Expectations, Anger and Controlling
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Expectations, Anger and Controlling
In the work I have been doing lately on my anger issues I've discovered a few things.
Some background: I have uncontrollable anger at times, but really only in my romantic relationships. I actually have a very tender heart and normally I will just cry and cry when someone "hurts my feelings." But when I feel so threatened by the hurt someone else is "causing me," (which really only occurs in "romantic" relationships) I become very angry to the point of verbal abuse and harrassment. I will literally scream and rant to the point of spitting.
The only way I know to get this anger under control is to smoke cigarettes. I've tried everything else I can think of but nothing but nicotine works.
In trying to teach myself how to control my anger without using nicotine, I've discovered that when I am angry, it is because my expectations of the other person are too high. For instance, if I'm in a relationship with a man, I expect him to share in certain responsibilities around the house, whether we are living together or not. If the "boyfriend" doesn't automatically do what I expect he will do, my feelings are hurt because I think "He just doesn't love or care about me, otherwise he would do it."
Later, because he didn't do what I expected, I think, "Well maybe he just doesn't know." So, I'll ASK him to do whatever it was that I expected. Then, when he still doesn't do it even though I ask, again I think he doesn't love me. So then, I get mad and do it MYSELF.
Pile enough of these types of situations one on top of another, then he goes off and does something overtly uncaring and I EXPLODE.
What I am working on now is my expectations. If the man was never there to begin with, I have to do all these things on my own. Because this is the life I have chosen. I have CHOSEN to have my own house, yard, grass, trash, car, etc. It is my responsibility because this is the life I've chosen, to take care of these things. I'd have to be taking care of all these things myself anyway. thinking this way helps me to be truly GRATEFUL for the things a man does do for me.
I've also learned that my anger is a self-regulating mechanism that I use to try to protect myself by controlling the other person. Once I have reached the pit bull stage, the other person is either Fight or Flight. I put them right where I want them. Most men will NOT fight with me, but run like hell.
Wow, don't I sound like a great girlfriend? My hurt and anger have the opposite effect of what I wanted in the first place--closeness. But I can't get close because I get hurt and then I get angry and chase them away.
Does anyone have any ideas or new perspectives that I can apply when dealing with others to stop using anger to control people? Like the way I now use gratitude to reduce and be hurt by my own expectations?
Some background: I have uncontrollable anger at times, but really only in my romantic relationships. I actually have a very tender heart and normally I will just cry and cry when someone "hurts my feelings." But when I feel so threatened by the hurt someone else is "causing me," (which really only occurs in "romantic" relationships) I become very angry to the point of verbal abuse and harrassment. I will literally scream and rant to the point of spitting.
The only way I know to get this anger under control is to smoke cigarettes. I've tried everything else I can think of but nothing but nicotine works.
In trying to teach myself how to control my anger without using nicotine, I've discovered that when I am angry, it is because my expectations of the other person are too high. For instance, if I'm in a relationship with a man, I expect him to share in certain responsibilities around the house, whether we are living together or not. If the "boyfriend" doesn't automatically do what I expect he will do, my feelings are hurt because I think "He just doesn't love or care about me, otherwise he would do it."
Later, because he didn't do what I expected, I think, "Well maybe he just doesn't know." So, I'll ASK him to do whatever it was that I expected. Then, when he still doesn't do it even though I ask, again I think he doesn't love me. So then, I get mad and do it MYSELF.
Pile enough of these types of situations one on top of another, then he goes off and does something overtly uncaring and I EXPLODE.
What I am working on now is my expectations. If the man was never there to begin with, I have to do all these things on my own. Because this is the life I have chosen. I have CHOSEN to have my own house, yard, grass, trash, car, etc. It is my responsibility because this is the life I've chosen, to take care of these things. I'd have to be taking care of all these things myself anyway. thinking this way helps me to be truly GRATEFUL for the things a man does do for me.
I've also learned that my anger is a self-regulating mechanism that I use to try to protect myself by controlling the other person. Once I have reached the pit bull stage, the other person is either Fight or Flight. I put them right where I want them. Most men will NOT fight with me, but run like hell.
Wow, don't I sound like a great girlfriend? My hurt and anger have the opposite effect of what I wanted in the first place--closeness. But I can't get close because I get hurt and then I get angry and chase them away.
Does anyone have any ideas or new perspectives that I can apply when dealing with others to stop using anger to control people? Like the way I now use gratitude to reduce and be hurt by my own expectations?
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
If he's not able to take the trash out, after I've asked him to many times, then he needs to go create trash somewhere else.
Sorry - I know that's not what you asked for...but expectations are okay in my book, it's unreasonable expectations that are a problem.
Sorry - I know that's not what you asked for...but expectations are okay in my book, it's unreasonable expectations that are a problem.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
All I know is what we had to do here. In my house we get around anger by having agreements. We long ago figured out that he LIKES to do the laundry and the vacuuming, and I LIKE doing all the yard work, for example, and whoever sees the trash full first tosses it in the can. We talk it out, over a nice dinner on the deck usually, and if something isn't working we figure it out and tweak it.
That only works if you're both willing to become equal partners and be on the same side, regardless of the "shoulds", the "nevers", the "always..." Those have to go, in order to become teammates. Then you sit down and agree on a list of everything that has to happen in order to keep your household running well. And agree who's going to do what....make sure the two lists are about the same length
It was a huge eye-opener for my H to see how many tasks go into making sure the place doesnt' come crashing down.
And if he still won't hold up his end of the bargain....well....you would have to decide whether you respect him enough to stay in this relationship. I personally can't abide a partner who expects me to be his mom...I'd rather be on my own.
Same for someone who does things that are blatantly disrespectful. For me, that's what my bro calls "wtn" - worse than nothing.
Wishing you luck in sitting down and finding solutions - or making healthy choices for yourself if there are none to be found in your current situation.
That only works if you're both willing to become equal partners and be on the same side, regardless of the "shoulds", the "nevers", the "always..." Those have to go, in order to become teammates. Then you sit down and agree on a list of everything that has to happen in order to keep your household running well. And agree who's going to do what....make sure the two lists are about the same length
It was a huge eye-opener for my H to see how many tasks go into making sure the place doesnt' come crashing down.And if he still won't hold up his end of the bargain....well....you would have to decide whether you respect him enough to stay in this relationship. I personally can't abide a partner who expects me to be his mom...I'd rather be on my own.
Same for someone who does things that are blatantly disrespectful. For me, that's what my bro calls "wtn" - worse than nothing.
Wishing you luck in sitting down and finding solutions - or making healthy choices for yourself if there are none to be found in your current situation.
Last edited by GiveLove; 08-19-2009 at 07:49 PM.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
These are very tough questions you are asking. I commend you for looking at your own behavior, even though it may be uncomfortable.
I am at a point where I am beginning to look at my expectations for my life, not just those expectations I have of a partner, but core beliefs about what my life should look like. Like you, I chose the life I have, and all the responsibilities that come with it. Now, I'm starting to really examine why I made the choices I have, and whether or not they are really that important to me.
I am questioning whether what I choose to have is what I really want, I mean deep down in my soul. I'm considering getting outside the box that I have put myself in, the box that society wants me in, the box that 'normal' people are supposed to want. Slowly and deliberately, I am starting to point myself in a different direction. The direction my spirit longs to go, rather than the direction I always thought I should go. It's not an easy or quick process. In fact, I am looking at where I want to be five years from now and how I will get there.
A lot can happen in five years, and I am prepared to rethink my plan if life points me in a different direction. But, I have to say, for the first time in my life, I am actually doing what feels right, not just what's expected.
So, I guess that was a lot of words to say, listen to your gut. Be open to all possibilities, not just the ones you have trained yourself to look for. I believe my best years are yet to come, and I believe it has much to do with rethinking my priorities.
L
I am at a point where I am beginning to look at my expectations for my life, not just those expectations I have of a partner, but core beliefs about what my life should look like. Like you, I chose the life I have, and all the responsibilities that come with it. Now, I'm starting to really examine why I made the choices I have, and whether or not they are really that important to me.
I am questioning whether what I choose to have is what I really want, I mean deep down in my soul. I'm considering getting outside the box that I have put myself in, the box that society wants me in, the box that 'normal' people are supposed to want. Slowly and deliberately, I am starting to point myself in a different direction. The direction my spirit longs to go, rather than the direction I always thought I should go. It's not an easy or quick process. In fact, I am looking at where I want to be five years from now and how I will get there.
A lot can happen in five years, and I am prepared to rethink my plan if life points me in a different direction. But, I have to say, for the first time in my life, I am actually doing what feels right, not just what's expected.
So, I guess that was a lot of words to say, listen to your gut. Be open to all possibilities, not just the ones you have trained yourself to look for. I believe my best years are yet to come, and I believe it has much to do with rethinking my priorities.
L
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Thank You for posting this topic and being so honest, it's refreshing
It's said that expectations are just resentments waiting to happen, that is true in my experience, I also find that they are insidious, as in my own MIND is insidious, I will treat you a certain way and CREATE expectations, I have found I use "good qualities" such as "love", integrity, "being nice" for that matter as "gifts with strings", I will treat someone with love, honesty, integrity, etc and EXPECT these in return.
Whether right or wrong, this has only lead to deep suffering and disastrous consequences in my life.
I think that Givelove and LTD hit two important points, Givelove points out, if they are discussed, they are no longer "expectations" they are 'agreements" between two people, if the agreement doesn't pan out, that takes a different skillset, one I am competent with. If it frequently doesn't work out, I also have tools for that, acceptance or getting my hiney out of there.
LTD hit what I think is a critical point, the one where what I THINK I want, what i THINK will make me happy frequently doesn't, I call it the "If only this then that"
If only she would....
If only I got that new truck....
The "if only this then that" is the basic operating system for society at large, if only he/she would behave I would be OK, if only I lost weight, if I only had a little more money/sex/stuff etc.
For me the only reason I learned it was a fallacy, was I had ALL my dreams come true in sobriety, and I have never been more bereft, more unhappy. I thought somehow, someway, if I got all my "outside stuff" lined up, my "insides" would be OK, and I didn't even realize I was doing it.
For me, the answer was found in the third step, I had to redo it and PAY ATTENTION to all the "good qualities" the "actor" had, I learned that "the actor" was still using all those good qualities for manipulating those around them, and they would resist heavily, until my suffering becomes acute and constant.
I also had to learn to practice being an equal partner, not either being dependent or dominant, or both at the same time, for me, that takes some doing.
I had to learn and am still learning what it truly means "To Thine Own Self Be True", I think that's the point LTD makes that is beyond priceless. As long as I have my focus outward, I will NEVER learn who or what I truly am or who or what I truly want with my life, until I sit still long enough with ME, I will just be buffeted by the winds of "circumstance" and "outside forces" like difficulty with finance and romance, until that becomes my drug of choice, drama and blame to those around me, never taking responsibility for myself or my choices, therefore being doomed to making the same mistakes over and over again or just getting "stuck" at some point in my "evolution" as a human "being" as opposed to a human "doing".
For me though, doing exactly what you have done, putting all the behavior down on "paper" and discussing it with a support group and a sponsor where you put your naked truth and are asking for help is where I find recovery. The answers are there if I am brave enough to face myself and my own behaviors. It helps to know what the problem is, and so far the problem has never not been looking at me in the mirror, it's just being honest and brave enough with myself to face my behaviors that will lead us to recovery.
I just wish I could learn to find willingness to change these things BEFORE my suffering becomes acute and constant, but oh well, I always know I am approaching a "growth period" because I get in incredible pain.
For some of us this is a tedious process, I have far more experience with it then I care to admit, I have "climbed the ladder" more times then I can count, only to find out over and over it was leaning against the wrong wall.
Thank you again for this topic.
It's said that expectations are just resentments waiting to happen, that is true in my experience, I also find that they are insidious, as in my own MIND is insidious, I will treat you a certain way and CREATE expectations, I have found I use "good qualities" such as "love", integrity, "being nice" for that matter as "gifts with strings", I will treat someone with love, honesty, integrity, etc and EXPECT these in return.
Whether right or wrong, this has only lead to deep suffering and disastrous consequences in my life.
I think that Givelove and LTD hit two important points, Givelove points out, if they are discussed, they are no longer "expectations" they are 'agreements" between two people, if the agreement doesn't pan out, that takes a different skillset, one I am competent with. If it frequently doesn't work out, I also have tools for that, acceptance or getting my hiney out of there.
LTD hit what I think is a critical point, the one where what I THINK I want, what i THINK will make me happy frequently doesn't, I call it the "If only this then that"
If only she would....
If only I got that new truck....
The "if only this then that" is the basic operating system for society at large, if only he/she would behave I would be OK, if only I lost weight, if I only had a little more money/sex/stuff etc.
For me the only reason I learned it was a fallacy, was I had ALL my dreams come true in sobriety, and I have never been more bereft, more unhappy. I thought somehow, someway, if I got all my "outside stuff" lined up, my "insides" would be OK, and I didn't even realize I was doing it.
For me, the answer was found in the third step, I had to redo it and PAY ATTENTION to all the "good qualities" the "actor" had, I learned that "the actor" was still using all those good qualities for manipulating those around them, and they would resist heavily, until my suffering becomes acute and constant.
I also had to learn to practice being an equal partner, not either being dependent or dominant, or both at the same time, for me, that takes some doing.
I had to learn and am still learning what it truly means "To Thine Own Self Be True", I think that's the point LTD makes that is beyond priceless. As long as I have my focus outward, I will NEVER learn who or what I truly am or who or what I truly want with my life, until I sit still long enough with ME, I will just be buffeted by the winds of "circumstance" and "outside forces" like difficulty with finance and romance, until that becomes my drug of choice, drama and blame to those around me, never taking responsibility for myself or my choices, therefore being doomed to making the same mistakes over and over again or just getting "stuck" at some point in my "evolution" as a human "being" as opposed to a human "doing".
For me though, doing exactly what you have done, putting all the behavior down on "paper" and discussing it with a support group and a sponsor where you put your naked truth and are asking for help is where I find recovery. The answers are there if I am brave enough to face myself and my own behaviors. It helps to know what the problem is, and so far the problem has never not been looking at me in the mirror, it's just being honest and brave enough with myself to face my behaviors that will lead us to recovery.
I just wish I could learn to find willingness to change these things BEFORE my suffering becomes acute and constant, but oh well, I always know I am approaching a "growth period" because I get in incredible pain.
For some of us this is a tedious process, I have far more experience with it then I care to admit, I have "climbed the ladder" more times then I can count, only to find out over and over it was leaning against the wrong wall.
Thank you again for this topic.
I grew my wings to fly...
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: STATE OF CONTENTMENT
Posts: 289
Although your post is not 'funny' it made me laugh. You just described who I was 14 months ago!! I am not so sure that it was or is unrealistic expectations, as what you are describing is not unrealistic. You want someone to put forth the same amount of effort in the relationship as you do, therefore you feel you dont need to express your wants/needs/desires to your partner that he should KNOW his 'part' of the relationship through maturity (saying he is mature, and obviously he isn't if he don't have a clue) and by modeling your behavior. I use to do the same thing, blow up, scream, throw a tantrum and end up doing all the work myself and harboring some really deep resentment.
You wrote..... What I am working on now is my expectations. If the man was never there to begin with, I have to do all these things on my own. Because this is the life I have chosen. I have CHOSEN to have my own house, yard, grass, trash, car, etc. It is my responsibility because this is the life I've chosen, to take care of these things. I'd have to be taking care of all these things myself anyway. thinking this way helps me to be truly GRATEFUL for the things a man does do for me.
I looked at it that way too until I started saying, WAIT ONE SECOND.. I may have to do all them things by myself if the man wasn't here BUT at least I knew that I wasn't being taken advantage of if I had only myself to worry about, myself to think about, myself to love... instead of feeling like I was being taken advantage of (which you are feeling like and trying to brush it off, therefore exploding when it piles up inside of you because he just don't GET IT)
I have learnt that when you are in a relationship and live together that either the person you live with gives and takes his/her 50% or NOTHING is worth my peace and peace of mind.
I was so afraid of being ALONE that I put up with a lot of 'stuff' just to keep that man around. Now that I have lived alone I don't know if I can ever share my home again!
With that said, if you are expressing your wants/needs/desires and you aren't being heard then maybe that person isn't the one for your life??.
And, put down the smokes.. when you finally come to terms with this relationship and decide to move onto someone who CAN and DOES know the 'rules of engagement' in a relationship the smoking can hinder a lot of things. (I smoke and it is hindering what could be a very rewarding 'friendship')
You wrote..... What I am working on now is my expectations. If the man was never there to begin with, I have to do all these things on my own. Because this is the life I have chosen. I have CHOSEN to have my own house, yard, grass, trash, car, etc. It is my responsibility because this is the life I've chosen, to take care of these things. I'd have to be taking care of all these things myself anyway. thinking this way helps me to be truly GRATEFUL for the things a man does do for me.
I looked at it that way too until I started saying, WAIT ONE SECOND.. I may have to do all them things by myself if the man wasn't here BUT at least I knew that I wasn't being taken advantage of if I had only myself to worry about, myself to think about, myself to love... instead of feeling like I was being taken advantage of (which you are feeling like and trying to brush it off, therefore exploding when it piles up inside of you because he just don't GET IT)
I have learnt that when you are in a relationship and live together that either the person you live with gives and takes his/her 50% or NOTHING is worth my peace and peace of mind.
I was so afraid of being ALONE that I put up with a lot of 'stuff' just to keep that man around. Now that I have lived alone I don't know if I can ever share my home again!
With that said, if you are expressing your wants/needs/desires and you aren't being heard then maybe that person isn't the one for your life??.
And, put down the smokes.. when you finally come to terms with this relationship and decide to move onto someone who CAN and DOES know the 'rules of engagement' in a relationship the smoking can hinder a lot of things. (I smoke and it is hindering what could be a very rewarding 'friendship')
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I've said before that for me, in the end, it was a total lack of expectation. I'd lowered the bar so far that...well, I got what I expected.
For me it's important to have realistic and concrete expectations:
1. I expect (and demand) to be treated with respect
For me it's important to have realistic and concrete expectations:
1. I expect (and demand) to be treated with respect
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Upon reading each and every one of your posts my reaction is WOW! And Thank You. It is so nice to talk to people who understand me and where I am in my life and in my Recovery. I know I will read these over and over for the next three days (I'm a little slow LOL).
Perhaps I should be posting this reply on the Alcoholics forum but I've been through four relationships since this angry behavior started in earnest (about age 27). That is the time I entered active Recovery from alcoholism. I also think it may have been brought on by my first relationship with a crack addict who relapsed. In response to his atrocious behavior and treatment of me, I pretty much checked out for 2 years in a deep, dark, drowning depression. That is when I learned about CoDependence and how I had been affected from growing up in an alcoholic home. This marked the beginning of my True Recovery.
In reading books I think I identify what occurred in the crack addict relationship as a majorly traumatic event in my life, from which I've never really recovered. But there are so many contributing factors to these anger events that I can't figure out why I behave this way. I feel like I'm deep in a dark forest and I just can't make my way out. There are so many trees and I am confused, turning every which way making me even more frantic.
I so wish to find a person to have a relationship like GIVELOVE talks about. One where there is rationality and the ability to reach agreement. I'd like to say each time a relationship fails that it was mostly because the OTHER PERSON was not able to be "normal" but sheesh, since I entered Recovery I know that is not looking at myself or even being honest with myself. Of course I contribute to the problem some how but I don't know how.
I have discovered that geting INTO these "bad" relationships in the first place is directly related to Relapses and Lapses in my Recovery from alcoholism. But I have had ONE relationship with ONE normal, healthy person who is not addicted to anything, and STILL I acted this way.
I do live alone now and I love it for all the reason many of us love to live alone. I only have myself to worry about and man, my house is CLEAN!!! (especially since the crack addict I tried to help has finally left me alone). But it is a lonely life. And it is a lot of work to take care of the house, garden, yard, car, and go to work 40 hours a week. I don't work because it's what I think I should do, or because it is "normal" I work because I enjoy it and I like making the money to support myself at a lifestyle that agrees with me. I grew up at poverty level and I am NEVER going back there!
Ago's posts really spoke to me because it is an honest expose of what is partly behind addictive behavior. I think a lot of us "CoDependents" can learn from Ago's perspective. The piece that really validated my feelings and helped me to better understand that I am not alone was the following:
This really supports and confirms for me a BIG part of living with and loving someone who is addicted. For all the times I ask myself and others "HOW could he do this to me?" and "WHY does he do this to me?" and anwering these questions with "He just doesn't love or care about me" reading Ago's words affirms that The addict's behavior really has NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. Maybe that is the lesson here. Maybe it is that my anger is a result of me thinking that they behave in certain ways BECAUSE of me. Maybe I feel I am not worth another person's love in a romantic relationship. That just does not jive though with my general feelings of self-worth, which are unabashedly pretty high.
Thank you so much for listening and commenting. I feel like I'm making a bit of progress here.
Perhaps I should be posting this reply on the Alcoholics forum but I've been through four relationships since this angry behavior started in earnest (about age 27). That is the time I entered active Recovery from alcoholism. I also think it may have been brought on by my first relationship with a crack addict who relapsed. In response to his atrocious behavior and treatment of me, I pretty much checked out for 2 years in a deep, dark, drowning depression. That is when I learned about CoDependence and how I had been affected from growing up in an alcoholic home. This marked the beginning of my True Recovery.
In reading books I think I identify what occurred in the crack addict relationship as a majorly traumatic event in my life, from which I've never really recovered. But there are so many contributing factors to these anger events that I can't figure out why I behave this way. I feel like I'm deep in a dark forest and I just can't make my way out. There are so many trees and I am confused, turning every which way making me even more frantic.
I so wish to find a person to have a relationship like GIVELOVE talks about. One where there is rationality and the ability to reach agreement. I'd like to say each time a relationship fails that it was mostly because the OTHER PERSON was not able to be "normal" but sheesh, since I entered Recovery I know that is not looking at myself or even being honest with myself. Of course I contribute to the problem some how but I don't know how.
I have discovered that geting INTO these "bad" relationships in the first place is directly related to Relapses and Lapses in my Recovery from alcoholism. But I have had ONE relationship with ONE normal, healthy person who is not addicted to anything, and STILL I acted this way.
I do live alone now and I love it for all the reason many of us love to live alone. I only have myself to worry about and man, my house is CLEAN!!! (especially since the crack addict I tried to help has finally left me alone). But it is a lonely life. And it is a lot of work to take care of the house, garden, yard, car, and go to work 40 hours a week. I don't work because it's what I think I should do, or because it is "normal" I work because I enjoy it and I like making the money to support myself at a lifestyle that agrees with me. I grew up at poverty level and I am NEVER going back there!
Ago's posts really spoke to me because it is an honest expose of what is partly behind addictive behavior. I think a lot of us "CoDependents" can learn from Ago's perspective. The piece that really validated my feelings and helped me to better understand that I am not alone was the following:
For me, the answer was found in the third step, I had to redo it and PAY ATTENTION to all the "good qualities" the "actor" had, I learned that "the actor" was still using all those good qualities for manipulating those around them, and they would resist heavily, until my suffering becomes acute and constant.
Thank you so much for listening and commenting. I feel like I'm making a bit of progress here.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Hi,
Like you, I ask myself these questions. I have posted here similar questions as I don't know what the "answer" is.
My exabf and my non-A exbf before him both told me that my expectations were too high. I lowered them to remain in those relationships and thought that I was bad or wrong to "expect" certain things from them. I expected them to be honest with me and follow through on promises, commitments, etc...
Not sure that I had expectations that were too high, but rather in those two relationships, expecting those two people to be something they talked about but did not act upon was too much. Both are actually very great dates, fun to be around (the A was earlier on), but neither had much desire to put others ahead himself. I PICKED two grown babies.
Both are older than I am, so I thought that this meant they were mature and unselfish. I was naive. I think that they wanted to date a younger person, because they were stuck in a "younger" immature mindset. As I got older, they stayed in that mindset of party, have fun, no responsibilities, but I grew up. The age difference and life experiences played a role that I was oblivious to until I looked back.
Maybe people grow in different ways and that contributes to the problems. Expectations change as time goes on and life moves forward. I guess if the expectations don't match up for both parties, then one might say that expections are too high.
Like you, I ask myself these questions. I have posted here similar questions as I don't know what the "answer" is.
My exabf and my non-A exbf before him both told me that my expectations were too high. I lowered them to remain in those relationships and thought that I was bad or wrong to "expect" certain things from them. I expected them to be honest with me and follow through on promises, commitments, etc...
Not sure that I had expectations that were too high, but rather in those two relationships, expecting those two people to be something they talked about but did not act upon was too much. Both are actually very great dates, fun to be around (the A was earlier on), but neither had much desire to put others ahead himself. I PICKED two grown babies.
Both are older than I am, so I thought that this meant they were mature and unselfish. I was naive. I think that they wanted to date a younger person, because they were stuck in a "younger" immature mindset. As I got older, they stayed in that mindset of party, have fun, no responsibilities, but I grew up. The age difference and life experiences played a role that I was oblivious to until I looked back.
Maybe people grow in different ways and that contributes to the problems. Expectations change as time goes on and life moves forward. I guess if the expectations don't match up for both parties, then one might say that expections are too high.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Thank you missfixit for your post. It goes far in validating my place in this world and my feelings.
My relationship with my non-addicted xbf (which I am so grateful to have had!) taught me that it is not just alcoholism and addiction that create these problems in relationships. I had attributed so much to my Dad (alcoholism) and my upbrining, and my codependent tendencies that I literally thought that all my problems were due to alcoholism, mine and everyone else's.
I'm beginning to believe that this is the only way for me. Just dates. Don't expect anything regarding relationship. Just have fun. What an empty life.
Nothing against the men, so sorry if I offend anyone, but I have heard so many women say this, women married to both alcoholics and non-alcoholics.
Yup, seen that too over these years and still see it in others. I find that if a guy hasn't decided to settle down in his OWN life by age 30, it is never going to happen.
That is an interesting idea. Maybe some people never "grow up" in the way we understand and perceive "grown up."
Thanks for sharing.
My exabf and my non-A exbf before him both told me that my expectations were too high.
Both are actually very great dates, fun to be around
I PICKED two grown babies.
I think that they wanted to date a younger person, because they were stuck in a "younger" immature mindset. As I got older, they stayed in that mindset of party, have fun, no responsibilities, but I grew up.
Maybe people grow in different ways and that contributes to the problems.
Thanks for sharing.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
And it is a lot of work to take care of the house, garden, yard, car, and go to work 40 hours a week. I don't work because it's what I think I should do, or because it is "normal" I work because I enjoy it and I like making the money to support myself at a lifestyle that agrees with me. I grew up at poverty level and I am NEVER going back there!
I grew up in a poor alcoholic home as well. That experience drove me to want a good steady income, and all the things I didn't have growing up. Also, my family was very transient. We moved an average of twice a year throughout my childhood. That experience drove me to want 'roots,' a permanent address, in addition to the financial stability I craved.
It's only now that I have all those things I was convinced I needed, that I have the luxury of asking who am I, really? Is it worth sacrificing my free spirit and creativity in order to make up for what my parents didn't provide? Do I really want and need a big house, large yard, and all the work and responsibility to maintain it, or am I just trying to prove something to myself and the rest of the world? Does having all these 'things' really make my heart sing, or is it just a desperate attempt to provide for the child in me that wasn't provided for?
I still don't know the answers to these questions, but that I'm even asking them is progress. It's difficult and uncomfortable, which is a sure sign I'm growing in some way.
L
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I've had both, the transient life with a sometimes don't-care attitude, and sometimes with the opportunity to "be a teen or 20-something again (went back to school at about age 31), AND finally started settling down at about age 35. I like my life now. I still want to have the settled down life, not because of my past, but because I have found peace and serenity in my "boring" routine life. I love it and I won't let the opinions, attitudes or behaviors of others sway me from what I now know I need.
It took some work to get to this place. When I first started settling down at 35, I felt claustrophic making these decisions to for instance take this job. I also was afraid my creativity and free spirit would be stifled...So, I always give myself an OUT before I step IN. I tell my self things like, "OK, I'll take this job now and if I don't like my life in 5 years, I'll just get a new one." Same with the house. So far, I haven't run away from any of it. Whew!
For me anymore what makes my heart sing is my serenity. When I have serenity, I get so much joy from little things. I live a very simple life. I do not allow television or magazines into my home, nor the internet. All television and magazine are, are advertisements to get you to BUY things. And I've found that no THING makes me happy. And when I see on T.V. and magazines the way "normal" is presented, all it does is make me feel bad that either I don't look like that or I don't have that. I guess I'm just more sensitive to or vigilant about these kinds of things than others, IDK. I just know that this was a conscious change in perception, attitude, and behavior that occurred when I first began in my Recovery.
But, I too have it all, everything I could hope for and more, more than I could ever have dreamed of. And if it all burned down or disappeared tomorrow, I would be just fine.
If I need to use the internet, I go to the library. I know this sounds inconvenient but internet in the home carries with it the same principle as readily-available alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, drugs, etc. We have turned into the immediate-satisfaction society and I fight it every day.
I have to make these choices every day of my life. Just the same as I have to decide whether or not I will allow alcoholism and drug addiction into my life every day. It's hard but it's getting easier the more I experience my peace and serenity.
Thanks for sharing. You really make me think.
It took some work to get to this place. When I first started settling down at 35, I felt claustrophic making these decisions to for instance take this job. I also was afraid my creativity and free spirit would be stifled...So, I always give myself an OUT before I step IN. I tell my self things like, "OK, I'll take this job now and if I don't like my life in 5 years, I'll just get a new one." Same with the house. So far, I haven't run away from any of it. Whew!
For me anymore what makes my heart sing is my serenity. When I have serenity, I get so much joy from little things. I live a very simple life. I do not allow television or magazines into my home, nor the internet. All television and magazine are, are advertisements to get you to BUY things. And I've found that no THING makes me happy. And when I see on T.V. and magazines the way "normal" is presented, all it does is make me feel bad that either I don't look like that or I don't have that. I guess I'm just more sensitive to or vigilant about these kinds of things than others, IDK. I just know that this was a conscious change in perception, attitude, and behavior that occurred when I first began in my Recovery.
But, I too have it all, everything I could hope for and more, more than I could ever have dreamed of. And if it all burned down or disappeared tomorrow, I would be just fine.
If I need to use the internet, I go to the library. I know this sounds inconvenient but internet in the home carries with it the same principle as readily-available alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, drugs, etc. We have turned into the immediate-satisfaction society and I fight it every day.
I have to make these choices every day of my life. Just the same as I have to decide whether or not I will allow alcoholism and drug addiction into my life every day. It's hard but it's getting easier the more I experience my peace and serenity.
Thanks for sharing. You really make me think.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Maybe having a partner with similar goals and priorities is the way to go. Not forcing a relationship on someone or being swep away by another, but rather knowing yourself enough to know what you like, don't, find acceptable and unacceptable. That way when you meet someone who you click with then you can notice the goals and priorities rather than chemistry...wow don't I sound fun.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Yes, fun -- I know exactly what you are talking about! Those guys like me are just so BORING! Good Lord, I really need a shrink! Plus, why the hell would I want to be with a guy who is JUST LIKE ME? I'm ALREADY boring enough as it is! LOL!
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Last night I saw the movie The Ugly Truth. Chick flick but cute. I identified with the main character who is a serious control nut. (I hate seeing myself in characters who are supposed to be extreme versions of certain personalities). She has a check list for men she dates. Never had a check list, but there are external things that are immediate turn offs for me (wow, maybe my expectations are high, smile).
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