aboutdone

So its a long story, but the short of it is, RAH got a loan today to pay my atty and gave me $300 to buy my kids school clothes. I almost fell over. He actually did what he said he was going to do. We have had a few arguments over it, but still. WOW. Think he just did it, cuz he thinks maybe I will change my mind about divorce. I'm not.

Anyways, I get home tonight from taking teen daughter shopping, and ask how his night was? He says ok. He stayed home with the baby even, so teen and I could have just girl time.

I asked if he went to AA, did his online support stuff, basically for lack of anything else to talk about. He said no/no. Said he was online JUST to try to figure out why his sim in phone isnt working. I asked if he checked his facebook acct, as 3 of his children that are long distance are on there, and I thought maybe he would engage in conversation about his children, our daughters siblings. He stated no. He didn't do anything online other than go to the phone website.

So, he goes to bed, starts snoring almost immediately. I come check the email, and then look up some other stuff, and decide to check history on the pc, cuz I cleared it all before I left. Simply because there are some other boundaries I think he is breaking, and I just have to know in my mind/heart that he is, before I call him on it.

And sure enough, he checked his email, AND his facebook. Now seriously. When I ask you straight out, no confrontation, for no other reason but to conversate and you LIE? And that is the boundary I told him not to cross.

Geez!!

Do you know how I know when my RAH is lying? His lips are moving.

Just wanted to vent. Will be addressing this with him tomorrow, calmly after I sleep on it.

aboutdone

Of forgot to mention, he left his card sitting out right next to the PC that he got from a female he met in treatment, asking him to email her, and her email address is in the card.

I met her, and she is truly awesome. I am not one bit jealous, or mad about the contact at all.

Just not sure why he lied again. He knows darn good and well, I am no fool and I think I catch him in at least 90% of his lies. Although realistically speaking it was probably more like 25% of his lies do I ever know the truth about. Argh.

Pelican

Good morning AD,

I hope you were able to get some sleep and wake up refreshed.

I know how frustrating it is to be continually lied to by an addict. Even when they find recovery, even when they offer you an olive branch (shopping money), they still carry some of the ism's of alcoholism. Lying, half truths and deception by omission. The addict can still hurtful and manipulative.

Hopefully, he will continue with his recovery and improve in this area.

From your post:
Will be addressing this with him tomorrow, calmly after I sleep on it.

Why?
You are still divorcing him. That has not changed. Do you need to engage him today in order to justify divorcing him? Your divorce is based on his past behavior and the hope you have for a better future. Why open another can of worms?

Our Bernadette shared some wisdom on another thread about lying. I couldn't say it better, so here is the link:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2347388

Peace and hugs

dothi

Seconding Pelican. Why do you need to engage? What will you win by catching all of his lies? When you've caught all of his lives and presented them to him, what do you think you will accomplish?

It sounds like you're still seeking validation from him. That is, if he admitted he had lied, you could feel validated in the choices you're making. The problem is that even if he gave you validation, how would you know it was truth or a lie? How much damage would you do to yourself by trusting an addict for such a soul-searching answer? Why look to the most damaged person in your life for the most profound answers?

SHAMAN

"Why look to the most damaged person in your life for the most profound answers"?

B-E-A-utiful. For me, I don't think it's always about finding the 'right' answers, but asking the 'right' questions... I think this is both the 'right' question and the answer. Thanks!

Many Blessings,
Shaman

laurie6781

I'm going to put on my "Addiction Recovery Hat" here for a moment.

I know for myself and for the sponsees I have worked with 'lying' has been one of the hardest things to CHANGE. I did it for so many years that it literally became a 'habit.' It took a lot of hard work and effort on my part for me to learn about telling the truth. I had to literally bite my tongue and THINK my answer through or THINK whatever I was going to say, through before I said whatever I was going to say. It was practice, practice, practice.

I also have seen the same thing in my sponsees ................................... learning about 'honesty' and being 'honest' are hard for someone in recvery. IT is a whole 'new' way of doing things.

The H.O.W. of the 12 step program is H-Honesty, O-Openmindedness and W-Willingness. Honesty is the hardest and you have to work on that first, before being able to work the steps.

Lying is a BIG part of addiction, part of the manipulation. For years now, and I am 28+ continuous years sober and clean, and I can still catch myself about to give an untruthful answer or statement, and go "WHOA what are you doing?" in my head. It amazes me to this day how deeply ingrained the lying was and is.

I am not making excuses for him. He has to start with Honesty. Since you are still seeing him doing this all the time, I cannot help but wonder what if any kind of program he is working..

J M H O

Since his 'lying' is unacceptable, what kind of boundary have you set for YOU and what consequences? Are you willing to stick to this boundary?

Love and hugs,

aboutdone

Thank you all for your responses.

I guess I should do more explaining before I actually vent.

I am divorcing him. Here is why:

I filed after he had been gone about 3 weeks, after having our baby on my own, after seeking help/financial assistance from everyone under the sun.

My attorney charges $1500. Period. Even if you decide to not divorce, you are still paying the fee.

I do love this man, I do understand he has a disease, I will support him as much as I can from a healthy distance.

Divorce isn't done for me me, not necessarily. Divorce is what I must do, financially to protect myself and my children from his BS. He is a financial nightmare, that he failed to tell me about before we were married.

Basically, after we were married, I found out he owed the IRS for 3 years of not filing. AND he owes $50,000 in back child support. Now, I did ask questions about this stuff before we were married. I did all I could do to determine if what he said was accurate. I would never have found out about the back child support, had he not been laid off, filed for unemployment, and then the state sent a letter in regards to it, and that they would be taking a portion of his unemployment towards back Child Support.

He makes damn good money, however his check has child support garnished every week @ 55% of his take home after taxes.

Here lies the financial disaster. I WANT to go back to school. I WANT to provide for my kids solely on my own. Well I WANT the ability to anyways. You know?

I can not afford to go to school while married to him, as on paper, they don't consider that we never see 55% of his income in this household and never will. So to qualify for financial assistance or ever a school loan, I have to be financially separate from him.

Secondly, I can't say that I trust he will ever change. I already have to pay the lawyer $1500 regardless, so figure we will just go ahead and get divorced, as it is the RIGHT thing to do at the moment.

I want to stand on my own, and hope that he does the same. I really don't want to kick the guy when he is trying. I do want to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, I feel I have along ways to go in my recovery from living with him, just as much as he has a long ways to go in his recovery.

Currently he is in my home, and I did set some pretty firm boundaries, one of which is if he says he is going to do something, he better do it, or get out.

Another one is I am not tolerating the lying crap. If he wants to keep lying he can get out.

As it stands we were agreed to divorce, and close the door on that chapter of our lives. Start over, separate households, take care of ourselves, and in my case take care of my children first and foremost. Completely break the codependency crap, and still yet be a couple if you will. Right now he doesn't have the ability to live life as a married couple, and provide what I want from a marriage. Right now I don't have the ability to provide what I want to provide in a marriage, which is TRUST. I can't be the partner in a marriage that I want, which is giving, loving, nurturing, because in our marriage, he takes that to a whole new level of not being able to do anything for himself. I really think there is a difference in codependency and a healthy marriage. I think we both should do things and make decisions as a couple. All decisions, financially, most definately. That doesn't happen here, and so separated maybe it will. Maybe not. Who knows.

Quite honestly I fear, if I drop the divorce, and he has already paid my lawyer $1500, 6 months from now, I will be paying another $1500 to get a divorce.

I started a ball rolling, and I am sticking to it.

Divorce isn't done for me, it can be, but right now I consider it a new beginning. You know?

So, why do I want to confront his lies? Because I feel he does do it, without any thought. Will he just lie to me again? Ya, probably, many many more times. Do I need justification in my idea of getting a divorce. No. Regardless if he won the lottery, I would still get divorced.

I want to sit him down, and explain to him, that I really do not care that he emails his friends and talks to his friends family on email. I want him to try to find a comfort zone in telling the truth, at least to me, as in the past, my codependency behaviour had me going off on every little thing. Now, I want him to know, its ok to make mistakes, but to do whats right in our relationship, he will need to take some degree of ownership, if he can't then it will be divorced and done.

Am I reaching for straws here?

aboutdone

Thanks for the 2x4 again.

I guess the answer to that would be my stupid codependency issues, and guilt.

mermaidgirl

Wow, AboutDone. Although our paths aren't identical; the mistruths with regard to the "hidden" debt are very similar. My last post here (Monday) was about another incident where he ran his account into the ground. And, I am "AboutDone". My son (he has three kids-all moved on) just left for college last week and has shed another (not a new) light on this guys behavior. I have found that it feels good to lay the boundary; but another story to enforce one. I am working on mine-and I cannot imagine it any easier for anyone else out there.

I want my RAH to find work-he hasn't worked in 7 years-our whole marriage. Before you slap the guy-I was the one who endorsed his going back to school to get his bachelor's degree. So, now, he has student loans and if I enforce the boundary right now, I'm on the hook for his loan. I have a call in to an attorney for some advice, because I'm in no hurry and have never been impulsive; but very done and ready to embrace the healthy life I know I deserve and have been working on so hard.

I hope it works out for you-try to take everyone's codie advice here-because for me, as I work on this part of my behavior, it easier it gets for me to understand how I could have been so unfair-to myself.

TakingCharge999

dothi I give you the TC Post of the Week Award!!!!!!!

aboutdone, I hope you change your nick to "done" soon.

:ghug3 you deserve so much more

aboutdone

Alright ya all, HELP ME.

I am so good at diagnosing others dilemmas but can't diagnose my own.

I feel so guilty NOW for wanting the divorce. I still want it. I really do, however I have so much guilt attached to it.

Here is my codie coming out full force.

I believe in my RAH own way he loves me. Is it a healthy relationship? Well,no, it hasn't been. Could it ever be? My head says NO, my heart, says in time....maybe.

For the first time I see my RAH trying. Is he successful? I can't really say. He is sober, I can say that. Everyday he does make efforts to meet all the things I have griped about in the past. He doesn't always achieve everything, but he makes the effort.

Is he still lying to me? Ya, I think he is. Will he stop? From what I have read, chances are no.

I'm stuck at the moment. I'm starting to waiver if you will, and I hate it.

I do not want to make a mistake here. Getting my life together, and getting an education, and providing for my kids and I first and foremost is not a mistake. That part of it I have no qualms about.

Recovery is a work in progress, no? Here I go with the what ifs. BUT WHAT IF, he is on the right path, and he really is doing the best he can at the moment with his life, and is taking it one day at a time, and really does want to be better for himself first and foremost, and still wants to finally be the marriage material I was looking for?

This whole divorce thing is sucking the life out of him. I see that, and yet he does still make the effort around the house? He stays relatively happy most of the time, but spends alot of time in his own mind as well.

If he was still actively drinking, then I would have No Problem with this at all. However he is not. He has been attending meetings, and the 2 he missed, he did say he was going to double up a couple days to get caught up.

The proverbial "olive branch" if you will, the money he gave me to take the kids shopping, and the check for the attorney, are completely out of his character. It taps out his ability to get a loan until that is paid off. It leaves him without the ability to retain a lawyer, and as far as him still being in the house, he really does not have the financial means to be anywhere else at the moment. He basically screwed himself, or shot himself in the foot, by doing that. However, after many arguments, and financial mistakes made on his part, he did owe me the money in one way or another.

Does any of this make sense or do I just sound super codependent. I want the BS to stop. We can't live like we did before. However I think it takes time to change/break old habits, and as I stated previously we both need alot in our own recoverys.

I guess my thought process, which we talked about and agreed to originally, was we would get divorce, live separate for the most part, develop a 2 yr plan, I would take care of me and my kids, he would take care of him, and we could remarry in 2 years if we decided that is what we wanted or if before then we find that we don't have the ability to ever achieve a healthy relationship we would go our separate ways.

Please everyone help me sort it out. Anvilhead bring your 2X4, of course this time it might take a 4X6.

Still Waters

You can whatif yourself into an entire life spent waiting.

A divorce is not the end of the world. A divorce doesn't disappear your AH, he'll still be there but you will have legally removed your ties.

There is nothing that says, in time, if he really embraces recovery and it is proven to you by his actions that he's ready to be a healthy partner that you can't get back together is there?

whyamistaying

aboutdone

Still Waters,

Thank you. That is my point. Yet he is making it the end of the world, which I do understand his feelings.

I don't want to screw him in the divorce. I want what is fair for both of us. He still mostly refuses to sit down and talk about what would be fair and acceptable to both of us.

Its just driving me nuts lately.

Cowgirl1265

Its no fun how codependency makes us turn ourselves into a pretzel. But sometimes, you have to admit, its kind of funny. I am chuckling because I just so totally saw myself in what you wrote.