sesh

and I do that much better when writting here than staring at the ceiling of my bedroom,...
I've been writting in another thread (I don't know if I should have written this there too, I don't know how does this work) that I've asked my AH to leave nearly 3 weeks ago, and he did, without a word. I've been waiting to feel a bit better before we tell the kids (11 and 6), so I can care for them properly, during this time my 11 year old was mostly staying at my mum's, never said anything so I figured she didn't even notice.

we were going to tell the kids tomorrow, I agreed with my AH to do so, as the school is starting in a week, so I wanted to give them some time. But tonight our daughter said she spoke to my AH and agreed to see he him tomorrow. She said it in a way I could see she was reaching out and wanted to have a conversation. So I said:
- So you know he's not here anymore?
She: yeah
I: so how do you feel about it?
She: it's same really.
I: What do you mean?
She: He was only here to sleep over and sometimes for lunch. So it makes no difference.

It broke my heart.

We had a long conversation afterwards, and I told her that dad and I don't get along anymore, how we have different ideas of what life should be, never said anything about his drinking, as I would have to explain it all and how can you tell to a 11 year old: Your daddy will die if he continues to drink (that's what his doctor have said in regards of his liver damage), but he still does it anyhow., when I'm 37 and can't put my mind around it.

I explained that she must let herself know how she feels about it, and show her emotions, and we can talk about it whenever she feels like it. She was crying and said: Mum, I'm a big girl, I understand everything.
I told her we both love her very much and she said she knows that too. She said she understands and supports me, so I asked her does that make her feel angry with her dad.
She said no, just very sad.

She also said she thinks we shouldn't be telling anything to her brother as he is too young to understand.

This was the hardest thing I ever did in my entire life. I just can't stop crying.
How can he put us through this? How can he hurt us this much?

Never felt so helpless as tonight hugging her while she was crying. I felt like by saying this I broke my baby girl. The damage this might cause in her soul. She just looked so grown up and hurt. I can hardly breath...

And still I have no idea what to do with my son, what to tell him, how to tell him, he's only six.

I'm not questioning my decision re: leaving him, but watching my kids go through this is just unbearable...

sclarke64448

Dear Sesh

My heart goes out to you. It's difficult enough for adults like you and me to cope, let alone two very young children. ((((Hug)))) xxx

wanting

I'm sorry for your pain.

You know, I don't believe that we need to create the fantasy that there isn't a reason for the A moving out. I actually think it does a disservice to shield kids so much from the truth. They should always be told that both parents love them very much, but I think they should know when a parent is making bad decisions. Why should they have to grow up confused about love and marriage and addiction? Wouldn't we tell our kids if Daddy had cancer? Maybe you wouldn't say he's going to die, but you'd say he was sick. I feel like I have a responsibility to teach my kids right from wrong. They know something is wrong, and that people are lying to them or avoiding the topic. Isn't that insulting and doesn't it rob them of an opportunity to learn about important stuff?

Pelican

Honey I'm sorry you are hurting. I know that you love your children and are doing what is best for them and yourself. You have had to make some tough decisions.

Yet, you sound like you are doubting yourself and feeling guilty for your daughter's sadness. You do not own that guilt. Please do not pick it up:
Never felt so helpless as tonight hugging her while she was crying. I felt like by saying this I broke my baby girl. The damage this might cause in her soul

You did not cause her father's addiction
You could not control her father's addiction
You can not cure her father's addiction

His addiction to alcohol is what broke the relationship. You gave and gave and gave. You finally realized you were not giving your children what they deserved because you were focusing all your attention on the alcoholic.

This is from your post of 8-28-09:

So sorry to hear what you are going though. Change few details and your story is mine, as all our stories are same in the essence.
For me the breaking point was when it suddenly downed to me that I really turned into studip person, and spent my time analyzing his behavior, and hoping he'd change, and he'd finally see it, and miracously become that person I've married 11 years ago, while I did nothing for myself, and nothing for my kids which is far worse. wasn't it bad enough they have one parent who's not responsible and drinking, and never there, do they really need a mother who is miserable all the time, crying, living the day with an effort to breath? What am I teaching them? What kind of life am I enabling them for? What kind of people will they become growing up like this?
And that was my braking point. I've realized I'm only responsible for myself and my kids!!!
And if not for my own sake than I have to do some serious changes for them, as by allowing this lifestyle am I as bad parent as he is.
For me than the only option was to ask him to leave, which he did (17 days ago) without a word. We spoke few times since, and all I hear from him is the same old stories: he is sorry, I deserve better. Why? he can't really elaborate on that...
But you know what nothing he says anymore matters, as I realized it doesn't really mean anything - I'm looking at my life as it is happening to someone else (takes an effort, but I'm getting better) and I can see things for what they are...
I know now my problem was making excuses for him, wanting the marriage to last: but it takes two for a marriage to work.
And also everything I did before, every single action I did was done to provoke a response from him, to make him realize... And than I realized: Is this really all I am and all I can be???

I kicked myself in the a**, and took the responsibility for my own actions and responsibilities, and he left. And it is hard, harder than I can begin to explain, but at least I'm finally honest with myself, I'm a person I deserve respect...

Saying all this I'm not telling you to leave him or to stay, I'm just asking you to try have an honest conversation with yourself, about you and your kids (after all that's all your responsible for), without getting into emotions, just sticking to the facts: his actions and your actions, without excuses for any of you ( no more yes, but...)... I did say at the beginning all our stories are same, but we are all different people. This has worked for me, so feeling your hurt, I wanted to share it, hoping it could help you at least a little bit...

And re: his trowing your love into trash... I've been asking myself the same thing too many times, and than it hit me: who cares!!! He most certanly doesn't, or at least not enough (which is same thing)... I want to be a grownup independant person, and not spend my time crying: he doesn't love me.... Regardless of whether he loves me or not he is not good husband!!! And that's were the story ends for me. It is always that simple then we think of somone else's life, now i'm trying to use some of that wisdom into my own...

Sorry if this seems harsh to you...


You are a loving mother. You are doing the best you can today. You will do the best you can tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day.

We'll be here supporting you.

Peace and hugs

TakingCharge999

sesh I hope you keep close to your dear daughter so you both insist on the 3 Cs, over and over and over again...

after my parents' divorce my mom took me to a psychologist and it helped... have you considering taking your daughter to one? well that is what i would do...

i also don't understand how they can be so cruel.. and for what? anyhow i am glad the kids got a wonderful Mom that will see to their health... so i am not worried.. i know they will be OK as they get older and understand more and more.

(((((((((BEAR HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR KIDS))))))))))))

isurvived

Things will get better. Kids are very resilient. IF there is a happy home, a loving and confident, happy, nurturing parent (YOU) - they'll be fine. Spend extra time with them, do some fun things together that you haven't been able to do - this will help all of you.

above all, be grateful that you made the right decision. Gratefulness can go a long way to leading you to healing and your recovery.

sesh

Thank you all for reminding me I'm doing a right thing. I really needed to hear that again. I wasn't daubting my decision, but I'm getting into control and guilt again...

The reason I didn't told my daughter about alcoholism is that he doesn't admit to it, he doens't even admit to driniking at all, so for the fear she might end up very confused with one parent telling her one thing and the other one something completly different, I told her all my reasons: him never being there, and that not being something father should do, me not wanting them to grow up thinking that is ok and acceptable, the proper role of husband and father in someone's life, so basically everything that is wrong except what is causing it.

Of course I want her to know that too, but in due time, as saying everything at once would feel like a dropping a bomb on her. And most of all I didn't want her confused and caught in the middle of what I say and what he says.

Still I couldn't sleep at all last night, I was kind of expecting to feel a bit better each new day, but I just keep feeling worse. I know at some point that will change, but right now it is very, very hard.

This morning AH phoned and asked if I could give him some money to pay for a studio flat he found for himself. Until now he was staying with a friend. The fact he found himself a flat without even trying to fight back for his family made me sooo .... I can't even name all those emotions. I mean I don't want him back, but he didn't even try to come back, to fight for it, he didn't even give me that much. I mean what was this marriage than? What did I spend last 11 years doing? I said I can't cope with this any more, he said ok, got himself a flat and got on with his life... I never even considered he cared so little for me (kids too?) that he can walk away so easily. I mean someone would put more fight in after loosing a crapy job, than he did for his family. What world was I living in for the past 11 years? How could I not see this? I always thought he loved us, but can't help himself with his drinking, but now...

And re: money, I didn't give it to him. I asked him how he can even ask me that, how he can expect anything from me when he gives nothing in return, never even tried to fight for us. He said well you don't want me there. I told him that's the most stupid excuse I've ever heard, as he very well knows why that is so, and he can play stupid to someone else, and also I told him he is not pinning this on me. It is his choices that finished our marriage, it is his inability to admit to himself having a problem, which is very sad as everyone in this town, including his drinking buddies, knows he has problem, so he can continue to BS himself but not me any more. And I told him what our daughter said last night and ask him: How about that as a wake up call? Dosn't it make loud ringing sound in your head?
He said nothing. I acctually asked him: do have anything to say to all this, and he said: nothing!
I know I shouldn't get so upset re: what he does, or better to say what he doesn't do, but I can't help feeling so betrayed, and it is so hard to face the fact: to him I don't count for nothing. It's like he doesn't even aknowledge my existance. I know I should let go of this, I made my decision, and I'm not changing it, but still come on!!! It's like he never even really wanted to be here, like he stayed for my sake, how could I be so delusional and not see this???

Even thought I know the answer to this one, I still have this need to shout: What the f*** is wrong with him?
Or maybe I should better ask myself What the f*** was wrong with me...

I am so angry, which I guess is better than being sad, as my head hurts so much from all this crying.

Pelican

You are grieving the loss of the relationship. Your relationship and your children's relationship. The emotions you are feeling are natural.

The primary stages of grieving are: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

I will pass on to you the advise my friend gave me when I began to grieve the loss of my marriage: allow yourself to fully experience each and every emotion (don't hide your depression, don't suppress your anger, etc...). Also, if you get stuck in one emotion, please get help.

That last part, don't get stuck in an emotion - get help. Had me laughing through my tears! I said: "But of course, I don't want to get stuck in my depression when I have anger and loss still lurking around the corner!"

It was all part of the process. I'm glad I had help of friends, Alanon and SR to get me through the stages. Please get help when and where you need, and know that you are not alone!

sesh

Thank you so much Pelican, all you guys are saying to me is really helping. I feel like I'm getting a bit addicted to SR.

You are right I should allow myself to fully expirience my emotions. I know that is a path to recovery. And one day I will wake up not thinking about this mess, and eventually I will think about it only occasionaly. Just the idea of that day makes me smile.

And I'm also realized something else too: I'm learning so much when adressing other people's problems here than when whining about my own. As when thinking about someone else my judgment doesn't get clouded by emotions, and that is bringing me back to myself, the person I am, the things I find acceptable and the ones I don't.

Reading about ellima01 problem's in thread Trying to have a nice nite, made me remember something from my childhood, the girl I used to be, and I realized I still have her in me, and that really made me feel good about myself, and convinced me even more that I can do this.

I'm getting myself off the floor and moving forward. Baby steps yes, but I will make it!!!

Still Waters

Kids are very resilient, very. Pretty soon they'll be figuring out how to capitalize on all this to get the most out of Christmas.

sesh

I sincerelly hope so. But right now it is hard. My kids act kind of normal, but I can see they're trying hard to cope with it.
Yesterday I spoke to my daughter, and I told her how when I was her age I felt really ashamed of my AF spending all day long in a pub ( didn't say he was drinking I just said he was in a pub). She started to cry and said she feels the same. She also said some friends of her asked her about it, and she said she had to lie and say he doesn't. I told her I know all too well how she feels, as I've been through same stuff when her age, I'd do anything to make that go away but I can't. I said sometimes people hurt others even if they don't mean to, and sometimes people can help themselves in things they do. This happens often in life, and I'm sorry she had to learn this at such an early age.
I feel very bad about this, but I know there is nothing more I can do, just give her support and understanding, as well as try to think about my experiences when I was her age and try to speak to her about it, as I can see she is confused about her emotions and finds it difficult to speak about it.
In the same time my 6 year old son is angry with me. He doesn't so much act like it, but he's told me he is. He didn't want to talk more about it, so I just told him that is ok, and he has a right to feel any way he feels, and that I love him. I don't really know what to do about him, try speaking about it or not? I'd really appreciate any advice on this one.

As I'm writtin this, they are coloring in the dinning room, and my son asked my daugher if she would like to have one more dad. She said no.

But the fact he would even think about something like that is making me cry. What is going on in his little head? I dind't say anyting, should I have?
Do you think it be a good idea to take him to child psihologist, or maybe wait a bit longer for his feelings to settle as all this is very fresh?

I believe I'm doing good with my daughter, but I'm very worried about my son. I expected it to be other way around.
Please advise.
Thanks

Cowgirl1265

Sesh, sorry you are hurting so much right now. I know it is hard.

I think the most important thing you can do for your kids is to acknowledge their feelings, and make sure they know that you are available to listen to them any time. Remember that you cannot fix this for them, they will have to explore their feelings and learn how to deal with them. You have a very important job in being a supportive (not codpendent) parent, giving them love and room to talk out their feelings. Therapy might not be a bad idea, it would give the kids the opportunity to talk to a skilled professional who will be able to draw out things in a helpful way.

My kids are each struggling with the separation. I have been making sure they can talk to their dad whenever they want to and they are seeing him at least for a little while almost every day. It helps them to understand that he is not completely gone from their lives.

**********{hugs to you}}}}}}

sesh

Thanks.
It's been very hard with my son today. I could see he was very angry and didn't know how to deal with it. So I asked him to come to bed with me so we can caddle. he was jumping up and down and at some point started hitting me and than started to cry and wanted to run away from me. I held him tight saying I love him, and he got into this fit, crying hystricly and calling, screaming: Dad. Constantly for 15 minutes. I've never heard such a cry in my life. My daughter came and she was crying too, we were both stroking his hair and saying we love him. I said I'll always be there and he shouldn't be afraid, I'll never leave him. At some point he calmed down, and pretended to be asleep, a bit later he acted like we woke up and don't remember any of it.
Later I asked, since I'm taking them for a few days trip tomorrow, if they'd like seeing their dad this afternoon, as we'll be away and they won't be able to see him. Daughter said yes, son said no. Asked him why not. He said he's angry with him and don't want to see him. I asked why. He said because dad dosn't want to come home.
I explained I'm the one who has asked dad not to come any more. Son said that's because dad was never home anyways.

Later on son was playing with his little cousin and said to her: you know what's new? Mum will never go anywhere, she'll never leave us. She loves us.

He follows me everywhere, even when I go to the toilet, he's standing in front of the door.

I told my Ah all this, he spoke to son on the phone, but son still refused to meet him, said he's busy doing something.

Sorry I'm talking so much about it, but it helps me put my mind in order. Kind of.

It is pretty obvious to all of you how much is hurting me to see my kids go through this. I made sure my Ah knows everything that is going on with kids, as that is his responsibility too, and I know he loves them, and yet he's not taking responsibility for any of it. What kind of man is that? Knowing your children are being hurt because of you and still do nothing to change it? Don't even attempt to?

I hope I will forgive him for everything he has done to me, so I can continue with my life, but as long as I shall live I will never ever forgive him for making our children go through this, even if by some magic he changes his way this instant. And I don't care about alcoholism being a desease, and I don't care about him not being able to help himself, or any of it. he's an adult, he should now better.

maybe you think this is a bit too much, but from the bottom of my heart I believe if you commit to having a child, you are commiting yourself to even give up your own life, literary, to save thiers.
And yet this man I've spent last 11 years of my life with, doesn't even try to stop drinking for his children sake.

I've never been so angry in my life. And I understand that is part of my recovery, but my children are too young for having to recover from anything. He had no right to hurt them this way. I know I'm being over the top now, and that is probably anger speaking, but I'd have him in prison for his. People go to prison for stealing something, and yet are not liable for causing this kind of emotional pain on thier children. Isn't this a bigger crime? What kind of world we live in?

The way I'm going with this, I better stop writting, or you'll all think I'm totally insane.

Jadmack25

No my dear sesh, not insane, just hurt, bewildered, and angry. You the lioness wanting to defend her cubs from being hurt. Of course you are angry that they ARE hurt, and specially because that pain is caused by the very person who should be helping to defend them from harm: their father.

Trust me, addiction is a brutal enemy and kills relationships by it's poisonous control over the addicts mind and body. Until he truly faces his own crisis, I fear that your kids will have a dad who is one in name only, and both you and they will have times when this causes yet more pain for you.
Unless you can, step by step, learn to accept that he will continue to leave responsibility for the family in your hands, let you all down often, and try to upset your applecart, you will stay angry and become resentful and bitter. He won't feel a thing, or care anyway, but you will hate what you have become, and your kids will not enjoy life with this strain and stress.

You get to enjoy your kids and know that you love them enough to devote yourself to them, he on the other hand will miss that, and one day may have the feeling of that loss to face up to.



The only thing I can

sesh

Thanks Jadmack,
I've been thinking for few days about what you said: making sure not to stay angry and resentful and bitter, but with the feelings I have now, I can't see myself ever getting beyond that. I still ask myself all the wrong questions: doesn't he love us, and if he does how could he do this to us,... And I feel very bad, as doing this for my kids benefit, as well as my own, I still can't give my kids what I'm supposed to, I still walk around the house miserable all the time, still cry a lot, can't pull myself together and be mum they deserve to have... My Ah takes kids out every day for few hours, they go to park and do fun staff (he seems like he's not drinking at all, there is no that smell around him any more) and I am happy for my kids enjoying time with him, and that they know he hasn't abandoned them, but in the same time I feel very bad that now he is this person they have fun with for a couple of hours each day, while I'm still miserable, depressed one, and even if not that, still the one who isn't about fun all time, but about making them do things they don't feel like doing (homework, tiding thier room, etc.)... It feels like I've taken upon me yet another responsibility that he should shared with me... Also, it is killing me my kids have to watch what a mess I am, and still I can't do anything about it, instead of making some changes I just cry some more...

I spoke to my AH last night, acctually I phoned him at 1:00 am, after crying for few hours, to ask him yet another time how could he have done this to us?
I mean what is wrong with me? How could I really be this stupid? Like I don't allready know the answer to all questions I keep asking him.

He said he loves us all very much, and all this is hurting him too, and acctually asked me what I want him to do. Even thought I believe that one is pretty obvious I did say again I want him not to drink ever again. He said he can't promiss me that, as if he does he might be lying.
And than he said everything will be ok, I just need to have faith in him and give him some more time.
He didn't elaborate on any of this.

And here I am again, thinking about what he does, and what he says, begining to think again: maybe, this time, and maybe he really means it (means what he didn't even promise anything!!), ... and I know better, but still I'm letting myself be caught into all this again, and all my reasons are becoming vague again, which is making me feel like a faliure again, and I know if he was just to say he'd stop drinking I'd have him back in an instant, and I know that is so stupid of me, but I miss him, that person he's used to be, the person he is when not drinking... and it's making me sick how weak I am, when I know better, I'm reminding myself of the responsibility I have for my kids and my own well-being... and yet here I am admitting to myself it'd take only one word from him for me to have him back, and trust him again, and expose myself to more pain again, but one word he is not likely to utter...
Just keep asking myself: What is wrong with you? Why are you so needy? Is this all you think you are, not being able to cope without him? Am I this addicted to suffering? Why can't I let go, and be happy normal person for my kids?


It feels like I'm losing my mind.
Please help

bluejay6

Oh sesh,
I am so sorry for you and your children. I agree with the above that counseling for your children would make an enormous difference (I sent my 7 year old to counseling for a year after a divorce from an A many years ago) because an authority figure is somehow better able to get clear information to them that you just can't. Plus they are taking care of your feelings (no matter even if you tell them not to) and they will be unable to really hear what they need to know and unable to really express what they feel (about both father and mother). The kindest thing you can do for your children in grief and confusion is get someone skilled in child counseling (esp one with experience in alcoholic families) to treat them.

I have read on this forum occasionally some opinions that the children should be told their alcoholic parent is "sick."

Personally, I would not do this, because "sick" means that one then has a responsibility to "provide care" to the sick person, and if "sick daddy" is told to leave the house because mommy wants a divorce, I have to wonder how that translates in the child's head. And if "sick daddy" subsequently dies, then the child REALLY has terrible feelings of responsibility (and anger) that overwhelm.

If your children are aware that their father drinks too much and it changes his behavior and the way he treats others, then that simple fact is the one you can cite for the separation. Daddy drinks too much and it causes too many problems that we can't fix. The children then say, "Why won't Daddy just stop drinking?"

I'm sure many have opinions on how to answer this. But my answer would be--and was-- "Because he doesn't want to. And I can't make him do what he doesn't want to do."

As for reassuring children that their alcoholic father or mother still loves them very much:
I am of a different opinion on that as well. The addict's actions do not speak love. Therefore the child knows that somewhere in all this there is a lie. And that really messes up a child's head.

You can only speak for YOUR love, not the addict's, in my opinion. You just can't make what is true be untrue, and what is true is that the child has been abandoned by an addict parent.

If the child asks "Does daddy still love me?" By all means answer yes. But in my opinion, following with, " But as long as he drinks, he won't always act loving."

For their trauma, the children deserve professional help. Both children.

You will get through everything, your communication and trust with your children will become healthy and strong, providing you do not try to deal with this alone.

All the very best.
Bluejay

BrandiSue

It breaks my heart reading your posts. When i go back a year or so on this forum and read my old posts, I was pretty much feeling "insane" too. Dealing with an alcoholic will make you totally believe you are losing your mind!

Once I was finally able to remove myself from the situation, my life changed totally and a sense of serenity came upon me. I still have my days and probably will for a very long time, but things are better!!

I hate what is happening to you and your children. You WILL be ok. I would advise therapy for all of you if you are able to do that. If you have a clergy you can even talk to them. That helped me quite a bit and was free.

Bless your heart though. I think venting here does help. Lord only knows I've done it many many times here.

Hugs to you and your children....

NoelleR

I'm going try to make this short. I always hesitate when threads have to do with parents with their children---how to tell them what's going on; what to tell them.....The reason I hesitate is that I have no children, and therefore no direct experience in this situation.....at least from the parents point of view, and I'm often told to keep out of these convo's for just this reason.....but who knows.....perhaps my perception of looking outside the box may be of some help.

One thing I know to be true, and one doesn't need to be a parent to know this.....: we, as adults, heck, as a society (en toto), have a tendency to underestimate our children---their reasoning and understanding and their perception.

You've been given some great insights here, and some great suggestions. I am one of those who believes in telling children the truth regarding whatever is happening (using age-appropriate language, etc., of course).....As to suggestions as to how or when to do this.....I don't have a clue.....BUT, I'm sure there are lots of books, and/or pamphlets, and/or......'?' Again, I'm at a loss as to where one might find such literature, but perhaps giving your local Alanon a call and asking them for suggestions (or Alateen, or Alatot, if these are available in your area).....You could also search the net; this might take some time culling through lots and lots of 'off-point' stuff, but I'm sure there's stuff out there that is absolutely on-point, and will help you.

I wish you all the best.....for yourself, for your children, and yes, even for your AH, hoping that he may see the truth about his life in time to save it..... (o:


NoelleR