transformyself

Holy Crap! That link to the Ebook written by beings of light is AMAZING.

These people ARE soul-suckers and then they feed us teensy bits back to keep us there.

I'm not going to give away my power anymore!

laurie6781

Queenie the following was originally posted by the fellow who started this site:

Addicts live in their own reality, not the real world.

Please stop beating yourself up. Make a list of the 'good' things and the 'nice' things about YOU. Go from there. That list will be a good stat on you helping you to rebuild your self esteem.

Also, please make yourself a GRATITUDE List. It becomes real hard to get down o one's self when one has a gratitude list in hand,

J M H O

Love and hugs,

TakingTime

Queenie, it sounds like a vulnerable place you are in, post-break up, and you've had some helpful home truths from others on here.

I just wanted to add that I've also felt at times sucked back into the lies and delusion of my XABF because I'm unable to completely go 'no contact' with him - we're still sharing a house albeit hardly ever there at the same time, and we share a child - so I would second the recommendation to, if you possibly can, just go cold turkey on contact and give yourself space to get your head straight and work on looking after yourself. Go to Al Anon meetings if you're not already, the sanity you find there will seep into your soul and be an excellent antidote to all this stuff. And working the steps there can give you peace from the guilt and self recrimination you feel about what you may have done in the relationship to cause damage.

TakingCharge, I found what you said very helpful about how dealing with this breakup isn't the same as breakups with other non -addicts. I too have been waiting for a rational discussion about our relationship and what went wrong, some 'closure', etc...but I think I really need to let go of that now and realise it's not going to happen.

BuffaloGal

Queenie, a quick note on rationality:

I just got an e-mail from my alcholic former husband's girlfriend. She was angry, accusatory and not particularly rational.

I just talked to him on the phone. He perfectly calmly criticized her and complained about how she "gets in his face and won't leave until he talks to her" and her "guiltmongering."

I don't doubt that no matter what issue she's yelling in his face about-- she's absolutely right. But it isn't going to make a bit of difference in what he believes or how he acts. That's just the way of things.

TakingCharge999

When they realize their 50%.... IF they ever do... we will already have grand children and have built a great life... and have forgot about their existence (can't wait lol)

TT I hear you, I work with xabf and lately we've been interacting more than ever, UGHH. He smiles and jokes as if we were still friends and nothing ever happened... I imagine the Good Guy died and this wandering body is the evil twin, a stranger.

BG... I guess they are used to be numb by now.

Learn2Live

Queenie

Quote:

i've been feeling overwhelmingly anxious and just overall feeling very uneasy with myself. i'm not happy with myself, i have all these lingering insecurities about the person i am and the way i interact with people, and i don't know if they're real or imagined, or if i'm just being too hard on myself.

I was this way my entire adult life. Then I learned that I have chronic, clinical depression. My medicine works great and I am actually on the lowest dose.

Quote:

xabf and i have been talking every now and then, and i'm sure it's not helping the way i feel. it's fine talking to him, i miss him so much and all our good times, but it doesn't seem as if he's changing his mind about anything. he says he forgives me for the things that i did, but he thinks we "tried" and he was treated poorly and he doesn't want to be in a relationship where he's treated bad. i admit i messed up, but am i being unrealistic in thinking that sometimes people screw up in relationships, and maybe they unintentionally hurt the person they love, but relationships require forgiveness and trying to get over things?

No, you're not being unrealistic in this. You have to remember that addicts and alcoholics aren't typically capable of having healthy relationships with others, and from what you've said he says to you, it's obvious to me he is still using you to blame for the problems his active use has caused. And you continue to believe that he is right. Try to understand, there is NO ONE to blame.

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he then brought up growing up in his family (his dad was an abusive alcoholic) and how, because of that experience, i should know that he wouldn't really react well to the types of things that happened in our relationship, and how he thinks i'm just expecting him to pick up the pieces of all the things i do to him in the relationship and that i don't really care. this doesn't really make any sense to me.

It doesn't make any sense to you because what he is saying is INSANE.
What an excuse-so he grew up in an alcoholic home
How should you know how to act FOR HIM? What are you, a mind reader? You are not responsible for that anyway, HE IS. Sounds like he needs to do some Family of Origin work. Nothing you say here that he said to you makes any sense to me either.

Quote:

i don't know, i'm just confused and feeling low.

I can understand entirely why you're confused--I think talking to him is confusing; and it's bringing you down. Hopefuly soon you will get to the point where you will just not want that madness in your life anymore. I've gotten to that point because I have peace and serenity in my life and the ONLY thing that damages my peace and serenity is ADDICTION and people who are actively using. Therefore, I prefer to choose not to have that person in my life anymore. He's giving me nightmares.

Mitsy

It took me a long time to realize that alcoholics truly are not capable of having any kind of healthy relationship because they blame everyone else for their own problems. But I will put the blame where it belongs and it belongs with the drunk who continues to drink. My former guy's Dad was also an alcoholic but he's been sober for about 30 years now. He did it cold turkey and didn't go to treatment or AA--that was what he used to bring up to me when I would suggest AA. He would say "My Dad didn't need AA" like it was beneath him to go to a meeting. However, it was not beneath him to drink and act like the town idiot which is what I believe he's become. There comes a time when you must cut ties in order to save your sanity. I believe many posters on this board are either almost to that point or have already done the bailing. It's hard and it's painful but not nearly as hard & painful as it would be to continue living or dealing with a drunk who refuses to get help. I'm glad I'm moving on..hard as it may be.

queenie88

L2L...i guess i'm continuing to believe that he's right regarding blame because i actually feel like i've done things in the relationship to warrant blame. i feel really rotten for the things that i did, and although pretty much everyone i talk to has told me that those things weren't that horrible, that relationships have gone through worse and survived, it hasn't gotten through yet i guess.

when he brought up growing up in an alcoholic home, i wanted SO BADLY to point out that i understand his past, but it's still seems to affect every relationship that he has, and quite possibly might until he does some self reflection or "family of origin" work as you pointed out. i know he would have gotten defensive about that, he's gotten super defensive before...how his dad was a horrible person, how i don't understand the things he's seen, etc. etc. he seems to want to hold on to the hurt, he seems to like feeling wronged and a victim. why?

queenie88

hi mitsy, i guess i'm still in the beginning stages of these types of realizations. i do remember one time, following a binge night, i told xabf how it scared me when he drank that much, and his response: "well, i guess that's just what my dad gave me." i guess that's another way of putting the blame on someone else??

Seren

Just raising the BS flag here. Just because he is putting it down doesn't mean you need to pick it up. This is all deflection away from his problems. You did not cause this, you cannot control it, and you cannot cure him.

Huge hugs!!!!! Take good care of yourself! HG

transformyself

This is a great thread. For me, trying to determine which AH to listen to--the raging drunk or the apologetic hung over drunk or the sweet, funny, charming husband that brought me coffee-was a real struggle.

Now I know they are ALL aspects of him. That one will not win over the other. And my choice is whether or not to be abused, neglected, ignored, violated and apologized to ALL THE TIME.

I left physically. Now I'm working on emotionally and spiritually getting a life and going NC.

Learn2Live

Okay, okay, I know, this is WAY too long and I'm sorry. I can't help it. I type fast and my brain goes ten thousand miles a minute...

HEY QUEENIE!

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L2L...i guess i'm continuing to believe that he's right regarding blame because i actually feel like i've done things in the relationship to warrant blame ... it hasn't gotten through yet i guess.

I think it hasn't gotten through to you yet because all of this goes WAY deeper than you are currently conscious of. It has taken me 12 years to get conscious regarding these kinds of things. Here's how I do it:

First honey, it sounds like you are still being ruled by your feelings and your desire for a healthy relationiship. if you want to change your feelings, you have to first get out of automatic, unconscious mode. My automatic, unconscious mode is to just feel my feelings, express my emotions and my words and other reactions directly in response to my feelings.

To get out of this mode, I have to(1) Delay the knee-jerk reaction and (2) change my THOUGHTS. To delay the reaction, I now take medicine. It works in most cases, except for ANGER when dealing with alcoholix and addix. To change my thoughts, I read lots of books, including the Bible (which I never did before that is why I'm mentioning it now) and talk to others who appear healthy to me. This changes my perspective and therefore my understanding of what is occurring inside and outside of me. This also reinforces and helps to eliminate the automatic reactions.

I also have to talk out loud to myself, telling myself what to do or what to stop doing. For instance, when I feel GUILTY way too much and can't stop thinking about it, when I'm alone I will sing a stupid song about why I shouldn't feel guilty and order myself, yelling, "NO GUILT! Guilt sucks!" or whatever silly thing to make me feel good and stop feeling guilty. These weird ways of reminding myself and bossing myself around help me to change my thinking for long periods of time.

I think your desire for a healthy relationship is good and you shouldn't change that about yourself. But I think you might need to accept honey that you are not going to get a healthy relationship with this particular person that you are still relating with. Drug addix and alcoholix, in recovery or not, are not typically easy to have relationships with. I've tried many times, and so have lots of other people here on SR and we're probably almost all willing to be against the probability of having a good relationship with one.

If I were in your place that you describe in your first paragraph here is how I personally would handle it:

1. Believe and accept that in reality, this guy is not going to give you what you want. In fact, getting what you want from this guy, or any other person, is not going to make you happy. First I think you need to define for yourself what a healthy relationship means to you. Then, examine this list that you write down and compare the list with what you have gotten with this guy over the past however many years. Really think about each and everyone and think about your real-life experiences with him.

2. Believe and accept that in reality THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BLAME. Blaming is a mechanism human beings use to avoid having to face themselves, become conscious of what they are doing to themselves, and change their behavior. Same thing with FAULT.

If you cannot or refuse to accept #2, you will forever feel GUILT. And guilt is poison. Stomp out guilt.

See? This is guilt and shame:

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i feel really rotten for the things that i did, and although pretty much everyone i talk to has told me that those things weren't that horrible, that relationships have gone through worse and survived,

3. This part also ties in with guilt and blame and fault. Queenie, the guilt that you feel in reality has nothing to do with your relationship with this guy. It is your relationship with YOURSELF and your relationship with YOUR HIGHER POWER that is causing the problem.

You feel rotten because you have acted in opposition to your values, your morals, and your standards for human behavior. You talk to others in order to feel better about what you have done, but you can talk to other people till the cows come home, nothing is going to change.

No human being on Earth can help you feel better about this and how you behaved. I can tell you all the rotten things I have done in my life and still you will not feel better because your heart does not compare YOUR behavior with MY behavior. You compare your behavior to HIS behavior and still you don't feel better even though what HE has done is much worse than what you have done. Because: Your heart compares your behavior with your values and those of your Higher Power. So, you have to sync up your behavior with your values. You may have forgotten your values, or you may have involved yourself in relationships with people that make yourself ignore your values. Just stop doing that and your problem is solved.

Also, asking this guy or any other human being on Earth for forgiveness does not work. Not a minister, a preacher, your Mom or Dad, a priest, the pope, the president, queen elizabeth, Gandhi, NOBODY can forgive you of your behavior but your Higher Power. And, choosing to not seek forgiveness from your higher power, and choosing to ignore your "bad" behavior only gets you shame and lowered self-esteem. I've done it so many times and for so long it is unbelievable. I am finally getting rid of all those things.

If you don't believe in God, it can be in your own best interest for you to just develop some small belief (you don't have to start going to church or anything, just try to establish a conscious contact with the human understanding of the person of God and ask HIM for forgiveness. I am willing to bet my entire house, Queenie, that this will work. Just try it. You don't even have to tell anybody.

4. Really, really try to accept and believe that there is NO SUCH THING AS RIGHT or WRONG (other than that as identified by your Higher Power). The human idea of "right" and "wrong" is COMPLETELY subjective. There is NO DEFINITIVE definition of either right or wrong. What I believe to be right is not the same as whatever everyone else believes is right. Same thing goes for "Fair" and "Unfair." Definition of any of these concepts is always subjective and therefore, useless as a mechanism for relating with others.

Here's what I say to myself: "So, you think you were right and he was wrong, huh? So, you think what he did was unfair, huh? Well, BooHooHooHooHoo." See? Thinking in terms of right and wrong, fair and unfair GETS ME NO WHERE. Don't judge others, leave that to your Higher Power. And don't judge yourself, leave that to YOUR Higher Power.

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when he brought up growing up in an alcoholic home, i wanted SO BADLY to point out that i understand his past, but it's still seems to affect every relationship that he has, and quite possibly might until he does some self reflection or "family of origin" work as you pointed out. i know he would have gotten defensive about that, he's gotten super defensive before...how his dad was a horrible person, how i don't understand the things he's seen, etc. etc. he seems to want to hold on to the hurt, he seems to like feeling wronged and a victim. why?

My guess is that you still want to point out to him that you understand, and you still want to discuss these things with him because you haven't let go of whatever it is you want from him. Me? I wanted validation from the other person of my beliefs and feelings, I wanted him to see that I was NOT crazy or psycho for reacting to him and our relationship the way I had been reacting. I wanted him to be the responsible, mature individual that I wanted to be with. I wanted him to work through his issues and stop blaming his upbringing for OUR problems in our relationship, so that we could have the mature and happy relationship I wanted. Let go baby. Start using your thoughts to let go of wanting these kinds of things.

Sorry again this is so long and all. I hope some little thing here helps.