Apparently, I need to keep my mouth shut

Old 10-05-2009, 01:35 PM
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Apparently, I need to keep my mouth shut

or so says my husband, after receiving an email from his son's mother saying the following:

"*** told me he joins in online meetings for families of alcoholics because of your drinking. When I asked if the drinking bothered him or if it affected him in some way he said its just that you spend too much money on alcohol. What's up with this? Are there problems other then that?"

Honestly, I don't think that my stepson expressed his feelings to his mother quite clearly. My husband thinks that his son just wants him to quit drinking so we can go out to the movies or to the restaurant more often; he doesn't realize that his son has a genuine problem with all the beer he drinks.

Now, because hubby is afraid to lose custody of his son (well, he's ALWAYs been afraid of that), apparently, I need to stuff my opinions about his drinking and keep his son out of it.

I'm already wracked with guilt for introducing his son to Al-Anon, and now I'm really starting to doubt myself. That and I feel royally trapped in the marriage, being unable to discuss my feeling with anyone and being blamed for this conflict with biomom.

Anyone have wonderful and useful insight for me?
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:13 PM
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I followed your story with some interest... I am considering taking my daughter to alateen in a year or two, and I expect there to be similar negative repercussions from her dad.

There is no good answer to the problem you face; there's no solution that doesn't have fallout attached to it-- whether it's doing nothing, or getting 100% involved. Please don't feel guilty about the actions you have taken.. there is nothing wrong with anything you've done, you don't sound like you have any ulterior motives. And don't feel guilty if you do decide to clam up. You can legitimately step back under "didn't cause it, can't control it," etc. (I'm surprised that your stepson's mom thinks she is going to get a straight, honest answer out of his dad about how his drinking affects their son. I admire her directness and her assumption that she's going to get the same in return... but her trust is misplaced.)

When this boy becomes an adult, he will look back and judge how his parents, and you, handled this situation. In the long run, his opinion is much more important than what his biological parents think right now. Go easy on yourself
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by imtheidiot View Post
Now, because hubby is afraid to lose custody of his son (well, he's ALWAYs been afraid of that), apparently, I need to stuff my opinions about his drinking and keep his son out of it.
If your husband's drinking is going to cause him to lose custody of his son, it has nothing to do with what YOU have done. It has everything to do with his own behavior. Him blaming you is simply "quacking." If he is truly afraid of losing custody, he will change his behavior. Or he will not change his behavior, and lose custody. That is his problem to own and to deal with the consequences of. NOT YOURS. He may never understand this, but you can understand it. Please don't accept guilt for it, not matter how much your AH tries to lay it on you.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:26 PM
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Honestly, I don't think that my stepson expressed his feelings to his mother quite clearly. My husband thinks that his son just wants him to quit drinking so we can go out to the movies or to the restaurant more often; he doesn't realize that his son has a genuine problem with all the beer he drinks.
He isn't going to realize his son has a genuine problem with all the beer he drinks because he is in denial of his drinking problem. There is nothing you can do about that. Not only has your stepson been affected by his drinking, but so has the bio-mom. What transpires between bio-mom and son, and how he communicates his feelings is not for you to control.

Now, because hubby is afraid to lose custody of his son (well, he's ALWAYs been afraid of that), apparently, I need to stuff my opinions about his drinking and keep his son out of it.
If he loses custody of his son, that's a consequence of his drinking, NOT what you have done. That is bullying when he tells you to stuff your opinions and keep his son out of it.


I'm already wracked with guilt for introducing his son to Al-Anon, and now I'm really starting to doubt myself. That and I feel royally trapped in the marriage, being unable to discuss my feeling with anyone and being blamed for this conflict with biomom.
I don't know how you can resolve the guilt over introducing his son to Alanon. I believe everyone here was very supportive of that decision. What a gift for that boy to have somewhere to discuss his feelings, his damage from his father's alcoholism with others who understand!

As for the blame, in your mind, just toss it right back to AH. It's his guilt he's throwing at you. Don't catch it.
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:11 PM
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I"m just going to repost this a bazillion times until you folks are sick of it. It explains everything so well for me, you know when there's almost an audible click in your brain and you get it?

It's real freedome to be able to speak your truth without fear of recourse. I"m livin it right now and pray it's here to stay, this sanity.

Hugs. TFM

******* that one of the functions of alcoholism is to PROTECT ITSELF.

***** And one of the ways it does so, is to baffle and attack the family, so that they back-off and feel guilty when they see/state the truth about alcoholic behavior and call it the way it is.

**** AND UNTIL FAMILY MEMBERS GET ENTIRELY RID OF THAT TO-THE-MARROW IRRATIONAL GUILT ABOUT SEEING THE TRUTH ABOUT EMOTIONAL ABUSE AND CRAZYMAKING -- AND NOT MINIMIZE IT -- AND NOT MINIMIZE IT
----- AND NOT MINIMIZE IT
------AND NOT MINIMIZE IT
------AND NOT MINIMIZE IT
------- WE ARE SITTING DUCKS FOR ALCOHOLISM..... AND SITTING DUCKS TO WIND UP WITH YET ANOTHER ALCOHOLIC OR ABUSIVE PERSON, IF WE ARE 'OUT THERE' DATING AGAIN. (And if we cannot get entirely rid of it --- then we must at least vigilantly remind ourselves of this particular kind of denial that we carry, so that we can effectively deal with it when it comes up. Because it will.)

I think that this is probably the most awful symptom of family alcoholism that there is. But we can get healed.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:27 PM
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Ah, the denial, because if we don't talk about something it does not exist, and if we turn our backs from the giant pink neon elephant in the room... hey... look, its not there!!

Hope your son keeps talking about this in the forums, he will be able to avoid much hurt in the future and realize his feelings are totally natural and valid...

I can imagine his relief in sharing with others just like I experience here in SR, messages I need to read and re read and hear daily.

Nope, you're not alone,
Yes, it is predictable, sobered up, locked up or dead
No, you cannot cure it or change it
The best thing is to stay out of the way
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TakingCharge999 View Post
Ah, the denial, because if we don't talk about something it does not exist, and if we turn our backs from the giant pink neon elephant in the room... hey... look, its not there!!
Well-said. =)

--Outvoid--
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:00 AM
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Perhaps if your AH had kept HIS MOUTH SHUT, instead of guzzling his beer as he has, he would not have any worries about custody issues.

Your stepson going to Alanon is NOT the reason for AH perhaps losing custody, It is the drinking done by dad that is the cause and concern for you all.

Lashing out and blaming anyone and anything for what is their own resposibility, is the usual response by an A, who is desperate to keep their actions out of the firing line. It is sheer fear at losing their ability to keep on as they are, that fuels their manic words and behavior.

I hope your stepson continues with Alanon and reading in the forums, to give him the tools and strength to cope with his father's problem drinking.
Frankly, I admire you for supporting him and showing him the way.

God bless
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:11 AM
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I love the image you gave us of when your step son discovered the forum. He was uncomfortable in meetings, he was relieved and had found some answers finally. Don't discount the powerful gift you've given him, just because the denial of others is threatened.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:14 AM
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I don't for one minute thing you did the wrong thing by introducing your step-son to Alanon. He obviously has issues with his father's drinking and I don't think you put those issues in his head. If you are a person he trusts to share these feelings with you can't shut down now and let him fend for himself. I would encourage him to tell his mother the truth about how he feels and what is really going on in the home. I am in a similar situation right now but it's with my 7 year old daughter and she is nothing but vocal about how her dad's drinking makes her uncomfortable. My husband is being forced to look at his actions and how they affect his children. Unfortunately for me he is not taking the road he needs to in order to avoid losing his family and you may be faced with that at some point. Then you will need to decide what YOU are going to do for YOU.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:03 AM
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I am in a similar situation right now but it's with my 7 year old daughter and she is nothing but vocal about how her dad's drinking makes her uncomfortable. My husband is being forced to look at his actions and how they affect his children. Unfortunately for me he is not taking the road he needs to in order to avoid losing his family and you may be faced with that at some point. Then you will need to decide what YOU are going to do for YOU.
Yep, I'm right there with ya. When my kids (ages 8 and 11) started vocalizing how their dads drinking makes them feel-and it was met with typical denial and blameshifting-that was it. I"m glad your daughter can and does articulate how she feels.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:27 AM
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Update: I need to empty my brain this morning because my stomach is all aflutter with this drama.

Last night, while I was putting baby to sleep, I heard tidbits of a hushed conversation my husband was having with his son, telling him to go look up the definition of alcoholism online; he believes that if his son looks up the disease, he'll realize that his father isn't suffering from it. I don't know what else was discussed, but I got the distinct feeling that he was trying to convince his son that because he holds down a good job, is well respected at work, doesn't come home drunk, that he’s not an alcoholic. Also, what most likely transpired was a warning of sorts: if you don’t keep this stuff to yourself, your mother will take you from me and you’ll be forced to go live in Toronto. God, what a heavy burden to place on his young shoulders.

Later on, my husband quietly told me that *I* was the one causing this drama, because I had revealed to his son that he’d had a panic attack as a result of not drinking. Again, I’m wondering if I should have said anything, but hindsight is 20/20 and I can’t change anything at this point. In any case, I was told that I have “no idea why the panic attack really happened” and that I need to keep MY negative opinions about his drinking to myself. This hushed conversation later continued in the bathroom while my stepson was doing his chores…again, hubby told me that he’s a good person, has held down a job, is excellent at it, etc etc (which I fully recognize and am very proud of him for!)…Furthermore, I was told that “everyone needs a vice”, which is supposed to be a justification for the addiction. Finally, I got drilled about WHO told his son WHAT, probably because he’s trying to blame me for “exposing” his son to false information. In the end, after being told that his son is concerned for his health and that HE was the one asking for information about Al-Anon, hubby told me that if he ever found out that I’m feeding his son information again, it would be “over between us”.

So be it. I didn’t panic, I just blinked and said “ok”. At this point, it might be better this way.

When 9:00 p.m. rolled around, my husband summarily announced that it was bedtime. I didn’t follow him into the bedroom because I thought he wouldn’t want to see me….I finally did go sit in bed with him but the conversation started up AGAIN. Ugh.

“I’ve done all these things for you (moved to Montreal, got a full-time job, left my friends behind, etc etc), and what have you done for me?”
“A lot of the same things.”
“Well, ok, if I quit drinking…no, if I REDUCE my drinking, what will you do for me?”
(Bargaining much??!)
“No that’s not how it works. You can quit drinking for yourself, if you want to, but don’t do it for me.”
“Ooooh, I see, that’s not it works” (Insert extreme sarcasm here) “And what will you do if I do that?”
“I’m going to work on myself, find what makes me happy and go do it.”
Silence
“Fine, forget I even offered.”
“Ok, I will.”

In retrospect, I’m rather proud of how I handled things. I didn’t get flustered. I didn’t get dragged into a fight, and I didn’t let myself get blamed for things that don’t belong to me. It was almost surreal because I started to see patterns of behaviour emerge and repeat themselves right in front of my eyes.

I went to bed later on and we both avoided each other.

Things are awkward now. He just gave me a peck on the lips this morning before leaving. He doesn’t email me at work. He doesn’t try to have sex with me. Our contact is at a bare minimum.

I’m wondering what I do now…this void between us is very uncomfortable and I’m almost itching to call him, or email him to apologize and “make things better” between us, just to kill the discomfort. It’s taking everything I’ve got NOT to do that, because I get the feeling that perhaps this discomfort is necessary. Perhaps it’ll help him realize how precarious things really are.

As for his son, I think I’ll just step back and wait for him to come to me. I’ll try to keep the door open for him and just work on my own journey. Maybe he’ll want to embark on his own, and maybe it’ll take a while before he does. Funny though, last night, while we prepared dinner together, he asked if I wanted to log onto the Al-Anon chat room before his father got home…
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by imtheidiot View Post
“I’ve done all these things for you (moved to Montreal, got a full-time job, left my friends behind, etc etc), and what have you done for me?”
“A lot of the same things.”
“Well, ok, if I quit drinking…no, if I REDUCE my drinking, what will you do for me?”
(Bargaining much??!)
“No that’s not how it works. You can quit drinking for yourself, if you want to, but don’t do it for me.”
“Ooooh, I see, that’s not it works” (Insert extreme sarcasm here) “And what will you do if I do that?”
“I’m going to work on myself, find what makes me happy and go do it.”
Silence
“Fine, forget I even offered.”
“Ok, I will.”
Sounds to me like you handled that wonderfully well!


Originally Posted by imtheidiot View Post
Things are awkward now. He just gave me a peck on the lips this morning before leaving. He doesn’t email me at work. He doesn’t try to have sex with me. Our contact is at a bare minimum.

I’m wondering what I do now…this void between us is very uncomfortable and I’m almost itching to call him, or email him to apologize and “make things better” between us, just to kill the discomfort. It’s taking everything I’ve got NOT to do that, because I get the feeling that perhaps this discomfort is necessary. Perhaps it’ll help him realize how precarious things really are.
Of course it is uncomfortable. If he is giving you the silent treatment or avoiding you, you may recognize this as "quacking." Its designed to hook you back in, reach for his attention, start fixing him again. You've set a boundary and he does not like it, you can expect that he will resist.

The key point, though, of taking care of yourself and giving your stepson information to take care of himself, is that these things are designed to help YOU. They are not to try and make your husband get better, that is not in your power or control. Keep making these great steps, and remind yourself that this is about YOU finding peace and serenity in your life. Your husband's peace and serenity are his own job.

I think you are making great progress! Have you gone to an in-person AlAnon meeting yet?
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:23 AM
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Not yet...I'm afraid to tell him what I'm doing (and I can't find a sitter for my daughter right now).

Perhaps, when I get the guts to just tell him where I'm going, I'll feel better. Right now, I'm still feeling a bit...cowardly!
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:34 AM
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In the end, after being told that his son is concerned for his health and that HE was the one asking for information about Al-Anon, hubby told me that if he ever found out that I’m feeding his son information again, it would be “over between us”

My AH did this exact thing after I told our kids that he still loves them but is addicted to alchohol and they aren't responsible. My goodness did he freak out, yelling and screaming at me. Pacing around the house, telling me he was divorcing me. What a nightmare. You're handling it so much better than I did. Seeing this in print, knowing that this is a typical reaction really makes me sick. I allowed myself to be bullied by him at that time.

Thank God I found this place.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:36 AM
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I think you did fantastic handling the entire conversation with him last night!

The only way to get past the discomfort is to walk through it. The discomfort will not kill you, guaranteed. That is what kept me locked in the same unhealthy patterns for years. I couldn't stand the discomfort and wasn't willing to move forward.

:ghug2 :ghug2
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
Seeing this in print, knowing that this is a typical reaction really makes me sick. I allowed myself to be bullied by him at that time.
Oh yeah. So typical. I was accused of "turning the children against him," "filling their heads with lies," and "undermining him as a parent." Addiction cannot tolerate honesty.

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Old 10-06-2009, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
Addiction cannot tolerate honesty.
Thank you for reminding me of this. I needed to read the words today.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:41 PM
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I bet the son is feeling pretty confused.
My heart goes out to him.
Many times in my youth when I dared to ask a question or tried to get information outside the family about what the hell was wrong with us I was met with lies and BS and watering down of traumatic issues, and denial and it can't be that bad etc. My dad also never lost a job or got a DUI (although he was brought home by the police who pulled him over plenty of times).

When I dared to say out loud to my mother "Dad's an alcoholic" she slapped me right across the face! End of discussion.

I hope your stepson can continue to find a rational person who agrees they are seeing the same things that he is and that YES there is something wrong with this picture!

This is the kind of sh*t that pisses me off to no end about alcoholism -- the shame and secrecy and lying. Like now you will have to share information with him "in secret."

I'm curious to read other's thoughts on that...

peace & good luck imtheidiot and you're NOT an idiot!
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