Also new, and also confused
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southeast, MI
Posts: 17
Also new, and also confused
I have spent a lot of time browsing this site. A recent post compels me to come forward.
My wife recently completed an AR program overseas. I live in the US. We see each twice a year; I visit her during Christmas, and she spends the summers with me. In between those visits we communicate by way of daily phone calls and email.
We have known each other for five years. We fell in love pretty much from the moment we met. While, I was never inclined to believe that destiny reserves that one special person for us, being with her changed my mind. We shared an emotional intimacy that defies description. I sensed her presence and her love despite our long periods of separation. That sense was there from the beginning and while both of us spoke incessantly about how much we loved each other, words were never necessary. She felt from me what I was feeling from her.
She wasn’t drinking when we met, at least as far as I know. She would drink moderately when we would be together, but never to a point of excess. However, during the last 3 years she began binge drinking more and more frequently. She would become loud, obnoxious and confrontational during these binges. Her behavior made everyone around her uncomfortable; they made her look bad, and humiliated me. These events usually occurred when we were with my friends and acquaintances. These events usually ended with her expressing rage and anger toward me that would become violent on occasion. The days following these episodes included long periods of silence until we would talk about what had happened. I always believed, and still do, that we could work through anything together if we talked about it. These conversations were always positive. We would re-commit to one another, and life would be good until the next episode.
I don’t want to portray myself as the long suffering victim here. I made many mistakes in my reactions toward her behavior. I said things that I shouldn’t have said, withdrew emotionally. I never intended to hurt her; I just didn’t a clue about how to deal with these situations. I didn’t know what I was dealing with until this past spring.
She was coming to spend the summer again. However, instead of the excitement and anticipation always present in her tone proceeding these occasions I detected a casualness and hesitation. Our conversations became shorter and shorter. My instincts, usually very good, gnawed at me that something wasn’t right.
Two weeks before she was to arrive I confronted her with what I’d been sensing. I told her that whatever it was I needed to know about it. I didn’t want a surprise when I picked her up at the airport. She pleaded that she didn’t want to discuss it over the phone, but eventually gave in.
She would being staying only two weeks, not the summer as we’d planned. She was entering an alcohol rehab program within 30 days. She had gotten a DUI, lost her license for a year, and her job was in jeopardy if she didn’t enter a program.
My initial reaction was one of relief. My imagination had been torturing me for a month about what might be going on. This news was good on many levels. However, I had difficulty with the fact that she hadn’t been honest with me. I had to drag the truth out of her. She had kept important things from me in the past and I now had a fear that there were more surprises.
I tried every which way to be in a good state of mind when I picked her up at the airport. Picking her up at the airport was always a giddy occasion. However,it was different this time. Doubts about her honesty with me hung on me. I couldn’t shake those concerns. She picked up on my reserved welcome consequently our reunion was uncharacteristically awkward.
When she returned home she entered a 10 day program, to be followed up by a six week program. She would be isolated from family and friends for most of that time. We would not be able to talk at all during the 10 day stint and only briefly, once a week during the six week program.
Her calls were refreshing. She was upbeat, and in good spirits. She told me that she loved and missed me terribly. Everything seemed fine. I couldn’t wait for her to be home. My expectations were high.
When I didn’t get the expected telephone call on the day she was released I called her cell. She was in a car with her sponsor going shopping. She sounded happy, but not particularly excited to hear from me. That was unusual, but I attributed the reaction to being out and becoming re-acclimated to the real world. However, she had the same indifferent tone in her voice during our subsequent conversations. Always very expressive about how she felt, she seems reserved, especially if she was with friends. In the past she would give the phone to her friends so they could meet me. Now she seemed uncomfortable to be talking to me. Any terms of endearment she expressed toward me were generic; not much different than what one might express to a friend, or a pet.
Something was radically different and I needed to know what was going on. When we spoke privately for the first time, I told her what I was sensing. I asked her to tell me if anything had changed between us –knowing what I know now that was a really stupid question. She told me that nothing had changed. She was preoccupied with being and staying sober. That was her focus. She also told me that she didn’t have time to deal with my issues. I would have to work through them myself. Her tone was matter of fact and cold. I was devastated.
Then I did something that in retrospect makes me feel ashamed and stupid. I began to research alcoholism and recovery on the internet. The shame and stupidity were due to the fact that this hadn’t occurred to me until now. Why, didn’t this even cross my mind 8 weeks ago? The answer brought on more shame. My research was motivated by the pain I was in and I wanted to find relief.
Initial motivation aside, I really do want to learn about alcoholism recovery, especially my role where my wife is concerned.
Most of what I’ve read on this site and others is not very encouraging. I want to be there for her, but I get the strong sense, that whether or not I am, doesn’t matter to her. I am really not sure what being there means. I’ve read countless stories of relationships where a spouse is in recovery. These are people who see and touch each other every day. In the majority of posts that I've read hese relationships seem to fail eventually.
I believe that I understand the dynamics at play here. Her sponsor and support group are more important to her than I am. She needs them more than she needs me. They really are there for her. I am 5,000 miles away. I can’t compete with those logistics. How can I be there for her?
She has changed. My question (rhetorical) is does that change include me? At this point it doesn’t. It feels as if I am one of things in her past that she is to avoid. Was I was part of the problem? I’ve told her that there isn’t anything that I wouldn’t do to make her life easier. I thought that through before I told her. I mean it.
I love my wife deeply and I am not going to throw in the towel easily. I am seeking one on one counseling; I don’t think I can handle a group environment right now. I will exhaust all resources available. Yes, I want to feel from her what I once did, but I really do want to be able to be of meaningful support to her.
I could really use some insight, especially from anyone who has had a similar experience -that ended well. My won't talk with me about her meetings, the people in her life now, or what I can do to help her.
Thank you for tolerating this.
bb
My wife recently completed an AR program overseas. I live in the US. We see each twice a year; I visit her during Christmas, and she spends the summers with me. In between those visits we communicate by way of daily phone calls and email.
We have known each other for five years. We fell in love pretty much from the moment we met. While, I was never inclined to believe that destiny reserves that one special person for us, being with her changed my mind. We shared an emotional intimacy that defies description. I sensed her presence and her love despite our long periods of separation. That sense was there from the beginning and while both of us spoke incessantly about how much we loved each other, words were never necessary. She felt from me what I was feeling from her.
She wasn’t drinking when we met, at least as far as I know. She would drink moderately when we would be together, but never to a point of excess. However, during the last 3 years she began binge drinking more and more frequently. She would become loud, obnoxious and confrontational during these binges. Her behavior made everyone around her uncomfortable; they made her look bad, and humiliated me. These events usually occurred when we were with my friends and acquaintances. These events usually ended with her expressing rage and anger toward me that would become violent on occasion. The days following these episodes included long periods of silence until we would talk about what had happened. I always believed, and still do, that we could work through anything together if we talked about it. These conversations were always positive. We would re-commit to one another, and life would be good until the next episode.
I don’t want to portray myself as the long suffering victim here. I made many mistakes in my reactions toward her behavior. I said things that I shouldn’t have said, withdrew emotionally. I never intended to hurt her; I just didn’t a clue about how to deal with these situations. I didn’t know what I was dealing with until this past spring.
She was coming to spend the summer again. However, instead of the excitement and anticipation always present in her tone proceeding these occasions I detected a casualness and hesitation. Our conversations became shorter and shorter. My instincts, usually very good, gnawed at me that something wasn’t right.
Two weeks before she was to arrive I confronted her with what I’d been sensing. I told her that whatever it was I needed to know about it. I didn’t want a surprise when I picked her up at the airport. She pleaded that she didn’t want to discuss it over the phone, but eventually gave in.
She would being staying only two weeks, not the summer as we’d planned. She was entering an alcohol rehab program within 30 days. She had gotten a DUI, lost her license for a year, and her job was in jeopardy if she didn’t enter a program.
My initial reaction was one of relief. My imagination had been torturing me for a month about what might be going on. This news was good on many levels. However, I had difficulty with the fact that she hadn’t been honest with me. I had to drag the truth out of her. She had kept important things from me in the past and I now had a fear that there were more surprises.
I tried every which way to be in a good state of mind when I picked her up at the airport. Picking her up at the airport was always a giddy occasion. However,it was different this time. Doubts about her honesty with me hung on me. I couldn’t shake those concerns. She picked up on my reserved welcome consequently our reunion was uncharacteristically awkward.
When she returned home she entered a 10 day program, to be followed up by a six week program. She would be isolated from family and friends for most of that time. We would not be able to talk at all during the 10 day stint and only briefly, once a week during the six week program.
Her calls were refreshing. She was upbeat, and in good spirits. She told me that she loved and missed me terribly. Everything seemed fine. I couldn’t wait for her to be home. My expectations were high.
When I didn’t get the expected telephone call on the day she was released I called her cell. She was in a car with her sponsor going shopping. She sounded happy, but not particularly excited to hear from me. That was unusual, but I attributed the reaction to being out and becoming re-acclimated to the real world. However, she had the same indifferent tone in her voice during our subsequent conversations. Always very expressive about how she felt, she seems reserved, especially if she was with friends. In the past she would give the phone to her friends so they could meet me. Now she seemed uncomfortable to be talking to me. Any terms of endearment she expressed toward me were generic; not much different than what one might express to a friend, or a pet.
Something was radically different and I needed to know what was going on. When we spoke privately for the first time, I told her what I was sensing. I asked her to tell me if anything had changed between us –knowing what I know now that was a really stupid question. She told me that nothing had changed. She was preoccupied with being and staying sober. That was her focus. She also told me that she didn’t have time to deal with my issues. I would have to work through them myself. Her tone was matter of fact and cold. I was devastated.
Then I did something that in retrospect makes me feel ashamed and stupid. I began to research alcoholism and recovery on the internet. The shame and stupidity were due to the fact that this hadn’t occurred to me until now. Why, didn’t this even cross my mind 8 weeks ago? The answer brought on more shame. My research was motivated by the pain I was in and I wanted to find relief.
Initial motivation aside, I really do want to learn about alcoholism recovery, especially my role where my wife is concerned.
Most of what I’ve read on this site and others is not very encouraging. I want to be there for her, but I get the strong sense, that whether or not I am, doesn’t matter to her. I am really not sure what being there means. I’ve read countless stories of relationships where a spouse is in recovery. These are people who see and touch each other every day. In the majority of posts that I've read hese relationships seem to fail eventually.
I believe that I understand the dynamics at play here. Her sponsor and support group are more important to her than I am. She needs them more than she needs me. They really are there for her. I am 5,000 miles away. I can’t compete with those logistics. How can I be there for her?
She has changed. My question (rhetorical) is does that change include me? At this point it doesn’t. It feels as if I am one of things in her past that she is to avoid. Was I was part of the problem? I’ve told her that there isn’t anything that I wouldn’t do to make her life easier. I thought that through before I told her. I mean it.
I love my wife deeply and I am not going to throw in the towel easily. I am seeking one on one counseling; I don’t think I can handle a group environment right now. I will exhaust all resources available. Yes, I want to feel from her what I once did, but I really do want to be able to be of meaningful support to her.
I could really use some insight, especially from anyone who has had a similar experience -that ended well. My won't talk with me about her meetings, the people in her life now, or what I can do to help her.
Thank you for tolerating this.
bb
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family bb!
Have you considered attending Alanon meetings for yourself here in the states? The meetings are based on the 12 steps and principles of AA. However, they are for the friends and family members of alcoholics, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not.
You will find lots of support and encouragement here as well. Pull up your keyboard and make yourself at home.
Have you considered attending Alanon meetings for yourself here in the states? The meetings are based on the 12 steps and principles of AA. However, they are for the friends and family members of alcoholics, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not.
You will find lots of support and encouragement here as well. Pull up your keyboard and make yourself at home.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
Welcome!
Have you had time to read through the stickied posts at the top of the forum? There is a huge amount of information there - lots of experience to draw on. I'd also recommend getting a copy of Melody Beattie's Co depepndant No More - a book everyone on this site should automatically get when they join!
The more you will read about alcoholism the more you will discover that you didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. This is something your wife has to do on her own - her life depends on it! If she had any other disease, you still wouldn't be able to cure it for her. This doesn't mean you can't cheer her on from the sidelines, however.
I think we miss a lot of the success stories on sites like this because they don't need this site any more. People come and go here (apart from a few very wise souls who stick around to help those of us who are lost!) regularly having found their own way forward.
The best thing you can do to help her is to educate yourself, learn about alcoholism (the book Under the Influence really taught me a lot) and it's sister disease, codependancy.
Stick around, more people will be by soon!
Have you had time to read through the stickied posts at the top of the forum? There is a huge amount of information there - lots of experience to draw on. I'd also recommend getting a copy of Melody Beattie's Co depepndant No More - a book everyone on this site should automatically get when they join!
The more you will read about alcoholism the more you will discover that you didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. This is something your wife has to do on her own - her life depends on it! If she had any other disease, you still wouldn't be able to cure it for her. This doesn't mean you can't cheer her on from the sidelines, however.
I think we miss a lot of the success stories on sites like this because they don't need this site any more. People come and go here (apart from a few very wise souls who stick around to help those of us who are lost!) regularly having found their own way forward.
The best thing you can do to help her is to educate yourself, learn about alcoholism (the book Under the Influence really taught me a lot) and it's sister disease, codependancy.
Stick around, more people will be by soon!
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Hi bremerbua,
I had a RAH ex-bf who I dated for a year. During that time, I went to a lot of AA mtgs with him to be supportive. Met a lot of people struggling, trying to stay sober, at various stages in their recovery.
I am also in al-anon now, because my last 2 bfs were alcoholics and i'm trying to figure out how I kept getting into that situation.
Anyway, here's what I know from my personal experiences, and also from checking out the section of this forum that's specifically for alcoholics (btw, you may want to read some of their posts-it can be enlightening to just spend time with RAHs, and read about their feelings and what they're going through)...your wife is doing what she needs to do.
In AA they tell single people not to get into a rel'ship for, like a year. The reason being is that in a year, a RAH goes through SO many changes. Not only that, staying sober can be hard enough, w/out the pressure a rel'ship brings. If your wife is working the program, and it sounds like she is, then she is simply heeding the teachings of that program, and hopefully that should give you comfort.
Were she to get caught up in your rel'ship again, this could possibly jeopardize her sobriety. I hope you take from this a good sign-she is obviously committed to getting healthy, and that's actually a good thing, even though it may raise a lot of fear for you.
We codependents (cuz anyone involved w/an alcoholic by necessity becomes codependent) can subconsciously feel threatened when our loved one is in recovery. We like to feel needed on a primal level...suddenly, the A learns to stand on their feet...oh no, what if he/she doesn't need me anymore? what if they change so much we can't be together? all kinds of fears crop up.
I think you're doing the right thing, learning about alcoholism as much as you can. I would suggest that just as your wife is now focusing on HER recovery and putting the relationship aside for now, I'd suggest you do the same. Check out al-anon. Maybe even check out CODA. Read Melody Beattie's book, Codependent No More. Maybe even go to an AA meeting-talk to some alcoholics-they are very friendly and open there to "normies" checking them out--that's been my experience anyway.
Keep posting here.
And don't try to extrapolate other people's negative experiences to your rel'ship. Yes, a lot of rel'ships break up when the A goes into recovery, but who knows why-could be they have other things going on you don't-like resentments from cheating, or bad behavior that occurred in active addiction. You just don't know.
I would say, try not to put any pressure on your wife. Let her know you're working on YOU and that you're there for her when she's ready.
I had a RAH ex-bf who I dated for a year. During that time, I went to a lot of AA mtgs with him to be supportive. Met a lot of people struggling, trying to stay sober, at various stages in their recovery.
I am also in al-anon now, because my last 2 bfs were alcoholics and i'm trying to figure out how I kept getting into that situation.
Anyway, here's what I know from my personal experiences, and also from checking out the section of this forum that's specifically for alcoholics (btw, you may want to read some of their posts-it can be enlightening to just spend time with RAHs, and read about their feelings and what they're going through)...your wife is doing what she needs to do.
In AA they tell single people not to get into a rel'ship for, like a year. The reason being is that in a year, a RAH goes through SO many changes. Not only that, staying sober can be hard enough, w/out the pressure a rel'ship brings. If your wife is working the program, and it sounds like she is, then she is simply heeding the teachings of that program, and hopefully that should give you comfort.
Were she to get caught up in your rel'ship again, this could possibly jeopardize her sobriety. I hope you take from this a good sign-she is obviously committed to getting healthy, and that's actually a good thing, even though it may raise a lot of fear for you.
We codependents (cuz anyone involved w/an alcoholic by necessity becomes codependent) can subconsciously feel threatened when our loved one is in recovery. We like to feel needed on a primal level...suddenly, the A learns to stand on their feet...oh no, what if he/she doesn't need me anymore? what if they change so much we can't be together? all kinds of fears crop up.
I think you're doing the right thing, learning about alcoholism as much as you can. I would suggest that just as your wife is now focusing on HER recovery and putting the relationship aside for now, I'd suggest you do the same. Check out al-anon. Maybe even check out CODA. Read Melody Beattie's book, Codependent No More. Maybe even go to an AA meeting-talk to some alcoholics-they are very friendly and open there to "normies" checking them out--that's been my experience anyway.
Keep posting here.
And don't try to extrapolate other people's negative experiences to your rel'ship. Yes, a lot of rel'ships break up when the A goes into recovery, but who knows why-could be they have other things going on you don't-like resentments from cheating, or bad behavior that occurred in active addiction. You just don't know.
I would say, try not to put any pressure on your wife. Let her know you're working on YOU and that you're there for her when she's ready.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southeast, MI
Posts: 17
Thank you -Pelican, Bookwyrm, and Sandrwg.
I've ordered the book and will follow some of your other recommendations.
Sandrawg , -I especially appreciate you sharing your experience and insight.
You stated: "In AA they tell single people not to get into a rel'ship for, like a year. The reason being is that in a year, a RAH goes through SO many changes. Not only that, staying sober can be hard enough, w/out the pressure a rel'ship brings. If your wife is working the program, and it sounds like she is, then she is simply heeding the teachings of that program, and hopefully that should give you comfort."
I take comfort that she is working the program. I find it difficult to take comfort in the fact that she is being encouraged to keep me at arm’s length. We had a deep and loving relationship. It happened. It existed. We were each other's closest confident. We are married.
It is very difficult to accept. I have a lot of work in front of me if I hope to get my arms around this.
I’ve already purposed not to pressure her in anyway. But, now you got me wondering if I should cancel my planned visit in December. I spoke with her before I booked my ticket, specifically to get a sense of whether or not she really wanted to see me. There wasn’t any excitement in her voce about me coming. On the other hand she expressed no hesitation in wanting me to visit. I guess I will let that go for now, unless I get a clear message that it wouldn’t be good for her.
I’m beginning to ramble.
Again, thanks so much to all of you.
bb
I've ordered the book and will follow some of your other recommendations.
Sandrawg , -I especially appreciate you sharing your experience and insight.
You stated: "In AA they tell single people not to get into a rel'ship for, like a year. The reason being is that in a year, a RAH goes through SO many changes. Not only that, staying sober can be hard enough, w/out the pressure a rel'ship brings. If your wife is working the program, and it sounds like she is, then she is simply heeding the teachings of that program, and hopefully that should give you comfort."
I take comfort that she is working the program. I find it difficult to take comfort in the fact that she is being encouraged to keep me at arm’s length. We had a deep and loving relationship. It happened. It existed. We were each other's closest confident. We are married.
It is very difficult to accept. I have a lot of work in front of me if I hope to get my arms around this.
I’ve already purposed not to pressure her in anyway. But, now you got me wondering if I should cancel my planned visit in December. I spoke with her before I booked my ticket, specifically to get a sense of whether or not she really wanted to see me. There wasn’t any excitement in her voce about me coming. On the other hand she expressed no hesitation in wanting me to visit. I guess I will let that go for now, unless I get a clear message that it wouldn’t be good for her.
I’m beginning to ramble.
Again, thanks so much to all of you.
bb
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Hi bremerbua,
Thank you for your post. I am sorry you are going through this right now. All of the prior posts giving you information are good advice. I'm glad you are getting support here and have decided to see a counselor. I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to be in a group setting; I'm the same way by nature.
I do encourage you, though, to try a few Al-Anon meetings. You don't have to say a word. You don't even have to sit next to anyone. Even if you want to sit in a corner and listen, they will understand and will not bother you.
I see that you are hurting and wondering what it is going on with your wife right now. All of us here on SR understand and have been through the same exact things as you. I wish you did not feel shame about wanting to find out more information in order to ease your pain. That is just such a human thing that I don't see why you should feel bad about that.
My only advice for you at this time is to understand that when a person enters Recovery and begins to get sober, it's like the world changes colors. It can feel like you are surrounded by a grey cloud, and life becomes dull. Things that brought you feelings of joy before no longer do. You get depressed. You can be confused for quite some time. It's hard.
So, try not to worry so much about what is going on with your relationship, what is going to happen tomorrow, what to do about the planned trip in December. Just take it one day at a time.
I hope something I have written here is helpful to you.
Thank you for your post. I am sorry you are going through this right now. All of the prior posts giving you information are good advice. I'm glad you are getting support here and have decided to see a counselor. I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to be in a group setting; I'm the same way by nature.
I do encourage you, though, to try a few Al-Anon meetings. You don't have to say a word. You don't even have to sit next to anyone. Even if you want to sit in a corner and listen, they will understand and will not bother you.
I see that you are hurting and wondering what it is going on with your wife right now. All of us here on SR understand and have been through the same exact things as you. I wish you did not feel shame about wanting to find out more information in order to ease your pain. That is just such a human thing that I don't see why you should feel bad about that.
My only advice for you at this time is to understand that when a person enters Recovery and begins to get sober, it's like the world changes colors. It can feel like you are surrounded by a grey cloud, and life becomes dull. Things that brought you feelings of joy before no longer do. You get depressed. You can be confused for quite some time. It's hard.
So, try not to worry so much about what is going on with your relationship, what is going to happen tomorrow, what to do about the planned trip in December. Just take it one day at a time.
I hope something I have written here is helpful to you.
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