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Old 07-07-2009, 06:43 PM
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I've been lurking and reading for a few days. I'm a non-drinker who wound up with a raging alcoholic BF. I say "wound up" because oddly he is the only alcoholic or substance abuser I've ever known personally. At any rate -- wow. For the first time in my life, I feel literally RAVAGED by stress. You know how we say we're "stressed out" all the time -- I did too, but this experience (1.5 years) has brought me to my knees, and when I walked out last week I did so because I felt like I was literally going to collapse and die from the effects of the repeated cycles of pain, disappointment, anger, and sadness.

I don't know what I am going to do - I'm staying at my mother's house and he is at our place...drinking...while allegedly going to 2 meetings a day.

So, I'm pretty sure I'm done. I went into this quite unaware that he had a problem and have emerged quite convinced that he is hopeless.

I do have a specific question and I'm sure it sounds idiotic, but....I always read about alcoholics who deny that they have a problem, much less that they are alcoholics. ABF openly admits he is an alcoholic. He has been a drinker since age 14 and is now 43. Mid-way through, I thought that was salvation -- he admitted he was an alcoholic and he sought help (in the form of rehab). It's turned out it really doesn't matter what he admits, he won't stop drinking for more than 2 weeks. After physical detox, he gets cocky almost immediately -- he has the worst life coping skills I think I have ever seen in my life. Despite 30 years of problem drinking, despite all the many, many, horrible (you can imagine) consequences....after five days of sobriety he thinks he's "over" it. Um, he's been to probably 5 or 6 residential rehabs over his lifetime. In the past 6 months, he's "quit" about 25 times for periods ranging from 1 day to 2 weeks.

So, I guess acknowledging the problem isn't really all that important? Or is it like he realizes he is an alcoholic in the chemically dependent sense, but doesn't not realize the behaviors, thoughts, and feelings which are part and parcel of it?

I feel horrible. I have a stressful job (I work with developmentally disabled adults, writing behavior programs and supervising staff) , an elderly mother, and I just can't handle what feels like a gigantic vaccum sucking my soul and energy out 24/7. I feel like crying all the time recently.

Thanks to all of you for your honest and helpful posts which I've been reading for days.

O
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:10 PM
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Welcome Olinda

I wish I had more time to comment on your post. I will do so tomorrow. Have to get up real early tomorrow. I just wanted to say welcome and keep coming back. this is the most wonderful group of people I have ever encountered in my life. It will be very beneficial to you.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:27 PM
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Hi Olinda and welcome! I'm no expert but from my experience with my AH I think that even though they may admit it, they don't truly believe it deep down inside and just say it because we want to hear it. My AH admitted he had a problem and tried quitting many times. He quit for a week or so many times, and I think that was enough to convince himself that he didn't have a problem and he would go right back. The last time he tried to quit on his own he ended up in the hospital, on a ventilator for 10 days and almost died, and then the lightbulb went on and he finally realized he was an alcoholic. He started going to AA daily and has now been sober for close to 60 days (although I suspect he may have been drinking a bit recently, but that's a subject for another thread). Admitting you have a problem is just part of it, they have to acknowledge it, accept it and truly want to change it.

Others much more knowledgeable will be along shortly. There is such a wealth of information and support here. In the meantime, keep posting and read the stickies at the top.

Good luck!
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:29 PM
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Honey I'd give you a big hug if I could. We've all been there-the stress, the disappointment, the frustration...

I think you hit on something there. I've been talking a lot to friend in recovery, to try to get inside my xabf's brain because nothing that happened btwn us makes sense to me. He explained, the behaviors thoughts and feelings of an alcoholic are always there...even when he/she gets sober. it's a way of life, a way of thinking, that non-addicts can't understand. They are simultaneously egocentric, and hate themselves.

Has he ever tried therapy, or going to AA? Perhaps if he got at the root of what pain he wanted to kill with alcohol in the first place...?

But there I go, trying to analyze other people again. I do this about my xabf constantly, even though we parted on Friday.

You need to look out for yourself now. You're probably a bit shellshocked. Do what feels good to you at this moment. You need to cry, cry. I've been crying a ton, lord knows. You need lots of self-comfort.

Originally Posted by olinda1 View Post
So, I guess acknowledging the problem isn't really all that important? Or is it like he realizes he is an alcoholic in the chemically dependent sense, but doesn't not realize the behaviors, thoughts, and feelings which are part and parcel of it?
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:50 PM
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Want2, my fingers are crossed for you that he doesn't relapse. That must have been really scary.

I wonder how many partners of A's wish the A would end up on a ventilator or some other such dire consequence, hoping it would drive the message home. I know I have. I used to hope he'd get a DUI and lose his license permanently (he lost it for 4 years about 14 years ago but eventually got it back, but one more and he loses lifetime driving privileges). For some f-d up reason, he seemed to always land on his feet, like a cat. He lost his job, and voila! Obama plan extended unemployment benefits from 6 months to now over a year....etc. etc. He catches a break allllll the time, it's really weird!

On the flip side, I used to tell ABF that I knew he COULD quit drinking because I knew if someone appeared and say, offered him five million dollars if he never drank again, he'd quit -- right there and forever. I truly believe that. But then that's really just saying that if responsibilities and hardships and many daily stresses of work, etc. were removed, he'd abstain because his inability to handle that is why he drinks.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by olinda1 View Post
Want2, my fingers are crossed for you that he doesn't relapse. That must have been really scary. .
Thank you but I'm afraid he already has. It was scary, but it was kind of a relief too. I know that sounds unkind and I don't mean it to be, but from what you say below, I think you understand.

Originally Posted by olinda1 View Post
I wonder how many partners of A's wish the A would end up on a ventilator or some other such dire consequence, hoping it would drive the message home. I know I have. I used to hope he'd get a DUI and lose his license permanently (he lost it for 4 years about 14 years ago but eventually got it back, but one more and he loses lifetime driving privileges). For some f-d up reason, he seemed to always land on his feet, like a cat. He lost his job, and voila! Obama plan extended unemployment benefits from 6 months to now over a year....etc. etc. He catches a break allllll the time, it's really weird!

On the flip side, I used to tell ABF that I knew he COULD quit drinking because I knew if someone appeared and say, offered him five million dollars if he never drank again, he'd quit -- right there and forever. I truly believe that. But then that's really just saying that if responsibilities and hardships and many daily stresses of work, etc. were removed, he'd abstain because his inability to handle that is why he drinks.
Regarding the paragraph above, I think that you hit the nail on the head. Not only do they have to admit and accept the problem, but they also have to work on the underlying issues that causes them to try to numb the pain. I believe this is why AA and therapy is crucial.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:03 PM
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Sandrawg, thanks. Shellshocked is probably a good description!

Yep, they think differently. You know what's strange to me? It's the number of women whose alcoholic partners are described as fantastically great.......except when they're drinking. That puzzles me. I wonder if some A's are "just" addicted to alcohol -- as a primary problem -- and others are seriously troubled emotionally people who just collaterally abuse alcohol.

I know my ABF is almost as bad sober as he is drunk in terms of self-centeredness. When he gets sober, I realize why he drinks -- he cannot cope with life.

I am apart from all else, soooooo BORED of him and his volatile, cliff's edge, Me Me Me, narrow and friendless world.... UGGHGHGH.

I feel better, thanks for the place to vent and the kind reply......
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:21 PM
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Hi olinda
Time will prove you took the best decision for yourself and your sanity. An alcoholic told me this when I was crying my heart out at an AA meeting.

My ex bf is like that as well - he is the luckiest guy in the world, whatever happens things magically appear for him. I believe he will outlive us all.

Its sad and no, you will never ever understand him so.. don't try... when I feel bad I remember the following

-alcoholism is chronic, so unless someone is serious about recovery, there will be relapses and a hellish rollercoaster

-alcoholism is progressive, we tend to think of what we lost but we also need to notice what DIDN'T HAPPEN... such as having accidents with them driving, emotional abuse that goes for years, physical abuse, going bankrupt... ups and downs.... becoming addicts ourselves...TONS of stress...

We got a new shot at happiness and a new shot to finding a partner that will be... a... PARTNER... not a child, or an adolescent... not an addict... someone healthier as we get healthier ourselves.

I am not sure if you got kids but I find some solace thinking my future kids will not have a selfish, irresponsible alcoholic as a father but someone who will be there for them too and who understands the concept of love, self love, family and affection. None of that seems to matter to an active alcoholic. Its normal to feel compassion but it is not fair to suffer a disease that is not ours.

We are free.

Hugs!!
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:37 PM
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(((((Olinda)))))

Welcome to SR. You have found a great place with lots of Experience, Strength & Hope (ES&H) from folks who have been where you are now or who are where you are now.

Okay, going to put on my "Sober and Clean" hat for a bit, lol

Every alcoholic's bottom is different. I unfortunately, had to take it to death. I was given a second chance. And I have to tell you, that even after having the TOD put on my ER chart, coming back to life, going into a Recovery House for alcoholic women, I STILL had doubts after a few months (I was feeling better). It's called 'denial.' But, I wanted to live and I guess I knew I had no more chances left, so worked real hard to IGNORE that voice that kept telling me 'this time would be different.' (King Alcohol just didn't want to let go.)

"Acknowledging the problem" many times can be a MANIPULATION tactic to appease the person or persons in their lives that are giving them harassment (in their mind) about their drinking. Sort of 'smoothing the waters' to keep the 'status quo.'

Now that being said, and having worked with many alcoholics/addicts trying to find recovery, and dealing with it in my own family .......................................... the things that I had to BURN into the very soul of my being were:

The 3 C's:

I didn't CAUSE it.

I can't CONTROL it.

I can't CURE it.

That means I have to stop being Mrs. Fix It and allow the A in my life at the moment the freedom of choice. It is there choice. Some make it and some don't.

You are taking care of you by leaving the situation.

Please check around the site, read the 'stickys' at the top of the forum, lots of good info there.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, as we do care so very much.

Love and hugs,
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:51 AM
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My ex bf is like that as well - he is the luckiest guy in the world, whatever happens things magically appear for him. I believe he will outlive us all.
LOL!!! We are dating the same man, I'm now completely convinced! My ex drinks and gambles all month. Every week he puts in a three teamer and loses. Every week. At the end of the month he never has enough money for rent. EVERY MONTH. At the end of every month he takes the last few dollars out of his drunken pocket and puts on a six teamer that has NO CHANCE of winning. Every month it hits, he wins and has just enough money for rent and bills. Every month. He has come so close to eviction on so many occasions I'm sure he could taste it, but he always wins those last chance bets. Insanity! The guy is LUCKY! Sometimes I'm tempted to plop him next to me at a craps table just so he can blow on the dice! He's also a chronic smoker (I've never smoked a day in my life) and I know I'll die of lung cancer long before he does because that's perfectly in keeping with the irony that has been my relationship with him!

I think they can admitt that they're alcoholics and still be in denial. My ex is well aware he is an alcoholic and admitted it regularly, telling me that he was "a sick man" and so on... I think the denial comes in once they start blaming you for their pain, their drinking, or their rapidly deteriorating lives. Denial is when they find fault with everyone and everything in life so they can justify their own unacceptable actions. At the tail end of my relationship my ex was going on about someone who he thought was a degenerate and I said, "Who DON'T you think is a degenerate?" Everyone in his life had been one at one point or another and I think it made him feel better to believe that he was above everyone. Sure, I drink a crap ton of beer every day, but everyone else is way crazier than ME so... Denial can manifest itself in so many different ways outside of them admitting "I'm an alcoholic".

I'm an alcoholic, but I can control it. I'm an alcoholic, but I'm holding a job and paying rent. I'm an alcoholic but you're worse because you're this, and you're that and blah blah blah. All denial.

At first I didn't think my ex was in denial because he was always taking about how bad his problem was, but he is very, very much in denial. I think when an alcoholic STOPS being in denial... is when they have finally hit bottom. It's the only time that their agony prevails over all and they're past the point of pretending it isn't there. But that can take a very long time. Not worth waiting around for if you ask me.

Last edited by Crazy4Him; 07-08-2009 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:35 AM
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denial...its all your fault and everyone else

Originally Posted by Crazy4Him View Post
LOL!!! We are dating the same man, I'm now completely convinced! My ex drinks and gambles all month. Every week he puts in a three teamer and loses. Every week. At the end of the month he never has enough money for rent. EVERY MONTH. At the end of every month he takes the last few dollars out of his drunken pocket and puts on a six teamer that has NO CHANCE of winning. Every month it hits, he wins and has just enough money for rent and bills. Every month. He has come so close to eviction on so many occasions I'm sure he could taste it, but he always wins those last chance bets. Insanity! The guy is LUCKY! Sometimes I'm tempted to plop him next to me at a craps table just so he can blow on the dice! He's also a chronic smoker (I've never smoked a day in my life) and I know I'll die of lung cancer long before he does because that's perfectly in keeping with the irony that has been my relationship with him!

I think they can admitt that they're alcoholics and still be in denial. My ex is well aware he is an alcoholic and admitted it regularly, telling me that he was "a sick man" and so on... I think the denial comes in once they start blaming you for their pain, their drinking, or their rapidly deteriorating lives. Denial is when they find fault with everyone and everything in life so they can justify their own unacceptable actions. At the tail end of my relationship my ex was going on about someone who he thought was a degenerate and I said, "Who DON'T you think is a degenerate?" Everyone in his life had been one at one point or another and I think it made him feel better to believe that he was above everyone. Sure, I drink a crap ton of beer every day, but everyone else is way crazier than ME so... Denial can manifest itself in so many different ways outside of them admitting "I'm an alcoholic".

I'm an alcoholic, but I can control it. I'm an alcoholic, but I'm holding a job and paying rent. I'm an alcoholic but you're worse because you're this, and you're that and blah blah blah. All denial.

At first I didn't think my ex was in denial because he was always taking about how bad his problem was, but he is very, very much in denial. I think when an alcoholic STOPS being in denial... is when they have finally hit bottom. It's the only time that their agony prevails over all and they're past the point of pretending it isn't there. But that can take a very long time. Not worth waiting around for if you ask me.
Its so true of my STBEXAH just before he left. Life it seemed was not exciting enough, we were all boring, he was fed up with everyone, but most especially me, who was blamed publicly for being all sorts of terrible things which made people look at me instead of his actions. My Ah when he left said "Im an alcoholic and thats not going to change" this was his reason for leaving me, (I didnt know all the hateful things he thought about me then, he hadnt said them to my face) he knew it had gone too far and he just didnt want to stop drinking. But his life had deteriorated especially as his drinking was much worse than I knew, he had gone straight back to his worst point before he gave up for 6 months and went to AA. Once he started again the decline was rapid, his behaviour unpleasant even to strangers and no-one was good enough. His arrogance had become incredible, so different from the man I met 7 years earlier although he was an alcoholic then, i just chose not to see it. He started drinking at 14 and at 43 he is a mess, but hes living the life he wants, with nothing, shrugs off all responsibilities even for his children who needed him in the UK..Oh I could go on, but yes it was all my fault and anyone else he thought might see through him....he tried very hard with lies and manipulation to be seen as the one who was ok in this marriage, it was my behaviour (a provoker) that needed to change. Im very angry about the things he said but I know they are all part of his denial, blame is so important, threats of abandonment were also an integral part of our married life, so when he did it last, it wasnt really a shock, I knew it was coming really and now he can never do it again. That is a relief. He also cannot blame me anymore as Im not in his life in any shape or form. Hugs Lilly
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:46 AM
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Ah yes, even if they are long gone, there is still blame, when I talked to his friends they told me "he states you two broke up because you have issues" I mean yes.. but what about the other 50%??? SHEEESH

Also, regarding apologies, the hurt is so much its almost an insult they do not acknowledge even the 0.0000005% of it. I have been asked for apologies for so many little things in comparison. Again.. denial.

It all comes to a point where you just have to "surrender" and say, symbolically, "take it. take it all... your version of things..shout it out to the world... take aLL the common friends... go drink... go get your women.... go live your 'superwild life'... i give up. just take it all and leave me alone where i can find some peace" honestly... you just will never be able to reason.

Crazy4Him, why don't we live in year 2080? we would have teleporting machines and I can trade my ex for your ex so we can work calmly and without any triggers. LOL. If your ex were here I would read all the office pranks in Dilbert books and try a different one every day, I mean many times I stay late hours and there is no one, so it would be perfect LOL his first day I would shut down his network port throughout the day, so whatever he has to say in emails, etc would be lost in the wire, driving him crazy

Or we could teleport George Clooney... that would work...

I always bring up George Clooney, LOL he just gives me so much hope!

OK I will stop rambling
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:34 PM
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"My ex bf is like that as well - he is the luckiest guy in the world, whatever happens things magically appear for him. I believe he will outlive us all."

uh, because I don't know how to select and highlight quotes yet. Anyway...

Here is how lucky ABF is: Got his degree later in life (40) and after a lifetime of waiting tables and bartending, got a solid job in Public Health Dept. Very decent salary, benefits (a first for him) but he didn't like the strange (9-5) hours (hangovers in AM a problem) and wanted to work outdoors. Soooo... found a SWEET job managing a recreational lake: house on lake site provided, NO RENT, found great tenants for house he already owned, PLUS salary was 42K, more than he'd earned at public health job, PLUS deluxe benefit package, PLUS company vehicle provided, BOAT provided, duties basically supervising staff at bait shop, keeping peace in campgrounds, patrolling lake, etc. Do I need to say that soon he took a few too many peeps up on offers of joining them for a drink, had serious problems following rules on how to do the paperwork (he knew better than they did), and within 4 months came up with idea on own that he needed rehab b/c he was drinking a fifth of whiskey a day plus wine and was literally a hideous orange/yellow shade. He took a 30 day leave to go to rehab at the peak of the lake season, leaving his place a filthy mess and failing to arrange for his large dogs to be taken care of properly during his absence so they tore it up even more and then when a staffperson took the dogs to her place to help him out while he was in the "hospital" (as he referred to it), they killed her cat and she quit, forcing the General Manager to take her place operating the bait shop. ABF got out of rehab, got written up for "unsanitary premises" but was kept on (he had a contract but not unbreakable). After staying sober for 46 days, he began drinking again and got caught (unbeknownst to him) buying liquor at a store while driving his company vehicle. The company surprised him the next day when he was three sheets to the wind by demanding a pee test on the spot. Hmmm, apparently they aren't foolproof, because he PASSED!! This made him more cocky than ever, and he kept drinking. The Lake closed November 1, and he'd put in a month of low profile decent behavior, but SHOCKINGLY they did not renew his contract for the next season (he couldn't believe it).
By the time he had to vacate the premises, he was drinking so much he just passed out every day about 4pm and after several extensions, was warned to get out or the police would be called. He did not leave, and the General Manager finally came in person and found him passed out amidst an even worse unsanitary mess; the GM actually had to call his next of kin (brother)to come get him and his stuff out of the house. The brother took him straight to to detox for a week. Still, he got to draw his salary for the last three months of the contract. I thought he was sooo lucky to have a salary for three months while he found another job. But ZOINKS!! he informed me he was filing for unemployment. I was like, uh, I'm doubting that you can get it, seeing as how you were basically shitcanned from the job, had to be literally dragged out of the place, they had to replace the carpeting in the whole house, and you left for 30 days at peak of the season for rehab. Not sure, but you know I really kinda think it's a no go. NOOOOO ---they protested it , but he GOT unemployment.

A few days after the claim was approved, he got a letter explaining that Obama's plan extended benefits from 6 months to at least one year.

He's been drinking and making $1800 a month for six months now. Oh....and COOL!!!! the new student loan relief plan means he doesn't have to pay more than $10 a month on his student loans, instead of $250!!

I know this was disgracefully long, but OMG!!!! Can you believe this? Me? If I drive 10 feet out of my driveway before I put my seatbelt on, there are red flashing lights in my rearview.

Totally seriously, this all makes me wonder about the higher power and the existence of karma.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:40 PM
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And one other thing --- at rehab, his blood/lab tests had really high, bad, bad, bad, horrible liver enzyme things or whatever. The doctor was like, you are a dead man if you do not stop.

40 days later, another round of tests showed all within normal range. Please don't think I wish liver failure on anyone, but it's just WEIRD. After 30 years of hard drinking,and he'd already been diagnosed previously with "fatty liver," his liver was just peachy.

It's as if he is protected Kryptonite-like from any consquences of his drinking.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:02 AM
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We are not aware of what happens past the ..to be continued...phase of the addict...there aren't many successful older addicts...if you are curious and want to know look around the boards...they can tell you that success, happiness and addiction never stick together long...consider the few acts of grace as a wink or nudge from God to say get on your feet, it is their choice to test the toxic waters.
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