Denial?

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Old 08-16-2009, 03:39 AM
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Denial?

I'm always confused when people say that the addict is in denial. I wanted to post this is the alcoholics forum but am too shy...

Are they in denial because they honestly have NO idea that they have a problem?

Or are they in denial because they wake up, realize they have a problem and are living hell and then pretend that they don't feel this way after drowning their sorrows in booze? Is there some part of them that knows, really knows, what a dark place they're in and that they could possibly be very, very wrong (about any number of things)?

I just want to know if my xabf realizes anything. Even if it's just for the first ten seconds he wakes up in the morning when his friend "Jameson" isn't within arms reach. The ten seconds where he's just in his bed alone with his thoughts. Does he KNOW?
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:44 AM
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Good morning, C4H!

Keep in mind that this is just my humble opinion and experience:

Denial by an addict seems to come in two forms....the denying they do to us, their friends and family (even when caught red-handed), and the denying they do to themselves over their addiction.

Denial seems to me to be a universal human self-protection mechanism. They deny their use to us so that they "won't get into trouble and we won't nag", and they deny their use to themselves so they don't have to think they have a problem.

Both things are used to protect the continuation of the addiction.

But.....what are you doing good for yourself these days? This is your x, right? All of our hoping and praying that the alcoholic/addict in our life will finally "see the light" won't do them any good, we just torture ourselves. You deserve a glorious, drama free, addiction free life that is overflowing with joy! What can you do today to take a tiny step toward that?

Hugs and prayers,
HG
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:09 AM
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This always happens after I see my ex at work. He just looks so destroyed by this disease... it's hard to stop the wheels from turning.

Today I am going to the movies, job applicating and then the gym (ha! we'll see about that one...)
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:15 AM
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Hey Crazy4Him,

I've done a lot of wondering about my now XABF since we've split, too.

I wonder if he really misses me and regrets his behavior. I wonder if he just misses his enabler and regrets not being successful in keeping me around.

I got to wondering the other day if he was actually going to follow through with his declaration of seeking sobriety and changing his life or if that was still just a line of BS.

I know I wind up wondering about him because it's a little too unnerving to wonder about me and my future. Things are looking brighter for him by the day (better job offer, new friends, moving into a new and better place) while things are slugging along for me. It's not bad, just nothing to brag about, ya know?

It sounds like you are getting up and out and on with life and that's fantastic! I'm going to take your lead and try to do something fun for just me today.

Peace.

Alice
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:42 AM
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Are they in denial because they honestly have NO idea that they have a problem?

Or are they in denial because they wake up, realize they have a problem and are living hell and then pretend that they don't feel this way after drowning their sorrows in booze? Is there some part of them that knows, really knows, what a dark place they're in and that they could possibly be very, very wrong (about any number of things)?
I can tell you from my own years of practicing my addiction that it is BOTH. Alcohol and drugs gave me a 'false sense of reality' and kept me numb. Livng in the addiction and the 'other reality' meant I didn't look at me heck I didn't even look at me in the mirror if I could help it. Being a slave to King Alcohol and king Drugs I was focused on where my next 'buzz' was coming from, how much I had left, and how was I going to get more.

In recovery for many years now, I have seen the same thing over and over with those still practicing. The FOCUS becomes very narrow, and HP help anyone that gets in the way of the A and their DOC.

And, unfortunately, some A's are so far into their addiction that they never get that 'light bulb moment,' 'moment of clarity,' whatever you want to call it

It is sad. It is horrible. It puts the A into a HELL that is very very hard to get out of, and it destroys people, families and loved ones.

Living in Denial is a very REAL part of active addiction.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:19 AM
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My AH was a dry drunk when I left. After rehab and meetings, he was still abusive to me and my daughter - because it was me that was the problem.

After leaving, he's still abusive any chance he gets....because he's the victim, it's all me.

Maybe that's not exactly denial, but I think it plays a part.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:33 AM
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Denial is the primary defense mechanism for the alcoholic or addict. You might try reading this on the web... Addiction and Its Mechanisms of Defense

It helped me wrap my mind around the strange world that is addiction and alcoholism.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:45 AM
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From TrainWreck's link:

Though there is obviously a gray zone and sort of 'No man's land' between wholly unconscious defensive psychodynamic denial and half-conscious deliberate distortion and evasion of the truth, the foundations of true denial rest solidly upon a profoundly misconceived and yet firmly and unshakably believed private version of reality that is relatively or absolutely immune to outside influence. In conscious and deliberate deception the individual remains aware of the difference between his own truth claims and what he realizes is the actual truth of the matter; in psychodynamic denial he believes his own deceptions and distortions and therefore regards the contrary opinions of others as false and their efforts to convince him otherwise as misguided at best and malevolent at worst.

snip

What kind of a world view is compatible with addiction? Almost any philosophy that does not include and will not permit happiness, healthy and balanced behavior, sustaining relationships, rigorous honesty with and about oneself, and some kind of spiritual connection(even though it may not be called that). Addiction thrives best in an atmosphere of unhappiness, resentment, alienation and estrangement, secrecy, mistrust and in most cases, ultimate despair of meaning. And it cannot continue for long in the opposite atmosphere, i.e. one of happiness, emotional well-being, healthy relationships and genuine honesty. Serious addiction, therefore, necessarily points in the direction of an unhappy and dissatisfied world view, and away from the opposite, happier and healthier perspective. A happy addict is a contradiction in terms.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:14 PM
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My ABF has known and acknowleged that he is an alcoholic, since he was 18 years old.
I asked him once, about denial and he thought it funny. He said " it would be a waste of time to say I'm not an alky, when I prove I am everytime I drink. Who would do the crap things I have unless they were past it, these things weren't funny at all, but I did them over and over again. Anyone who makes a fool of themselves or gets nasty when drunk, drinks to get drunk and then says they don't have a big problem with it all, HAS a REAL BIG PROBLEM."

I sometimes have wished that my ABF was in denial, at least then there was hope that he would one day get the message and get help.
However, what do you do when he KNOWS and ADMITS he can't drink sociallly, HAS had help and rehabs etc, and STILL GOES BACK to drinking?

Thus far he has been sober and working on it for a few months, and it is different to other times hes quit, but that bottle still hangs overhead like the sword of Damocles and we don't know if or when it will fall.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:36 PM
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I stopped trying to understand my STXAH's behavior because it was driving me crazy. I finally realized that it didn't matter what he thought at all.

If he really didn't know he had a problem does that mean if I say the "magic" words he will be convinced he has a problem and "poof" he will awaken and change and thank me forever?

OR

If he is in denial and just needs me to say the "magic words" that will snap him out of it could I "save him" from himself and we'd live happily ever after?

Both are unrealistic really, as I have no control over what he thinks or his actions. I obsessed about this same point for months, but finally realized that I will never really know the answer (I can't climb inside his mind) and in the end it didn't matter as I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. Whatever the answer was, there is no "magic" words or formula that I can say to change him.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:46 PM
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Addiction, Lies and Relationships

This is the best description of alcoholism and it's effects on others I have ever read

If you need to skip to the last three paragraphs to read about it's probable effects on you, please do, I realize it's very long.

It took me a bit to find it, but here goes:
Addiction means always having to say you are sorry à and finally, when being sorry is no longer good enough for others who have been repeatedly hurt by the addiction, addiction often means being sorry all alone.

Addiction is often said to be a disease of denial à but it is also a disease of regret. When the addictive process has lasted long enough and penetrated deeply enough into the life and mind of the addict, the empty space left by the losses caused by progressive, destructive addiction is filled up with regrets, if-onlys and could-have-beens. In early addiction the addict tends to live in the future; in middle and late addiction he begins to dwell more and more in the past. And it is usually an unhappy, bitterly regretted past.

The first casualty of addiction, like that of war, is the truth. At first the addict merely denies the truth to himself. But as the addiction, like a malignant tumor, slowly and progressively expands and invades more and more of the healthy tissue of his life and mind and world, the addict begins to deny the truth to others as well as to himself. He becomes a practiced and profligate liar in all matters related to the defense and preservation of his addiction, even though prior to the onset of his addictive illness, and often still in areas as yet untouched by the addiction, he may be scrupulously honest.

First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks.

Because addiction by definition is an irrational, unbalanced and unhealthy behavior pattern resulting from an abnormal obsession, it simply cannot continue to exist under normal circumstances without the progressive attack upon and distortion of reality resulting from the operation of its propaganda and psychological warfare brigades. The fundamentally insane and unsupportable thinking and behavior of the addict must be justified and rationalized so that the addiction can continue and progress.

One of the chief ways the addiction protects and strengthens itself is by a psychology of personal exceptionalism which permits the addict to maintain a simultaneous double-entry bookkeeping of addictive and non-addictive realities and to reconcile the two when required by reference to the unique, special considerations that àat least in his own mind- happen to apply to his particular case.

The form of the logic for this personal exceptionalism is:

o Under ordinary circumstances and for most people X is undesirable/irrational;

o My circumstances are not ordinary and I am different from most people;

o Therefore X is not undesirable/irrational in my case - or not as undesirable/irrational as it would be in other cases.

Armed with this powerful tool of personal exceptionalism that is a virtual "Open Sesame" for every difficult ethical conundrum he is apt to face, the addict is free to take whatever measures are required for the preservation and progress of his addiction, while simultaneously maintaining his allegiance to the principles that would certainly apply if only his case were not a special one.

In treatment and rehabilitation centers this personal exceptionalism is commonly called "terminal uniqueness." The individual in the grip of this delusion is able to convince himself though not always others that his circumstances are such that ordinary rules and norms of behavior, rules and norms that he himself concurs with when it comes to other people, do not fairly or fully fit himself at the present time and hence must be bent or stretched just sufficiently to make room for his special needs. In most cases this plea for accommodation is acknowledged to be a temporary one and accompanied by a pledge or plan to return to the conventional "rules of engagement" as soon as circumstances permit. This is the basic mindset of "IÇll quit tomorrow" and "If you had the problems I do youÇd drink and drug, too!"

The personal exceptionalism of the addict, along with his willingness to lie both by commission and omission in the protection and furtherance of his addiction, place a severe strain upon his relationships with others. It does not usually take those who are often around the addict long to conclude that he simply cannot be believed in matters pertaining to his addiction. He may swear that he is clean and sober and intends to stay that way when in fact he is under the influence or planning to become so at the first opportunity; he may minimize or conceal the amount of substance consumed; and he may make up all manner of excuses and alibis whose usually transparent purpose is to provide his addiction the room it requires to continue operating.

One of the most damaging interpersonal scenarios occurs when the addict, usually as the consequence of some unforeseen crisis directly stemming from his addiction, promises with all of the sincerity at his command to stop his addictive behavior and never under any circumstances to resume it again.

"I promise," the addict pleads, sometimes with tears in his eyes. "I know I have been wrong, and this time I have learned my lesson. YouÇll never have to worry about me again. It will never happen again!"

But it does happen again à and again, and again, and again. Each time the promises, each time their breaking. Those who first responded to his sincere sounding promises of reform with relief, hope and at times even joy soon become disillusioned and bitter.

Spouses and other family members begin to ask a perfectly logical question: "If you really love and care about me, why do you keep doing what you know hurts me so badly?" To this the addict has no answer except to promise once again to do better, "this time for real, youÇll see!" or to respond with grievances and complaints of his own. The question of fairness arises as the addict attempts to extenuate his own admitted transgressions by repeated references to what he considers the equal or greater faults of those who complain of his addictive behavior. This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "IÇm not hurting anybody but myself!" He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused that hurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do!

Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addictÇs sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addictÇs behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.

As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.

Addiction protects and augments itself by means of a bodyguard of lies, distortions and evasions that taken together amount to a full scale assault upon consensual reality. Because addiction involves irrational and unhealthy thinking and behavior, its presence results in cognitive dissonance both within the addict himself and in the intersubjective realm of ongoing personal relationships.

In order for the addiction to continue it requires an increasingly idiosyncratic private reality subject to the needs of the addictive process and indifferent or even actively hostile to the healthy needs of the addict and those around him. This encroachment of the fundamentally autistic, even insane private reality of the addict upon the reality of his family and close associates inevitably causes friction and churn as natural corrective feedback mechanisms come into usually futile play in an effort to restore the addict's increasingly deviant reality towards normal. Questions, discussions, presentations of facts, confrontations, pleas, threats, ultimatums and arguments are characteristic of this process, which in more fortunate and less severe cases of addiction may sometimes actually succeed in its aim of arresting the addiction. But in the more serious or advanced cases all such human counter-attacks upon the addiction, even, indeed especially when they come from those closest and dearest to the addict, fall upon deaf ears and a hardened heart. The addict's obsession-driven, monomaniacal private reality prevents him from being able to hear and assimilate anything that would if acknowledged pose a threat to the continuance of his addiction.

At this stage of addiction the addict is in fact functionally insane. It is usually quite impossible, even sometimes harmful to attempt to talk him out of his delusions regarding his addiction. This situation is similar to that encountered in other psychotic illnesses, schizophrenia for example, in which the individual is convinced of the truth of things that are manifestly untrue to everyone else. Someone who is deluded in the belief that he is the target of a worldwide conspiracy by some organization will always be able to answer any rational objection to his theory in a fashion that preserves the integrity of his belief system. Even when he is presented with hard and fast data that unequivocally disproves some of his allegations, he will easily find a way to sidestep the contradiction and persist in his false beliefs. (He can for example easily claim that the contradictory data is itself part of the conspiracy and is expressly fabricated for the purpose of making him look crazy! Anyone who has ever tried -uselessly- to reason with delusional patients knows the remarkable creativity and ingenuity that can be displayed in maintaining the viability, at least to the patient, of the most bizarre and obviously erroneous beliefs.)

The addict's delusions that he is harming neither himself nor others by his addictive behaviors; that he is in control of his addiction rather than vice versa; that his addiction is necessary or even useful and good for him; that the circumstances of his life justify his addiction; that people who indicate concern about him are enemies and not friends, and all other such beliefs which are patently and transparently false to everyone but himself, are seldom correctable by reason or objective data and thus indicate the presence of genuinely psychotic thinking which, if it is more subtle than the often grotesque delusions of the schizophrenic, is by virtue of its very subtlety often far more insidious and dangerous to the addict and those with whom he comes into contact. For in the case of the delusional schizophrenic most people are quickly aware that they are dealing with someone not in their right mind - but in the case of the equally or at times even more insane addict, thinking that is in fact delusional may be and commonly is misattributed to potentially remediable voluntary choices and moral decisions, resulting in still more confusion and muddying of the already turbulent waters around the addict and his addiction.

In many cases the addict responds to negative feedback from others about his addiction by following the maxim of "Attack the attacker." Those who confront or complain about the addict's irrational and unhealthy behaviors are criticized, analyzed and dismissed by the addict as untrustworthy or biased observers and false messengers. Their own vulnerabilities may be ruthlessly exposed and exploited by the addict in his desperate defense of his addiction. In many cases, depending upon their own psychological makeup and the nature of their relationship to the addict, they themselves may begin to manifest significant psychological symptoms. Emotional and social withdrawal, secrecy, fear and shame can cause the mental health of those closely involved with addicts to deteriorate. Almost always there is fear, anger, confusion and depression resulting from repeated damaging exposures to the addict's unhealthy and irrational behaviors and their corresponding and supporting private reality.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:52 PM
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Denial for me took the form of a separation, or kind of a suspension, from reality. Not really worrying about the fact that, gee... I'm drinking an awful lot, or at unusual times of day.... somehow I just kind of justified or sloughed off any concerns I had about it.... I knew there was a problem, I just didn't care.... I denied or minimized the problems I caused myself and others....

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Old 08-17-2009, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy4Him View Post
Are they in denial because they honestly have NO idea that they have a problem?
Well, shy or not, I'll give you one alcoholic's take on it. Denial is a step up from the delusion that most alcoholics live in. Denial is knowing I have a problem, and refusing to do anything about it. For the longest time of my active drinking, I really had no idea I had a problem. I could not see the truth. My alcoholic life seemed like the only normal one. Everybody around me thought I had a problem, but I couldn't see it. Denial would have been a step in the right direction.

When the consequences of my own actions became harder and harder to ignore, I simply switched delusions. Then, I knew I had a problem, but I had the delusion that I could manage it. I falsely believed that I could get it under control.

My behavior was defined by rationalization, justification, and lies. I always had to explain why I was doing something. And as I heard myself tell you why I was doing it, I believed my own lie. Complete utter insanity made perfectly reasonable sense to me.

Delusion, denial, doesn't matter. What are the actions and how do they affect you? There's a great tool of inventory that AA gives to alcoholics. That tool asks me look at how the things I dislike affect me. Doesn't matter how it affects the other person or what the cause is. How does the thing I'm angry at affect me?

There's no wiggle room with that approach. How does your xabf's actions affect you? It gets the focus right off of him and on to you.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:11 PM
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Ago I read that entire thing a whole ago and it was good to read it, again. And moving, too.
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