My codependency issues with family of origin
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 197
My codependency issues with family of origin
Hi everyone,
I normally post on the ACOA part of the forum but have read some really good insights and advice here on codependency issues. I wonder if you could cast your eyes over this post and tell me what you think.
This post has links to my recent one on grief on the ACOA forum..
I'd like to share a little more of my own recent history. Over the past five years, my son who is now 17, developed increasingly severe mental health problems – depression, anxiety, panic attacks, phobias, suicidal thoughts and obsessive-compulsive disorder+++. It became a pattern of me “putting him back together” just to send him back to school and wait for the next inevitable crash. Like a good Mum (codie / control freak), I exhausted myself visiting doctors, educational psychologists, school staff trying to “fix” this “problem” and “make” my son “fit” the education system and the “expectation” that “I” had for him.
Four months ago, my son could no longer cope and I and the school accepted we were doing more harm than good trying to keep him in school. The educational psychologist diagnosed High Functioning Autism / Aspberger's Syndrome with resultant mental health problems due to social anxiety. My son left school and was awarded Disability Living Allowance (UK social security benefit) and I left full-time employment to become his Carer (UK social security benefit).
A traumatic enough experience on it's own but our own little family unit - me, dh and dd were working through the changes, making adjustments and allowances as we went along and adapting to our new family reality.
It was only when I brought my addict family of origin into the mix that the sh*t really hit the fan and the roller coaster took off. My codependent mother would not accept the fact that there was Autism and a “disability” in the family. She went into denial and blame mode – the doctors didn't know what they were talking about and it was all my fault for letting him spend so much time on his computer. She then went into awfulisation mode – what would happen to ds when we died, he would be left on his own, rocking in an institution. She triangulated, discussed this with my alcoholic brother behind my back (AF died 21 years ago). My son's diagnosis really threatened them both. At this point, they both upped their alcoholic and codie games – almost as if they were trying to establish THEMSELVES as the most important things that I had to take care of NOT my son. This may have been coincidence but I'm not sure – the frequency and intensity of their behaviour went through the roof.
My brother went on several major alcoholic benders, one of which ended up with him being assaulted, having his jaw broken and ending up in hospital for major surgery. My mother took to her sick bed with hysterics – she had already buried my father due to alcoholism and now she was going to end up burying her son; she couldn't possibly manage all this and her house , I would have to look after her. The only sane, capable person who could cope and manage was sensible, reliable me and like a good, reliable codie I dealt with everything Mum, brother, hospital, house, just like I always have. Only this time, it was my codie bottom – I had finally gotten to the point where I did not want this any more. They could act out all they wanted but from this point on I was going to put myself, my son and my own family first. So I went no contact and ended up here on SR.
I have been NC with my family of origin for over a month now and I am now starting to look at how codependent my own thinking can be towards them BUT I am not sure whether this is codependent enmeshment or whether I am grieving my losses.
If I am honest, I am very, very hurt that they have not made any effort whatsoever to contact me. I am relieved that I do not have to deal with their chaos and catastrophes but I am hurting and grieving for me. It hurts a lot when your son is diagnosed with Autism and society sticks a disabled label on him. I know, he and we will adapt, but it still hurts when your mother and brother cannot say “I am so sorry; you are coping brilliantly; we will do everything we can to help out.” They are so wound up in their own cr*p they can't acknowledge my needs because my needs mean that I'll be putting myself first and not them. It hurts so much – I have always dropped everything and given a lot of my time to help them and it hurts so much they cannot reciprocate, that I am not worth looking after, that my only value to them is how much I look after them.
It's just another example of how worthless I am to my mother. I was never worth enough to get me the hell out of the abuse and alcoholic home I endured as a child and now I am not worth enough to show some basic human kindness and compassion to. I am only worth blaming as an ungrateful daughter.
My other issue with codependency is learning to live my new truthful reality, my newly realigned life as a survivor of childhood and adult abuse who chooses to live her life independent of her alcoholic family of origin.. I know it's very early days but I find it really hard to put myself first and do things for myself. As an at-home carer, I have a lot of time to fill and I'm not that good at filling it with positive things. I guess after 44 years of codependency it's easier to obsess about my family of origin and fixing other people's problems.
Any thoughts, observations or practical advice gratefully received,
IWTHxxx
PS I am seeing a family counsellor. Also, unfortunately, an Al-Anon group is not an option for me – my only local group consists of a group of women who support one another whilst living in alcoholic marriages. My own experiences as an ACOA and wanting to talk about codependency did NOT go down well.
I normally post on the ACOA part of the forum but have read some really good insights and advice here on codependency issues. I wonder if you could cast your eyes over this post and tell me what you think.
This post has links to my recent one on grief on the ACOA forum..
I'd like to share a little more of my own recent history. Over the past five years, my son who is now 17, developed increasingly severe mental health problems – depression, anxiety, panic attacks, phobias, suicidal thoughts and obsessive-compulsive disorder+++. It became a pattern of me “putting him back together” just to send him back to school and wait for the next inevitable crash. Like a good Mum (codie / control freak), I exhausted myself visiting doctors, educational psychologists, school staff trying to “fix” this “problem” and “make” my son “fit” the education system and the “expectation” that “I” had for him.
Four months ago, my son could no longer cope and I and the school accepted we were doing more harm than good trying to keep him in school. The educational psychologist diagnosed High Functioning Autism / Aspberger's Syndrome with resultant mental health problems due to social anxiety. My son left school and was awarded Disability Living Allowance (UK social security benefit) and I left full-time employment to become his Carer (UK social security benefit).
A traumatic enough experience on it's own but our own little family unit - me, dh and dd were working through the changes, making adjustments and allowances as we went along and adapting to our new family reality.
It was only when I brought my addict family of origin into the mix that the sh*t really hit the fan and the roller coaster took off. My codependent mother would not accept the fact that there was Autism and a “disability” in the family. She went into denial and blame mode – the doctors didn't know what they were talking about and it was all my fault for letting him spend so much time on his computer. She then went into awfulisation mode – what would happen to ds when we died, he would be left on his own, rocking in an institution. She triangulated, discussed this with my alcoholic brother behind my back (AF died 21 years ago). My son's diagnosis really threatened them both. At this point, they both upped their alcoholic and codie games – almost as if they were trying to establish THEMSELVES as the most important things that I had to take care of NOT my son. This may have been coincidence but I'm not sure – the frequency and intensity of their behaviour went through the roof.
My brother went on several major alcoholic benders, one of which ended up with him being assaulted, having his jaw broken and ending up in hospital for major surgery. My mother took to her sick bed with hysterics – she had already buried my father due to alcoholism and now she was going to end up burying her son; she couldn't possibly manage all this and her house , I would have to look after her. The only sane, capable person who could cope and manage was sensible, reliable me and like a good, reliable codie I dealt with everything Mum, brother, hospital, house, just like I always have. Only this time, it was my codie bottom – I had finally gotten to the point where I did not want this any more. They could act out all they wanted but from this point on I was going to put myself, my son and my own family first. So I went no contact and ended up here on SR.
I have been NC with my family of origin for over a month now and I am now starting to look at how codependent my own thinking can be towards them BUT I am not sure whether this is codependent enmeshment or whether I am grieving my losses.
If I am honest, I am very, very hurt that they have not made any effort whatsoever to contact me. I am relieved that I do not have to deal with their chaos and catastrophes but I am hurting and grieving for me. It hurts a lot when your son is diagnosed with Autism and society sticks a disabled label on him. I know, he and we will adapt, but it still hurts when your mother and brother cannot say “I am so sorry; you are coping brilliantly; we will do everything we can to help out.” They are so wound up in their own cr*p they can't acknowledge my needs because my needs mean that I'll be putting myself first and not them. It hurts so much – I have always dropped everything and given a lot of my time to help them and it hurts so much they cannot reciprocate, that I am not worth looking after, that my only value to them is how much I look after them.
It's just another example of how worthless I am to my mother. I was never worth enough to get me the hell out of the abuse and alcoholic home I endured as a child and now I am not worth enough to show some basic human kindness and compassion to. I am only worth blaming as an ungrateful daughter.
My other issue with codependency is learning to live my new truthful reality, my newly realigned life as a survivor of childhood and adult abuse who chooses to live her life independent of her alcoholic family of origin.. I know it's very early days but I find it really hard to put myself first and do things for myself. As an at-home carer, I have a lot of time to fill and I'm not that good at filling it with positive things. I guess after 44 years of codependency it's easier to obsess about my family of origin and fixing other people's problems.
Any thoughts, observations or practical advice gratefully received,
IWTHxxx
PS I am seeing a family counsellor. Also, unfortunately, an Al-Anon group is not an option for me – my only local group consists of a group of women who support one another whilst living in alcoholic marriages. My own experiences as an ACOA and wanting to talk about codependency did NOT go down well.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
IWTH,
Thank you for sharing your story and you current struggle. I am so sorry to hear about your son's troubles. I am in awe of your resolve and your acceptance of his condition. This will bring quality to his life that might not occur otherwise.
I am at the point myself where I am no longer in a relationship with an alcoholic and want to learn to cope with the unhealthy relationships in my family. I also want to learn how to foster healthier relationships in my life going forward and to heal my codependent tendencies.
I have found the CoDa fellowship readings, step study, and online suppot to be very helpful in focusing on me now that I have gone no contact with my EXABF and have very limited contact with my family (codependent/controlling issues there).
Their main website is here Welcome to Co-Dependents Anonymous World Fellowship
The UK site is here Co-Dependents Anonymous
There are online meetings under "Alternative Meetings" if you do not find one close to you.
The meetings in my area are only once a week when I am working so I attend an online meeting these days. Very supportive and we do discuss alot of Al-Anon, Nar-Anon, and ACoA topics. Home Page
I hope this is helpful for you.
Alice
Thank you for sharing your story and you current struggle. I am so sorry to hear about your son's troubles. I am in awe of your resolve and your acceptance of his condition. This will bring quality to his life that might not occur otherwise.
I am at the point myself where I am no longer in a relationship with an alcoholic and want to learn to cope with the unhealthy relationships in my family. I also want to learn how to foster healthier relationships in my life going forward and to heal my codependent tendencies.
I have found the CoDa fellowship readings, step study, and online suppot to be very helpful in focusing on me now that I have gone no contact with my EXABF and have very limited contact with my family (codependent/controlling issues there).
Their main website is here Welcome to Co-Dependents Anonymous World Fellowship
The UK site is here Co-Dependents Anonymous
There are online meetings under "Alternative Meetings" if you do not find one close to you.
The meetings in my area are only once a week when I am working so I attend an online meeting these days. Very supportive and we do discuss alot of Al-Anon, Nar-Anon, and ACoA topics. Home Page
I hope this is helpful for you.
Alice
Last edited by ItsmeAlice; 09-23-2009 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Edited to ad site for online meeting.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
(((Iwanttoheal)))
I want you to heal, too!
I am sorry about your son. I think you are handling yourself and your new journey beautifully. I applaud you and your determination to take care of your responsibilities.
Your son's diagnosis may be a blessing. No more roller coaster of trying this and that. Now you know what you are dealing with and can take steps to meet the challenges.
Is this grief or codie behavior? Maybe both. You are grieving the life you wanted for your son. The dreams of a young lad finishing public school with a group of buddies all around may have been wishful thinking. Your reality may be a little different. Therefore, you are grieving the loss of one type of lifestyle you wanted for your son. He may still have his education, just from a different source. He may still have a group of buddies to hang out with, but from a different source. You'll take a different journey to get there.
You want compassion and understanding from your loved ones during this process. The part of you that 'expects' it from your mother and brother, may be a codie reaction to their inappropriate actions. Feeling like a victim and/or martyred for all you've done for them, right? It's okay. We have to become aware of our codie behaviors, then move into acceptance of them before we can take action to improve our behaviors. All part of the process. Please be gentle with yourself.
You said:
As an at-home carer, I have a lot of time to fill and I'm not that good at filling it with positive things.
Try a basic recovery tool for alcoholics during these times: Create new routines for yourself. Little home improvement projects like painting a wall will give you something you can look at everyday as an accomplishment you achieved. Take yourself for walks in your neighborhood. Meet new neighbors. Teach yourself a new craft. Something maybe you and your son can do together. One Day at a Time.
Keep reaching out for the help you need. We're here to support you!:ghug3
I want you to heal, too!
I am sorry about your son. I think you are handling yourself and your new journey beautifully. I applaud you and your determination to take care of your responsibilities.
Your son's diagnosis may be a blessing. No more roller coaster of trying this and that. Now you know what you are dealing with and can take steps to meet the challenges.
Is this grief or codie behavior? Maybe both. You are grieving the life you wanted for your son. The dreams of a young lad finishing public school with a group of buddies all around may have been wishful thinking. Your reality may be a little different. Therefore, you are grieving the loss of one type of lifestyle you wanted for your son. He may still have his education, just from a different source. He may still have a group of buddies to hang out with, but from a different source. You'll take a different journey to get there.
You want compassion and understanding from your loved ones during this process. The part of you that 'expects' it from your mother and brother, may be a codie reaction to their inappropriate actions. Feeling like a victim and/or martyred for all you've done for them, right? It's okay. We have to become aware of our codie behaviors, then move into acceptance of them before we can take action to improve our behaviors. All part of the process. Please be gentle with yourself.
You said:
As an at-home carer, I have a lot of time to fill and I'm not that good at filling it with positive things.
Try a basic recovery tool for alcoholics during these times: Create new routines for yourself. Little home improvement projects like painting a wall will give you something you can look at everyday as an accomplishment you achieved. Take yourself for walks in your neighborhood. Meet new neighbors. Teach yourself a new craft. Something maybe you and your son can do together. One Day at a Time.
Keep reaching out for the help you need. We're here to support you!:ghug3
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
diagnosed High Functioning Autism / Aspberger's Syndrome ... My son left school and was awarded Disability Living Allowance ... society sticks a disabled label on him
When we describe a person as "disabled" we peg them as "less than." This carries a lot of stigma and results in prejudice. In the disability community, we advocate for identifying the person as a person FIRST and the disability as something that they HAVE, not something that they ARE. So, it may help you to ignore people who think of your son as "disabled" or explain to them that he merely HAS a medical condition.
If we do not change the words we use to describe folks with disabilities, we cannot change the stigma society places on them. It must begin with us.
My other issue with codependency is learning to live my new truthful reality, my newly realigned life as a survivor of childhood and adult abuse who chooses to live her life independent of her alcoholic family of origin.
It's just another example of how worthless I am...I guess after 44 years of codependency it's easier to obsess about my family of origin and fixing other people's problems.
I hope you feel better soon.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
IWTH,
This stood out for me:
There is a door you move through when you've reached a certain spot in your recovery (it's very much like the door Dorothy passes through in the Wizard of Oz when she goes from black and white to color, I think LOL)
Before the door, you make these statements and still feel in your heart that it is some sort of reflection on you. After all, she has trained you to feel this way.
After the door, you make these statements and your heart knows that it is ONLY a reflection on HER. You begin to see people like this as just another human being who you must avoid at all costs, like Hitler or Charles Manson, because they are just walking balls of pain and damage and they will hurt you in their ignorance and meanness. I can tell you, here on the technicolor side, these people cannot hurt you any more.
But how to get through to the good side of recovery?
I could go on for pages (and some here do!
) but really I think it came down to three fundamental things:
1) Counseling - to analyze and understand the complex mental dynamic that's going on when we finally extricate ourselves from this horror
2) Inner Work - to use reading, journaling, and any other tools available to reconnect powerfully with the things that I love, and to re-learn (or learn) that there is so much beauty in the world and inside the glass globe of my life...to learn how to look at myself in the mirror and say, as Walt Whitman said, "I am larger, better than I thought...I did not know I held so much goodness."
3) Outer Work - this is the staying-busy part. Finding the things I was passionate about, and packing them into my day, was crucial. This is the "focus on us" part that we talk about here a lot. For me, every day had several elements, carefully scheduled:
a physical activity element (very important, for clarity),
a right-brain (artistic) element like writing or art,
a growing-me element (learning something new and fascinating),
a financial element (30 minutes a day devoted to some sort of self-sufficiency or future-focus)
...and others, as they came up.
My goal, in early recovery, was to fill my life with these things (above) and fall into bed at night exhausted, sleep the sleep of the dead, wake up refreshed, and begin again.
Even now, these are the times when I am happiest.
And the awful members of my family of origin? They rarely enter my thoughts, truly. They have no place in the life I've created......they haven't earned a place in it, and I would no sooner be near them than I would buy lunch for Osama Bin Laden. Makes no sense.
Hugs to you, on your learning journey
This stood out for me:
It's just another example of how worthless I am to my mother. I was never worth enough to get me the hell out of the abuse and alcoholic home I endured as a child and now I am not worth enough to show some basic human kindness and compassion to. I am only worth blaming as an ungrateful daughter.
Before the door, you make these statements and still feel in your heart that it is some sort of reflection on you. After all, she has trained you to feel this way.
After the door, you make these statements and your heart knows that it is ONLY a reflection on HER. You begin to see people like this as just another human being who you must avoid at all costs, like Hitler or Charles Manson, because they are just walking balls of pain and damage and they will hurt you in their ignorance and meanness. I can tell you, here on the technicolor side, these people cannot hurt you any more.
But how to get through to the good side of recovery?
I could go on for pages (and some here do!
) but really I think it came down to three fundamental things:1) Counseling - to analyze and understand the complex mental dynamic that's going on when we finally extricate ourselves from this horror
2) Inner Work - to use reading, journaling, and any other tools available to reconnect powerfully with the things that I love, and to re-learn (or learn) that there is so much beauty in the world and inside the glass globe of my life...to learn how to look at myself in the mirror and say, as Walt Whitman said, "I am larger, better than I thought...I did not know I held so much goodness."
3) Outer Work - this is the staying-busy part. Finding the things I was passionate about, and packing them into my day, was crucial. This is the "focus on us" part that we talk about here a lot. For me, every day had several elements, carefully scheduled:
a physical activity element (very important, for clarity),
a right-brain (artistic) element like writing or art,
a growing-me element (learning something new and fascinating),
a financial element (30 minutes a day devoted to some sort of self-sufficiency or future-focus)
...and others, as they came up.
My goal, in early recovery, was to fill my life with these things (above) and fall into bed at night exhausted, sleep the sleep of the dead, wake up refreshed, and begin again.
Even now, these are the times when I am happiest.
And the awful members of my family of origin? They rarely enter my thoughts, truly. They have no place in the life I've created......they haven't earned a place in it, and I would no sooner be near them than I would buy lunch for Osama Bin Laden. Makes no sense.
Hugs to you, on your learning journey
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 197
Thank you to everyone who has replied, I really am so grateful for your time, it's why I keep coming back (lol).
I feel like I'm standing in the doorway and I am trying to find the courage to step into that new technicolour land. What I have learnt is that I actually WANT to stay away from that black and white world with people who damage me - I have managed it physically and slowly, slowly I am managing to extend the emotional distance.
I will look forward to that day where I have progressed so far that they truly cannot hurt me.
Thanks again, IWTHxxx
I feel like I'm standing in the doorway and I am trying to find the courage to step into that new technicolour land. What I have learnt is that I actually WANT to stay away from that black and white world with people who damage me - I have managed it physically and slowly, slowly I am managing to extend the emotional distance.
I will look forward to that day where I have progressed so far that they truly cannot hurt me.
Thanks again, IWTHxxx
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Hey IHTH
This speaks loudly to me. Even though you've made the decision to distance yourself, this is sort of a high school nightmare come true: that if you disappeared, no one would care. And of all the people "not to care" in the world, here it's your family.
It's so hard not to take it personally. After all, we're surrounded by messages in society about how core family is. What's supposed to be a source of strength for us is now a sink, leeching our strength from us... at least, initially in recovery.
Oh man, I am still having these thoughts too - these extreme feelings of how-can-I-be-so-worthless when I know deep down I should be valued for how hard I've worked to be a "good daughter". It feels like if I'm getting nothing for all that then I must be worth nothing. 
But I think GiveLove is closer to the truth - their behavior is not a reflection of you. Even if this does take a long time to grieve, process, and accept. They could be doing this to you, the girl next door, the woman at the checkout, etc. Push come to shove, they need someone to fill in this role. It's part of the addiction. It's not you.
It may be a while before you can finally believe it (and clearly you know I'm not at this stage yet either). What you can believe now is that in spite of the setbacks and new challenges, you can certainly do a better job for your son, and you will reap benefits from a GOOD parent-child relationship that your family just does not have the capacity to understand or appreciate.
Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal 
If I am honest, I am very, very hurt that they have not made any effort whatsoever to contact me. I am relieved that I do not have to deal with their chaos and catastrophes but I am hurting and grieving for me.
It's so hard not to take it personally. After all, we're surrounded by messages in society about how core family is. What's supposed to be a source of strength for us is now a sink, leeching our strength from us... at least, initially in recovery.
Originally Posted by Iwanttoheal
It's just another example of how worthless I am to my mother. I was never worth enough to get me the hell out of the abuse and alcoholic home I endured as a child and now I am not worth enough to show some basic human kindness and compassion to. I am only worth blaming as an ungrateful daughter.
But I think GiveLove is closer to the truth - their behavior is not a reflection of you. Even if this does take a long time to grieve, process, and accept. They could be doing this to you, the girl next door, the woman at the checkout, etc. Push come to shove, they need someone to fill in this role. It's part of the addiction. It's not you.
It may be a while before you can finally believe it (and clearly you know I'm not at this stage yet either). What you can believe now is that in spite of the setbacks and new challenges, you can certainly do a better job for your son, and you will reap benefits from a GOOD parent-child relationship that your family just does not have the capacity to understand or appreciate.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I wanted to thank you acknowledge not only your post, but all of the replies, I got a great deal out of them and not only the first post but every response resonated with me, I have been trying to work on part three of Givelove's plan of action, sometimes I feel like I am so far away from where I want to be I despair of ever finding true happiness and fulfillment, sometimes I realize how far I have come in the last year since I "divorced" my family and "ran away from home"
I have been doing the first two parts of Givelove's plan, and step three (from 12 steps) until I am blue in the face, yesterday morning I was up before the dawn, sitting on my front porch watching the sun come up, and I had this amazing clarity of 'self", it was like utter and complete detachment and separation from all my "thinking" lately, and it came to me in a flash that I have been focusing totally "on the inside" and not quite doing enough to changing 'outside stuff".
How to explain..hmmm.....when I was working for my mother, who absolutely could be the OP's mother, the last few years, running her restaurant and taking it over until she could retire as time went on she gave me more hours and less money, until after 2 years I was working twice as many hours and making half as much money, not half as much $$$ per hour, half as much $$$ total, when originally she was paying me as much in two weeks as I made in one day when I owned my own company.
I allowed this to happen.
Somehow, this has taken place again, I am now working more hours and making less $$$ then when I started doing the work I am doing now, somehow, I am "working for my mother again", and while I realize that somehow I manifested this, and then allowed it, that normal people work for companies where you get "raises" I work for people that give you "lowers", by the way I have talked to a laundry list of employees who have worked for this company and every single one of them walked after getting their first "pay cut" because "times were hard" at this company, I allowed this to happen.
Twice.
I am now making about half of what I was making 8 months ago, and it wasn't enough then.
So it occurred to me, unless I actually change the situation, which I have been 'trying" to do, I have worked for many different companies but it's just slow right now, but unless I go outside the box, outside my "box" of thinking, I am not going to be fulfilled, no matter how much "inner work" I do, it's impossible to be "fulfilled" if I am unable to take care of myself you know?
My car is falling apart around me since I commute 4-5 hours a day, the tires are worn out, I need new brakes, the radiator has started leaking, I realize my clothes are falling apart on me, my boots are getting holes in them, I can't make ends meet, I can't pay my rent and my bills, I can't make ends meet any more, as time goes on I am making less and less, and juggling bills ..... I am at the end of a zero sum game, the business end of diminishing returns.
So all the self knowledge and therapy and step three's in the world won't help me unless I change my situation, actually take action, and somehow stop finding my mother in the world and working for her.
I have also been "repeating" situations and behaviors elsewhere in my life that are identical to past experiences.
8 months ago or so ago, after I "ran away from home" I was talking to a friend, and he said "Andrew, it seems you can't just jump straight to "healthy" that you are transitioning to "evil lite" and "sick lite" and the truth is that's exactly what I see happening, is incremental improvement in my life and while it's happening it appears to be happening so slowly I can't see the improvements occurring, but on hindsight and working with others I can actually see I have come a long way, if a year ago I was to say to myself this is what you would have in a year I would have said I was crazy and delusional, that no way could I have so much cool stuff, so gratitude lists and being objective are helpful, but I have a ways to go.
Anyway, it seems that we create our own reality, and that I am focusing on outside stuff, but really what I am trying to do is stop repeating all these patterns I got from my AcoA experiences, but one of the things I do need to change is the outside stuff I keep manifesting, that make sense? I keep recreating my family life in the world around me, and unless I change my thinking, which is what I have been working on, I will keep recreating this situation, but unless I change the situation, my thinking will get re-enforced and I will keep repeating it.
I can act myself into right thinking but can't think myself into right acting, you know?
Anyhow, thank you for letting me share on your thread, I relate to it ...I am it.
I have some experience with this as well 
I have been doing the first two parts of Givelove's plan, and step three (from 12 steps) until I am blue in the face, yesterday morning I was up before the dawn, sitting on my front porch watching the sun come up, and I had this amazing clarity of 'self", it was like utter and complete detachment and separation from all my "thinking" lately, and it came to me in a flash that I have been focusing totally "on the inside" and not quite doing enough to changing 'outside stuff".
How to explain..hmmm.....when I was working for my mother, who absolutely could be the OP's mother, the last few years, running her restaurant and taking it over until she could retire as time went on she gave me more hours and less money, until after 2 years I was working twice as many hours and making half as much money, not half as much $$$ per hour, half as much $$$ total, when originally she was paying me as much in two weeks as I made in one day when I owned my own company.
I allowed this to happen.
Somehow, this has taken place again, I am now working more hours and making less $$$ then when I started doing the work I am doing now, somehow, I am "working for my mother again", and while I realize that somehow I manifested this, and then allowed it, that normal people work for companies where you get "raises" I work for people that give you "lowers", by the way I have talked to a laundry list of employees who have worked for this company and every single one of them walked after getting their first "pay cut" because "times were hard" at this company, I allowed this to happen.
Twice.
I am now making about half of what I was making 8 months ago, and it wasn't enough then.
So it occurred to me, unless I actually change the situation, which I have been 'trying" to do, I have worked for many different companies but it's just slow right now, but unless I go outside the box, outside my "box" of thinking, I am not going to be fulfilled, no matter how much "inner work" I do, it's impossible to be "fulfilled" if I am unable to take care of myself you know?
My car is falling apart around me since I commute 4-5 hours a day, the tires are worn out, I need new brakes, the radiator has started leaking, I realize my clothes are falling apart on me, my boots are getting holes in them, I can't make ends meet, I can't pay my rent and my bills, I can't make ends meet any more, as time goes on I am making less and less, and juggling bills ..... I am at the end of a zero sum game, the business end of diminishing returns.
So all the self knowledge and therapy and step three's in the world won't help me unless I change my situation, actually take action, and somehow stop finding my mother in the world and working for her.
I have also been "repeating" situations and behaviors elsewhere in my life that are identical to past experiences.
8 months ago or so ago, after I "ran away from home" I was talking to a friend, and he said "Andrew, it seems you can't just jump straight to "healthy" that you are transitioning to "evil lite" and "sick lite" and the truth is that's exactly what I see happening, is incremental improvement in my life and while it's happening it appears to be happening so slowly I can't see the improvements occurring, but on hindsight and working with others I can actually see I have come a long way, if a year ago I was to say to myself this is what you would have in a year I would have said I was crazy and delusional, that no way could I have so much cool stuff, so gratitude lists and being objective are helpful, but I have a ways to go.
Anyway, it seems that we create our own reality, and that I am focusing on outside stuff, but really what I am trying to do is stop repeating all these patterns I got from my AcoA experiences, but one of the things I do need to change is the outside stuff I keep manifesting, that make sense? I keep recreating my family life in the world around me, and unless I change my thinking, which is what I have been working on, I will keep recreating this situation, but unless I change the situation, my thinking will get re-enforced and I will keep repeating it.
I can act myself into right thinking but can't think myself into right acting, you know?
Anyhow, thank you for letting me share on your thread, I relate to it ...I am it.
my "local" group consists of a group of women who support one another whilst living in alcoholic marriages. My own experiences as an ACOA and wanting to talk about codependency did NOT go down well.
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As ever, thanks Dothi
It's so hard not to take it personally. After all, we're surrounded by messages in society about how core family is. What's supposed to be a source of strength for us is now a sink, leeching our strength from us
This Is such a hard lesson to unlearn... but at least I recognise it now. I have always felt that the rest of the world "got the best" of my alcoholic family and I was always left to support them, take care of them and mop up their sh*t. My family seemed to have it all back to front - I used to look on in amazement at the "show" my AF, alcoholic brother and codependent mother could put on in the presence of other people and I was always waiting for "my turn" which of course, never came or was never enough.
Oh man, I am still having these thoughts too - these extreme feelings of how-can-I-be-so-worthless when I know deep down I should be valued for how hard I've worked to be a "good daughter". It feels like if I'm getting nothing for all that then I must be worth nothing.
I am always amazed in spite of everything I have done and achieved (and believe me, I am an over-achiever+++ and have achieved SUCH A LOT) that I can feel so useless. My sense of self-esteem and self-worth is non-existent. When my own family or work colleagues praise me or validate me, it seems to bounce off me - I guess because I am still looking for praise and validation from my mother and my alcoholic family. At least I now recognise that this is what I am looking for and that it will NEVER happen or if it does happen, the pay off for scraps of validation is further emotional pain and damage to me.
The flip side of this is if anyone criticises me it cuts me to the core and I go into headless chicken mode running around trying to do better and make amends - oh yes, my alcoholic family have done one hell of a head job on me.
But I think GiveLove is closer to the truth - their behavior is not a reflection of you. Even if this does take a long time to grieve, process, and accept. They could be doing this to you, the girl next door, the woman at the checkout, etc. Push come to shove, they need someone to fill in this role. It's part of the addiction. It's not you.
I have finally recognised that I need to stop defining myself in terms of my unhealthy alcoholic family. My family of origin is NOT the perfect, wholesome family portrayed in our society's idealised myths and fantasies. It never was and it never will be. The truth is that it was / is a lot, lot worse than my mother chooses to remember / believe.
I need to work on defining myself in terms of me and if I need validation, I need to choose healthy people and STAY AWAY from unhealthy people - small steps, one at a time.
IWTHxxx
Originally Posted by dothi
It's so hard not to take it personally. After all, we're surrounded by messages in society about how core family is. What's supposed to be a source of strength for us is now a sink, leeching our strength from us
Originally Posted by dothi
Oh man, I am still having these thoughts too - these extreme feelings of how-can-I-be-so-worthless when I know deep down I should be valued for how hard I've worked to be a "good daughter". It feels like if I'm getting nothing for all that then I must be worth nothing.
The flip side of this is if anyone criticises me it cuts me to the core and I go into headless chicken mode running around trying to do better and make amends - oh yes, my alcoholic family have done one hell of a head job on me.
Originally Posted by dothi
But I think GiveLove is closer to the truth - their behavior is not a reflection of you. Even if this does take a long time to grieve, process, and accept. They could be doing this to you, the girl next door, the woman at the checkout, etc. Push come to shove, they need someone to fill in this role. It's part of the addiction. It's not you.
I need to work on defining myself in terms of me and if I need validation, I need to choose healthy people and STAY AWAY from unhealthy people - small steps, one at a time.
IWTHxxx
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Originally Posted by Ago
...somehow, I am "working for my mother again"....
....every single one of them walked after getting their first ....
...I allowed this to happen...
..... I am at the end of a zero sum game, the business end of diminishing returns...
...I have also been "repeating" situations and behaviors elsewhere in my life that are identical to past experiences...
So much of your post resonated with me. I can relate to so many of your ACOA issues - or maybe we are simply the product of plain unhealthy, dysfunctional upbringings.
At 44, I could write pages on repeating situations and behaviours that I experienced in my upbringing. The positive on this, is like you I am now aware and am working hard not to repeat past unhealthy behaviour.
My observation is this, why are WE not one of the ones who "WALK AT THE FIRST (insert whatever is appropriate)".
How I see it is like this...
Growing up in an alcoholic home for me meant that I learnt to ENDURE - no matter HOW BAD THE SITUATION, I learnt to ADAPT and ADJUST. I never learnt that I had the POWER to say NO and to WALK AWAY from situations that caused me PAIN. I learnt to ENDURE and WAIT IN HOPE for the day when things would improve and of course that day NEVER came. The damaging unspoken message that you absorb growing up in an alcoholic home is that YOU are NOT WORTH ANYTHING BETTER.
Unfortunately we carry these messages into adulthood and I find myself at 44 having to relearn:
I have the power to say NO now
I have the power to walk away
I no longer have to endure
I am worth more and better things
These are easy things to write but so, so, so difficult to put into practice.
I hope some of you in alcoholic relationships with children can see what I am trying to put down in words. I know and understand that you are in so much pain yourselves BUT this could be your children's future reality - it is certainly my reality - I am getting there but I've already lived half my life and here I am having to TEACH MYSELF healthy behaviours and attitudes - just some food for thought.
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