AH and his family are being verbally abusive to older DS

Old 08-27-2009, 05:13 AM
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AH and his family are being verbally abusive to older DS

AH had overnight visitation for the first time this weekend and took the kids to his sister's house on what was supposed to be a mini-vacation because they live on a lake.

Someone called me from AH’s cell on Saturday night. I tried to call back but got the number not in service message. 2nd call and I got voice mail and I asked ah to please call. No one called me back.

When they got home Sunday I could tell something happened. I asked about the phone call but DS kept saying in this non-chalant (and what sounded like rehearsed) voice that he could not call because there was no service. I asked if he tried to call from his aunt’s other phone (land line) and he said nothing. Then AH said they had worn out their welcome.

After AH left DS told me his dad bought a 12 pack as soon as they got there and drank 5 beers Sat. afternoon (DS always counts everyone’s alcohol consumption). He told me Sat. night AH thought he was being annoying and started to chase him, grabbed him by the neck of his shirt and dragged him, tried to punch him and hit him with a baseball cap but missed. Now DS starts to cry and says he tried to call me but they took the phone away and his aunt would not let him call me on the other phone. DS has RAD and PTSD and he does things that are provocative—but you have to ignore it. It is just testing—will you still love me if I (fill in the blank). AH cannot ignore it.

DS called his dad an alcoholic and then his aunt went off on him and said really mean things to him (he said he could not remember—he just remembers being really afraid and that they would not let him call me) and told him his dad is not an alcoholic. No one in AH’s family knows what to do when DS goes into a rage—including AH because—well, he just never bothered to learn. So here is an 8-year-old boy who has gone into a rage and panic attack and is surrounded by adults who are scaring him even more and won’t let him talk to the one person who he knows can calm him down and make him feel safe-me.

Things did calm down after a long time, but then the aunt tells DS not to say anything to me about his dad being mean to him over the weekend. DS was sobbing through the whole thing and begging me to never have to be with AH when he is with his family again. I think other visits with AH have gone fine but he had not kept the kids overnight. Also, Ah and his family feed off each other so when he is around them they enable him to the fullest. Also, the BIL tells DS that AH only drinks 2 beers a day and that is healthy. . .wrong and wrong.

These people are insane and my kids are forced to be with them. Also wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:44 AM
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Eight isn't an easy age, with the best of situations. I'm so sorry he's having to go through all this wife2
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:19 AM
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It's a difficult time for kids when they are going back and forth between families. My sons did it, and I also had stepchildren who went back and forth. It's common for the kids to become pawns, and for the extended families to treat them poorly and/or pump them for information, just to keep the toxic situation alive and well.

I let my kids talk things out when they got home. Only you can decide if it's truly harmful and detrimental, and if you need to call someone at Child Services, then do so. My warning/suggestion would be to do it with a pure heart as once that call has been placed, everyone's actions and agendas are under scrutiny, including your own.

Since your child is disabled, does he have a counselor or an advocate who helps with the care? Perhaps he could talk this thru with that person.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:23 AM
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I hope you have reported ALL of this to your attorney. This is NOT acceptable at all for a young child and needs to be addressed by the Courts IMMEDIATELY ie SUPERVISED VISITS by an 'uninvolved' 3rd party.

You are a good mom, never doubt that. Now is the time to use the legal system to help you. Get your lovely son into his counselor right away, even if it is not a scheduled appointment and then the counselor can also write a 'letter to the court' on how this affected DS.

I am so sorry that young man had to endure their ABUSE and yes it was abuse.

See how soon your attorney can get this before the court.

Know that we are walking with you in spirit.

Love and hugs,
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:29 AM
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He has been seeing an attachment and trauma therapist weekly for the last 2 1/2 years. He has an appointment with her today. She is aware that prior to me leaving STBXAH that he was very verbally abusive to DS--calling him a little jerk. He showers love on our 4 year old and yells at our 8 year old. Our 8 year old said that last year when he was driving him to school if he got mad at him he would pinch him inside his thigh and it hurt.

DS loves his dad and like I said a couple weeks ago--it is confusing. How can someone he loves leave a place in his heart that hurts so bad.

STBXAH has suggested collaborative parenting. . .and I think it is a good idea. But he needs to step up to the plate and protect his son, not harm him.

This is not a case of me being angry at STBXAH and trying to get back at him. I left him because of his alcohol abuse and verbal violence and threats. I assume that now that there is no reason to stop drinking and getting high that he has started again--at least that is the scoop through the town grapevine.

Last night he called to see if the people who had looked at our house were interested and then asked to say good night to the kids. I told him I thought that was a great idea and then asked that he extend the same courtesy to me when he has the kids, not only at night, but when older DS is in crisis. He said he would but did not say anything about this past weekend. Older DS walked into the room as I was talking to STBXAH and when he found out he could call me when he was not at home he went from looking very sad to very happy. I am his safe person. Always have been and I always will be. He knows I will never hurt him and that no matter what he says or does to me I will always be there. It is hard because he can be pretty harsh and say some pretty horrific things--but I know it is not him, not the real him. It is the scared kid who wants to make sure I am not going to abandon him like his birth mother did.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:50 AM
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STBXAH has suggested collaborative parenting. . .and I think it is a good idea. But he needs to step up to the plate and protect his son, not harm him.
Well, he's proven that he's not going to do that. Expecting this of an active alcoholic is unrealistic, and is only going to hurt your son more and more as his disease worsens.

I don't see anything here that is a good idea -- shoving, shouting, pinching, threats, in addition to having to watch him get raving drunk and feeding your son to relatives to abuse too?

The real question is not who loves who but what are you going to do to protect your son? Have you documented this and reported all of it to your attorney? This is child abuse, and you do have the power to not let this happen again. But if you don't report it, you're just standing by and once again expecting AH to do the right thing. Sorry for my tone --- but I had a mother who would not protect me because she lived in a fantasy world about how my father really WAS - and didn't want to make waves. It took many, many years to heal from that, and in some ways I never can.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:10 AM
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I emailed my attorney all of this. He said that because it is a divorce there is an issue of he said, she said and to get DS to the therapist right away. Anything I say is just hearsay. Anything DS says to his therapist can be reported to the court instantly so action can be taken.
I am not delusional about him--that is why I left and stayed in a hotel and with my sister. I did not want to go into the house if he was there. When we moved back into the house after he left I put those slider locks that you put on the top of the door (they are more safety latches so kids cannot open the door from inside). You can't open the door from outside either.
He has been fine with the kids when he is alone with them--that is what DS is saying. He said it is only when he is with his family that the problems are there. Of course he does not have a place to live yet so he cannot have overnight visitation unless he does. The Family Commissioner ordered that.
He sometimes does not want to talk about these hard things with the therapist and we need to be careful not to lead him and allow him to just say what happened without insinuating something happened. Stupid--yes. But I was a criminal investigator for 12 years and I know the laws and the courts. In divorce situations they always think one spouse is trying to trash the other--regardless of whether it is the truth. It is their knee jerk reaction.
I am keeping my kids safe. They are with me this weekend and AH never keeps them overnight during the week.
I know now for a fact I will never let him take the kids a day early like I did last week. But I thought it would be OK because from all my encounters with is sister ande BIL they are honest, nice people. I forgot that his sister took care of him until he was 8 years old because his mother was never around--rich girl off playing with her girl pals. So she has a mothering instince for AH I think. It took every ounce of sanity to not call her on Sunday and scream at her. I need to stay calm. I need to be the one who is handling this the proper way through the legal system. I know how it works and yes, this is blantant abuse. But coming from me, the wife divorcing her husband, it will not mean anything. Coming from the therapist it can and will be used to determine how visitation occurs.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:50 AM
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I have a similar situation in which the older child is the golden child and the younger one is the scapegoat. XAH would deny phone access so I provided prepaid cell phones. Also included a line in the divorce decree about children not being denied phone access to other parent.

I also use a counselor after any incidents. In 2 cases XAH physically manhandled younger child, in one leaving his handprint on her arm in the form of a bruise. I told the therapist and she called social services due to legal requirements to report abuse. She also spoke with the child. In my state social services did nothing but start a paper trail, but it is documentation.

I now do not allow myself to vary from the decree. At first I felt guilty for doing that but then I realized I was not protecting the kids if I gave into him and I was actively modeling an unhealthy way to respond to a disrespectful person.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:52 PM
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I like the idea of prepaid phones and putting something in the decree about phone access.

Chrysalis--so does XAH still have visitation with both kids? If so, what do you tell your younger child so they know they will be safe? Have you even gone and picked up your children because you felt they were not safe?
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Wife2Kids View Post
Chrysalis--so does XAH still have visitation with both kids? If so, what do you tell your younger child so they know they will be safe? Have you even gone and picked up your children because you felt they were not safe?
Yes, my XAH still has visitation. He is supposed to have up to 50% overnights. But since he was scapegoating one the counselors demanded separate visitation until he agreed to get parenting help. I offered him every night having one kid, and he refused since that would be way too hard on his social life. And those damn counselors don't know what they're talking about and he doesn't need help...I did! My HP oversaw this because the kids are with me most of the time now due to XAH arrogance and refusal to see them as often as he was legally entitled too. I am thankful.

My counselor and I have talked with them about physical/emotional safety. Younger one is now 12 and will call if she needs help. The counselor has helped her work out things to say to give her a chance to cool down. Such as, "Daddy I need a time out." and then remove herself to a room. She did not realize she could say that to him. Recently, for the first time she asked for help to get her home cause "Dad's been drinking Mom."

Yes, I have gone and picked her up. She called one night when she was 10. Said Dad had left and said he would be right back. He told her this at 6 and she called me at 8 because it was dark and she was scared. I went to get her. He called at 11 asking for her. Did not know she was gone since 8. I did not return her since she was asleep and he did not push it.

His behavior has gotten better as I have become healthier and firmer at holding my boundaries and not keeping any secrets. He counted on the fact that I would never involve outsiders into our business. Once Social Services was called and therapists involved (he told me they were nuts and he was going to find a therapist that agreed with him doing all his crap) things have settled down a bit.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrysalis123 View Post
He counted on the fact that I would never involve outsiders into our business. Once Social Services was called and therapists involved (he told me they were nuts and he was going to find a therapist that agreed with him doing all his crap) things have settled down a bit.
DS did talk to the therapist today. She started by asking how this weeks visitation went and then asked how his weekend had gone--and he told her everything. STBXAH does not like the therapist for obvious reasons. DS has told her all the crap he does. She did not want to appear for the temporary hearing but said she would appear for the final hearing. Of course he does not like her--she is the one who is going to make sure he takes care of our kids or will do what she can to make sure he does not have our kids if he continues to be abusive. She is the impartial 3rd party the court will listen to.

I really do like the idea of a prepaid phone. That way DS does not have to rely on AH or his clan to allow him to use the phone if he needs help.

Good for your daughter that she is able to tell her Dad she needs a time out. Sad that she has to do this too. It is amazing that our kids work harder at being healthy than their other parent. That is the really hard part for DS. He is working hard to heal and AH is not and it makes him frustrated and even angry because "Daddy is a grown up and should know better".
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