Startingover2

Why is it when I decide to have a backbone and call him out on his crap, put boundaries up, and have my own life he pulls out the only statement he can:

"I love my daughter and I am not the monster you think I am"

Once again we have had a week of him trying to cake eat, play my emotions, give me hope..and once again I have caught him in a bold face lie. When I nail him, he always comes back with the above statement. I want to tell him....Well, if you love your daughter you wouldn't be doing the things you are.

How can they profess to love their children yet make such horrible choices, be so incredibly cruel, manipulating, and selfish. Loving your child means selflessness, maturity, and putting their needs above their own ego's.

tjp613

...because it's only quacking!! There is no real meaning behind the words, it's only manipulation and rationalization. Think of it more that he is saying those things to himself rather than to you.... he is telling himself that it's OK to continue drinking/drugging because the bottom line is that "he loves his daughter and is not a monster and that's all that really matters." These things are not true of course-- his daughter is suffering greatly and will for a long time-- but in order to stay in denial he has to rationalize.

Startingover2

So how do you respond? When he says blah, blah, blah...think what you want about me, but I love my daughter.

Your right. Its like he is trying to convince himself and wants to hear me say he is a good dad and he does love his daughter. But the love for his daughter has NOTHING to do with what we are even talking about anyway. He just throws it in there.

This statement should be coming yet again today. Yesterday I caught him in another lie. Just want to be prepared.

suki44883

But the love for his daughter has NOTHING to do with what we are even talking about anyway.

Then say that. Tell him it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. However, I have to ask...why do you confront him about his lies? What do you hope to gain? Do you think it will make him suddenly stop lying?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but he can't play with your emotions if you don't allow him to. Continuing to confront him each time you find a lie is allowing him to. Maybe you should re-think the constant confrontations. Just my two-cents worth.

tjp613

Well, if it were ME (and I acknowledge that it's not) I would go no contact as much as possible, concentrate on a healing path for myself and my daughter, and immerse myself in al-anon reading and meetings. In other words, I wouldn't be sitting here on a lovely Sunday morning worrying about 'what I'm gonna say'...I'd be getting on with the business of living. And to all his quacking, I'd just say, "uh huh. Well I hope that works out for you..." and mean it. Then I'd get my daughter and go to the zoo.

Chrysalis123

I completely get where you are coming from because I am dealing with the same thing. I have to fight myself to not spend the day being angry....I will NOT let his behavior further dictate another minute of my life, which is much easier said than done when my precious kids are involved.

Have you ever said to someone, "I am not a monster." in reference to your kids? I haven't, ever. I haven't because each day I do my absolute best for my kids, I willing put their needs ahead of my own, I lovingly teach them, and I enjoy every minute with them.

Hugs to you, Mom.

Perhaps your husband is telling you he views himself as a monster. I have learned over the last 2 years that if I listen carefully to the quacking of my XAH, he is often telling me about himself.

I can't control my XAH. He is going to be the kind of parent he wants. I present to my kids the example of the healthiest parent I can. I am their sounding board and I give them a voice...which he does not do. I choose friends carefully, especially trying to find places where the kids will be around men that are terrific fathers and husbands. I talk about addiction with them and help them understand dad is sick and that he does love them, but this is the best he can do at the moment. In private, I pray a lot. I attended lots of individual therapy to learn how to be a good parent and I read and attend Alanon. I work my recovery program each day for myself and for my kids.

cmc

I'll never forget hearing how a friend's sister had told her that her physically abusive husband wasn't 'so bad' because he took such good care of the front lawn!!! Hearing this turned a lightbulb on in my head...when I realized that nobody deserves a reward or strokes for doing what they are _supposed_ to do.
Why do you have to respond (with words) at all? Just as I measure things by what people choose to do...I need to respond in kind. I need to decide what action to do or not do, because....especially when dealing with an active addict or alcoholic.... my words often reach deaf ears.


I've had to remain alert with certain people & situations so that I will respond or react to the actions instead of the 'words' ie: good intentions, thoughts, feelings and outright lies. Sometimes I can skip the 'awareness' part of my recovery.

I don't need to respond, confront or accuse somebody if they say ridiculous things and I certainly don't have to defend my position on how I'm going to act toward another person if and when they treat me badly. I try to say what I need to, once.

Although my main qualifiers are in recovery, there are still a few people in my life who I need to be careful of. I don't want to react to them without careful and intentional thought, because when I let my guard down I can go back to square one and let their insanity affect me.

ItsmeAlice

I agree that no answer is necessary.

It sounds from your post that he uses this statement in response to being called out on his behavior. It's a minimizing maneuver and it must push some buttons in you because he finds it effective.
By not responding and taking away the power of his favorite catch-all repost you will leave him with the real problem at hand...his lying and his poor treatment of others.

I do wonder what you are benefiting from these interactions with him. While calling him out on a lie or other misdeed is validating and in a way satisfying, it is not going to do anything to improve your situation. He is going to continue lying and doing whatever ill he has been doing, because...well that's what addicts do until it no longer services their addiction.

I say, set those boundaries, declare them once and then take action when they are infringed upon. Telling him that his lies are unacceptable and when he lies again you will do X,Y, or Z. No excuses or minimizing will be entertained. When you catch him in a lie the next time just take action. No calling him out, no asking for explanations, just do what you say you will do. He will know why you've done X, Y, or Z and know he's been caught in a lie again. He might see a new futility of trying any catch-all excuses. Be prepared for a change in his behavior as you enforce your boundaries and as he adjusts to suffering the consequence.

Wishing you strength,

Alice

isurvived

Been there, heard that.

Awe, geez... I heard that for so many years. After I started getting my own recovery in gear, I tried to just go about my life, live it the best I could and let his troubles be his troubles. Divorce thoughts loomed in my mind, but at that time I wasn't ready to commit to it — so I "co-existed" as I term it with my AH. That went on for over 5 years. We barely spoke, slept in separate bedrooms. It was no marriage. I really don't know why I let it go for so long, I wasn't ready to completely let go and face the fact that it was over. Wasted years! But better late than never! I'm 57 and still have some living to do, happiness to have, and a better life all the way around! I do find myself still pining after those wasted years when I read posts like this one. I sat on the fence too long. Now, being removed from the drama, and that part of my life over - I AM much happier.

I often ask myself why I come to this site to read others accounts of their struggles... and I guess it is cause I am still healing, still need some validation, and while my AH is now my XAH and long gone from my life — I am still dealing with some of the fallout.

I do know it gets better. I can tell you there is LIFE OUT THERE!!!! Good luck to you in finding your happiness!

transformyself

Thank you thank you thank you for this thread. For this honesty. From everyone.

Here is great wisdom for me today:
I say, set those boundaries, declare them once and then take action when they are infringed upon.


Deciding whether or not I engage is the tightrope I walk. Do I continue this game of mental gymnastics? He's an emotional and mental contortionist. It is crazy making ****.
Or do I turn away from this gaurunteed pain to figure out how to love myself? See what I can become when supported and loved by the folks who actually do respect and love me?

today i'm going to let the people who love me do so.

Starting Over, my H is the same as yours, he uses the same words verbatim! Over the last year I've learned to state my needs, state what I have to say and not allow him to distract me from the message. He's a master at shifting the focus away from himself either by blaming me or playing the victim. When in doubt: bully, or guilt trip. That's his MO. And I feed right into it. I was programmed in childhood by alcoholic parents to feel like crap about myself, take the blame.

I'm ready to change that.

When I chose to engage, the outcome is a crap shoot. No, sorry, the IMMEDIATE outcome is a crap shoot. I can be attacked, validated or ignored. But his behavoir stays the same. And I end up doubting myself and choosing to believe lies.

When I choose to disengage and let go of every thought of him, of every compulsion to snoop, spend time trying to figure out what he's doing and then process how it makes me feel--when I truly, 100% let go and focus instead on my life, amazing things happen.

Yes, it's scary at times. Yes, it's thrilling and exciting much of the time. And yes, I"m lonely and sad and have to face how I got here, my responsibility in arriving at this place right here right now.

But I know what I will get when I try to change my husband. Madness. Anger. Pain. Crumbs. I know it. Today I'll chose to accept it.

I can't let fear of the unknown--fear of my future, in my hands, without him--keep my from trying. Cause when I've tried I've seen how strong and wonderful I can be.

Inquisitive7

Trying2survive, I can so relate to what you wrote above...and to this whole thread in general. I didn't know what my ex-BF did was "quacking."
I used to argue with him playing into his manipulations, at least to a certain extent. It was frustrating mind-fu@king. But, fortunately for me, I realized once I had reached the crazy-making stage, THAT was a huge red flag as was the case in prior relationships.

One of my last e-mails to him, I wrote "...you're a fraud and you know it. You have no intention of truly becoming intimate, only controlling and manipulating things the way you want. You've become so predictable."

I saw a pattern that had been in the relationship for almost two years, but that I didn't identify as being addiction related, esp. since my ex was in harm reduction mode and wasn't such a "bad case." Once I identified it and got clearer on my own boundaries around addiction, I put up the boundaries. Of course, he resorted to the pity party thing "You only see my as an addict" and then says I didn't see him for who he is (and pulls out aspects of who he was - but 20 years ago! - strange really).

It always hurts to leave a relationship where you really loved someone. But, the way I look at it, life is so much bigger and can offer much more than we can imagine. Yes, there are other fish in the sea. Yes, there are other oceans and continents to explore. Why get caught up in some narrow, myopic life that only hurts you?

Startingover2

I am giving it a huge effort today to not let him get to me...even though he is trying really hard.

This morning on my way to church I passed him and his married gf in town. I pretended not to see them and he looked like he was trying to melt into the seat. This is the gf that he swore yesterday was not in his life anymore! Ten minutes later he sends a text asking how we were and what we were up to...obviously fishing to see if I saw him after the gf was dismissed. I didn't respond as we were in church and he kept it up. Finally I said 'just leaving church. Baby is wonderful. Have a good day.' He came back asking if I was crabby. No need to go any further. I did my job in updating him about baby.

Waht a toxic life he leads. No wonder he needs alcohol to hide behind. Must be exhausting trying to cover his tracks all the time.

ItsmeAlice

So, there's another lie he's told and tried to worm around by texting about you and the baby, then turning it on you asking if you were crabby, and what did you do....nothing to engage him!!! WONDERFUL!!

Now, this is the part that always gets me.... the tricky part is not to rumenate in your mind the rest of the day what you would have like to have said and how you're going to point out later that you knew he was lying about the married GF and expect any kind of apology from him.

He wins if you rumenate.
He wins if you plot to call him out on his lie.
He wins if you confront him because he has pushed your buttons yet again.
He wins if you actually listen to his quacking excuses and diversionary tactics.
He wins if you go looking for an apology or validation because he'll never give you either.

Stay strong SO2, you've already won, no need to keep playing.

My boundary is ______. The consequence of crossing that boundary is ______. Crossing the boundary is his job, enacting the consequence is yours. Nothing personal, right? It is what it is. It's all business.

Great work going on today,

Alice

Jadmack25

When someone gives me an earful of quacking I use the same reply my girls used to me when they were in that weird non-communication time of "The Teenage Years". I am sure many mum's of teens know it well, and it probably drove them as mad as it did me.

The dreaded "AH Huh", which could mean everything or nothing, and leaves you up in the air. You know it means they heard you speak, but whether they understood is another matter.

It works for me, because as soon as I have said it, I head off to do something elsewhere and the conversation is ended.

God bless