Confused
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 63
Confused
I don't know if many of you remember me or anything about my background but I'll give you a brief summary. My husband is an alcoholic and was sober for a year before I married him, then starting (what he calls) "lapsing" every 2-3 mths since we were married. We separated 6mths into our marriage because of his temper (while sober). He was yelling at me every day or every 2nd day and had started using bad language or calling me names, and after hurting me physically one time, I had him leave. I am 31wks pregnant in the meantime, so you can imagine how hard this is.
I have got help for myself: I attend Al-anon, another support group and have individual counselling. I have said to my husband that if he gets help then we can trial him living with me and the baby a few weeks before my due date (and after the baby's born) and if things go well, then we could continue. But I have boundaries set out and written out for the time that he lives with us - whether temporary or permanent. And the condition for him coming back would be to get help.
He says that he doesn't find AA beneficial and the Alcohol Counsellor he saw twice said he was not eligible to be seen by them because he had not recently consumed alcohol (he seemed to forget the last time he had a drink so I'm not sure if he is/is not eligible depending on whether he got his information right). The place that was suggested he go for counselling (because the counsellor felt his biggest issue was his Anxiety) was completely unaffordable for us - we are struggling financially quite a bit. But he only found this out recently. Weeks have gone by before he contacted the alcohol counsellor, and then a few more weeks have gone by before he contacted the next counsellor - and he only did so because I ended up delivering an ultimatum. I said that this had dragged on for months and he still hadn't registered himself into an Anger Management programme and he still hadn't found a counsellor. I said if he hadn't sorted it out by next week there just wouldn't be enough time for him to make any changes that would result in things being different if/when he came back to live with us. (Over the past few months it's like we have been dating but not living together and I started to wonder whether he had been taking it for granted that everything was magically resolved and he would naturally just move back in!)
Well here is where my confusion begins. I asked him yesterday whether he had phoned anyone about counselling, and when he said no I asked him why he hadn't since he had the day off and had spent all of it at home. The result was that he said that he had been trying his best and it was not his fault he wasn't eligible for counselling, that he found it overwhelming trying to find free/affordable counselling and he'd asked for my help and I had been critical (which I hadn't), and how he had been trying really hard to keep his temper and had not lost it with me and how he only had these issues in relation to me and how I never looked at my own problems only his and then went on to say that I hadn't changed and I never would change, and I don't listen to him and I treat him badly and I speak to him badly and so on. And when I said I felt that there were some fundamental things that needed to change - he said that nothing would change if I didn't change. It's the same story that I heard from him when we were living together.
On the one hand it worries me because I feel like he has made no progress at all in terms of insight into his own behaviour. On the other hand, I wonder whether there is some truth in what he is saying - but I struggle to see that I have said or done anything that "treats him badly." I have tried to remain calm with him and stated what I wanted/needed, and have tried not to criticise hiim but to point out his lack of motivation/inactivity (which he seems to see as criticism - he says I don't encourage him or recognize the things he IS trying to do - but I feel like he's trying to do everything except get any help!). He points out how demanding his schedule is with work and studies and how he is "not geared up" for all that activity and pressure (because of his Anxiety Disorder and being on an Invalid's Benefit for that reason etc. etc.) and even though I said to him that I was not the one that had said he must study or work he said that because we were separated and I was living on his Benefit (Government Support), he was forced to work - so again it was all my fault and he was suggesting I was expecting too much of him to also expect him to go to an Anger Management course or counselling - how would he find the time, etc.
I'm sorry for the LOONG story, but I guess what I feel confused about is what part of this is my responsibility? He is almost saying that I'm to blame for everything, or at the very least saying that I'm not taking responsibility for the ways in which I am to blame. But I have been trying (and I KNOW that I have improved) not to criticise or nit-pick or nag or do any of the things I used to do that provoked him - and I apologise to him if I do it. What more can I do than that? I guess I feel some guilt and wondering whether I am doing the right thing again.
He wants to go to marriage counselling which I had arranged but had said to him that I felt there was no point in going if he had not made any effort to work on his own issues (we have had marriage counselling before and it was fruitless - I think in part because my husband just was not really into it except to state the problems he had with me). In the end, we agreed that this morning he would phone around to find a counsellor and book himself on to an Anger Management course and once he had done this, I agreed to make an appointment with the Marriage Counsellor, so I asked him to phone me once he had done that. No phonecall yet - and I am anticipating that I will be let down again - but it was a good outcome of the conversation, except that when I tried to give him a hug, he wasn't interested, and when I questioned him he said that "he was upset with me because of the way I treated him." Again - it confuses me - what have I done that has treated him badly?
I'd really appreciate your feedback and please forgive the novel....
I have got help for myself: I attend Al-anon, another support group and have individual counselling. I have said to my husband that if he gets help then we can trial him living with me and the baby a few weeks before my due date (and after the baby's born) and if things go well, then we could continue. But I have boundaries set out and written out for the time that he lives with us - whether temporary or permanent. And the condition for him coming back would be to get help.
He says that he doesn't find AA beneficial and the Alcohol Counsellor he saw twice said he was not eligible to be seen by them because he had not recently consumed alcohol (he seemed to forget the last time he had a drink so I'm not sure if he is/is not eligible depending on whether he got his information right). The place that was suggested he go for counselling (because the counsellor felt his biggest issue was his Anxiety) was completely unaffordable for us - we are struggling financially quite a bit. But he only found this out recently. Weeks have gone by before he contacted the alcohol counsellor, and then a few more weeks have gone by before he contacted the next counsellor - and he only did so because I ended up delivering an ultimatum. I said that this had dragged on for months and he still hadn't registered himself into an Anger Management programme and he still hadn't found a counsellor. I said if he hadn't sorted it out by next week there just wouldn't be enough time for him to make any changes that would result in things being different if/when he came back to live with us. (Over the past few months it's like we have been dating but not living together and I started to wonder whether he had been taking it for granted that everything was magically resolved and he would naturally just move back in!)
Well here is where my confusion begins. I asked him yesterday whether he had phoned anyone about counselling, and when he said no I asked him why he hadn't since he had the day off and had spent all of it at home. The result was that he said that he had been trying his best and it was not his fault he wasn't eligible for counselling, that he found it overwhelming trying to find free/affordable counselling and he'd asked for my help and I had been critical (which I hadn't), and how he had been trying really hard to keep his temper and had not lost it with me and how he only had these issues in relation to me and how I never looked at my own problems only his and then went on to say that I hadn't changed and I never would change, and I don't listen to him and I treat him badly and I speak to him badly and so on. And when I said I felt that there were some fundamental things that needed to change - he said that nothing would change if I didn't change. It's the same story that I heard from him when we were living together.
On the one hand it worries me because I feel like he has made no progress at all in terms of insight into his own behaviour. On the other hand, I wonder whether there is some truth in what he is saying - but I struggle to see that I have said or done anything that "treats him badly." I have tried to remain calm with him and stated what I wanted/needed, and have tried not to criticise hiim but to point out his lack of motivation/inactivity (which he seems to see as criticism - he says I don't encourage him or recognize the things he IS trying to do - but I feel like he's trying to do everything except get any help!). He points out how demanding his schedule is with work and studies and how he is "not geared up" for all that activity and pressure (because of his Anxiety Disorder and being on an Invalid's Benefit for that reason etc. etc.) and even though I said to him that I was not the one that had said he must study or work he said that because we were separated and I was living on his Benefit (Government Support), he was forced to work - so again it was all my fault and he was suggesting I was expecting too much of him to also expect him to go to an Anger Management course or counselling - how would he find the time, etc.
I'm sorry for the LOONG story, but I guess what I feel confused about is what part of this is my responsibility? He is almost saying that I'm to blame for everything, or at the very least saying that I'm not taking responsibility for the ways in which I am to blame. But I have been trying (and I KNOW that I have improved) not to criticise or nit-pick or nag or do any of the things I used to do that provoked him - and I apologise to him if I do it. What more can I do than that? I guess I feel some guilt and wondering whether I am doing the right thing again.
He wants to go to marriage counselling which I had arranged but had said to him that I felt there was no point in going if he had not made any effort to work on his own issues (we have had marriage counselling before and it was fruitless - I think in part because my husband just was not really into it except to state the problems he had with me). In the end, we agreed that this morning he would phone around to find a counsellor and book himself on to an Anger Management course and once he had done this, I agreed to make an appointment with the Marriage Counsellor, so I asked him to phone me once he had done that. No phonecall yet - and I am anticipating that I will be let down again - but it was a good outcome of the conversation, except that when I tried to give him a hug, he wasn't interested, and when I questioned him he said that "he was upset with me because of the way I treated him." Again - it confuses me - what have I done that has treated him badly?
I'd really appreciate your feedback and please forgive the novel....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Beginner,
Welcome. I hope you will find all the help you need and am very happy you are in Al-Anon and counseling and not isolated with your AH's manipulations, deflections of blame, excuses, and ploys (like marriage counseling...which will protect his drinking, because he is counting on it to be about the relationship, and your flaws as he sees them, not about his full-blown addiction which makes a happy marriage IMPOSSIBLE).
Please do whatever it takes to provide a stable home environment for yourself and your new infant, for the baby needs that so very much. Babies need our full attention, and we become exhausted simply being new mothers, it is 24 hr a day work, and believe me, dear, with an nonrecovering alcoholic in the house, your infant will experience neither a stable home nor a fully attentive mother.
If you are able to live separately from your AH for the next year, I believe it would be best for the entire family. Your counselor can help you with looking at that possibility.
My guess is that even if your AH stays in the home after the infant is born, he is likely to leave both you and the baby. Alcoholics hate being second.
Your child desperately needs you to put the child's needs first.....if you will not do that, who will?
Let your husband be an adult MAN, stand on his own two feet, and either commit to recovery or not, his choice. In the meantime, you have a mission to fulfill: that of being a devoted, strong and protective mother to your innocent child.
More here will have helpful feedback for you. I'm glad you reached out.
Bluejay
Welcome. I hope you will find all the help you need and am very happy you are in Al-Anon and counseling and not isolated with your AH's manipulations, deflections of blame, excuses, and ploys (like marriage counseling...which will protect his drinking, because he is counting on it to be about the relationship, and your flaws as he sees them, not about his full-blown addiction which makes a happy marriage IMPOSSIBLE).
Please do whatever it takes to provide a stable home environment for yourself and your new infant, for the baby needs that so very much. Babies need our full attention, and we become exhausted simply being new mothers, it is 24 hr a day work, and believe me, dear, with an nonrecovering alcoholic in the house, your infant will experience neither a stable home nor a fully attentive mother.
If you are able to live separately from your AH for the next year, I believe it would be best for the entire family. Your counselor can help you with looking at that possibility.
My guess is that even if your AH stays in the home after the infant is born, he is likely to leave both you and the baby. Alcoholics hate being second.
Your child desperately needs you to put the child's needs first.....if you will not do that, who will?
Let your husband be an adult MAN, stand on his own two feet, and either commit to recovery or not, his choice. In the meantime, you have a mission to fulfill: that of being a devoted, strong and protective mother to your innocent child.
More here will have helpful feedback for you. I'm glad you reached out.
Bluejay
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I remember you-I think I even read your blog. Alcoholics are great at trying to turn things around on us...blame us for the problems in our relationships...blame us for their drinking....refuse to accept responsibility...this is all part of their denial and an obfuscation to deal with their guilt. An active alcoholic needs to protect their drinking at all costs, remember that.
Also remember:
you didn't cause it
you can't control it
you can't cure it.
Also remember:
you didn't cause it
you can't control it
you can't cure it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Beginner,
I can relate to your story. My AH found all kinds of excuses as to why he couldn't get help for his drinking and abusive behaviour or why he was dragging it out. He blamed me for being critical of him (because I wouldn't accept his unacceptable behaviour). I was careful to speak to him respectfully even though he wasn't with me. When I did make changes to my own behaviour, he refused to recognize it. In short, he didn't really want to work on changing his behavior although he tried to do the bare minimum to try to maintain the marriage. In the end, it simply wasn't enough and we are now in the early stages of the separation process after 25 years of marriage and three kids.
It doesn't sound to me like your husband is motivated to change, preferring instead to shift the focus back to you.
I think you're on the right path. Your unborn child deserves to be raised in a healthy environment.
I can relate to your story. My AH found all kinds of excuses as to why he couldn't get help for his drinking and abusive behaviour or why he was dragging it out. He blamed me for being critical of him (because I wouldn't accept his unacceptable behaviour). I was careful to speak to him respectfully even though he wasn't with me. When I did make changes to my own behaviour, he refused to recognize it. In short, he didn't really want to work on changing his behavior although he tried to do the bare minimum to try to maintain the marriage. In the end, it simply wasn't enough and we are now in the early stages of the separation process after 25 years of marriage and three kids.
It doesn't sound to me like your husband is motivated to change, preferring instead to shift the focus back to you.
I think you're on the right path. Your unborn child deserves to be raised in a healthy environment.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
He's quacking.
What you have done to him, is attempt to treat him like an adult...and hold him accountable for his part of your relationship.
Until he's not drinking and until he's ready to start working on himself, it's fruitless.
He doesn't need expensive counseling to begin working on him. There are thousands of books out there for alcoholics, thousands of programs out there, thousands of resources online. But the poor baby either doesn't like the options, or (amazingly enough) can't get help from where he wants it.
Now, that said - there isn't a dratted thing you can do for him. So, what are you doing to get ready for that wonderful baby? The last thing that precious child needs is a Mommy who is busy worrying what an immature drunk is thinking.
Start stock piling diapers would be my suggestion
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 63
Thank you for your replies. Certainly some wise words in there! Since I last wrote, my husband has "booked" himself onto an Anger Management course and has made a lot of effort to find a counsellor that is affordable - with no luck. However, he has still not filled out the forms for the Anger Management course - so his commitment to this remains to be seen (it starts in October).
I also went into hospital with symptoms of pre-eclampsia. Fortunately, it turned out not to be pre-eclampsia, but I am still showing signs that I could go there, as I still have high blood pressure which they will have to monitor and may end up inducing me early etc. Of course, I need to rest more, and I'm sure the fact that I have NO support and living on my own and having to do everything myself (despite how much I now struggle because I'm so big and heavy and tired).... contributed to my ending up in hospital last night.
Having seen him make at least some effort to get help, I said to my husband today that I thought he should move back in just to help me out around the place because of my health problems, which of course he was more than happy about. But then tonight, I got a phonecall from him angry about someone from church who had offered to help him (he didn't like the way they spoke to him) and because I suggested that perhaps he might have misread the person (I was also worried he would turn away the only help and support he has got which has been from two people at our church), he got angry with me. Next thing he was telling me that our marriage problems were mostly my fault and I didn't acknowledge that I had any problems, and the help I sought (Al-anon, counselling, support group I go to) was all about me not about the things I needed to work on and that basically he really resented me pushing him to get help.
With his attitude clear and his lack of insight into what HE contributes to our marriage problems (and the significance of them - because he downplays his contribution, and magnifies mine) I said to him that he should NOT move in. Today when I said I was nervous about him moving back in, he was saying to me that he would not argue with me, would not shout at me, and would not cause me any stress because he's well aware of the condition of my health and the affect that could have on me and the baby. Then the same evening, he's on the phone blaming and accusing me literally 24hrs after I'd been in/come out of hospital!!!
I am devastated. Apart from hope of reconciliation seemingly going up in smoke before my eyes, I still have NO support (no family support, nothing) - particularly practical support - and I am worried about my health and trying to manage on my own and also worried about going into labour and bringing home a newborn baby and coping with it all on my own.
I also went into hospital with symptoms of pre-eclampsia. Fortunately, it turned out not to be pre-eclampsia, but I am still showing signs that I could go there, as I still have high blood pressure which they will have to monitor and may end up inducing me early etc. Of course, I need to rest more, and I'm sure the fact that I have NO support and living on my own and having to do everything myself (despite how much I now struggle because I'm so big and heavy and tired).... contributed to my ending up in hospital last night.
Having seen him make at least some effort to get help, I said to my husband today that I thought he should move back in just to help me out around the place because of my health problems, which of course he was more than happy about. But then tonight, I got a phonecall from him angry about someone from church who had offered to help him (he didn't like the way they spoke to him) and because I suggested that perhaps he might have misread the person (I was also worried he would turn away the only help and support he has got which has been from two people at our church), he got angry with me. Next thing he was telling me that our marriage problems were mostly my fault and I didn't acknowledge that I had any problems, and the help I sought (Al-anon, counselling, support group I go to) was all about me not about the things I needed to work on and that basically he really resented me pushing him to get help.
With his attitude clear and his lack of insight into what HE contributes to our marriage problems (and the significance of them - because he downplays his contribution, and magnifies mine) I said to him that he should NOT move in. Today when I said I was nervous about him moving back in, he was saying to me that he would not argue with me, would not shout at me, and would not cause me any stress because he's well aware of the condition of my health and the affect that could have on me and the baby. Then the same evening, he's on the phone blaming and accusing me literally 24hrs after I'd been in/come out of hospital!!!
I am devastated. Apart from hope of reconciliation seemingly going up in smoke before my eyes, I still have NO support (no family support, nothing) - particularly practical support - and I am worried about my health and trying to manage on my own and also worried about going into labour and bringing home a newborn baby and coping with it all on my own.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Indeed! From what i've seen on this forum, living w/an alcoholic is like living with a child. Plus, the added frustration of the PROMISES of help or support that never manifest.
Living with one sounds like twice the work to me! I think Beginner is better off. I'd set firm boundaries with him. "If you don't follow through on the anger mgmt and working a program, you can't move back in."
This is to protect both you and your unborn child. You woldn't believe the stories I read up here about people complaining cuz their alcoholic husband endangered their children, and I mean by doing stupid things while drunk, not just the emotional endangerment that comes along with all that, and the possiibility of heaping issues on these poor kids for life.
Living with one sounds like twice the work to me! I think Beginner is better off. I'd set firm boundaries with him. "If you don't follow through on the anger mgmt and working a program, you can't move back in."
This is to protect both you and your unborn child. You woldn't believe the stories I read up here about people complaining cuz their alcoholic husband endangered their children, and I mean by doing stupid things while drunk, not just the emotional endangerment that comes along with all that, and the possiibility of heaping issues on these poor kids for life.
Originally Posted by Still Waters 
His support, at this point, is worse than none beginner. It's impossible to have a calm serene home life for most of us, while living with an active alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by beginner
- particularly practical support - and I am worried about my health and trying to manage on my own and also worried about going into labour and bringing home a newborn baby and coping with it all on my own.
What about that same church?
There must be a woman or two who have had children and can be of some practical support. Ask them ... the only thing they can say is no.
Even a "grandma" ... you don't forget what to do.
What about a local midwife? nurse from the hospital?
Find people who will go to the hospital with you and drop by even for an hour for the first week after you have the baby.
Also, I have two children.
I will tell you that even "supportive husbands" are not much use during labor or when you first get home especially if you choose to nurse. (no offense to the good men/dads out there but realistically there is only so much you can do in terms of the physical aspect of it)
You can do it on your own if you have to. It will be hard because I know you are scared, but it is absolutely doable.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
Oh, I wish I were there to give you a hug. Being in late pregnancy is difficult enough (I have 2 kids) without a man acting like a child.
You mentioned someone from the church willing to help him. How about opening up to your church about your situation so they can help YOU? I know if a woman in my church was in your shoes I would help in an instant.
I did not realize until I had my first that in my community there are lots of people giving away baby stuff. They pass it on and I'm sure that happens where you are too....
You mentioned someone from the church willing to help him. How about opening up to your church about your situation so they can help YOU? I know if a woman in my church was in your shoes I would help in an instant.
I did not realize until I had my first that in my community there are lots of people giving away baby stuff. They pass it on and I'm sure that happens where you are too....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 63
Thanks everyone. Yes I have been given quite a few baby things by kind people, so that side of things has been sorted really. I have opened up to my church months ago, but unfortunately they have been trying to help my husband and I haven't had any visits or phonecalls until Sunday when my husband told the pastor that I am very isolated and unwell with my health and could do with a visit etc. Ironic isn't it that it takes my husband to alert them to it!! I have literally spoken to every person I know about what I need, so now it is up to them to help or not.
I have also advertised for someone to come and help around the house and with childcare in exchange for free board and accommodation. No response yet but hopefully something turns up. I'm doing the best I can! But I feel a bit disappointed and very overwhelmed with everything. I was up till 2:30am last night because I couldn't sleep - feeling so anxious and uncomfortable.
I have also advertised for someone to come and help around the house and with childcare in exchange for free board and accommodation. No response yet but hopefully something turns up. I'm doing the best I can! But I feel a bit disappointed and very overwhelmed with everything. I was up till 2:30am last night because I couldn't sleep - feeling so anxious and uncomfortable.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
I'm sending a prayer to NZ, beginner, for some new angels to walk into your life. I know they are there. Many of us have been all alone with infants, and somehow, people show up and help happens. You are making good choices. Try to stay calm for the baby. We are always here to listen. xx
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