tryintosmile

I'll try to make this brief and get to the point:

I moved him out 4 separate times, for short periods, (twice to the house next door - as we have a duplex) because his drinking, abusive behavior and obsession with online sex dating sites was driving me crazy. He wanted me to be involved, but I wasn't interested in that kinda crap - especially when we weren't even working out our OWN stuff. My only control was to withhold sex and I'd done it for many years, so I'm owning that now. But it was twofold - I hated drunk sex and I was also standing up for being verbally and emotionally abused, by not giving him what he needed.

Every time he moved out - he would take this dating thing to the next level, meeting some women, etc. When it was next door - I just couldn't handle it, being aware of what he was doing. He'd come over after women left or he drove them home the next day and want to talk to me (BAD situation). I wanted to be okay with letting him go. After all - I was FREE - but I wasn't really free at all, and I'd be terribly jealous, even though it was me who always encouraged him to leave, took care of the arrangements for the move, rent, etc. He's always worked though and brings in a good salary. I took care of all the transactions, and he played.

In a normal situation, this would be okay, but in our's, it was as good a cheating, because he wouldn't let me go, and I couldn't let go because all of our finances were still 'run' by me, We still owned the house, which we'd tried earlier on to sell, for 6 months, with annoyed tenants, and then gave up. My goal was always to sell and get away from him.

Each time, he'd have to move back in with me, because we couldn't afford to operate 3 dwellings (problems with tenants not paying rent, leaving unexpectedly, etc.), as well as my going on disability and bringing in less $ (but still pretty good, considering).

This last time he moved back, I encouraged him to, because I needed him here to help me get the house ready to sell and to get on board with the finances, etc. He'd had a heart attack the previous summer (and I'd found an e-mail he'd written, drunk, to the woman who was with him when he'd had it - saying it 'must have been the good sex, lol'. I was the one, though, who'd convinced him to go to the hospital the next day (and drove him). He didn't really want to sell, because he knew in the back of his drunk mind, that it would be the end for us! What a mess, but anyway getting to the point now.

I can't get past these things he's done. I've punished him by rarely having sex (except to quell him when he was being abusive). Sad thing is that he's a great lover. Due to this lack of sex, (as I mentioned in my previous post), he went and found that X-lover a couple of months ago and had a 'quickie' at lunchtime (2 days in a row - in fact). I know she's an alcoholic herself and at one point, I'd wished he'd moved in to one of the rooms she was renting, so they could have a nice drunk life together and LET ME GO!

Now - he's sober - for the first time ever! He's regretful (or at least says he is - which is a start - I suppose). Now would be the time to start forgiving, if there were ever ANY time. I don't know if I can, but I sure know that if I don't, there will always be a disconnect between us. There is SO much to forgive - not just the infidelities, which really should be minor, compared with the nightly drunken rants, name calling, etc. The top of my list for a relationship is trust, loyalty and of course being the 'one and only' - ONLY I'm not and never will be with him now. IF, he remains sober and IF he goes to AA, there could be a chance, but I'm NOT banking on it. He really wants it now, but I don't know how to TRULY forgive, let go and actually trust. I know I need to - for myself, and to break this cycle of punishment/abuse, but I feel as though if I do, it would be like saying everything he did was alright - when NONE of it ever was. That's always been my biggest roadblock in forgiveness. But I do know that if I'd been 'available' for him, he'd likely never have looked elsewhere in the first place.

Sorry - it was long after all ...

Still Waters

Just my observations based on what you've written:

You could have let him go at any time, it works both ways.

You can't say that for certain. Many here have been cheated on by their partner, while they were sexually active in the relationship.

transformyself

Your story is mine, I find that again and again here.

I couldn't forgive my cheating, verbally abusive AH because he never stopped his affair long enough for me to heal. Things would settle down for awhile, i"d forgive and try to move forward, something heinus would happen again.

I volunteered to be the recipient of all that abuse and neglect. I made myself physically ill along the way.

You can't forgive anyone who hasn't stopped offending you.There also has to be remorse and willingness to help you heal. yes, you must do your own work, but without compassion and willingness to listen to your pain and reassure you, IMHO there cannot be healing after affairs.

Actions will speak louder than any words. Time will tell. The best thing I ever did move out, stop snooping, stop listening to his stupid crap and change his name in my phone to MORE STUPID S***. Now, when that phone rings and it's his ringtone and my heart soars thinking, "maybe todays the day he gets it," then I pick it up and reality hits me.

Nope, it's just more stupid s***.

Good luck. Hope you find a way to be peaceful.

GiveLove

Tryintosmile,

So what you're saying is if you had tolerated awful, impersonal drunk sex and if you had thrown your own disgust out the window and gone out to play his online sex games with him, then everything would be alright between you?

Forgiveness is one issue. Basic incompatibility is another. In my last relationship (a man who has similar sex issues as yours) I realized finally that not only could I not forgive some of what had taken place, but I didn't care to deal with it any more, because we were never going to be on the same page. I'm simply not interested in that sort of slobbering obsession with sex.

And I forgave MYSELF, instead, for doing what I knew in my heart was right for me: moving on.

Just sharing my own experience.

Freedom1990

That's the hook for you not saying infidelity is a dealbreaker, isn't it?

What do husbands do who have partners extremely ill from cancer, undergoing chemotherapy, where sex isn't even on the list? Do they let their penises do the driving and look elsewhere? "Sorry honey, I had to get it somewhere."

Regardless of whether you withheld sex or not, does that make any of the rest of his sh*tty behaviors acceptable to you?

It took me years to get to the point of forgiveness after I left my EXAH. The damage was immense.

I really wish you could see the beautiful person you are as I can see her. You wouldn't settle for anything less than you deserve if you could.

:ghug2 :ghug2

BuffaloGal

There's a quote somewhere, in this board maybe? Or some Alanon literature? about how mistreatment must cease before forgiveness is possible.

I have found this to be true. Until I'd had a couple of years of peace, of not having to deal with my former husband's porn addiction and drinking, I was not able to truly forgive him. I hadn't healed enough.

And even though I have stopped taking his addictions personally, and come to sort of understand and sympathize with how he got to such a state in the first place, I still would not tolerate it again. I don't deserve to suffer for someone else's issues. I love him, I'll always help him if/when he needs it (he doesn't), I value him as a person just as he is. But I won't subject myself to the consequences of his choices.

If you aren't ready to forgive your husband, then don't forgive him. Forgiveness can't be forced. Anger exists for a reason-- it lets you know that you are being treated badly. It isn't a wrong or bad emotion. If there's a disconnect between you and your husband, maybe that's not a terrible thing... the disconnect protects YOU, it can provide you with a safe mental space.

Be well, be good to yourself!

tryintosmile

Thanks for your fast responses and for reading that long post!

Nothing was ever OK,

GiveLove - it wouldn't have been okay with me, but I don't think he would have been as interested in bringing the 'erotica' in, had I been more involved (could be wrong - yes). He had no boundaries, when drunk.

Freedom - Back when I had healthy boundaries (in the olden says now it seems) - before I was in over my head, and before I realized that alcoholics operate differently - YES - infidelity was a dealbreaker. With the A - it seemed easier to say - 'well - he was drunk'. Not saying it was right or that my heart could forgive - but that's how I ended up 'accepting'. Thanks - I'm trying to see if there's a beautiful person in here - and hoping there still might be

Tranformyself - I can see me in your posts too, so I'm going back to read more - if you don't mind. Your choices and decisions may be what I need to get through is. I, too, have a '200 lb. tumor' and have been very sick for a long time. Thank you so much for being here!

StillWaters - I wished I'd walked away thousands of times, but I felt so helpless by then, that without his cooperation, that I didn't believe I could. I wanted HIM to leave me! I wanted him to help take care of the business (which I realize now - he never would have done - because he had his cake and could eat it, too - plus - he wasn't going to let go of his enabler - as long as she was still there!)

transformyself

You're welcome TTS
In the midst of my chaotic struggle with trying to live with and forgive my AH, he would use my anger against me, saying, "when are you going to stop being angry with me?" the day after I caught him texting her "I miss you, you never left me."

It was insane. I keep saying this. I cheated myself.

Bernadette

hey tryintosmile--

"A watched kettle never boils" is what popped into my head reading your thread.

I don't know that you can force yourself, or will yourself to forgive someone. And if you're struggling and trying to force it this way or that way and it isn't just "happening" then I would respect that and think - hmmmmm I guess I am not ready.

More will be revealed. Take it easy and try to stay focused on what you want and maybe on how to forgive yourself. I used to get so pissed when my therapist would point out to me that I probably wouldn't be able to truly forgive my exH until I had forgiven myself. For WHAT???!!! I used to think.

Turns out I wasn't ready to forgive myself until the time was right either - and she was right - forgiveness of my exH came after acceptance of and forgiveness of myself for my 100% responsibility for 50% of my marriage's problems.

For me it took more than a couple years. That's just how long it took.....

peace-b

tryintosmile

Wow - and I thought I've been harsh NOT to have forgiven many of these things by now!

No - as of yesterday, he's promised to stop the abuse. He's sober for the first time ever, but I'm on full watch now and more ready than ever to throw the towel in if the pattern starts again.

LaTeeDa

My understanding of forgiveness is that it's something I do for myself. It's when I let go of the resentment and pain I feel and therefore lighten the load I carry. It takes time to work through all that baggage and let it go.

It seems that absolution is being confused with forgiveness. He wants to be absolved of his past wrongdoing based on a promise? Isn't that a tad unrealistic?

L

Bernadette

from LTD: It seems that absolution is being confused with forgiveness.

Very interesting........

tryintosmile

Very good point. All I know is that I would be happier if I could allow myself to forgive. I'm understanding that I have to forgive myself, because I put up with this kind of behavior and allowed my boundaries to be knocked down to the point where I felt I deserved to be subjected to this. I don't know if I can give absolution, but the only reason that I will now give him this chance is because he's sober for the first time and I want to see who I'm dealing with, and secondly because he has never asked (but always just assumed).

It's new ground now so I'm willing to see what happens, and that is why I started this thread. Because I really want to start the process of forgiveness and stop the blame game.

LaTeeDa

Excellent description. Forgiveness is a process, not an event. You don't just say to yourself "I'm going to forgive," and it happens. There is much to work through, and forgiving yourself is surely part of that process. You're also right on track about the blame game. Blaming feels good, and it's easy to do, but all it really does in the end is make us victims.

L