I did it
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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I did it
I did it. I told AH that I wanted the divorce. The drinking after treatment was not a slip and it was a deal breaker. It hasn't been the amount it was before but he was hiding it from me, and the frequency was up to at least every other day. All his other behaviors are just the same really. I'm sure it is just a matter of time before he is full throttle if he doesn't decide to get back on track.
Lots of difficult conversation. I did recognize some of it as just the alcoholism talking. So much double talk. Other parts still left me feeling very bad/confused/upset/etc.
I have such a hard time explaining what alcoholism has done to me and my feelings about this marriage. How it is about more then just the act of drinking. He doesn't get it, I don't know how to explain it.
I know that this is right for *me* but I still have a lot of self doubt and confusion about how devestating this is going to be for the kids. They love their dad, their dad loves them, and he is good to them.
I want him to do what I want (of course!) during this whole debacle but that isn't going to happen. I sort of want my cake and eat it too. I want him to stay around here so the kids can see him regularly. He refuses. I wanted him to wait to talk to the kids not just disappear while they are in school. Nope.
I guess I just have to accept what he does and do the best I can with the conversations/kids by myself. And pray for some clarity or sign or whatever a person gets to help them feel like they are doing the right thing - or what the right thing is if this isn't it. Once again, I am just very afraid.
Lots of difficult conversation. I did recognize some of it as just the alcoholism talking. So much double talk. Other parts still left me feeling very bad/confused/upset/etc.
I have such a hard time explaining what alcoholism has done to me and my feelings about this marriage. How it is about more then just the act of drinking. He doesn't get it, I don't know how to explain it.
I know that this is right for *me* but I still have a lot of self doubt and confusion about how devestating this is going to be for the kids. They love their dad, their dad loves them, and he is good to them.
I want him to do what I want (of course!) during this whole debacle but that isn't going to happen. I sort of want my cake and eat it too. I want him to stay around here so the kids can see him regularly. He refuses. I wanted him to wait to talk to the kids not just disappear while they are in school. Nope.
I guess I just have to accept what he does and do the best I can with the conversations/kids by myself. And pray for some clarity or sign or whatever a person gets to help them feel like they are doing the right thing - or what the right thing is if this isn't it. Once again, I am just very afraid.
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Originally Posted by Thumper 
I have such a hard time explaining what alcoholism has done to me and my feelings about this marriage. How it is about more then just the act of drinking. He doesn't get it, I don't know how to explain it.
For me, I found a counselor who was experienced with alcoholism and codependence. We saw her together as a family, as well as each of us individually. I think it's great that your kids love their dad. I'm sure you probably do, too. They just need to understand that sometimes living with someone can be upsetting and unhealthy--even though you love them. Make sure they know there is nothing they can do or could have done to prevent this. The three c's, if they are old enough to understand.
Things will get better. Just keep doing the next right thing. (((hugs)))
L
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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They love their dad, their dad loves them, and he is good to them.
And this isn't changing!
And so you can teach them that this divorce is not the worst thing that could happen to them because they still have 2 parents who love them very much.
Just like with alcoholism - divorce isn't their fault!
They just need to hear over and over that they didn't cause you 2 to split up and that there is nothing they can do to get you back together. This is an adult decision, and you know it is painful for them and you are always avail to talk about how they are feeling/coping, and you love them, love them, love them! Reassure them that things are going to be OK (even when you feel shaky about that yourself, like I did!!).
I was so afraid about damaging my kids by divorcing - but what I discovered in reading every available thing about how best to handle it was that ongoing strife/stress/depression/denial/repressed or expressed rage, etc. in a child's environment is what damages them - not "divorce." Children need a calm predictable environment and reassurance and love, especially when a big change in life is happening.
I learned that keeping my marriage together just "because of the children" was doing them a huge disservice - a depressed and stressed out or "in denial" parent is a poor caregiver and role model for children. This impacts kids in negative ways.
So I learned it is the way I handled the divorce and the aftermath that mattered the most. It is a tough transition, but once I was through the change and established our normal healthy family routines my boys did very well. They are normal, happy, productive teenagers, with good friends. They have normal troubles and ups and downs. They know they are much loved by many people. That's pretty much all I can ask for - because the rest is just their life and what they choose to make of it when they fly away!
Thumper - I can only ditto LTD: "just keep doing the next right thing" for you and your kids! A mentally healthy parent is priceless in a child's life, especially if the other parent is an alcoholic or addict. It isn't about "love" unfortunately. We all love our allkies/addicts very much, and they may love us- but there is a serious price to pay for engaging with their lifestyle and insanity...too high a cost in my book....so I had to learn to love, genuinely, and sometimes from afar. And that didn't mean sacrificing myself. Or my mental health.
Easy does it--
peace-
b
And this isn't changing!
And so you can teach them that this divorce is not the worst thing that could happen to them because they still have 2 parents who love them very much.
Just like with alcoholism - divorce isn't their fault!
They just need to hear over and over that they didn't cause you 2 to split up and that there is nothing they can do to get you back together. This is an adult decision, and you know it is painful for them and you are always avail to talk about how they are feeling/coping, and you love them, love them, love them! Reassure them that things are going to be OK (even when you feel shaky about that yourself, like I did!!).
I was so afraid about damaging my kids by divorcing - but what I discovered in reading every available thing about how best to handle it was that ongoing strife/stress/depression/denial/repressed or expressed rage, etc. in a child's environment is what damages them - not "divorce." Children need a calm predictable environment and reassurance and love, especially when a big change in life is happening.
I learned that keeping my marriage together just "because of the children" was doing them a huge disservice - a depressed and stressed out or "in denial" parent is a poor caregiver and role model for children. This impacts kids in negative ways.
So I learned it is the way I handled the divorce and the aftermath that mattered the most. It is a tough transition, but once I was through the change and established our normal healthy family routines my boys did very well. They are normal, happy, productive teenagers, with good friends. They have normal troubles and ups and downs. They know they are much loved by many people. That's pretty much all I can ask for - because the rest is just their life and what they choose to make of it when they fly away!
Thumper - I can only ditto LTD: "just keep doing the next right thing" for you and your kids! A mentally healthy parent is priceless in a child's life, especially if the other parent is an alcoholic or addict. It isn't about "love" unfortunately. We all love our allkies/addicts very much, and they may love us- but there is a serious price to pay for engaging with their lifestyle and insanity...too high a cost in my book....so I had to learn to love, genuinely, and sometimes from afar. And that didn't mean sacrificing myself. Or my mental health.
Easy does it--
peace-
b
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Congratulations. And I'm sorry.
I'm right there with ya. I feel like attempting to discuss his drinking or his behavior is like mental/emotional gymnastics. He's like a contortionist. It's torture.
You will feel better. And worse. But the better will override the bad stuff. The hardest part is the kids. My kids love their dad and he is mostly good to them, with the exception of raging when they don't want him to drink. But as his addiction progresses, this too will change.
We must be stronger for our kids, for ourselves. I hope you have folks to turn to where you live.
Keep praying for that clarity. It'll come.
I'm right there with ya. I feel like attempting to discuss his drinking or his behavior is like mental/emotional gymnastics. He's like a contortionist. It's torture.
You will feel better. And worse. But the better will override the bad stuff. The hardest part is the kids. My kids love their dad and he is mostly good to them, with the exception of raging when they don't want him to drink. But as his addiction progresses, this too will change.
We must be stronger for our kids, for ourselves. I hope you have folks to turn to where you live.
Keep praying for that clarity. It'll come.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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It feels like I am choosing. Sacrifice myself or them. I choose to save myself, which felt really bad this morning. Thank you for reminding me that it doesn't necessarily mean I am sacrificing them to do so. That there is hope that we can *all* be emotionally healthy and happy.
Part of it is just letting go of that dream too. I've clung to it with a death grip of denial for a very long time thinking I could *make* it happen. Driving in the last nail myself really drives the point home that the dream was not and is not reality, or even close to it.
I'm going to leave work early to pick them up from school so we can have some time to talk before I have to go get the wild men, lol. :bounce
Part of it is just letting go of that dream too. I've clung to it with a death grip of denial for a very long time thinking I could *make* it happen. Driving in the last nail myself really drives the point home that the dream was not and is not reality, or even close to it.
I'm going to leave work early to pick them up from school so we can have some time to talk before I have to go get the wild men, lol. :bounce
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Hi Thumper! I went through the same thing. I can still remember telling my ex AH that I had filed for divorce and the way he looked at me like he had no idea that was coming. I used to just cry myself to sleep thinking about the kids and the loss of the dream of my vision of my family. BUT, before I made that step I had been to alanon, on here ALL the time, and had gone to counseling, and made the decision from a place of peace.
I have 2 children too - they were 5 and 6 at the time. They didn't even know anything was wrong between my AH and I because I was such a master at 'protecting' them. I'm sure inherently they felt unvoiced tension and certainly did not know a joyful home, but they were so confused. I don't know if that was a good or bad way to handle it, but it's what I did. The bright side is - that was the wake up call for my ex. Once I let go in PEACE and let go of the anger and resentment, and he saw that I had changed - he had no choice but to change. Anger, hositility, and resentment can NOT compete with love and peace - they may win the battle, but they will not win the war. I would not fight with him or be ugly or be spiteful, just honest and kind - and now we have a great relationship - he is an awesome, present dad, and one of my best allies in raising the children. The only advice I will give is this - and only because my sister gave it to me and I was so glad she did - you will have to get really strong, really fast, and batten down the hatches. It WILL break your heart to see your children sad about the divorce, that DOES NOT mean you are not doing the right thing!! Be strong - and you HAVE to know in your heart of hearts you are doing what is best. I don't know how old your children are (I may have missed it) - but, your children will respond to how you respond. If you cry and are sad and angry and let the negativity take over, they will too. If they see you at peace and safe, they will be too. This is absolutely the BEST CASE where you HAVE to fake it until you make it! I don't mean to not say you are sad or share authentic feelings with them. I just ditto what others on here have said. It will get better, and I saw such a change in everything for the better when I was happy and present and focused on them. I send you lots of hugs and prayers!!! There is a bright future out there!
I have 2 children too - they were 5 and 6 at the time. They didn't even know anything was wrong between my AH and I because I was such a master at 'protecting' them. I'm sure inherently they felt unvoiced tension and certainly did not know a joyful home, but they were so confused. I don't know if that was a good or bad way to handle it, but it's what I did. The bright side is - that was the wake up call for my ex. Once I let go in PEACE and let go of the anger and resentment, and he saw that I had changed - he had no choice but to change. Anger, hositility, and resentment can NOT compete with love and peace - they may win the battle, but they will not win the war. I would not fight with him or be ugly or be spiteful, just honest and kind - and now we have a great relationship - he is an awesome, present dad, and one of my best allies in raising the children. The only advice I will give is this - and only because my sister gave it to me and I was so glad she did - you will have to get really strong, really fast, and batten down the hatches. It WILL break your heart to see your children sad about the divorce, that DOES NOT mean you are not doing the right thing!! Be strong - and you HAVE to know in your heart of hearts you are doing what is best. I don't know how old your children are (I may have missed it) - but, your children will respond to how you respond. If you cry and are sad and angry and let the negativity take over, they will too. If they see you at peace and safe, they will be too. This is absolutely the BEST CASE where you HAVE to fake it until you make it! I don't mean to not say you are sad or share authentic feelings with them. I just ditto what others on here have said. It will get better, and I saw such a change in everything for the better when I was happy and present and focused on them. I send you lots of hugs and prayers!!! There is a bright future out there!
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Agree
Originally Posted by Thumper
Lots of difficult conversation. I did recognize some of it as just the alcoholism talking. So much double talk. Other parts still left me feeling very bad/confused/upset/etc.
I have such a hard time explaining what alcoholism has done to me and my feelings about this marriage. How it is about more then just the act of drinking. He doesn't get it, I don't know how to explain it.
I have such a hard time explaining what alcoholism has done to me and my feelings about this marriage. How it is about more then just the act of drinking. He doesn't get it, I don't know how to explain it.
Now, I want to mention also that even as dismal as your situation might sound now, that I still believe that ANYTHING is possible in life. I have a good friend who has a boyfriend who was hooked on cocaine for years. (She didn't start dating him until he had been clean.) He went through rehab FOUR times before getting clean & staying clean. He likely was not ready to lead a sober life until that 4th time, but in the process, he lost his wife, his kids wanted nothing to do with him and he lost several businesses he owned PLUS his house and many possessions--it was all due to the cocaine addiction.
Substitute booze or other illegal drugs in there & it's the same prospect for those who never want to get clean/sober. This same guy actually talked to my ex-boyfriend 2 summers ago. His story & testimony of recovery are amazing and I think he needs to be leading the AA meetings. While he is clean today, he has had to start all over. His house/car are in his Dad's name because he has no credit due to the bankruptcy. He is one who DID LOSE IT ALL but came back to reclaim his life. It can be done and I think your husband and even my ex COULD get sober but we can't do anything to get them there. They have to do that on their own.
Keep us posted & stay strong.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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: He just called. His sister told him not to come. That is where he was heading. Now he's back at home. Wants me to tell him what to do. It really doesn't occur to him to get a job, then get an apartment. He just doesn't know what to do but look for someone to take care of him. He wants someone to talk to, doesn't want to be alone. I told him to call the VA (where he did his treatment) and talk to one of his counselors there - lay it all out and get their opinion/advice/referrals of what he should do now. He'll probably be home tonight.
pbreath: I will stay steady, calm, centered. I will not be manipulated. I will be compassionate yet firm. I will insist on a concrete plan that meets everyone's needs, including mine. I will insist on boundaries if that plan means he is at home a few more days. pbreath: Send me strength.
Peaches: Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'll need them. The boys are 10yo, 8yo, and twins 3.5yo.
The only advice I will give is this - and only because my sister gave it to me and I was so glad she did - you will have to get really strong, really fast, and batten down the hatches. It WILL break your heart to see your children sad about the divorce, that DOES NOT mean you are not doing the right thing!! Be strong - and you HAVE to know in your heart of hearts you are doing what is best.
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I don't know what your husband's personality was like when sober, but I see elements of the immature guy I was once engaged to in your description of him. Although I can safely say that most of the men I have dated have been somewhat or very immature. The guy I was engaged to didn't drink but he didn't have a job for a while and I think it was mostly because he was afraid of life--not so much that he was lazy. But after a while, a guy who won't work is considered lazy by most people and that would also be a deal-breaker for me big time. I work 2 jobs and have for many years.
Robert walked out of his job at W-Mart in the fall of 2007. He didn't have a job for several months, a family friend loaned him (basically gave) him some money and he lived off that plus squandered a lot on old cars that he claimed he would fix up and sell. It was one of the moments where I realized that he was very likely bi-polar & that he was in one of those "high" spells where they were wound up and had a lot of energy. He ended up selling all those cars after so long and did not fix up ANY of them. In his lucid moments, he admitted that maybe he shouldn't have walked out on his job before finding another one. He admitted that it was foolish to buy the cars. He had some clarity at times..then he would drink even more later and be angry at everyone. It was a horrible, embarrassing sight to see. I don't know how much he remembers today but I'm convinced that he will continue in that spiral if he doesn't get treatment.
Your husband is not likely to get direction or clarity until he decides he wants to get sober. I remember Robert telling me that he didn't "need a mother" which is what he'd say if I said anything about his drinking or his behavior. Likewise, you don't need to be the Mom to your hubby either. You can't prop this guy up, believe me, I've tried it and the load just gets too heavy to carry. Step back (if you can) and see the situation through other people's eyes and know that until he wants to change, nothing will change and you can't help him. Get into the Al-Anon meetings. They will serve as the voice of reason in your otherwise chaotic living situation. It will get better & in time you will see that life can get better. I know the feeling of wanting to save these men. Sadly, we simply cannot do that.
Robert walked out of his job at W-Mart in the fall of 2007. He didn't have a job for several months, a family friend loaned him (basically gave) him some money and he lived off that plus squandered a lot on old cars that he claimed he would fix up and sell. It was one of the moments where I realized that he was very likely bi-polar & that he was in one of those "high" spells where they were wound up and had a lot of energy. He ended up selling all those cars after so long and did not fix up ANY of them. In his lucid moments, he admitted that maybe he shouldn't have walked out on his job before finding another one. He admitted that it was foolish to buy the cars. He had some clarity at times..then he would drink even more later and be angry at everyone. It was a horrible, embarrassing sight to see. I don't know how much he remembers today but I'm convinced that he will continue in that spiral if he doesn't get treatment.
Your husband is not likely to get direction or clarity until he decides he wants to get sober. I remember Robert telling me that he didn't "need a mother" which is what he'd say if I said anything about his drinking or his behavior. Likewise, you don't need to be the Mom to your hubby either. You can't prop this guy up, believe me, I've tried it and the load just gets too heavy to carry. Step back (if you can) and see the situation through other people's eyes and know that until he wants to change, nothing will change and you can't help him. Get into the Al-Anon meetings. They will serve as the voice of reason in your otherwise chaotic living situation. It will get better & in time you will see that life can get better. I know the feeling of wanting to save these men. Sadly, we simply cannot do that.
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I do go to al-anon. I need to select a sponsor.
Oh, I used to spend a lot of time thinking about what the hell was wrong with my AH. I have all kinds of diagnosis, lol. Mostly I think he has A LOT of adult child of an alcoholic stuff. Also, my son is the poster child for ADD and after his diagnosis I did some reading and I think AH is severely ADD even now as an adult. He was not at all open to that line of discussion at the time.
I do think I am done propping him up - but not really maybe. I just want him out of my house. I'm not sure how to do that with any compassion at all if I don't help him a little bit at this point. We'll see what he comes up with. I do want to maintain some sort of civil relationship with him. I can't cut him out 100%, we have kids.
Oh, I used to spend a lot of time thinking about what the hell was wrong with my AH. I have all kinds of diagnosis, lol. Mostly I think he has A LOT of adult child of an alcoholic stuff. Also, my son is the poster child for ADD and after his diagnosis I did some reading and I think AH is severely ADD even now as an adult. He was not at all open to that line of discussion at the time.
I do think I am done propping him up - but not really maybe. I just want him out of my house. I'm not sure how to do that with any compassion at all if I don't help him a little bit at this point. We'll see what he comes up with. I do want to maintain some sort of civil relationship with him. I can't cut him out 100%, we have kids.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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IT takes courage to do something like you have just done.
Do not worry about you or the kids unnecessarily- I know it is easy to say it- but even if it hurts now in the long run it is the best option, your health and the kids come first, don't lose sight of your ultimate objective which is peace and serenity.
Today that thought has helped me, thinking what I want most in my life, and that is peace... there are people, activities, situations that take me there, and I need to do WHATEVER IT TAKES... whatever it takes....
If you are very clear about your objective, things seem less complicated somehow
All the best
One breathe at a time...
Do not worry about you or the kids unnecessarily- I know it is easy to say it- but even if it hurts now in the long run it is the best option, your health and the kids come first, don't lose sight of your ultimate objective which is peace and serenity.
Today that thought has helped me, thinking what I want most in my life, and that is peace... there are people, activities, situations that take me there, and I need to do WHATEVER IT TAKES... whatever it takes....
If you are very clear about your objective, things seem less complicated somehow
All the best
One breathe at a time...
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Originally Posted by Thumper
I do go to al-anon. I need to select a sponsor.
Oh, I used to spend a lot of time thinking about what the hell was wrong with my AH. I have all kinds of diagnosis, lol. Mostly I think he has A LOT of adult child of an alcoholic stuff. Also, my son is the poster child for ADD and after his diagnosis I did some reading and I think AH is severely ADD even now as an adult. He was not at all open to that line of discussion at the time.
I do think I am done propping him up - but not really maybe. I just want him out of my house. I'm not sure how to do that with any compassion at all if I don't help him a little bit at this point. We'll see what he comes up with. I do want to maintain some sort of civil relationship with him. I can't cut him out 100%, we have kids.
Oh, I used to spend a lot of time thinking about what the hell was wrong with my AH. I have all kinds of diagnosis, lol. Mostly I think he has A LOT of adult child of an alcoholic stuff. Also, my son is the poster child for ADD and after his diagnosis I did some reading and I think AH is severely ADD even now as an adult. He was not at all open to that line of discussion at the time.
I do think I am done propping him up - but not really maybe. I just want him out of my house. I'm not sure how to do that with any compassion at all if I don't help him a little bit at this point. We'll see what he comes up with. I do want to maintain some sort of civil relationship with him. I can't cut him out 100%, we have kids.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Marshall, TX
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I have seen this from two different angles...as the child of an alcoholic that spent a huge amount of her adolescence WISHING her parents would get a divorce because of the chaos in our home and all the hiding, pretending and lying. So I know that there truly are times that divorce can be better for children than what they're living in. I have suffered many painful things in my adult life that could've been spared had my mother had the guts and the caring to leave.
I then put my own two children through a divorce at the ages of 12 and 13. They are now both in their 30's and have at some point in their adult lives in their own way let me know that they felt, looking back, that their lives turned out better overall because of the divorce.
I know that's not much consolation, but I hope it helps in some small way to alleviate your fears about your children. As others have said...they can still have a loving relationship with their father for the rest of their lives. It's just going to be a little different.
My thoughts are with you.
I then put my own two children through a divorce at the ages of 12 and 13. They are now both in their 30's and have at some point in their adult lives in their own way let me know that they felt, looking back, that their lives turned out better overall because of the divorce.
I know that's not much consolation, but I hope it helps in some small way to alleviate your fears about your children. As others have said...they can still have a loving relationship with their father for the rest of their lives. It's just going to be a little different.
My thoughts are with you.
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Originally Posted by Thumper
It feels like I am choosing. Sacrifice myself or them. I choose to save myself, which felt really bad this morning.
You have made the best decision for yourself and your children. You will re-read your posts months from now and be in awe of how much you have changed and adjusted to this difficult situation.
(((HUGS)))
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