New, and wanting help on helping someone new to recovery!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11
New, and wanting help on helping someone new to recovery!
I'm going to apologize in advance for a long post - I'll try to leave out any irrelevant details. A "friend" of mine from college is struggling with trying to stop drinking. I think he's been a functioning alcoholic for a long time, but the functioning part stopped a few months ago. When functional, he drank before, during, and after work. He's lost his job, gotten a DUI, been to inpatient and outpatient rehab (in addition to the ER), AA, and basically wouldn't admit he needed to stop drinking. Since he was unemployed, he had nothing but time to drink. Here and there, he would say that he wanted to want to stop drinking, or that he knew he should stop drinking, but the desire to stop was not there. From family pressure and I would imagine rehab pressure, he would skip drinking for a day here or there, but always go back to it and complain that everyone wanted him to be perfect right away.
Background on our relationship: I've known him since 2000, dated briefly, remained friendly, have the same social circle, and got back in locally touch this April after being in long distance contact about once a year after college. I've never stopped thinking about him and allegedly he has similar feelings for me. I would like to believe that is true, but I realize that he is in the middle of trying to overcome an addiction, and this is not the time for us to strike up a romance. At the same time, the attraction is undeniable, and when we see each other, there is a physical relationship. Primarily though, I've tried to be his friend, and help him work through this.
Since we've reunited, he's always been honest to me about his drinking, even as I've sat there and watched him lie to his family over and over. I've tried to remain as nonjudgmental as possible while also letting him know that yes, I think he should stop drinking. When he's in the full swing of drinking, it sucks that he's drunk, but he is good about keeping in touch, etc. When he's in a spell of trying to stop, he is the most unreliable person EVER. Makes plans and then bails (presumably to drink, as I know he'd stopped going to meetings), or just doesn't call at all. Last weekend this happened 3 times in a row. Sunday rolled around, and we had a long, long talk. He did most of the talking, and said that he had a major epiphany, and that he wants to stop drinking, that he's been incredibly selfish, and that he wants to be good to himself so he can be good to others. I told him I of course supported him, but that if he kept going down the road we've been on, I would have to stop hanging out with him for my own sanity. Afterwards, I asked when I would see him again, and he said he'd call this week. I admit to pressing him on this, and he said he didn't want to commit to one day because he hadn't thought beyond that day (Sunday), and he didn't want to break another promise.
I deeply hope that he has been able to stay sober this week and has been working the program. The conversation we had Sunday was much different than ones we've had in the past, and it seems he is actually wanting to stop. He also started a new job on Monday. I called him last night just to check in and left him a message. Haven't heard back.
After all of that.... my question. Assuming he has been staying sober or at least struggling towards that goal, how do I best support him? I have realized this week that the physical withdrawl alone combined with a new job could well keep him occupied without thinking of me. I also know that his recovery needs to come before anything else, and that I'd rather he be in meetings or working on himself than calling or texting me. Finally, I know that no matter what I do, I cannot make him stop. Only he can make that decision. I want to give him the space he needs to really address his addiction, but I also want to let him know that I'm thinking of him. Any ideas on how much I should be in contact or what I should be saying? I don't know if he's managed to stay sober and I know he's struggled in the past with feeling like a failure if he's drank, so I don't know that I should bring up anything about his recovery - but at the same time, if he is doing well, I am so phenomenally proud of him, that I want to tell him. Previous to this week, we'd typically talk 3-5 times a week, and see each other 1-2 times a week. Any ideas are much appreciated!
As for me - yes, I am taking care of myself - immersing myself in my own hobbies and friends, and reminding myself that he is sick and can't be in anything resembling a real relationship for a long, long time. Even if we can't ever work out, I'd still want to see him healthy and sober. Although I've dated other people, he's the one I've never been able to get out of my head, and I'd do anything to help him (although, of course, he is the only one who can do the work). My friends who know of the issue don't know anything about recovery (and I am very naive myself), so they don't understand why he can't call me every day right now. I get that I need to be getting something from him, and I do when he's drinking, but if things are ever going to be with us, he needs to be sober, and he needs to take all the time apart from me he needs to get there.
Background on our relationship: I've known him since 2000, dated briefly, remained friendly, have the same social circle, and got back in locally touch this April after being in long distance contact about once a year after college. I've never stopped thinking about him and allegedly he has similar feelings for me. I would like to believe that is true, but I realize that he is in the middle of trying to overcome an addiction, and this is not the time for us to strike up a romance. At the same time, the attraction is undeniable, and when we see each other, there is a physical relationship. Primarily though, I've tried to be his friend, and help him work through this.
Since we've reunited, he's always been honest to me about his drinking, even as I've sat there and watched him lie to his family over and over. I've tried to remain as nonjudgmental as possible while also letting him know that yes, I think he should stop drinking. When he's in the full swing of drinking, it sucks that he's drunk, but he is good about keeping in touch, etc. When he's in a spell of trying to stop, he is the most unreliable person EVER. Makes plans and then bails (presumably to drink, as I know he'd stopped going to meetings), or just doesn't call at all. Last weekend this happened 3 times in a row. Sunday rolled around, and we had a long, long talk. He did most of the talking, and said that he had a major epiphany, and that he wants to stop drinking, that he's been incredibly selfish, and that he wants to be good to himself so he can be good to others. I told him I of course supported him, but that if he kept going down the road we've been on, I would have to stop hanging out with him for my own sanity. Afterwards, I asked when I would see him again, and he said he'd call this week. I admit to pressing him on this, and he said he didn't want to commit to one day because he hadn't thought beyond that day (Sunday), and he didn't want to break another promise.
I deeply hope that he has been able to stay sober this week and has been working the program. The conversation we had Sunday was much different than ones we've had in the past, and it seems he is actually wanting to stop. He also started a new job on Monday. I called him last night just to check in and left him a message. Haven't heard back.
After all of that.... my question. Assuming he has been staying sober or at least struggling towards that goal, how do I best support him? I have realized this week that the physical withdrawl alone combined with a new job could well keep him occupied without thinking of me. I also know that his recovery needs to come before anything else, and that I'd rather he be in meetings or working on himself than calling or texting me. Finally, I know that no matter what I do, I cannot make him stop. Only he can make that decision. I want to give him the space he needs to really address his addiction, but I also want to let him know that I'm thinking of him. Any ideas on how much I should be in contact or what I should be saying? I don't know if he's managed to stay sober and I know he's struggled in the past with feeling like a failure if he's drank, so I don't know that I should bring up anything about his recovery - but at the same time, if he is doing well, I am so phenomenally proud of him, that I want to tell him. Previous to this week, we'd typically talk 3-5 times a week, and see each other 1-2 times a week. Any ideas are much appreciated!
As for me - yes, I am taking care of myself - immersing myself in my own hobbies and friends, and reminding myself that he is sick and can't be in anything resembling a real relationship for a long, long time. Even if we can't ever work out, I'd still want to see him healthy and sober. Although I've dated other people, he's the one I've never been able to get out of my head, and I'd do anything to help him (although, of course, he is the only one who can do the work). My friends who know of the issue don't know anything about recovery (and I am very naive myself), so they don't understand why he can't call me every day right now. I get that I need to be getting something from him, and I do when he's drinking, but if things are ever going to be with us, he needs to be sober, and he needs to take all the time apart from me he needs to get there.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
You sound like a really great friend to him, and sometimes as a great friend you have to make hard decisions with this stuff.
You can set your own boundaries, and make some decisions on what you're ok with in terms of his drinking. What he does will have nothing to do with you, so you gotta look out for you first.
He will drink until he's done, that is a fact. His recovery has to be his own, and the committment that he makes to sobriety has to come before anything, and anyone.
A lot of people who love addicts and alcoholics will be around with sage advice on the matter.
You can set your own boundaries, and make some decisions on what you're ok with in terms of his drinking. What he does will have nothing to do with you, so you gotta look out for you first.
He will drink until he's done, that is a fact. His recovery has to be his own, and the committment that he makes to sobriety has to come before anything, and anyone.
A lot of people who love addicts and alcoholics will be around with sage advice on the matter.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to SR!
You are a really good friend. You already know a lot about alcoholics and that they have to choose recovery for themselves. They have to want it more than money, sex, jobs and family. Because without recovery they will loose everything if they haven't already.
His silence may be from spending time with a sponsor, or because he has failed and doesn't want to confess to you. Either way, it was not because of you.
Have you thought about attending Al Anon meetings? They are for Friends and Family of Alcoholics. In Al Anon we keep the focus on ourselves. Learning to find our own serenity whether the alcoholic is drinking or not. Try out a few meetings and you will find friends who understand what it's like to love someone with an addiction to alcohol!
Take care of You!
You are a really good friend. You already know a lot about alcoholics and that they have to choose recovery for themselves. They have to want it more than money, sex, jobs and family. Because without recovery they will loose everything if they haven't already.
His silence may be from spending time with a sponsor, or because he has failed and doesn't want to confess to you. Either way, it was not because of you.
Have you thought about attending Al Anon meetings? They are for Friends and Family of Alcoholics. In Al Anon we keep the focus on ourselves. Learning to find our own serenity whether the alcoholic is drinking or not. Try out a few meetings and you will find friends who understand what it's like to love someone with an addiction to alcohol!
Take care of You!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11
Thanks for all of the responses on a Friday night! To the question as to why I don't cut myself out of his life until he is sober... it's (perhaps surprisingly) not because I feel guilty or because I think he can't function without me - he's survived a long time without me. It's selfish - sober or not, I just love being around and with him. He's not a hugely different personality when he's drunk - still the same smart, weird and funny guy I've always known - with the exception of having moments of being really down on himself and depressed. The only thing I get out of being with him is being with him, and for the moment, that's enough for me.
After last weekend's epic unreliability spell, I was close to pulling the plug. For the moment, I think I've decided to be in touch when I feel the whim, and keep my expectations of him at zero.
I admit my biggest fear in all of this is that I'll walk away, after some indeterminate amount of time he will get sober, not be in touch, and meet someone else, and they'll get to have this wonderful person that I want for me! I guess selfishness knows no bounds...
And as far as Al-Anon goes... I know this is somewhat neurotic, but he's not my boyfriend by any means. We've only been back in contact for a few months. I feel like a crazy person being this deeply affected by someone who I can't even explain my relationship with!
After last weekend's epic unreliability spell, I was close to pulling the plug. For the moment, I think I've decided to be in touch when I feel the whim, and keep my expectations of him at zero.
I admit my biggest fear in all of this is that I'll walk away, after some indeterminate amount of time he will get sober, not be in touch, and meet someone else, and they'll get to have this wonderful person that I want for me! I guess selfishness knows no bounds...
And as far as Al-Anon goes... I know this is somewhat neurotic, but he's not my boyfriend by any means. We've only been back in contact for a few months. I feel like a crazy person being this deeply affected by someone who I can't even explain my relationship with!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
These descriptions of your friend conflict:
When he's in a spell of trying to stop, he is the most unreliable person EVER. Makes plans and then bails (presumably to drink, as I know he'd stopped going to meetings), or just doesn't call at all. Last weekend this happened 3 times in a row
and this:
He's not a hugely different personality when he's drunk - still the same smart, weird and funny guy I've always known - with the exception of having moments of being really down on himself and depressed.
Which one of these guys is magical thinking on your part? Which one of these guys is the real deal?
An alcoholic can be charming and funny when drinking during the early stages of addiction. The body becomes addicted to alcohol because it readily absorbs all the energy and calories it needs from alcohol instead of the longer process of digesting real food and nutrients. That's why alcoholics don't eat much. Watch them at a bbq. Lots of beer and nibble here, nibble there, lots of beer. They eat less calories during a day of drinking than a monk on a religious fast! They are getting all their energy from alcohol. It's quick and effective to every single cell of their body, mind and soul.
Only problem is the addiction progresses. For some addicts it is quick, for some it takes years and years. But it is always a progressive disease.
The cranky, moody side of the addiction is based on withdrawals from alcohol. That will require medical attention and/or support from other recovering alcoholics.
Now about your magical thinking...Why are you wanting to hang on to a relationship while maintaining "zero" expectations from your partner, just in case he becomes a recovering alcoholic. What is zero expectations giving you in the meantime? Is this how you want to spend your one precious life?
When he's in a spell of trying to stop, he is the most unreliable person EVER. Makes plans and then bails (presumably to drink, as I know he'd stopped going to meetings), or just doesn't call at all. Last weekend this happened 3 times in a row
and this:
He's not a hugely different personality when he's drunk - still the same smart, weird and funny guy I've always known - with the exception of having moments of being really down on himself and depressed.
Which one of these guys is magical thinking on your part? Which one of these guys is the real deal?
An alcoholic can be charming and funny when drinking during the early stages of addiction. The body becomes addicted to alcohol because it readily absorbs all the energy and calories it needs from alcohol instead of the longer process of digesting real food and nutrients. That's why alcoholics don't eat much. Watch them at a bbq. Lots of beer and nibble here, nibble there, lots of beer. They eat less calories during a day of drinking than a monk on a religious fast! They are getting all their energy from alcohol. It's quick and effective to every single cell of their body, mind and soul.
Only problem is the addiction progresses. For some addicts it is quick, for some it takes years and years. But it is always a progressive disease.
The cranky, moody side of the addiction is based on withdrawals from alcohol. That will require medical attention and/or support from other recovering alcoholics.
Now about your magical thinking...Why are you wanting to hang on to a relationship while maintaining "zero" expectations from your partner, just in case he becomes a recovering alcoholic. What is zero expectations giving you in the meantime? Is this how you want to spend your one precious life?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11
Ah, yes. I guess what I meant is when he's accepting and admitting that he's drinking, he's someone that I want to be around and someone that actually is reliable. It's when he tries to stop and fails that he turns into this total flake. Of course, him drinking daily isn't exactly the path for him to follow.
As far as progressing - he's already bad. I know unless he stops completely, it will get worse. It made me laugh to even read the part about going to a bbq because he doesn't go out! He sits in his apartment and drinks alone. Completely isolates. We have many mutual friends, and most have not heard from him in about 6 months.
I am just starting to accept that he may NEVER, much less in the next few years, become the person that I want him to be. There is so much sadness that comes with this - I know it is the loss of a hypothetical person and only hoped-for relationship, but I feel like it would have been easier had he just been a normal guy who I dated and happened to break my heart. I am having a hard time even fathoming closure, as I know even if I cut myself out of his life, I will continue to think of him daily (I have for the last 8 years, well before I knew he was an alcoholic), we live in the same city, and have so many people in common.
Thank you again for your reply. I am pretty sure I know what my choice will eventually be, although I'm not there yet (I know, I know...). In the mean time, I will be enjoying a weekend full of yoga, baseball, reading, a pedicure, and hanging out with non-mutual friends
As far as progressing - he's already bad. I know unless he stops completely, it will get worse. It made me laugh to even read the part about going to a bbq because he doesn't go out! He sits in his apartment and drinks alone. Completely isolates. We have many mutual friends, and most have not heard from him in about 6 months.
I am just starting to accept that he may NEVER, much less in the next few years, become the person that I want him to be. There is so much sadness that comes with this - I know it is the loss of a hypothetical person and only hoped-for relationship, but I feel like it would have been easier had he just been a normal guy who I dated and happened to break my heart. I am having a hard time even fathoming closure, as I know even if I cut myself out of his life, I will continue to think of him daily (I have for the last 8 years, well before I knew he was an alcoholic), we live in the same city, and have so many people in common.
Thank you again for your reply. I am pretty sure I know what my choice will eventually be, although I'm not there yet (I know, I know...). In the mean time, I will be enjoying a weekend full of yoga, baseball, reading, a pedicure, and hanging out with non-mutual friends
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hr4644-
well, at the end of the day, it's your life and you're not ready to detox from your alcoholic yet.
i guess all of us here are just trying to spare you further heartache. i was told 4 years ago to run from my alcoholic by the leader of the AA group here, but, like you i didn't.
in those four years, i got pregnant, had an abortion, flipped over in a car, lost all my savings, lost my home that was paid for, have been beaten up and cheated on.
just trying to spare you that, sweetheart.
if i was you, i would walk now. it just might be enough for him to get serious. if not, you certainly will miss him and think of him, but you'll eventually move on and hopefully, choose someone that you can count on rather than zero expectation man.
naive
well, at the end of the day, it's your life and you're not ready to detox from your alcoholic yet.
i guess all of us here are just trying to spare you further heartache. i was told 4 years ago to run from my alcoholic by the leader of the AA group here, but, like you i didn't.
in those four years, i got pregnant, had an abortion, flipped over in a car, lost all my savings, lost my home that was paid for, have been beaten up and cheated on.
just trying to spare you that, sweetheart.
if i was you, i would walk now. it just might be enough for him to get serious. if not, you certainly will miss him and think of him, but you'll eventually move on and hopefully, choose someone that you can count on rather than zero expectation man.
naive
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