what is wrong with me?? (vent/confused)

Old 09-25-2009, 06:13 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by queenie88 View Post
hmmm that's an interesting analogy. i never thought of it in terms of a power struggle or control, i just want what I THINK should go on in a normal, healthy relationship, ya know? is that too much to expect or ask for??
Yes, actually it is. You want a normal, healthy relationship with someone who is neither normal or healthy. Kind of like trying to shove the proverbial square peg into the round hole..............

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Old 09-25-2009, 06:19 PM
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Remember that when involved and dealing with an addicted person there is only 1 rule.

Rule number 1. There are no rules.

Not only does this "mulberry bush game" have no rules, the goalposts keep moving on us.

The only way to survive and stay reasonably sane is:


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Old 09-25-2009, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
At the fourth of July, my AH told me that I psychically caused a rock to explode in a camp fire, burning our children, to show him that he was wrong for letting them get so close to it.

yes, you read that correctly.

We had been fighting. I wanted them further from the fireworks and fire. He, of course, called me controlling. A rock that was in the fire exploded (this can happen with porous rocks that hold water, it's just like hand granade) sending burning coals everywhere and the kids were hit by some of it.

After, he told me this. I caused it to happen. With my mind powers.

True, I am very psychic and "know" things intuitively, but this is an example of how insane his thinking is and how insane I was for engaging. He's a mental and emotional contortionist.

Freedom, my dear, is when I detach. Today i choose to do that. Getting there is a long road, but once you try it, you're gonna love it.

I hope you go out and do something you love today, starting with exercise. I know, you folks are probably getting tired of hearing me say that...
Wow, that is quite possibly the funniest thing I've heard all day! LOL!

Queenie, I think the key here is that anything you say to him will be misconstrued and misunderstood. Don't engage!
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:11 PM
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UGH. i should have known from the beginning how this was going to turn out.

No, you had no way to recognize an alcoholic if you did not know an alcoholic before. Or even if you did. Perhaps you ignored red flags, but that is what you can work on, knowing which are red flags FOR QUEENIE, what are dealbreakers FOR QUEENIE... that is your stuff to handle... but it was never your job to prevent his issues, addictions or progression...

Perhaps you don't miss him as a boyfriend but as a friend? A therapist mentioned this and she was right, what I missed were some great conversations, watching MTV JAMS, movies, stuff friends do. When we both ended up crying each one for our own reasons that hurt... when we went to concerts and we laughed about stupid things. When we went to a restaurant, rain caught us and his hair was all messy and fluffy, and people outside stared at him, LOL.

Those things are what I miss but I know I have shared similar moments with other friends, and I can actually be grateful for those moments and I am ok knowing those times are past. Knowing I miss him as a friend only, makes me feel less insane....

When you are told you are X or Y, you are just a mirror queenie.. he feels angry, selfish and imature. I am concluding as they do not have anything to hang on to feel better about themselves they try to drag others down to their level. Anything others tell you is just the opinion they got about themselves.....

You are what you define yourself to be... and one day this will sink in in your soul and you will realize you are free, free from him, free from alcoholism and lies, free from who you were yesterday... that you got a lot of qualities that make you special, then your thoughts will be aligned with your feelings and with your acts, and you will have found richness and happiness.

There are many great things in store for you queenie!!
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:36 PM
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Queenie - I have been exactly where you are. Everyone here is 100% correct. You will be on the fast track to the looney bin if you don't find a way to detach. There is no way to win. There is no perspective he will concede. There are no words that will have any affect whatsoever. He is manipulating you to get his needs met, plain and simple. Your needs, expectations, goals, or desires are absolutely meaningless to him except in the way he can turn them against you or make them work for him. Any energy on your part used to engage him or even to TRY to understand him is a big freakin' waste. Use your precious energy wisely and live for yourself today and every day.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:36 PM
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thanks for this suggestion! i'm really trying to be conscious about using "I" statements, but i wonder if any of it matters now? is it too past the point to bring these things up?
I think it is.

Have you been to an al-anon meeting yet?
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:47 PM
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I was mowing my lawn, doing some yardwork and house work, my brain just kinda bumping along, thinking about this thread among other things and it suddenly occurred to me, someone had posted awhile back about codependency and alcoholism being different branches of the same sickness, I can't remember what it was exactly, but how closely they were related and all of the sudden it came to me one thing they absolutely share in common.

The people who suffer from these conditions (and I am including myself) can solve everybody's problems but their own.

I can walk into any bar in the world and ask how to achieve World Peace, or end World Hunger and those fools won't hesitate, they won't blink an eye, they will have detailed plans how to solve these problems and achieve World Peace and feed everyone within moments and that's nothing compared to the detailed analysis they'd give about their favorite sporting team and how the Quarterback should have played, or how the Pitcher should have done things differently.

If I were to ask these same people how to fix their home lives, how to stop drinking, how to make their wives and children happy, how to fit in better at work etc


bar stool scratches across the floor

menacing glares as the bartender takes my drink away, wipes the bar and says, "I think it's time you were moving on"


I could go to The hairdressers next door to the same bar, assuming their husbands were drinking next door, listen for a bit, then ask, "Hey ladies, what could your husbands do to be better husbands? if they drink, how can they stop drinking? How many meetings would they need to attend? How can they be better communicators? How can they be more loving? What do they need to do in order to make you happy and fulfilled?

In other words, what does your husband need to do in order to fix himself and make YOU happy?

I think I would get enough information to write a book.

If I said, that's great, now what do you think YOU could do in order to fix yourself bearing in mind in this exercise you can't mention someone else at all, you can't blame someone else for how you feel, your situation, your happiness, nor mention them making any sort of change as your solution.

What can YOU do to change YOURSELF?

What can you do to empower YOURSELF?

Now remember you aren't allowed to mention anyone but yourselves, take ownership of your own feelings, take responsibility for your own happiness.

What can YOU do to have a happier marriage?

What can YOU do to make YOURSELF happy?

I think I would get asked to leave again.

Alcoholics are addicted to alcohol, and can't stop drinking, the more they struggle and fight, the more they lose. The only way for an alcoholic to "win" is by surrendering, giving up and walking away.

Codependents are addicted to alcoholics/addicts and controlling their environment and the people in it, the attempts at control are because the situation is and has been so out of control (many times in their childhood) that the codie needs to regain control of their environment to feel safe. That's what a Psychiatrist told me one time anyway.

For me to recover from codependency I had to relinquish my efforts at control, stop trying to control people around me, I also had to remove the sicker people from my environment, but ultimately it was letting go of controlling other people that brings me serenity. Stop trying to make my mother/sister/GF be healthy. Stop trying to have healthy relationships with unhealthy people. Find healthy people to have relationships with then try to learn how to do it myself. Actually the other way around, start getting healthy myself and strangely enough healthier people start appearing.

Stop going to hardware stores for bread
Stop going to dry wells
Stop trying to fit square pegs in round holes

Stop trying to MAKE or FORCE those around me to MEET MY NEEDS

If someone can't meet my needs without me having to explain it to them, me explaining it to them is not going to make it better. Me explaining it to them 800 times is REALLY not going to make it better. As a matter of fact, after 632 times I begin to suspect it's not them, it may be me that's a bit wacked at that point and needs help.

Anyway, I just thought that's what alcoholism and codependency share in common, they know how to fix everyone but themselves, and have a solution for everyone but themselves. I know I am certainly guilty of that more often then I'd care to admit.

Last edited by Ago; 09-25-2009 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:45 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Ago, what a wonderful way of explaining the same results from both groups, and yes I reckon you are spot on.

I know that I could spot what my ABF needed to be a "perfect" person, but missed where I was flawed in my thoughts, beliefs and actions.
I had to go thru the trial and error system, lots of pain and finally learned here that I was trying to control the uncontrolable.

Had I been in the hairdressers back then, had you popped in with your questions I probably would have heaved a hair dryer at you, then joined in the chorus of women yelling "leave" at you.

Thank you for this little gem.

God bless
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by queenie88 View Post
thank you for this, silkspin. i often feel like he's just living in a delusion, and all the people around him just feed into it. sometimes i wonder how many people can think that way? and then i feel crazy because i feel like i'm the only one who thinks the way i do...that he's a selfish alcoholic that really doesn't care about anybody.
It's actually not a bad way to think about it. It is a delusion. My AH didn't know how to deal with a lot of stuff. His drinking accelerated through the years as the coping mechanism. The drinking brought him into a delusional state where, when sober, he thought lowly of himself, now he was on top of the world. Smart, witty, confident. That was his delusion because when drinking, he was the exact opposite of all those things. But it made him feel good. And kept bad feelings and guilt over slowly destroying our family at bay. So he kept doing it. When I started to challenge it, I threatened to take that away. So he would use all his tactics to get me to back off. It wasn't until I actually did back off, meaning I disengaged from the dance, that he actually stopped drinking. But when I hit the point that I did finally disengage, I did it for me, for my sanity, and not his. So although it's tremendous that he's been sober 10 months, it wouldn't have mattered. I did it for me.
I had done thing like you. I snooped, yelled, guilted. I destroyed a booklet he'd had when I forced him to try a alcohol-reduction program. The thing lay untouched for months, and when I took it and ripped it up to make a point, he turned on me, lamenting that I essentially destroyed his 'progress' and made me feel like an unsupportive wife when he was 'trying'. What I've learned in al anon is that I did some crazy and awful things, not like my usual self, because his drinking affected me so much. I fell into a reactive state. Yes, it was unhealthy but it was the best I could do at the time with what I knew. There is no manual for love and relationships and we all make mistakes. I don't excuse what I've done, but I forgive myself and am now moving on. I've apologized to him. I'm working to not make the same mistakes. I heard something terrific on this board - put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror. Take this to heart. It's amazing how much more fruitful it will be because of one key thing - you can change yourself. So all the work you put into you will pay off. Right now you're putting in all the hard work into him, and you're getting pretty horrible results - you're not able to get through to him and you're left feeling invalidated and hurt and angry. So that's wasted energy. Channel that back to you and I guarantee you will start to feel differently.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:39 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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If someone can't meet my needs without me having to explain it to them, me explaining it to them is not going to make it better. Me explaining it to them 800 times is REALLY not going to make it better. As a matter of fact, after 632 times I begin to suspect it's not them, it may be me that's a bit wacked at that point and needs help.
Oh, I love this part, Ago!!

I wish I could take all this knowledge I've amassed in the last 10 years and go back to the age of 18 and start over. LOL I'd probably be single and childless!! LOL
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