New member looking for advice (long post)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
New member looking for advice (long post)
Hello, I’m new here and would like to share my situation. I apologize for the length of this post but I wanted to try to give as clear a picture of my circumstances as possible.
I’m been married to my husband who I believe is a functional alcoholic for 24 years and we have three teenage sons between the ages of 14 and 18. Early on in our relationship, I did notice that my AH seemed compulsive about alcohol at times and he would get drunk by himself on occasion but I didn’t think about it very seriously. At the same time, however, he was abusive at times (mostly verbally and emotionally but a few times physically) with or without alcohol and our relationship was like being on a rollercoaster. We argued a lot about his drinking, his abusive patterns, and the way he treated our children. I became depressed about the relationship. At times he could be quite mean to the children and he was constantly yelling and at times trying to intimidate them. He can be quite controlling at times.
We went to marriage counseling several years ago. The joint sessions were not particularly useful however. My AH kept saying we could work out our problems ourselves and eventually we stopped going. Around this time, my AH enrolled in a moderate drinking program to try to cut down on his drinking. He followed the program but never actually implemented any of the guidelines or strategies to drink moderately. I also started seeing the marriage counselor alone and it was only then that things began to turn around. I learnt to detach myself, to set boundaries and to assert myself more. I felt much better!
Eventually, there was much less fighting and my AH began treating me in a much more respectful way and he was better with the children as well. However, the drinking continued and he still had issues dealing with his anger at me and the children. At my insistence that he do something, he finally enrolled in an online anger management course. Some of the techniques helped him to control himself better and I did notice an improvement but the drinking remained a problem.
Finally last fall, he went to his doctor and told him he was depressed and also that he drank too much. His doctor told him he was drinking because of depression and put him on Prozac, telling him it should help him cut down on his drinking. My AH at that point admitted he had a drinking problem and was sincerely motivated to get his drinking under control. The first thing I noticed with him on Prozac was that his anger was greatly diminished and it’s remained that way since.
For a few months after being on Prozac, my AH tried to cut down on the drinking, even stopping for a couple of weeks at a time, but then he eventually gave up as he found it too difficult and he now cannot get through the day without 4-6 beers every day of the week and sometimes more (he hides what he’s drinking at times). His doctor has already told him that he should consider AA if he cannot control his drinking. Although he drinks every day, he doesn’t always appear to be drunk every day. Some days he drinks more slowly than others. Other times, he guzzles his drinks so he can appear quite drunk after a few drinks. He cannot remember anything when he’s drunk, we cannot carry on an intelligent conversation and he picks fights with the children and can be very unpleasant to be around. He usually starts drinking in the late afternoon and ends up spending most evenings after dinner sitting in front of the television. I try to ignore him when he’s drunk and not interact with him as much as possible and just do my own thing. On one occasion I refused to eat dinner with him because he was drunk.
I’ve often considered divorcing him over the years. When I weigh the pros and cons of divorce, I keep coming back to the same reasons why I seem unable to do it: my sons seem to be well-adjusted and content. They do well in school, they have good friends, and when I talk to them about their dad’s drinking or his behavior and how they feel about it, they seem to have a healthy attitude (“that’s his problem and he’s the one harming himself”) and they also are quite assertive with their dad when he becomes unreasonable. I don’t ever try to pretend that my AH’s drinking or behavior is normal or acceptable with my children. Even if I divorced him, they would still be around his dysfunctional behavior – whereas with all of us under one roof, I can see what’s going on and I can teach my children healthy ways of responding (or not responding as the case may be) to their dad.
Also, I doubt very much my AH would give me custody if we divorced and I’m not interested in mounting a court battle. I have spoken to several lawyers who have all advised to try to work out my problems and if not, to try as much as possible to avoid involving the courts. I expect if we did divorce we would probably end up with joint custody (at my AH’s request) and that’s another reason stopping me from filing” I want to see my kids every day – not only one week out of two. In short, I’m not convinced my kids would be happier if we were divorced. The other reason stopping me from filing for divorce is financial security.
Am I missing something? Are my kids suffering and not sharing that with me?
On the flip side, we enjoy many family times together and when my AH is not in a destructive mode, he can be great company. He also contributes his fair share to the home in terms of upkeep, childcare, chores, and bringing in a salary. We share many of the same goals. However I feel like I’m living with 2 different people: the nice guy that others see and that I often see and the mean, dysfunctional other person my AH can be, usually made worse by drinking. He grew up in an abusive home – his mother was abusive in every way and both parents are heavy drinkers and a brother is a recovered alcoholic. When I’ve read books about abusive men, he seems to fit the profile of an emotional abuser if I look at his behavior over the entire course of our long relationship but he seems to cycle between this and being a really nice person to be around. We rarely go more than a week before there’s an unpleasant incident with my AH and there are times where it can be every day or every few days. I feel terribly angry at him at these times and this can last for days. But overall the incidents are short-lived and the rest of the time our home life has a routine and order to it that I find comforting and predictable. I’ve also noticed that my AH will be extra kind and calm when he senses that I’m distant from him. He does recognize that he has issues but he always says he’s working on them and things are better and he’s improved a lot (which is true) and that I shouldn’t expect perfection.
I also think he's still depressed. I've suggested he get counselling but he's not interested. Most of the time he also admits he has a drinking problem and I do believe he recognizes he’s an alcoholic. However, he’s not ready to stop drinking. I don’t have any illusions that he will stop anytime soon. I’ve also noticed that his drinking has gotten worse over the years. He has withdrawal symptoms if he tries to go a day without drinking and he also seems to have developed memory problems and digestive issues that I believe are alcohol-related. He has also admitted to me he has blackouts.
He has made efforts to improve and I can say for sure that he is not abusive like he used to be and he is way less angry than he used to be but his drinking is still problematic to me. I try hard to let go of my anger at him but there is distance between us and I don’t even know anymore if I want to be closer. I seem unable to make a decision about the marriage and I hate how much time I spend thinking about it and looking for a sign that will tell me what to do. Any advice?
I’m been married to my husband who I believe is a functional alcoholic for 24 years and we have three teenage sons between the ages of 14 and 18. Early on in our relationship, I did notice that my AH seemed compulsive about alcohol at times and he would get drunk by himself on occasion but I didn’t think about it very seriously. At the same time, however, he was abusive at times (mostly verbally and emotionally but a few times physically) with or without alcohol and our relationship was like being on a rollercoaster. We argued a lot about his drinking, his abusive patterns, and the way he treated our children. I became depressed about the relationship. At times he could be quite mean to the children and he was constantly yelling and at times trying to intimidate them. He can be quite controlling at times.
We went to marriage counseling several years ago. The joint sessions were not particularly useful however. My AH kept saying we could work out our problems ourselves and eventually we stopped going. Around this time, my AH enrolled in a moderate drinking program to try to cut down on his drinking. He followed the program but never actually implemented any of the guidelines or strategies to drink moderately. I also started seeing the marriage counselor alone and it was only then that things began to turn around. I learnt to detach myself, to set boundaries and to assert myself more. I felt much better!
Eventually, there was much less fighting and my AH began treating me in a much more respectful way and he was better with the children as well. However, the drinking continued and he still had issues dealing with his anger at me and the children. At my insistence that he do something, he finally enrolled in an online anger management course. Some of the techniques helped him to control himself better and I did notice an improvement but the drinking remained a problem.
Finally last fall, he went to his doctor and told him he was depressed and also that he drank too much. His doctor told him he was drinking because of depression and put him on Prozac, telling him it should help him cut down on his drinking. My AH at that point admitted he had a drinking problem and was sincerely motivated to get his drinking under control. The first thing I noticed with him on Prozac was that his anger was greatly diminished and it’s remained that way since.
For a few months after being on Prozac, my AH tried to cut down on the drinking, even stopping for a couple of weeks at a time, but then he eventually gave up as he found it too difficult and he now cannot get through the day without 4-6 beers every day of the week and sometimes more (he hides what he’s drinking at times). His doctor has already told him that he should consider AA if he cannot control his drinking. Although he drinks every day, he doesn’t always appear to be drunk every day. Some days he drinks more slowly than others. Other times, he guzzles his drinks so he can appear quite drunk after a few drinks. He cannot remember anything when he’s drunk, we cannot carry on an intelligent conversation and he picks fights with the children and can be very unpleasant to be around. He usually starts drinking in the late afternoon and ends up spending most evenings after dinner sitting in front of the television. I try to ignore him when he’s drunk and not interact with him as much as possible and just do my own thing. On one occasion I refused to eat dinner with him because he was drunk.
I’ve often considered divorcing him over the years. When I weigh the pros and cons of divorce, I keep coming back to the same reasons why I seem unable to do it: my sons seem to be well-adjusted and content. They do well in school, they have good friends, and when I talk to them about their dad’s drinking or his behavior and how they feel about it, they seem to have a healthy attitude (“that’s his problem and he’s the one harming himself”) and they also are quite assertive with their dad when he becomes unreasonable. I don’t ever try to pretend that my AH’s drinking or behavior is normal or acceptable with my children. Even if I divorced him, they would still be around his dysfunctional behavior – whereas with all of us under one roof, I can see what’s going on and I can teach my children healthy ways of responding (or not responding as the case may be) to their dad.
Also, I doubt very much my AH would give me custody if we divorced and I’m not interested in mounting a court battle. I have spoken to several lawyers who have all advised to try to work out my problems and if not, to try as much as possible to avoid involving the courts. I expect if we did divorce we would probably end up with joint custody (at my AH’s request) and that’s another reason stopping me from filing” I want to see my kids every day – not only one week out of two. In short, I’m not convinced my kids would be happier if we were divorced. The other reason stopping me from filing for divorce is financial security.
Am I missing something? Are my kids suffering and not sharing that with me?
On the flip side, we enjoy many family times together and when my AH is not in a destructive mode, he can be great company. He also contributes his fair share to the home in terms of upkeep, childcare, chores, and bringing in a salary. We share many of the same goals. However I feel like I’m living with 2 different people: the nice guy that others see and that I often see and the mean, dysfunctional other person my AH can be, usually made worse by drinking. He grew up in an abusive home – his mother was abusive in every way and both parents are heavy drinkers and a brother is a recovered alcoholic. When I’ve read books about abusive men, he seems to fit the profile of an emotional abuser if I look at his behavior over the entire course of our long relationship but he seems to cycle between this and being a really nice person to be around. We rarely go more than a week before there’s an unpleasant incident with my AH and there are times where it can be every day or every few days. I feel terribly angry at him at these times and this can last for days. But overall the incidents are short-lived and the rest of the time our home life has a routine and order to it that I find comforting and predictable. I’ve also noticed that my AH will be extra kind and calm when he senses that I’m distant from him. He does recognize that he has issues but he always says he’s working on them and things are better and he’s improved a lot (which is true) and that I shouldn’t expect perfection.
I also think he's still depressed. I've suggested he get counselling but he's not interested. Most of the time he also admits he has a drinking problem and I do believe he recognizes he’s an alcoholic. However, he’s not ready to stop drinking. I don’t have any illusions that he will stop anytime soon. I’ve also noticed that his drinking has gotten worse over the years. He has withdrawal symptoms if he tries to go a day without drinking and he also seems to have developed memory problems and digestive issues that I believe are alcohol-related. He has also admitted to me he has blackouts.
He has made efforts to improve and I can say for sure that he is not abusive like he used to be and he is way less angry than he used to be but his drinking is still problematic to me. I try hard to let go of my anger at him but there is distance between us and I don’t even know anymore if I want to be closer. I seem unable to make a decision about the marriage and I hate how much time I spend thinking about it and looking for a sign that will tell me what to do. Any advice?
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
Please make yourself at home! Read the sticky's (permanent links) at the top and post questions as much as needed.
My initial advise would be to find a local Al Anon group. It is helpful to have support (here) as well as face to face with people who have the same experiences as you.
You are not alone, and we care about you!:ghug3
Please make yourself at home! Read the sticky's (permanent links) at the top and post questions as much as needed.
My initial advise would be to find a local Al Anon group. It is helpful to have support (here) as well as face to face with people who have the same experiences as you.
You are not alone, and we care about you!:ghug3
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Orlando Florida
Posts: 220
Most of the time he also admits he has a drinking problem and I do believe he recognizes he’s an alcoholic. However, he’s not ready to stop drinking. I don’t have any illusions that he will stop anytime soon. I’ve also noticed that his drinking has gotten worse over the years
The Depression, Anxiety, and Anger are all firmly linked with the Alcoholism and if he gets help and Counciling, all of that should impove dramatically over time. If AA is not to his liking there are other Intensive Outpatient Treatment Programs (IOP) availiable as well as Medications like Naltrexone that blocks cravings and obsessive thinking. However it has to start with a dedicated committment to change.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 88
I think Pelican and Rad44 make different but excellent points, and I would recommend you combine their advice.
Seek out an Al Anon meeting. Members will coach you how to handle this. Many spouses will try to control their alcoholic spouse's drinking and it just makes the alcoholic spouse want to drink more. Trust me, I have been there.
I personally think Naltrexone is a miracle drug when combined with a recovery program. It's success rate is phenomenal in studies. Your AH should ask his doctor about it.
Best of luck to you and keep us posted.
Seek out an Al Anon meeting. Members will coach you how to handle this. Many spouses will try to control their alcoholic spouse's drinking and it just makes the alcoholic spouse want to drink more. Trust me, I have been there.
I personally think Naltrexone is a miracle drug when combined with a recovery program. It's success rate is phenomenal in studies. Your AH should ask his doctor about it.
Best of luck to you and keep us posted.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by rhnorment 
I think Pelican and Rad44 make different but excellent points, and I would recommend you combine their advice.
Seek out an Al Anon meeting. Members will coach you how to handle this. Many spouses will try to control their alcoholic spouse's drinking and it just makes the alcoholic spouse want to drink more. Trust me, I have been there.
I personally think Naltrexone is a miracle drug when combined with a recovery program. It's success rate is phenomenal in studies. Your AH should ask his doctor about it.
Best of luck to you and keep us posted.
Seek out an Al Anon meeting. Members will coach you how to handle this. Many spouses will try to control their alcoholic spouse's drinking and it just makes the alcoholic spouse want to drink more. Trust me, I have been there.
I personally think Naltrexone is a miracle drug when combined with a recovery program. It's success rate is phenomenal in studies. Your AH should ask his doctor about it.
Best of luck to you and keep us posted.
I'll try to find the right time to bring up Naltrexone with my AH. Thank you for this.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Naltrexone can be used as a crutch. My AH used/s it to minimize the effects of his drinking, yet stressed that he was actively "doing something" about his alcoholism.
I'm not saying it isn't a good thing, but like everything, can be used in an unhealthy manner.
Venice - no need to feel any shame or fear, Al-anon is full of people it the exact same situation as you are. Feel proud that you are taking your well being firmly in hand by attending.
I'm not saying it isn't a good thing, but like everything, can be used in an unhealthy manner.
Venice - no need to feel any shame or fear, Al-anon is full of people it the exact same situation as you are. Feel proud that you are taking your well being firmly in hand by attending.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Venice,
Recently, a new member ask us about Al Anon and how we felt when we finally went to a meeting. There are some excellent responses on that thread. Here is the link:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l?nojs=1#links
Re: guilt and shame--
You will find sincere compassion and understanding at Al Anon. I think I was emotionally overwhelmed at my first couple meetings because I could feel the love these strangers were offering to me. I did not think I deserved that and doubted they would still extend it if I told them my story. I thought they might not want me there because I already knew I would divorce my alcoholic. Lots of worrying thoughts and self doubt.
Guess what? I was wrong. I have learned a lot at Al Anon meetings. I have learned that I am worthy of being loved. That I can forgive myself. I learned I do make good decisions for myself and my children. I can be trusted.
I also learned that my stinking thinking was holding me down. Now when I feel the impulse to react, obsess over someone else's behavior and worry about the future, I can stop myself. I can look at the situation, my part and what are my healthy choices for response.
Try a meeting, or 6 as recommended, and let us know what you think!
Recently, a new member ask us about Al Anon and how we felt when we finally went to a meeting. There are some excellent responses on that thread. Here is the link:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l?nojs=1#links
Re: guilt and shame--
You will find sincere compassion and understanding at Al Anon. I think I was emotionally overwhelmed at my first couple meetings because I could feel the love these strangers were offering to me. I did not think I deserved that and doubted they would still extend it if I told them my story. I thought they might not want me there because I already knew I would divorce my alcoholic. Lots of worrying thoughts and self doubt.
Guess what? I was wrong. I have learned a lot at Al Anon meetings. I have learned that I am worthy of being loved. That I can forgive myself. I learned I do make good decisions for myself and my children. I can be trusted.
I also learned that my stinking thinking was holding me down. Now when I feel the impulse to react, obsess over someone else's behavior and worry about the future, I can stop myself. I can look at the situation, my part and what are my healthy choices for response.
Try a meeting, or 6 as recommended, and let us know what you think!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi venice-
i do understand that feeling that you should get out of the relationship and then looking around for reasons to match the hunch. it's not a nice way to live, kind of forever in limbo.
once i started looking to support my hunches, i found much evidence to support my feelings that i was being lied too and manipulated by an alcoholic.
while you've obviously adapted to your situation, it doesn't sound very healthy or fulfilling for you.
the first step that i made when i began to consider leaving the relationship was to take my own room in our home. that helped a lot because if he was drunk, i had my own room to escape to.
the second step i took was to start writing here and getting some input from others.
it's a journey, but as i became more and more aware, i began to understand that things weren't going to change, they were only going to get worse. and as time went by, they did get worse.
i hope you try an alanon meeting.
naive
i do understand that feeling that you should get out of the relationship and then looking around for reasons to match the hunch. it's not a nice way to live, kind of forever in limbo.
once i started looking to support my hunches, i found much evidence to support my feelings that i was being lied too and manipulated by an alcoholic.
while you've obviously adapted to your situation, it doesn't sound very healthy or fulfilling for you.
the first step that i made when i began to consider leaving the relationship was to take my own room in our home. that helped a lot because if he was drunk, i had my own room to escape to.
the second step i took was to start writing here and getting some input from others.
it's a journey, but as i became more and more aware, i began to understand that things weren't going to change, they were only going to get worse. and as time went by, they did get worse.
i hope you try an alanon meeting.
naive
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Pelican
Venice,
Recently, a new member ask us about Al Anon and how we felt when we finally went to a meeting. There are some excellent responses on that thread. Here is the link:
Re: guilt and shame--
You will find sincere compassion and understanding at Al Anon. I think I was emotionally overwhelmed at my first couple meetings because I could feel the love these strangers were offering to me. I did not think I deserved that and doubted they would still extend it if I told them my story. I thought they might not want me there because I already knew I would divorce my alcoholic. Lots of worrying thoughts and self doubt.
Guess what? I was wrong. I have learned a lot at Al Anon meetings. I have learned that I am worthy of being loved. That I can forgive myself. I learned I do make good decisions for myself and my children. I can be trusted.
I also learned that my stinking thinking was holding me down. Now when I feel the impulse to react, obsess over someone else's behavior and worry about the future, I can stop myself. I can look at the situation, my part and what are my healthy choices for response.
Try a meeting, or 6 as recommended, and let us know what you think!
Recently, a new member ask us about Al Anon and how we felt when we finally went to a meeting. There are some excellent responses on that thread. Here is the link:
Re: guilt and shame--
You will find sincere compassion and understanding at Al Anon. I think I was emotionally overwhelmed at my first couple meetings because I could feel the love these strangers were offering to me. I did not think I deserved that and doubted they would still extend it if I told them my story. I thought they might not want me there because I already knew I would divorce my alcoholic. Lots of worrying thoughts and self doubt.
Guess what? I was wrong. I have learned a lot at Al Anon meetings. I have learned that I am worthy of being loved. That I can forgive myself. I learned I do make good decisions for myself and my children. I can be trusted.
I also learned that my stinking thinking was holding me down. Now when I feel the impulse to react, obsess over someone else's behavior and worry about the future, I can stop myself. I can look at the situation, my part and what are my healthy choices for response.
Try a meeting, or 6 as recommended, and let us know what you think!
I'll try to gear myself up for an al-anon meeting...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by naive
hi venice-
i do understand that feeling that you should get out of the relationship and then looking around for reasons to match the hunch. it's not a nice way to live, kind of forever in limbo.
once i started looking to support my hunches, i found much evidence to support my feelings that i was being lied too and manipulated by an alcoholic.
while you've obviously adapted to your situation, it doesn't sound very healthy or fulfilling for you.
the first step that i made when i began to consider leaving the relationship was to take my own room in our home. that helped a lot because if he was drunk, i had my own room to escape to.
the second step i took was to start writing here and getting some input from others.
it's a journey, but as i became more and more aware, i began to understand that things weren't going to change, they were only going to get worse. and as time went by, they did get worse.
i hope you try an alanon meeting.
naive
i do understand that feeling that you should get out of the relationship and then looking around for reasons to match the hunch. it's not a nice way to live, kind of forever in limbo.
once i started looking to support my hunches, i found much evidence to support my feelings that i was being lied too and manipulated by an alcoholic.
while you've obviously adapted to your situation, it doesn't sound very healthy or fulfilling for you.
the first step that i made when i began to consider leaving the relationship was to take my own room in our home. that helped a lot because if he was drunk, i had my own room to escape to.
the second step i took was to start writing here and getting some input from others.
it's a journey, but as i became more and more aware, i began to understand that things weren't going to change, they were only going to get worse. and as time went by, they did get worse.
i hope you try an alanon meeting.
naive
Thank you for sharing your insight. Yes, I do feel that I'm in a perpetual state of limbo in my marriage and the relationship is definitely not fulfilling to me. It's not as nice place to be in! In fact, I feel quite lonely...
We don't have a spare bedroom in our home but I still do manage to escape to our shared bedroom as my AH is usually in front of the TV in our family room when he's drunk. So I do escape quite often to our bedroom and I can talk on the phone or read in peace. It's also rare that my AH goes to bed before me (or at the same time as me) so I can spend an evening away from him and go to bed without any contact with him at all.
I think this site will be helpful as I've been reading for a couple of weeks now and was impressed with the support and wisdom members were offering each other.
Thanks again for your helpful reply.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
I have 4 kids. 15,17,19,21. I am presently going through the process of divorce. All of my kids want me to divorce my husband for "me" more then them. My kids love their father, but they don't respect him as a father at heart.
I would tell you my kids are well adjusted human beings. I would also tell you that they are affected as children by not having a healthy father, more then others outside my family can see. It is impossible for them not to be affected in someway with only having one healthy parent and living in the same house with a drunken abuser.
When i read your story I think, " She wants out of this marriage, but she wants permission." Am I onto something?
14 and 18, and in a few years they will be out of the house.
What do you really want?
My advice would be get very honest with yourself. Do you want in or out? If you want out decide what is keeping you in still? Is it worth it or is it something you still need answered.
If you want to stay in , get honest and except what in offers. It might be helpful to make a list of why you stay and why you go AND keep reading our stories. On your list look at what is about you bring healthy and what is you being fearful.
I went through this process of deciding to leave even when I believed God might not be okay with this divorce.( being that I realized i wasn't really in a marriage anyway.) So then i struggled because of this. Thank God I was wrong.:-) So what is your struggle that you are confused as to leave or stay? Can you place it?
As to your kids, one is 18. No court is giving the 14 year old to an alcoholic husband with that long of a history, the battle would be short lived. So that can be taken off the list. :-)
love tammy
I would tell you my kids are well adjusted human beings. I would also tell you that they are affected as children by not having a healthy father, more then others outside my family can see. It is impossible for them not to be affected in someway with only having one healthy parent and living in the same house with a drunken abuser.
When i read your story I think, " She wants out of this marriage, but she wants permission." Am I onto something?
14 and 18, and in a few years they will be out of the house.
What do you really want?
My advice would be get very honest with yourself. Do you want in or out? If you want out decide what is keeping you in still? Is it worth it or is it something you still need answered.
If you want to stay in , get honest and except what in offers. It might be helpful to make a list of why you stay and why you go AND keep reading our stories. On your list look at what is about you bring healthy and what is you being fearful.
I went through this process of deciding to leave even when I believed God might not be okay with this divorce.( being that I realized i wasn't really in a marriage anyway.) So then i struggled because of this. Thank God I was wrong.:-) So what is your struggle that you are confused as to leave or stay? Can you place it?
As to your kids, one is 18. No court is giving the 14 year old to an alcoholic husband with that long of a history, the battle would be short lived. So that can be taken off the list. :-)
love tammy
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
I have 4 kids. 15,17,19,21. I am presently going through the process of divorce. All of my kids want me to divorce my husband for "me" more then them. My kids love their father, but they don't respect him as a father at heart.
What do you really want?
My advice would be get very honest with yourself. Do you want in or out? If you want out decide what is keeping you in still? Is it worth it or is it something you still need answered.
My advice would be get very honest with yourself. Do you want in or out? If you want out decide what is keeping you in still? Is it worth it or is it something you still need answered.
As to whether it's worth it? I guess I still need this answered and this is why I'm still in limbo.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Thank you Tammy. Did you know before filing for divorce that your kids would be supportive of your decision?
Just to note: I have still not filed legal papers as the church elder asked me to wait for our meeting. ( which the scheduled for Sept 4 - I may not wait) They see no reason for me not to go through with divorce however. This is what I call the "process." Since we are both christians I brought him before the church. Sooo, with that perspective......
The answer to your question is a big yes. And the last thing they wanted for me and for them was separation 'limbo.' The did not respect their father as a husband either. THe 2 older ones were soooooo supportive they were upset with christians who challenged me that I was wrong that I had a biblical argument for divorce. Their view was these people don't understand and they are missing something in scripture. My kids they were right.:-)
My kids and I have had very open dialogue on our family dynamic for years. So as my husband alcoholism progressed my 2 older kids were in my face telling me," You cannot be happy married to Dad, Mom, divorce him." It so happens that I had no choice as I also had to protect then as he also progressed to the point of a pattern of emotionally and mentally abusing them. He also started to get physically aggressive with my 2 older sons when he was angry with them. My children were also no longer happy in relationship with their father.
Had my kids not been supportive Venice, I would divorce AH anyway. I would have opened up a conversation for them to ask anything they wished so that they may understand why i must do what i am doing. In the end I would have told them i have to do what is 'right' for me and for them. If they would have stood opposed to my decision I would have told them that in the future i could only hope that they would come to see it was what was best, for all of us, including their father. And I would have set up a meeting with me, my kids and a recoved co-dependent and recoved alcoholic if they still were oppossed.
Because of the grace of God, maintaining open conversation with my kids and having a trusted parent relationship with then the later was not necessary.
From what you reveal in your original post I believe it is most likely your kids will not only view it as supporting you but what may be best for you, and maybe them too. ;-) If I could suggest.... when you talk to them about this you might not want to instill your fears upon them in the conversation. They may have some of the same 'concerns' and will want you to address them.:-)
love tammy
ps: because of time right now I will get back to the "fears" later. Great job Venice in expressing your fears. Many of us here can now be more specific as to our experience with this and how we got past or moved beyond the 'fear' or 'concerns.' :-) Just from reading these post thread on Friends and Family I have found strength in the examples of those who have went before me with some of these exact same 'fears' and 'concerns.'
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Venice, i promise my intent is not to be harsh, but clear.:-)
I come from a divorce. My mother divorced my AF when i was 5, so it is more like I just had an absent father. And yes , of course, it would have been better to have an intact family, if it was a healthy one. I view my mother as doing me a favor, not a question about it. My sisters had to grow up with my father from young chlldhood into their later teens, during entire season of progressive abusive alcoholic behaviors. I feel sorry for them.
The question to you Venice is is you family really intact? How do you define an intact family? My present experience is that my husbands alcoholism has progressed to such a point that my family is not emotionally and spiritually intact and staying together to be physically intact will do more damage and injury to the emotional and spiritual development of my family and each individual. It is why I must divorce. Abuse throws off the balance to have a healthy living situation. living with a progressive alcoholic is not just an occasional offense/or sin as we all have, it is a continual pattern , with a weight of stress, that the family lives under.
Venice, I have 3 teenage sons. Each would tell you that they have been disrupted and trauma has entered their lives because of living with a progressive alcoholic. Which disruption will serve you and them better in the future, staying or leaving?
I am willing to disrupt their lives with a divorce because it is best for both them and me. My oldest son wanted me to disrupt their lives as he was sad for me and angry at his father for his father not being the husband and man he believes a husband is suppose to be. I now realize what a disruption this was to my kids. because of a false conviction and wrong biblical position I believed I was being an example of having a Christlike behavior of loving my husband and suffering. Haaa, now I know that God did not call me to suffer in a marriage to an active alcoholic husband. I have asked my kids forgiveness for teaching them wrongly, and telling them the Christ would never want them to suffer this in a marriage.
financial security: Okay, hard one as this is around the corner. I am preparing to be abused financially at divorce time. ( It is the pattern of A manipulation/abuse and the stickin thinkin and things he has said already.)However, i am also praying that God would convict my AH and that i wouldn't have to go through more growth of surrendering to him in this area.! i am willing to give Him gory the easy route! Either way, i am depending on God and know he will walk with me or even carry me through this.
I am making less money then i made 10 years ago, 'we' remortgaged about a year and 1/2 ago ( as I wasn't planning a divorce) and I have a higher mortgage then ever. I am depending on God, period. I will use the common sense he gave me to figure out and be creative on ways to pay the bills and/or make a move. My house will sell, even in this market if God has a plan for me to move out. * This is all still amongst the unknown.:-)
companionship: Hmmmm,...okay.... what companionship are you talking about? You said yourself it isn't romantic anymore, that kind of love isn't there any longer. this is my experience too. I can have companionship among friends anywhere!!! And the blunt truth is a man ain't hard to find either. It is about waiting for the right one if so interested. I personally know i will be content being single ( and plan to enjoy it:-) however, I am not crazy about the idea of remaining that way because i want the deep intimate relationship that is meant to be between a husband and wife that is found in no other relationship. And I will just be direct and say that yes, the idea of going without sex is very..ummm... aggravating at the least. I want this kind of companionship that i only can have in a marriage.( Being I am a christian, sex outside of marriage is not an option for me, i understand others do not hold the same position.) But, i am will to except that it just might happen that I will remain single and know that this is preferable to being married as I am now.
God , there is sooooo much to enjoy and experience that there is not enough hours in the day. I am looking forward to the divorce so i can get to the stuff i am holding off till after the divorce.
You know what I like best about this quoted section? :-) You still have a sense of humor!!!!!! lol.. yea , you mentioned fear, actually they were repeat fears.
Scripture says if God is for you who can be against you. It says that God is with the brokenhearted. It says the God goes with you into the fight to give you victory over your enemies. If what you choose to do is righteous it is within God's will. If your husband stands opposed to you in your righteous decisions and fights against you as if he were your enemy, God has your back girl, if you would surrender it all to Him. Every step of the 12 steps of the program has an aspect of surrender.
Limbo sucks!!! When i hit limbo that is what my process was all about, getting in and out of limbo as fast as possible!:-) God is allowing me to remain in limbo longer then I would like but i know that means i am gaining something He wants me to have, grow in. And He also knew what I would need to remain in it and yet grow, to know it would be coming to an end and be able to see the path that brings me to it..... divorce. And that i would know in my heart this was righteous in an abusive/ abandonement stituation and would be acting in His will.
Okay Venice, that's it , what I was lead to share.:-) Sorry it took awhile. It's funny, not how I expected I would respond.
love tammy
I think what I really want is out. I don't love my AH and have not for a long time. What is still keeping me in? I'd say the desire to have an intact family (I come from a family of divorce),
The question to you Venice is is you family really intact? How do you define an intact family? My present experience is that my husbands alcoholism has progressed to such a point that my family is not emotionally and spiritually intact and staying together to be physically intact will do more damage and injury to the emotional and spiritual development of my family and each individual. It is why I must divorce. Abuse throws off the balance to have a healthy living situation. living with a progressive alcoholic is not just an occasional offense/or sin as we all have, it is a continual pattern , with a weight of stress, that the family lives under.
the desire not to disrupt or cause trauma to my sons' lives, financial security, and companionship.
I am willing to disrupt their lives with a divorce because it is best for both them and me. My oldest son wanted me to disrupt their lives as he was sad for me and angry at his father for his father not being the husband and man he believes a husband is suppose to be. I now realize what a disruption this was to my kids. because of a false conviction and wrong biblical position I believed I was being an example of having a Christlike behavior of loving my husband and suffering. Haaa, now I know that God did not call me to suffer in a marriage to an active alcoholic husband. I have asked my kids forgiveness for teaching them wrongly, and telling them the Christ would never want them to suffer this in a marriage.
financial security: Okay, hard one as this is around the corner. I am preparing to be abused financially at divorce time. ( It is the pattern of A manipulation/abuse and the stickin thinkin and things he has said already.)However, i am also praying that God would convict my AH and that i wouldn't have to go through more growth of surrendering to him in this area.! i am willing to give Him gory the easy route! Either way, i am depending on God and know he will walk with me or even carry me through this.
I am making less money then i made 10 years ago, 'we' remortgaged about a year and 1/2 ago ( as I wasn't planning a divorce) and I have a higher mortgage then ever. I am depending on God, period. I will use the common sense he gave me to figure out and be creative on ways to pay the bills and/or make a move. My house will sell, even in this market if God has a plan for me to move out. * This is all still amongst the unknown.:-)
companionship: Hmmmm,...okay.... what companionship are you talking about? You said yourself it isn't romantic anymore, that kind of love isn't there any longer. this is my experience too. I can have companionship among friends anywhere!!! And the blunt truth is a man ain't hard to find either. It is about waiting for the right one if so interested. I personally know i will be content being single ( and plan to enjoy it:-) however, I am not crazy about the idea of remaining that way because i want the deep intimate relationship that is meant to be between a husband and wife that is found in no other relationship. And I will just be direct and say that yes, the idea of going without sex is very..ummm... aggravating at the least. I want this kind of companionship that i only can have in a marriage.( Being I am a christian, sex outside of marriage is not an option for me, i understand others do not hold the same position.) But, i am will to except that it just might happen that I will remain single and know that this is preferable to being married as I am now.
God , there is sooooo much to enjoy and experience that there is not enough hours in the day. I am looking forward to the divorce so i can get to the stuff i am holding off till after the divorce.
What's also keeping me in is fear of the unknown, fear of my sons' being traumatized by a divorce, fear of my AH's reaction and what I may have to endure from him in the event of divorce (he has reacted very aggressively on occasion in the past when I have brought up divorce and he can be quite manipulative), fear of financial struggles, fear of not having custody of the 14 year old and 16 year old, fear of being alone...Have I mentioned fear? :-)
Scripture says if God is for you who can be against you. It says that God is with the brokenhearted. It says the God goes with you into the fight to give you victory over your enemies. If what you choose to do is righteous it is within God's will. If your husband stands opposed to you in your righteous decisions and fights against you as if he were your enemy, God has your back girl, if you would surrender it all to Him. Every step of the 12 steps of the program has an aspect of surrender.
As to whether it's worth it? I guess I still need this answered and this is why I'm still in limbo.
Okay Venice, that's it , what I was lead to share.:-) Sorry it took awhile. It's funny, not how I expected I would respond.
love tammy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Tammy,
Sorry it took so long to reply to your post. You really gave me a lot to think about and I think you just gave me that wee bit of encouragement I needed to make a decision that was troubling me for a very very long time.
No, we're not really intact because there's constant tension and I guess we've adapted to it to a certain extent, so that it almost seems "normal." You're right - we're not living in a healthy environment and we're all paying a price for that.
I think leaving will be better for all of us in the end, once we get through this rough patch now where he won't leave.
Ditto!!
I truly have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that!
I'm already there - going without that is! Couldn't stomach the thought of being intimate with him anymore...
I'm curious - how did you think you would respond?
Thanks so much for helping me clarify my thoughts on this decision. Venice xx
Sorry it took so long to reply to your post. You really gave me a lot to think about and I think you just gave me that wee bit of encouragement I needed to make a decision that was troubling me for a very very long time.
The question to you Venice is is you family really intact?
Which disruption will serve you and them better in the future, staying or leaving?
financial security: Okay, hard one as this is around the corner. I am preparing to be abused financially at divorce time.
companionship: Hmmmm,...okay.... what companionship are you talking about?
yes, the idea of going without sex is very..ummm... aggravating at the least.
Sorry it took awhile. It's funny, not how I expected I would respond.
Thanks so much for helping me clarify my thoughts on this decision. Venice xx
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Maybe if you can look at it as, it's something you're doing for yourself, not for him. To help you cope and make healthy decisions in a chaotic, harmful environment.
Originally Posted by Venice
"Why should I have to do all these things to learn to cope when he's the one with the problem?"
I'll try to gear myself up for an al-anon meeting...
I'll try to gear myself up for an al-anon meeting...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
Hi Venice, fear is overwhelming for all of us. But if you look objectively at both sides of your situation you'll find fears for staying too - fear of living together with an alcoholic and yet alone, fear of never finding peace and happiness in your home, fear of the things affecting your children by staying with an A. Fear of losing yourself. But the familiar is more acceptable than the unfamiliar, which I find can keep us treading water for eons.
I have a 2 yr old. I started to fear what living with an active A would do to her, and that was more significant than any other battle to face - divorce, custody, etc. I'm an adult, and truly, been through quite a bit, and I know I can handle it. Somehow, I would. But she's a child, unable to control her situation. So that fed into my decision.
I lived with the status quo for years, and tried to convince myself every day that it wasn't so bad. Sometimes things were ok. When sober, we'd have some good times. But as I'd tell him, I'd trade in all those 'things' he did - laundry, dishes, good provider, for a non-drinking, healthy, equally-contributing, romantic partner. I lived alone within my relationship. And one member here put it well - the drinking weaves itself into the fabric of the entire relationship. Please try al anon. It really helps. People there are warm and welcoming and all have either been, or are currently, in the boat you are.
I finally took the plunge and asked H to leave. He got sober. We were separated for 4 months and now back together, working on things. Things are still hard but at least I have someone who is thinking clearly. 8 months and the cloud of booze is lifting, and he is starting to emerge into life and realizing how far under a rock he'd been. But let me tell you - as long as I accepted the mediocrity that I had, he would have continued his path, because it didn't interfere with his ability to drink. The fact that you've voiced your unhappiness shows that you no longer want to live with this mediocrity. And you don't have to. We all deserve happiness, peace, love. But you must realize that you need to start walking that journey, for you, for your children. But taking your power back will make you want to keep going. Like working out, I think. When you start seeing results, it motivates you to keep going. The fears won't ever leave, but tell yourself that you are powerful and strong enough to face whatever fear may bring, and overcome it. Best to you.
I have a 2 yr old. I started to fear what living with an active A would do to her, and that was more significant than any other battle to face - divorce, custody, etc. I'm an adult, and truly, been through quite a bit, and I know I can handle it. Somehow, I would. But she's a child, unable to control her situation. So that fed into my decision.
I lived with the status quo for years, and tried to convince myself every day that it wasn't so bad. Sometimes things were ok. When sober, we'd have some good times. But as I'd tell him, I'd trade in all those 'things' he did - laundry, dishes, good provider, for a non-drinking, healthy, equally-contributing, romantic partner. I lived alone within my relationship. And one member here put it well - the drinking weaves itself into the fabric of the entire relationship. Please try al anon. It really helps. People there are warm and welcoming and all have either been, or are currently, in the boat you are.
I finally took the plunge and asked H to leave. He got sober. We were separated for 4 months and now back together, working on things. Things are still hard but at least I have someone who is thinking clearly. 8 months and the cloud of booze is lifting, and he is starting to emerge into life and realizing how far under a rock he'd been. But let me tell you - as long as I accepted the mediocrity that I had, he would have continued his path, because it didn't interfere with his ability to drink. The fact that you've voiced your unhappiness shows that you no longer want to live with this mediocrity. And you don't have to. We all deserve happiness, peace, love. But you must realize that you need to start walking that journey, for you, for your children. But taking your power back will make you want to keep going. Like working out, I think. When you start seeing results, it motivates you to keep going. The fears won't ever leave, but tell yourself that you are powerful and strong enough to face whatever fear may bring, and overcome it. Best to you.
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