am oftentimes. And he didn't realize this by himself. He was scolded by someone else. So as steve says either he is starting earlier or saving his binges now for the weekend.

I left and lived lots of pain but its subsiding. Had I stayed I would have YET ANOTHER YEAR of drinking and verbally abusing to move on from. For once I believe I have moved forward and saved time.

And all the show he has put, well I think perhaps it was also because he was hurt. I came here with no one but him and he didnt think I could grab my stuff and leave. I had the house, the common friends, work, etc etc everything enmeshed with him. By taking me with him I was a hostage but he didnt count on me going to a therapist and having SOME notion of self worth to move away even with all my pain in my heart. I also think, from his view I also "changed" quickly from the doormat that put him on a pedestal to the person that goes away.. not for someone else... someone that goes away for.. NOTHING.. for NO ONE... someone that prefers no friends and no partner than a single night next to him.

Enough now... thank you because today I feel free.

MissFixit

How is your new relationship?

TakingCharge999

Hi Miss great to see you around!

On Fri I told him I needed time alone. I told him I was having a tough time.

He was ok with it and today we are having sushi together... he has no classes today so he will go with me to see a new apartment...and will wait until I get out of work to help me clean the apartment. The good thing is that I didn't ask him, he volunteered... its a mess right now. We may watch a movie later.

Thanks for asking

MissFixit

Hey TC,

I know you are processing a lot and need to move at your own pace. As an observer of you over the last year, this guy sounds quite nice to help you out. Not that you don't deserve it, but he sounds genuinely interested in your well being. I have no idea if that is real or not, but from what you write, he sounds like a keeper. Cleaning your apartment? Does he have a brother?

TakingCharge999

LOL Miss. Thanks. I read in Codie No more, characteristics of Codies and one was "Sabotaging what could be good relationships" Man that Melody Beattie is a mind reader.

I told the guy "nevermind my weekend, if I see you I know I will make matters worse" and he was like "yeah ok I'll call you on monday".

I also told him I was on antidepressants for some bad stuff that happened and he was like "yeah ok, I needed them too once.. hope you feel better soon" ... and then he started talking about the World Cup.

I hope I can learn from him to forget drama. And I hope I don't mess this up with my sick obsessions. LOL he has a brother but he is already married I already asked him about friends for my own girlfriends here but so far nothing. I hope he is good mopping LOL.

I read about your Dating adventures Miss, I am glad you are starting to get "out there" again! and that you can recognize red flags much easier

steve11694

You already know you cannot stay with him because of alcoholism. Although you/we hope and pray our loved ones will recover, unless/until they do, we must surrender to alcohol also.

Try likening it to a car you may be emotionally attached to, but has become a clunker, a liability and you decide to sell it or even give it away.

Next imagine that someone actually took this "clunker" off your hands and it didn't cost you a cent. Well, be grateful to whoever it is that in theory agreed to marry your ex. Maybe she too is alcoholic, maybe not, whatever. You know sure as hell you can't live with him so be happy someone else can(thinks she can)

ADIOS CLUNKER

TakingCharge999

for duqld1717