well, you were right.

Old 09-02-2009, 10:30 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by queenie88 View Post
We’ve started talking again. Xabf is back from mexico.
Had the Mexican government not dramatically raised taxes on alcohol(to cover associated health care) tequila would still be quite cheap, and he very well might still be in Mexico.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sclarke64448 View Post
I think from your posts our relationships even broke up at the same time. Mine was at the end of May - but the actual break up dragged out until the middle of June with his, 'I do want you, I don't want you, I do, I don't, I don't know, give me time and space, etc.'
yes, that's about the same timeline as mine! how crazy is that! he kicked me out and sent me back home towards the end of may, but he went back and forth with the "i love you, i want to work on things" (i now realize he told me this when he was drunk) to "you can't push things, i don't want to talk about it, i don't know if i can get over what happened" up until he left for mexico, which was in june. UGH. i just can't believe that i believed his BS. yes, he loves me. yes, he wants to work on things. yes, he wants me to come back up. yes, we're committed to each other.....ALL BS!!!

Now I know I do bang on about how much I want to hear from him etc, but it's more my self esteem taking a battering along the lines of 'If a drunk can leave me for some woman who's not as smart, attractive or bright who's had four children by at least three different men, then what does that make me?' But then I need to tell myself of his words when he left - 'I honestly feel like I'm not good enough for you!' I disagreed with him. Maybe I should now start agreeing!
i definitely hear you on this one. i've had thoughts like this before...mostly along the lines of "how the hell did i get dumped by an alcoholic weed addict? who am i? if i can't even make a relationship with him work, what hope do i have of making a relationship work with someone who doesn't have his problems?" i've been reading women who love too much and what you just said really reminded me of something i read in the book, i WISH i could find it but i've been searching and searching but i just can't find the right passage...i'll keep looking, hopefully it will turn up!
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:04 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
I am so glad that my weirdness is helpful, LOL!


This is so excellent! You are doing great in your recovery! You are courageously looking at yourself and seeing what is unhealthy. This will help you to make healthy decisions regarding this person in the future.

You are not alone. I think a lot of us progressed from partners in crime all the way to scapegoat. This progression reflects the progression of the disease.



Queenie, Sweetie Pie (I love to use Dessert names :O) I'm willing to bet a small, valuable farm animal that his claims were not lies. I'm willing to bet that he really did have these feelings for you. His disease prevents him from successfully acting on these feelings and attaining what the person inside him truly wants. It is apparent that at this time, he realizes that he cannot have both a relationship with you and a relationship with his addiction at the same time.

He will choose his addiction over you or anyone else, or anything else, EVERY time. Until he decides he does not want to live that way anymore.

In retrospect, I probably should not have used the word, "discarded." A person cannot be discarded. Perhaps it would be better to look at it as the addict making the choice not to include the non-enabler in his life. Sorry about that.

Queenie, you are not a piece of trash that can be discarded. You are a beautiful, caring, worthy human being.


Queenie, He did not throw you away. He is pursuing what his addiction tells him to pursue. What are you doing?


Try to stop beating yourself up about what you did in the past. Focus on today. Remember, decisions are not FOREVER. Who knows? This guy may be banging on your door in a week or so. They are so VERY unpredictable!

Try not to think of it as "turning your back on someone you love." If you are focusing yourself on making healthy decisions, and getting yourself better, you certainly are not turning your back on ANYONE. You're just taking care of yourself. When you decide to "turn your back on someone" that is VERY painful. Don't turn your back on him, take care of YOU.



Good lord Queenie, a week is not a very long time. I think you can handle a week away from another person, don't you?


What are you, a mind reader? You don't know what he wants. You're driving yourself crazy trying to figure out what HE wants. You can't do this because you're not "Magic Girlfriend" AND his wants change every single day.

What do YOU want?



Wait away, but in the meantime it would be healthiest for you to help yourself.


Ooh, another one I recommend is "Emotional Blackmail". A real eye-opener for me. Library probably has it.
Learn2Live...it's nice to hear you say that his feelings for me were probably genuine, but just that he couldn't successfully act on them or maintain those feelings because of his addiction. that makes me truly sad, that perhaps he may never be capable of achieving emotional intimacy with someone, maybe will never experience love. i know i can't worry about these things though, but i waiver between being really angry at him for not loving me how i need to be loved, and feeling pity because i realize that he is just not able, that maybe he does actually want to be close to somebody but just can't.

you're right, i am still beating myself up about what happened in the past, my crazy codie behaviors that reared their ugly heads and ultimately led to him kicking me out of his house. i'm working on forgiving myself. i think i've definitely made some progress, but i'm not there 100%. i still find myself asking my friends and family "am i a horrible person because of what i did." i've realized that they can tell me that no, i'm not a horrible person until they're blue in the face, but i'll keep asking those same questions until I am able to tell myself that i'm not a horrible person. unfortunately i haven't gotten to that point yet.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:59 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Thanks a lot L2L. I don't know what hurts more, if thinking everything was a lie from the start, of thinking they had feelings but addiction won. Its just madness.

Sclarke:

'If a drunk can leave me for some woman who's not as smart, attractive or bright who's had four children by at least three different men, then what does that make me?'


The only difference between you and this woman is that she buys his BS and accepts/maybe even encourage his drinking. OR that she does not know the extent of his drinking yet.

Black & white, no grays. Either you are with the addiction or you are out.

queenie: you are sad because perhaps he does not know real love, well if he keeps making those choices he certainly won't - you cannot control him or cure him... but you are closer to feeling real love, the one that never dies (towards yourself and life/god/nature..) For real love there are no goodbyes.

A thought that helps me is knowing No Contact is just for 3 or 4 decades LOL and I will see this person again after death and we will laugh about it all.. that I will see him and all the other people that I miss, that deep down they all tried to teach me something and I need to be strong until then.

Also, at this rate and reading the stories here when my anger starts again I think "what if he only has other 10 years to live, why would I desire anything wrong to happen when he is already creating that and blind to the consequences" this helps me feel more compassion...

But honestly... I see this ex totally smiley, careless and seemingly having the time of his life and I wonder why we are suffering so much or are "worried" about them? when they do not worry about themselves or give a damn about anything... I guess that is alcoholism too, making others feel bad instead of themselves. I still recall a particularly bad night and his shrugging off the next day "I dont remember what I said" then munching Corn flakes as if everything was good. When confronted he said "I may not mean what I say while drunk"

....

One year afterwards those words still hurt like hell... but I realized my mistake was to believe he was as truthful as me.

I suffered a lot thinking he was this great person but just not TO ME, that he had so much for me before then decided to stop it.. now I realize he is just doing the best he can, what he has given is what he has, it all he has... confusion.. its not that he purposedly hurt me or tried to made me feel bad, he just does not know anything else... its what addicts do... who I knew was the best him he could be and that was not good enough for TC999.

Today a friend told me "why do you care for someone who does not care about you" ... ouch.


Last edited by TakingCharge999; 09-02-2009 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:27 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by queenie88 View Post
We’ve spoken on the phone twice since he’s been back. I’m trying to remain as indifferent as I can. I ask him why he calls. He says “because I just want to see how you’re doing, because I care.”
Is this all a load of bullsh*t? if he’s trying to manipulate me, what is he getting out of it from me?
He wants someone to enable his addiction. Mine tried to weasel my new location from me by saying that I could keep his stuff at my new place and he would pick it up when he found a place. I almost bit but didn't and told him he had till Oct 1st to get it out of here. After that, his stuff gets given to charity.

Originally Posted by queenie88 View Post
I’m not groveling, I’m not begging for him to take him back, I’m no longer blaming myself for everything that happened – is it possible he’s genuinely concerned, or is something else going on? I feel like I can’t figure this one out.
These thoughts ran through my mind with my EXABF as we met today but
I soon realized that he wants back in our place for nothing more than to have a place to lay his head, call home and continue to drink and deny his addiction. To me, that's his version of love and concern - for himself, not for me.

Trouble is, I have found a new place and am taking the steps to heal and move on. He can't accept that and uses his concern for my welfare as an excuse to keep me under his thumb and off balance. After the third call tonight, I turned off the phone-I have never felt such a tiredness as I did tonight-slept through the evening almost like my mind and body shut down. It's been a tough two weeks but tomorrow, I start to pack my stuff for my move-a journey to peace and serenity.

As I sit here typing this and reading through other posts here, I realize that my new life does begin now and I refuse to let him get me off balance again. If he's stuck in neutral, that's his to deal with, not my concern.

For once, it is all about me-my happiness, my life and whatever he has to deal with, he has to go it alone.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:42 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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i waiver between being really angry at him for not loving me how i need to be loved, and feeling pity because i realize that he is just not able, that maybe he does actually want to be close to somebody but just can't.
Queenie, when you feel anger, ask yourself what are your expectations of the person you are angry at that are not being met? Is it fair of you to put the responsibility for your own feelings of love onto another person? Is it fair to expect these things from someone we are romantically involved with? Can ANYONE, alcoholic, addicted, or not, fulfill these responsibilities all the time?

Do you really need HIM to love you the way you need to be loved? Do you really need another person to fulfill this for you? Or can you give that to yourself somehow? Do you have a Higher Power who loves you?

Ask yourself why do you feel pity for someone and believe that person is incapable of something so very human? (I am working on this too, because I feel sorry for EVERYONE it seems!) By feeling sorry for them and believing that they are limited in some way, is that a way for you to excuse other people's behavior that bothers or affects you in some way? I make excuses for the guy on the highway who cuts me off and almost causes me to have an accident. Is this just a way for me to protect myself from others?

Alternatively, am I belittling others in my mind? Do I perceive others as LESS THAN me and that is why I think they are incapable of caring for themselves and having the life they want? Is it my business to feel sorry for someone else because HE is not living the kind of life, or having the kind of relationships I think he should have?

These are all questions I am asking myself right now. Your sentence (above) just helped bring these questions forward for ME.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:50 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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TakingCharge said:
But honestly... I see this ex totally smiley, careless and seemingly having the time of his life and I wonder why we are suffering so much or are "worried" about them? when they do not worry about themselves or give a damn about anything... I guess that is alcoholism too, making others feel bad instead of themselves. I still recall a particularly bad night and his shrugging off the next day "I dont remember what I said" then munching Corn flakes as if everything was good. When confronted he said "I may not mean what I say while drunk"
The cornflake picture you put in my head is hilarious. Here's one for ya': My crackhead brother, at approximately 35 years old, with a crackhead wife and two small children, blowing through $75,000 of cocaine and whatever else within one year, while my little mother, age 65, struggles to keep her head above water. :wtf2

Not a care in the world. They say and do whatever they want. Hard to feel sorry for someone like that.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:13 PM
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Hi Learn2Live

He very occasionally did it. Not often. In the three years I was with him he was daily on lager, a regular on cider and WKD and bought weed every fortnight (though it would last him two or three days). In his much younger days before ever settling down and having kids with his ex he would try EVERYTHING! He thinks the only thing he's never done is crystal meths. He bragged to me on many occasions about once how he and a group of his friends managed to get hold of 20,000 temazepam (Is that how you spell it?) and over a period of time they consumed the lot! ALL OF THEM!

I should have known from our first date about the drinking. It was the second time ever in my life I'd tried Vodka. The whole bottle was gone by the end of the evening and at 3pm the next day I suffered the shakes. First and only time ever in my life I'd had them. (I've never been a big drinker - though progressively I was drinking more when with him! Towards the end I could easily down eight pints on a night and I'm only short and petite build).

As for cocaine - he knows I hated him touching drugs. I could barely cope with the weed (though that was because I hated the smell and I hated the way he was so slow funcitioning after!) But there were two or three times he was so nasty to me - once he cornered me against a wall in the street and threatened to hit me. I'm ashamed to say that almost on reflex I slapped him across the face. He cornered me again and towered over me. Scared me half to death. It was the only time EVER in our relationship I finished with him. That was about 3pm. I drove 30 miles back home. About half eight that night he rang to apologise and confessed he'd been doing cocaine the night before.

Another time on coke he got nasty again. I told him never to ring me / ask to see me again while on coke and to my knowledge he never did. Though if he did, he hid it well.

All his friends liked it as well and were astounded when I said I'd never tried it. Does not interest me.

Serious L2L he broke up with me so many times. Sometimes he'd warn me and it was in a friendly way but he said he needed to stand on his own two feet but he'd call me in a few days and still wanted us to be friends. Other times he'd go no contact. The longest time, as I said, was 12 days. That was in June last year. And it was the last time before this time, in May.

It's scarey how all our exes act similarly and in similar patterns. The similarities between mine and Queenie's relationships and exes scare me. It's like we were seeing the same person!
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by queenie88 View Post
i've been reading women who love too much and what you just said really reminded me of something i read in the book, i WISH i could find it but i've been searching and searching but i just can't find the right passage...i'll keep looking, hopefully it will turn up!
Hey darlin', if it does, let me know !!! So I can stop doing this.......

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Old 09-03-2009, 01:32 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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sclarke,

I'm not saying it's any worse in the U.K. than the U.S. but it seems the British pub is very much an extension of your own home. I could see how a person could get very accustomed to that. There are bars and liquor stores everywhere here in the States. I must pass at least 10 of them on my way home from work everyday and I only live 6 miles from work! With so much availability, I know from experience it's very hard to quit drinking when you have a problem.

That EX of yours sounds very DANGEROUS. I think you should stay VERY far away from him NO MATTER how much you may love and/or obsess over him. Violent crackheads do VERY sick things! They're already unpredictable.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:50 AM
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Hi again L2L

I just read that post back (my original one!) I probably didn't write it well (scarey, considering writing is how I make my living!!!) but what I meant was, to my knowledge, he only ever did coke about three times while we were together. He definitely was a regular.

And while he could be menacing and did a couple of times threaten me (once as described on my last post after he did coke and the other time on the day we broke up - again after I slapped him) he never once laid a finger on me.

I hope I didn't give an impression to the contrary. On the day he broke up with his ex he slapped her. He tells me this is the first and only time ever he has hit a woman and he was so ashamed of it that he said I'd never have any worries. He could never lift a finger to me, etc.

So just to clarify although he got angry and nasty on a handful of occasions, it never went any further.

Intriguingly though at one point he did have to go for a mental health assessment and he told them all about me. The report said I was at a 'moderate' risk of violence.

I am ashamed to say I slapped him two or three times. The first was during the incident as described above when he took coke, the second was one night when he had nowhere to stay and we were desperately trying to find him somewhere and because the police wanted him the local hostel wouldn't take him in, so it looked like another cold night on the streets. I said I'd book him into a cheap hotel, at which point he asked if it made me feel better, treating him like a charity case. When I slapped him it looked like he was going to hit me back, but he didn't. In fact it snapped him back into a good mood, he got back in the car and apologised for the way he spoke to me.

The third time was the day we broke up, didn't break up, etc, in June. Again he never slapped me, though this time he restrained me on the sofa.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:52 AM
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[QUOTE=sclarke64448;2354197]Hi again L2L

I just read that post back (my original one!) I probably didn't write it well (scarey, considering writing is how I make my living!!!) but what I meant was, to my knowledge, he only ever did coke about three times while we were together. He definitely was a regular.

Definitely WASN'T a regular! WASN'T, WASN'T, WASN'T!

Sheesh, what's wrong with me! I'm going to need to look for a change of career at this rate!!!! Would you employ this writer???:rotfxko
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:27 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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That,s ok sclarke, no-one can expect perfection under these stresses. Just take a break and a few deep breaths and let yourself try and relax for a couple of minutes, then you can hit the keyboard and produce some Shakespeare like posts.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:35 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Its worrying that you became violent with him. Were you trying to provoke him? Do you think its acceptable?
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:50 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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sclarke, honey,

I read your posts and all I hear are excuses, rationalizations, and denial.

You are making excuses for this person's really bad (and criminal, by the way) behavior because you are so entrenched in his sickness.

You are more concerned that you are a "bad" writer than the fact that this guy you are probably obsessing about is a person:

(1) Who HITS women,
(2) Who the authorities in your country have judged should be removed from society for some period of time,
(3) Who learned and experienced PROFESSIONALS in a well-established field of social services have warned you about YOUR risk of bodily harm (and therefore, death), and
(4) Who is not an acceptable resident of even a HOSTEL.

Quizzically, you continue to lean on YOUR OWN judgment. Do you see that somehow you have lost your ability to reason regarding, and possibly protect yourself from, this person?

Whether you realize it or not, you actually think that slapping this obviously dangerous person is going to protect you from what you are TRULY AFRAID OF.

When are you going to TRUST those people to whom your society pays good salaries to specifically protect YOU--AND get help for yourself?

Written in love, L2L
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:52 AM
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Sclarke…it sounds like you’re dealing with a dangerous, volatile man. It’s these stories that make me think…maybe xabf wasn’t that bad? He was never physical with me but there was definitely an element of emotional and verbal abuse, in addition to mood swings and anger (I was just remembering last night that one time we were in the middle of a discussion and he was about to say something so I was looking at him…turns out he was about to sneeze and got angry at me because I was still looking at him while he was trying to sneeze….WTF?) and then I hear stories of people who say physical abuse slowly crept into their relationships and then I wonder…could that have happened with xabf? Does he have the capacity for physical violence?
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:00 AM
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Just read the headlines and you have your answer. All the neighbors and friends who say, over and over, "I can't believe he would do such a thing. No one would ever have suspected..."
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Just read the headlines and you have your answer. All the neighbors and friends who say, over and over, "I can't believe he would do such a thing. No one would ever have suspected..."
L2L you're right...i need to keep in mind the progressive nature of the disease.

sadly, in his mind, I became the one with both a drinking and violence problem! I’ll admit, the night of my blow-up I kicked him in the back of the leg as we were leaving his friend’s house. It wasn’t hard, it was just more something a fourth grader would do if angry, but I know it wasn’t right. The day had been just so horrible, and that night I had just had enough of his snide remarks and comments and put-downs in front of our friends.

Well, from that point on it was “are you sure you should be drinking tonight? I know how you get when you drink, look, you’re already kicking stuff around!”

We were heading out to a friend’s house and there was a cord on the ground that I kicked out of the way.

The man would have used ANYTHING just to put the blame on me.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:39 AM
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Hi Bookwyrm

No I do not think it was acceptable. The first time I did it was the day he took coke and threatened to hit me just because I was trying to talk to him in the street. I think that time it was a defence mechanism as I was quite frightened at the time. It was like a reflex. The second and third time was due to him pushing me to emotional breaking point. Again not an excuse but I just wanted his emotional cruelty to stop. These were the only three serious arguments we'd ever had in the whole relationship. Others were petty squabbles I wouldn't rise to. With the first and second times my ex told me he had deliberately pushed me to that point as he hated the fact I never stood up to him and he thought I should. As I said, the one time was when he had taken coke. A few hours later after I'd driven home he actually phoned to apologise to me. The second time was when he had nowhere to stay and I was desperately trying to find him somewhere, even though he'd given up. And he accused me of treating him like a charity case so I felt good about myself. That was when I slapped him. Bizarrely he got straight back in the car and apologised again and said he didn't blame me for the way I'd reacted. I was so numb at the time after I couldn't even speak to him for the first half hour even though he started saying he again did it deliberately to provoke me. Another time when he was saying I was too laid back, etc, he then said, "I know you've got passion, I've seen it, and I just think you should express yourself more often and stand up for what you want." Ironically he said that again just a couple of weeks before we split, so I did start to tell him what I wanted, for him, for me, for us. Days later when he tried to break up the first time, he said: "We've been arguing a bit lately as well..."


Learn2Live and Queenie, I'm so shocked you think he's this dangerous. The only time I ever felt at risk from him in three years was that one time in the street. Having said that I only today remembered the mental health assessment I mentioned earlier - and that said I was at moderate risk. And when I think back to my early days he was in court for harassment of his ex, which the British courts listed under domestic violence.

I honestly hadn't seen him as violent or threatening when we were together. Ironically though since we split up I have been quite scared of bumping into him, due to the menacing text a few weeks ago. Tomorrow I am visiting a friend who lives in the house he used to live in. And a part of me is quite nervous of running into him. Even my sister said if he saw my car about outside the house, shop, or whatever, she believes he would come in and have a go at me. On the other hand I thought he would be more likely to avoid the shop, etc.

It's weird how people's perceptions can differ. I'm not saying I'm right and you both are wrong. I am just saying you're probably right and I'm probably blinkered, naive and looking through rose tints as usual!!
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:55 AM
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God I have to say these last few posts have really been an eye opener. I really have been blinkered haven't I. Was totally swept away by his charm - too much to see him for what he really was. I love you guys - you have taught and continue to teach me so much!
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