Fighting with myself.
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
Fighting with myself.
I decided awhile ago that I wasn't going to post anymore, just kick back and read what others had to say (which have helped me greatly).
But I'm not doing so well and I really need whatever yall have to offer.
I've set my boundaries in the past. I've made it clear what I will and will not accept. But it never much mattered to ABF, he would try most of the time to respect them. Or he'd twist them somewhat just enough to where I'd think I hadn't been clear enough--sneaky twisting to a point (for example I said I wouldn't be around him when he was drinking--for awhile he didn't drink at all that day and we'd be together at night. Then he got to where he'd drink up until we were together and then he'd stop drinking).
Anyway. A few weeks ago I finally said enough was enough. I said everything I needed to say, asked him not to call or text or email me anymore. I gave no explanation, not really anyway. I simply said he crossed my boundaries for the last time, I couldn't deal with it anymore and walked out the door. He called me the next night, asked if I was still his and I said "I don't know". He started crying, tried to talk but couldn't and ended up hanging up.
I balled my eyes out.
He sent an email about a week later. Said I was just trying to change him and it's wrong of me to want him to quit drinking--because there's nothing wrong with a man having a few beers just to be a man. I wrote back, said I was not trying to change him and I'm sorry he felt that way but I was tired of having my boundaries crossed and won't be with someone who can't respect my needs. I sent it, blocked his address from my email, logged off and bawled my eyes out.
A few days later he sent a text. Please come home baby I'm sorry, it won't happen again. I deleted it.
Left a voice mail the next day. He was sober, I'm sure of it. He was crying, telling me how much I mean to him and how he needs me and the kids in his life and there's no reason to keep going if we're not there. He was sorry for all he'd done and all he wanted was a chance to make up for those mistakes. I deleted the voice mail, hung up and bawled my eyes out.
Several more similar voice mails. Usually followed a few hours later with something along the lines of since I'm too busy to answer his calls or return his messages then I can come get my stuff from his house and never come back again and I better hope I come alone and he never sees me with another guy. Delete, delete, delete. (I have ordered a new cell plan, got the phone today, service will be activated within 72 hours and at that time I'll disconnect my old phone). My cell is the only phone I have.
He told me once that I just see the "bad" times and think they were because he was drinking so these boundaries are just stupid and my way of wanting to make him my b**ch and be who I want him to be. That I've just told myself so many times that our problems were because of his drinking so now when he is drinking I just automatically assume the worst (I actually told him about a month ago that was good to know--when he puts it that way it just tells me he's an ass all the time, drinking or not). That didn't go over too well.
I love him. And I want to be with him. But it's so hard to trust him anymore. Even when I want to I don't. Even when I think I can I choose not to. And he blames me.
So why do I still feel so guilty?? I can give reason after reason after reason to convince myself that what I'm doing is right but once I do it I feel so guilty. Like I'm giving up on someone who really needs help!!! But I can't do it anymore!!! I'm not as awful a person as he makes me out to be. We've had some good conversations over the years, and I guess a part of me misses them. A part of me misses the good times, the happy memories. But the bad ones are outweighing the good ones and I guess because of that I feel like I'm wrong for ignoring him, even when he's trying to be nice.
Am I? I feel like if I respond to him, when he's sober and being "nice" and all is well it's going to almost tell him that we're okay and I'M sorry for thinking so bad about his drinking and almost agreeing that it's not HIM who has a drinking problem it's ME who has a problem with his drinking (oh yeah, heard that one a million and two times). And I don't want him to think that, because it's not true (not for me).
Sorry for writing so much. I guess I just want someone to tell me I'm right or I'm wrong--I don't much care either way. Cause right now accepting his calls doesn't sound like the right thing but ignoring his calls doesn't feel like the right thing either. It feels like either way I'm giving up--either on him or on myself. If I take his calls, I've given up on myself. If I keep ignoring his calls, I've given up on helping someone who really needs it.
They said my cell would change WITHIN 72 hours. I hope it's real darn quick; otherwise the next three days are going to be really hard.
But I'm not doing so well and I really need whatever yall have to offer.
I've set my boundaries in the past. I've made it clear what I will and will not accept. But it never much mattered to ABF, he would try most of the time to respect them. Or he'd twist them somewhat just enough to where I'd think I hadn't been clear enough--sneaky twisting to a point (for example I said I wouldn't be around him when he was drinking--for awhile he didn't drink at all that day and we'd be together at night. Then he got to where he'd drink up until we were together and then he'd stop drinking).
Anyway. A few weeks ago I finally said enough was enough. I said everything I needed to say, asked him not to call or text or email me anymore. I gave no explanation, not really anyway. I simply said he crossed my boundaries for the last time, I couldn't deal with it anymore and walked out the door. He called me the next night, asked if I was still his and I said "I don't know". He started crying, tried to talk but couldn't and ended up hanging up.
I balled my eyes out.
He sent an email about a week later. Said I was just trying to change him and it's wrong of me to want him to quit drinking--because there's nothing wrong with a man having a few beers just to be a man. I wrote back, said I was not trying to change him and I'm sorry he felt that way but I was tired of having my boundaries crossed and won't be with someone who can't respect my needs. I sent it, blocked his address from my email, logged off and bawled my eyes out.
A few days later he sent a text. Please come home baby I'm sorry, it won't happen again. I deleted it.
Left a voice mail the next day. He was sober, I'm sure of it. He was crying, telling me how much I mean to him and how he needs me and the kids in his life and there's no reason to keep going if we're not there. He was sorry for all he'd done and all he wanted was a chance to make up for those mistakes. I deleted the voice mail, hung up and bawled my eyes out.
Several more similar voice mails. Usually followed a few hours later with something along the lines of since I'm too busy to answer his calls or return his messages then I can come get my stuff from his house and never come back again and I better hope I come alone and he never sees me with another guy. Delete, delete, delete. (I have ordered a new cell plan, got the phone today, service will be activated within 72 hours and at that time I'll disconnect my old phone). My cell is the only phone I have.
He told me once that I just see the "bad" times and think they were because he was drinking so these boundaries are just stupid and my way of wanting to make him my b**ch and be who I want him to be. That I've just told myself so many times that our problems were because of his drinking so now when he is drinking I just automatically assume the worst (I actually told him about a month ago that was good to know--when he puts it that way it just tells me he's an ass all the time, drinking or not). That didn't go over too well.
I love him. And I want to be with him. But it's so hard to trust him anymore. Even when I want to I don't. Even when I think I can I choose not to. And he blames me.
So why do I still feel so guilty?? I can give reason after reason after reason to convince myself that what I'm doing is right but once I do it I feel so guilty. Like I'm giving up on someone who really needs help!!! But I can't do it anymore!!! I'm not as awful a person as he makes me out to be. We've had some good conversations over the years, and I guess a part of me misses them. A part of me misses the good times, the happy memories. But the bad ones are outweighing the good ones and I guess because of that I feel like I'm wrong for ignoring him, even when he's trying to be nice.
Am I? I feel like if I respond to him, when he's sober and being "nice" and all is well it's going to almost tell him that we're okay and I'M sorry for thinking so bad about his drinking and almost agreeing that it's not HIM who has a drinking problem it's ME who has a problem with his drinking (oh yeah, heard that one a million and two times). And I don't want him to think that, because it's not true (not for me).
Sorry for writing so much. I guess I just want someone to tell me I'm right or I'm wrong--I don't much care either way. Cause right now accepting his calls doesn't sound like the right thing but ignoring his calls doesn't feel like the right thing either. It feels like either way I'm giving up--either on him or on myself. If I take his calls, I've given up on myself. If I keep ignoring his calls, I've given up on helping someone who really needs it.
They said my cell would change WITHIN 72 hours. I hope it's real darn quick; otherwise the next three days are going to be really hard.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
If I keep ignoring his calls, I've given up on helping someone who really needs it.
He's not.
I'm sorry you're still going through this but I love all the progress you've made. It may not seem like it sometimes, but you've really come a long, long way.
This is not about him getting help. This is about him doing whatever he has to do, saying whatever he has to say, to get his comfy relationship back the way he wants it, no matter whether it is good for you or not, no matter whether his tactics hurt you or not.
Did you think you were important in his equation? You're not. He wants you back, and on HIS terms (he doesn't have to change anything - YOU have to change your needs). He's pulling out every trick in the book to get you to obey his needs.
What you've just written is a textbook example of alcoholic quacking. Or, as Laurie would type, QUACKING. And it's working on you today (I'm sorry). So a little anti-quack:
You're right to leave a situation where the bad is outnumbering the good.
You're right to remove your kids from that relationship before (hopefully before) they can learn how to be an adult from him.
You're right to want to be happy.
You're right to expect to be respected in your relationships.
You're right to say, "This is what I need."
You're right to leave a bad relationship like this.
You're DEAD right to do the things you're doing: going no-contact, setting and protecting boundaries, etc.
One adjustment that I guarantee will help you:
You don't have to listen to his messages. You can delete them without listening.
It is hard. To me, it felt a little like getting poked with a vaccine needle -- a little pain up-front (resisting listening) to ensure freedom from pain later.
Listening to them is giving power to his b.s., making you feel like you're superwoman who ought to be coming to his rescue, making you feel like what you want is wrong, undermining the progress you've worked so hard for.
Stop listening. There is nothing valuable coming out of his mouth. Just threats, put-downs, self-pity, selfish whining, and manipulation, carefully orchestrated to get what he wants. And I don't know about you, but that's not exactly my idea of an attractive man.
Just my two cents'. I hope you continue on this road to self-preservation, for you and your kids. BTW, if you want someone to help out, I know a lot of great guys who AREN'T drunks who could use a good, able partner in life. They're out there waiting for you, whenever your heart's ready to let mister "you better not date anybody else" go his own way.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by kv816 
it's not HIM who has a drinking problem it's ME who has a problem with his drinking (oh yeah, heard that one a million and two times). And I don't want him to think that, because it's not true (not for me).
Originally Posted by kv816
It feels like either way I'm giving up--either on him or on myself. If I take his calls, I've given up on myself. If I keep ignoring his calls, I've given up on helping someone who really needs it.
L
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by GiveLove
his is not about him getting help. This is about him doing whatever he has to do, saying whatever he has to say, to get his comfy relationship back the way he wants it, no matter whether it is good for you or not, no matter whether his tactics hurt you or not.
Did you think you were important in his equation? You're not. He wants you back, and on HIS terms (he doesn't have to change anything - YOU have to change your needs). He's pulling out every trick in the book to get you to obey his needs.
Did you think you were important in his equation? You're not. He wants you back, and on HIS terms (he doesn't have to change anything - YOU have to change your needs). He's pulling out every trick in the book to get you to obey his needs.
Originally Posted by GiveLove
You're right to leave a situation where the bad is outnumbering the good.
You're right to remove your kids from that relationship before (hopefully before) they can learn how to be an adult from him.
You're right to want to be happy.
You're right to expect to be respected in your relationships.
You're right to say, "This is what I need."
You're right to leave a bad relationship like this.
You're DEAD right to do the things you're doing: going no-contact, setting and protecting boundaries, etc.
You're right to remove your kids from that relationship before (hopefully before) they can learn how to be an adult from him.
You're right to want to be happy.
You're right to expect to be respected in your relationships.
You're right to say, "This is what I need."
You're right to leave a bad relationship like this.
You're DEAD right to do the things you're doing: going no-contact, setting and protecting boundaries, etc.
Originally Posted by GiveLove
One adjustment that I guarantee will help you:
You don't have to listen to his messages. You can delete them without listening.
You don't have to listen to his messages. You can delete them without listening.
Mister "you better not date anybody else" can go any direction other than the one I'm going.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I don't care if he doesn't change, I just won't live with it anymore.
)I'm glad you're more interested in your own happiness now than you are in his. That's changed in you too, and it's one of the critical elements in OUR recovery: realizing that our own safety and quality of life is the only thing under our control.
And you can paste that list wherever you want -- there was a time when I just about had to tattoo it on my arm, I kept forgetting....
Hang in there. Hope you get your new phone on tonight.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
This is not about him getting help. This is about him doing whatever he has to do, saying whatever he has to say, to get his comfy relationship back the way he wants it, no matter whether it is good for you or not, no matter whether his tactics hurt you or not. -GiveLove
My thoughts exactly. GL - I'm saving this one for later, thanks!
Alice
My thoughts exactly. GL - I'm saving this one for later, thanks!
Alice
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
I feel like I'm wrong for ignoring him, even when he's trying to be nice.
Remember what he has done to hurt you. Remember how many times you have cried. Remember how many times you have been lurking in SR when you could have been, say, watching videos you like, reading the latest on Sarah Jessica Parker in a famous online gossip magazine, or done so many other things that do not involve suffering and crying your heart out.
He could have been nice all those times before, and he wasn't. What makes you think it will be any different? It won't. It will just be worse.
As much as it hurts, no contact is for the best. Many of us try to contact them again, reason, sort out stuff, etc etc well it never works. That throws us off balance because with other relations you can actually interact, you are someone on the relation, you may part but it won't be horribly, etc etc. that is SO not the case with an alcoholic. Breathe. You already lost the battle - you cant control him, you cannot cure him. Do you really believe that? Its true.
In another webpage they say "alcoholics are more destructive than schizophrenics, because when schizophrenics start shouting out nonsense, hallucinate, etc we all know they are insane and we disregard anything else. alcoholics are way more subtle and in that subtlety lies madness for any unfortunate soul across their path"
Well, something like that. Imagine he is not an alcoholic but someone truly insane. Would you suffer because they are hallucinating, saying nonsense, etc etc? No! you would be dettached and thinking "poor you, you are sick". Stop making the psycho ward your home. Leave them with other psychos, you are growing out of this madness.
I know how painful it all is... specially at first... but remember you are powerless against this, there is nothing you can do or say, and he will keep being the same with any other person... he can go on drinking all the bottles in the world (i am not sure if he can, because my own ex is busy already doing that), destroying, manipulating, acting, throwing to the drain something that was beautiful, etc etc but YOU wont be around anymore!!
You will be making love to a real man in the beach (stole this from another poster, sorry!) by then and thinking "gosh how great that dark ages stage of my life is over, i know who i am, i can love and be loved back..i can soar regardless of ANYONE else"
It will be a beautiful moment, keep the focus you are on the right path!
Remember what he has done to hurt you. Remember how many times you have cried. Remember how many times you have been lurking in SR when you could have been, say, watching videos you like, reading the latest on Sarah Jessica Parker in a famous online gossip magazine, or done so many other things that do not involve suffering and crying your heart out.
He could have been nice all those times before, and he wasn't. What makes you think it will be any different? It won't. It will just be worse.
As much as it hurts, no contact is for the best. Many of us try to contact them again, reason, sort out stuff, etc etc well it never works. That throws us off balance because with other relations you can actually interact, you are someone on the relation, you may part but it won't be horribly, etc etc. that is SO not the case with an alcoholic. Breathe. You already lost the battle - you cant control him, you cannot cure him. Do you really believe that? Its true.
In another webpage they say "alcoholics are more destructive than schizophrenics, because when schizophrenics start shouting out nonsense, hallucinate, etc we all know they are insane and we disregard anything else. alcoholics are way more subtle and in that subtlety lies madness for any unfortunate soul across their path"
Well, something like that. Imagine he is not an alcoholic but someone truly insane. Would you suffer because they are hallucinating, saying nonsense, etc etc? No! you would be dettached and thinking "poor you, you are sick". Stop making the psycho ward your home. Leave them with other psychos, you are growing out of this madness.
I know how painful it all is... specially at first... but remember you are powerless against this, there is nothing you can do or say, and he will keep being the same with any other person... he can go on drinking all the bottles in the world (i am not sure if he can, because my own ex is busy already doing that), destroying, manipulating, acting, throwing to the drain something that was beautiful, etc etc but YOU wont be around anymore!!
You will be making love to a real man in the beach (stole this from another poster, sorry!) by then and thinking "gosh how great that dark ages stage of my life is over, i know who i am, i can love and be loved back..i can soar regardless of ANYONE else"
It will be a beautiful moment, keep the focus you are on the right path!
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
I'm not trying to manipulate him anymore. I don't think so anyway. He'll tell you otherwise of course. A few mutual friends have mentioned that it's wrong of me to stay away just because he won't stop drinking. They don't see how he gets when he is drinking...most likely because they don't live with it. So they don't understand that it's not his drinking that keeps me away--it's how he treats me when he is drinking that does. I often thought that his outbursts towards me weren't necessarily ABOUT me because of me but because he was comfortable with me and I "took it" for so long that he knew he could get away with it. Does that make sense?
So I guess that's the way it'll be for anyone who doesn't see what he does as a problem. They'll think that I'm leaving because he drinks and I don't want to be with a drinker and knowing that he wants to be with me but me not being with him because of the drinking is my trying to manipulate him into being what I want him to be. And that's fine really. I don't need his (drinking) buddies approval to be a better person or to feel like I deserve better.
But even knowing that doesn't make it easier. I still somewhat, on my low days, feel like I'm battling the world. I guess that's what today is, a low day. Some days just take more reassurance than others.
I'm hanging in there though. My new phone came today (and I LOVE it--it's pink with darker pink flowers on the top). I've already added the song "Scars" by Papa Roach to the ring tone. It doesn't ring yet, will soon though. But I look forward to hearing it when it does.
YouTube - Papa Roach - Scars: 1/26 - 1/27 Second Version, Closed Captioned
So I guess that's the way it'll be for anyone who doesn't see what he does as a problem. They'll think that I'm leaving because he drinks and I don't want to be with a drinker and knowing that he wants to be with me but me not being with him because of the drinking is my trying to manipulate him into being what I want him to be. And that's fine really. I don't need his (drinking) buddies approval to be a better person or to feel like I deserve better.
But even knowing that doesn't make it easier. I still somewhat, on my low days, feel like I'm battling the world. I guess that's what today is, a low day. Some days just take more reassurance than others.
I'm hanging in there though. My new phone came today (and I LOVE it--it's pink with darker pink flowers on the top). I've already added the song "Scars" by Papa Roach to the ring tone. It doesn't ring yet, will soon though. But I look forward to hearing it when it does.
YouTube - Papa Roach - Scars: 1/26 - 1/27 Second Version, Closed Captioned
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
qote kv:
"He told me once that I just see the "bad" times and think they were because he was drinking so these boundaries are just stupid and my way of wanting to make him my b**ch and be who I want him to be. That I've just told myself so many times that our problems were because of his drinking so now when he is drinking I just automatically assume the worst (I actually told him about a month ago that was good to know--when he puts it that way it just tells me he's an ass all the time, drinking or not). That didn't go over too well."
It may not have went over well but that don't change the truth. Good job. I laughed really hard too.:-) So my question is what is so great about him that you struggle with accepting that you should not overlook that he is in general an "ass"? kv, he may love you with feeling, but how many, if any, of his behaviors evidence love instead of harm?
1 Corinthians 13:4-8, here is an eye opening exercise to help you hold your ground. As an overall behavior in regards to love what do you evaluate from the below? Then ask yourself how you feel about what you discovered? Then how will you act in love as to what is best for all involved, especially those you account to God for.
( that would be you and your kiddos on issues they have not account over themselves :-)
Love is patient : is he patient with you? does being with him make you want to be patient with him? Are you patient with your kids?
[I] love is kind[/I]: is he kind towards you? does being with him bring out kindness in you towards him? Are you kind to your kids?
It does not envy, is he not envious of you? Are you envious of him? Are you envious of your kids?
it does not boast, does he not boast at you? do you boast at him? Do you boast at your kids?
it is not proud. is he not proud in response towards you? Are you pride filled in response towards him? Are you pride filled when dealing with your kids?
5It is not rude, is he not rude too you? Are you rude to him? Are you rude to your kids?
it is not self-seeking, does he seek to serve you with what is best for you? So you seek to serve him with what is best for him? Do you serve your kids with what is best for them?
[I]it is not easily angered,[/I] is he not quick to anger with you? Are you quick to anger with him? Are you quick to anger with your kids?
it keeps no record of wrongs. does he forgive your actual wrongs/ what he perceives as wrongs? do you forgive him his actual wrongs/ what you perceive as wrongs? Do you hold a record of wrongs over your children?
6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. Is truth what he seeks to rejoice in with you? Soes seeking truth with him bring out our rejoicing? Do you rejoice with truth as it pertains to your children?
7It always protects, does he long to protect you from harm from yourself or others?( of course you would never have to protect yourself from your lover who always wants to protect you, that part is self evident, right? ) Do you long to protect him from himself and others?( *allowing him to face consequences is protecting, to not let him is self-seeking so that you will not be uncomfortable with him having to go through a tough time) So you long to protect your children?
always trusts, does he trust you? Does he nurture your trust for him? Do you nurture your kids to trust you, set an example so that they will understand the importance for you to trust them as they take on more with growth and maturity? always hopes, Does he hope for the best for you? Do you hope for the best for him? Do you hope for you children :-), the best, whatever that will look like?
always perseveres. Does he long to do the hard work so that love perseveres? Does he bring out perseverance in regards to your love for one another? Is your love for you children be one of perseverance?
8Love never fails. His his love never failing because he patterns the above? If your love for him unfailing because he patterns the above? Do you teach your children by the example of behaviors above that " true" love never fails?
Excellent on the phone issue!!!!!!!! But if he gets the phone number I want you to be strong enough in your resolve to deal with that. So the above exercise is meant to help you grasp with your heart and mind the truth of your situation so that you may stand firm and persevere. Actually, I want this love above to always be in the tomorrows of your situations. With your kids, your friends, your family, and a man who wants to build you up and not tear you down. A man you can build up and not fear.
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
love tammy
"He told me once that I just see the "bad" times and think they were because he was drinking so these boundaries are just stupid and my way of wanting to make him my b**ch and be who I want him to be. That I've just told myself so many times that our problems were because of his drinking so now when he is drinking I just automatically assume the worst (I actually told him about a month ago that was good to know--when he puts it that way it just tells me he's an ass all the time, drinking or not). That didn't go over too well."
It may not have went over well but that don't change the truth. Good job. I laughed really hard too.:-) So my question is what is so great about him that you struggle with accepting that you should not overlook that he is in general an "ass"? kv, he may love you with feeling, but how many, if any, of his behaviors evidence love instead of harm?
1 Corinthians 13:4-8, here is an eye opening exercise to help you hold your ground. As an overall behavior in regards to love what do you evaluate from the below? Then ask yourself how you feel about what you discovered? Then how will you act in love as to what is best for all involved, especially those you account to God for.
( that would be you and your kiddos on issues they have not account over themselves :-)
Love is patient : is he patient with you? does being with him make you want to be patient with him? Are you patient with your kids?
[I] love is kind[/I]: is he kind towards you? does being with him bring out kindness in you towards him? Are you kind to your kids?
It does not envy, is he not envious of you? Are you envious of him? Are you envious of your kids?
it does not boast, does he not boast at you? do you boast at him? Do you boast at your kids?
it is not proud. is he not proud in response towards you? Are you pride filled in response towards him? Are you pride filled when dealing with your kids?
5It is not rude, is he not rude too you? Are you rude to him? Are you rude to your kids?
it is not self-seeking, does he seek to serve you with what is best for you? So you seek to serve him with what is best for him? Do you serve your kids with what is best for them?
[I]it is not easily angered,[/I] is he not quick to anger with you? Are you quick to anger with him? Are you quick to anger with your kids?
it keeps no record of wrongs. does he forgive your actual wrongs/ what he perceives as wrongs? do you forgive him his actual wrongs/ what you perceive as wrongs? Do you hold a record of wrongs over your children?
6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. Is truth what he seeks to rejoice in with you? Soes seeking truth with him bring out our rejoicing? Do you rejoice with truth as it pertains to your children?
7It always protects, does he long to protect you from harm from yourself or others?( of course you would never have to protect yourself from your lover who always wants to protect you, that part is self evident, right? ) Do you long to protect him from himself and others?( *allowing him to face consequences is protecting, to not let him is self-seeking so that you will not be uncomfortable with him having to go through a tough time) So you long to protect your children?
always trusts, does he trust you? Does he nurture your trust for him? Do you nurture your kids to trust you, set an example so that they will understand the importance for you to trust them as they take on more with growth and maturity? always hopes, Does he hope for the best for you? Do you hope for the best for him? Do you hope for you children :-), the best, whatever that will look like?
always perseveres. Does he long to do the hard work so that love perseveres? Does he bring out perseverance in regards to your love for one another? Is your love for you children be one of perseverance?
8Love never fails. His his love never failing because he patterns the above? If your love for him unfailing because he patterns the above? Do you teach your children by the example of behaviors above that " true" love never fails?
Excellent on the phone issue!!!!!!!! But if he gets the phone number I want you to be strong enough in your resolve to deal with that. So the above exercise is meant to help you grasp with your heart and mind the truth of your situation so that you may stand firm and persevere. Actually, I want this love above to always be in the tomorrows of your situations. With your kids, your friends, your family, and a man who wants to build you up and not tear you down. A man you can build up and not fear.
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
love tammy
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Okay, this is the difference with co-dependance and abuse . Because kv is stressed by him to the point of confusion she needs to recognize the abuse. When she recognizes the abuse and manipulation she may be able to then understand what co-dependant behavior is. She is reacting in stress, not co-dependancy.
To the mature here, please, please, stop trying to fix her co-dependancy. She needs help, not account. She doesn't see clearly yet. She is still taking blame and feeling guilty. She isn't considering how to change this right not. She is in it.
Yes, with love, tammy
To the mature here, please, please, stop trying to fix her co-dependancy. She needs help, not account. She doesn't see clearly yet. She is still taking blame and feeling guilty. She isn't considering how to change this right not. She is in it.
Yes, with love, tammy
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Again with the black/white, this/that, all/nothing. IMO, I consider codependency to almost be a prerequisite for abuse. There are many shades of gray. We do better here by sharing our own experience and asking questions than by telling others what to do.
L
L
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Easy does it people.
Unless you are a licensed health care professional kindly remove any advice from your posts. If you have _experience_ in the matters being discussed then share how you, _personally_, removed yourself from a physically abusive husband.
If you do not have that experience, or profesional licensure, then go read this
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ng-abused.html
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
Unless you are a licensed health care professional kindly remove any advice from your posts. If you have _experience_ in the matters being discussed then share how you, _personally_, removed yourself from a physically abusive husband.
If you do not have that experience, or profesional licensure, then go read this
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ng-abused.html
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Great song!!! I had never heard Papa Roach.
Hey I would LOVE to have a pink phone, mine is black and boring!! (given by the company...)
I hope you find solace knowing many people have been there and have reached total peace and sense of self... that is what keeps me going.... this is just NOW.. hang in there friend and let us know how you are doing...
Hey I would LOVE to have a pink phone, mine is black and boring!! (given by the company...)
I hope you find solace knowing many people have been there and have reached total peace and sense of self... that is what keeps me going.... this is just NOW.. hang in there friend and let us know how you are doing...
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
There were a few bands (that I know of) that had a few songs on their albums dedicated to recovery. Papa Roach was one of them. Seether had quite a few, his songs were more what he did to other people when he was using. Breaking Benjamin dedicated an entire album to his recovery. I remember hearing an interview with the group saying they released the album thinking it would be the worst idea ever, that no one would buy or relate to it. But apparently it was their biggest selling album in 20 some years of music.
I had never heard of any of them until Scars came out. Papa Roach has a few that I really like, that leave a good message (for me anyway). One is "Lifeline", it's the newest one out. One line goes "So I put out my hand and I asked for some help. We tore down the walls I built around myself. I was struck by the light and I fell to the ground". They redid that one, somewhat, to play on the adult soft rock/alternative stations (the stations that are usually playing in doctor's offices).
There's also one called "Breakdown" by Seether. They sound a lot like Papa Roach. The chorus of that one goes "break me down if it makes you feel right, and hate me now if it keeps you alright. You can break me down if it takes all your might cause I'm so much more than all your lies." My favorite line in that song is what a waste of time when the world we have is yours. That one is a little more upbeat and fast, more of a rock song. But I love the words.
Here's the link, if you want to listen to it.
YouTube - Seether - "Breakdown" (Official Video)
I love music. My all time favorite song though is That's Why I'm Here by Kenny Chesney. I played it for my A Dad once, years ago when it came out. He loved it too. He used to play guitar and he could sing real good. He learned it and sang it at an open meeting one night. Very few people had heard it before but everyone was crying. The room was huge, a big open room, no carpet or anything, so even the smallest noise echoed through the room. When he sang that song the whole room went quiet. You couldn't hear anything but him singing.
I love music. Helps me with a lot of things. And I work anywhere from an 8 to a 12 hour shift, sometimes 6 days a week and I deal with a variety of personalities through my shift. So being able to jump back in my unit, turn the radio on and hear some kind of song that picks me up (or calms me down) is important. If only I could get my boss to put a cd player in my unit so I can play my burned cd's that have all my needed daily messages in one!!! LOL
I had never heard of any of them until Scars came out. Papa Roach has a few that I really like, that leave a good message (for me anyway). One is "Lifeline", it's the newest one out. One line goes "So I put out my hand and I asked for some help. We tore down the walls I built around myself. I was struck by the light and I fell to the ground". They redid that one, somewhat, to play on the adult soft rock/alternative stations (the stations that are usually playing in doctor's offices).
There's also one called "Breakdown" by Seether. They sound a lot like Papa Roach. The chorus of that one goes "break me down if it makes you feel right, and hate me now if it keeps you alright. You can break me down if it takes all your might cause I'm so much more than all your lies." My favorite line in that song is what a waste of time when the world we have is yours. That one is a little more upbeat and fast, more of a rock song. But I love the words.
Here's the link, if you want to listen to it.
YouTube - Seether - "Breakdown" (Official Video)
I love music. My all time favorite song though is That's Why I'm Here by Kenny Chesney. I played it for my A Dad once, years ago when it came out. He loved it too. He used to play guitar and he could sing real good. He learned it and sang it at an open meeting one night. Very few people had heard it before but everyone was crying. The room was huge, a big open room, no carpet or anything, so even the smallest noise echoed through the room. When he sang that song the whole room went quiet. You couldn't hear anything but him singing.
I love music. Helps me with a lot of things. And I work anywhere from an 8 to a 12 hour shift, sometimes 6 days a week and I deal with a variety of personalities through my shift. So being able to jump back in my unit, turn the radio on and hear some kind of song that picks me up (or calms me down) is important. If only I could get my boss to put a cd player in my unit so I can play my burned cd's that have all my needed daily messages in one!!! LOL
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
If only I could get my boss to put a cd player in my unit so I can play my burned cd's that have all my needed daily messages in one!!!
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Just want to ask please forgive my foolishness on this thread, especially to kv. :-(
TC999 thanks for staying on track."Love covers a multitude of sins." Thank you.:-)
Thanks Mike for protecting everyone.:-}
love tammy
TC999 thanks for staying on track."Love covers a multitude of sins." Thank you.:-)
Thanks Mike for protecting everyone.:-}
love tammy
Last edited by DesertEyes; 07-03-2009 at 08:23 PM. Reason: personal identifying information removed
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hey MeHandle no worries we are all just trying to help each other,
kv, I will check all those songs, never heard from them! can you bring an iPod to work? I do that and it makes all the difference... no music, no life!
This one fits from xabf's point of view:
YouTube - Bjork (Play Dead)
darling stop confusing me
with your wishful thinking
hopeful enbraces
don't you understand?
i have to go through this
i belong to here where
no-one cares and no-one loves
no light no air to live in
a place called hate
the city of fear
i play dead
it stops the hurting
i play dead
and hurting stops
it's sometimes just like sleeping
curling up inside my private tortures
i nestle into pain
hug suffering
caress every ache
i play dead
it stops the hurting
kv, I will check all those songs, never heard from them! can you bring an iPod to work? I do that and it makes all the difference... no music, no life!
This one fits from xabf's point of view:
YouTube - Bjork (Play Dead)
darling stop confusing me
with your wishful thinking
hopeful enbraces
don't you understand?
i have to go through this
i belong to here where
no-one cares and no-one loves
no light no air to live in
a place called hate
the city of fear
i play dead
it stops the hurting
i play dead
and hurting stops
it's sometimes just like sleeping
curling up inside my private tortures
i nestle into pain
hug suffering
caress every ache
i play dead
it stops the hurting
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I totally agree!!
Take it from me-I am in the same place as you and have been here TWO years. My exbf has NOT changed. He breaks promise after promise, tramples on boundary after boundary...always manipulating his way back into my life by telling me what I want to hear...false promises, empty lies pretending he wants a "better life", doesn't want to be "self-destructive anymore" yada yada!
Last night was the last straw (see my post, I think I hate my ex)...he pushed me too far and I'm gone. I changed my cell number. I put a filter on his email so I don't have to hear from him anymore.
It hurts. I know how much it hurts. Because in the last 3 weeks, while he was sober, he made me so happy.
But last night he made it painfully clear, he chooses the bar over me, so now I must choose MYSELF over him.
Hang in there.
Take it from me-I am in the same place as you and have been here TWO years. My exbf has NOT changed. He breaks promise after promise, tramples on boundary after boundary...always manipulating his way back into my life by telling me what I want to hear...false promises, empty lies pretending he wants a "better life", doesn't want to be "self-destructive anymore" yada yada!
Last night was the last straw (see my post, I think I hate my ex)...he pushed me too far and I'm gone. I changed my cell number. I put a filter on his email so I don't have to hear from him anymore.
It hurts. I know how much it hurts. Because in the last 3 weeks, while he was sober, he made me so happy.
But last night he made it painfully clear, he chooses the bar over me, so now I must choose MYSELF over him.
Hang in there.
Originally Posted by GiveLove
If he "really needed it," he would be out getting it.
He's not.
I'm sorry you're still going through this but I love all the progress you've made. It may not seem like it sometimes, but you've really come a long, long way.
This is not about him getting help. This is about him doing whatever he has to do, saying whatever he has to say, to get his comfy relationship back the way he wants it, no matter whether it is good for you or not, no matter whether his tactics hurt you or not.
Did you think you were important in his equation? You're not. He wants you back, and on HIS terms (he doesn't have to change anything - YOU have to change your needs). He's pulling out every trick in the book to get you to obey his needs.
What you've just written is a textbook example of alcoholic quacking. Or, as Laurie would type, QUACKING. And it's working on you today (I'm sorry). So a little anti-quack:
You're right to leave a situation where the bad is outnumbering the good.
You're right to remove your kids from that relationship before (hopefully before) they can learn how to be an adult from him.
You're right to want to be happy.
You're right to expect to be respected in your relationships.
You're right to say, "This is what I need."
You're right to leave a bad relationship like this.
You're DEAD right to do the things you're doing: going no-contact, setting and protecting boundaries, etc.
One adjustment that I guarantee will help you:
You don't have to listen to his messages. You can delete them without listening.
It is hard. To me, it felt a little like getting poked with a vaccine needle -- a little pain up-front (resisting listening) to ensure freedom from pain later.
Listening to them is giving power to his b.s., making you feel like you're superwoman who ought to be coming to his rescue, making you feel like what you want is wrong, undermining the progress you've worked so hard for.
Stop listening. There is nothing valuable coming out of his mouth. Just threats, put-downs, self-pity, selfish whining, and manipulation, carefully orchestrated to get what he wants. And I don't know about you, but that's not exactly my idea of an attractive man.
Just my two cents'. I hope you continue on this road to self-preservation, for you and your kids. BTW, if you want someone to help out, I know a lot of great guys who AREN'T drunks who could use a good, able partner in life. They're out there waiting for you, whenever your heart's ready to let mister "you better not date anybody else" go his own way.
He's not.
I'm sorry you're still going through this but I love all the progress you've made. It may not seem like it sometimes, but you've really come a long, long way.
This is not about him getting help. This is about him doing whatever he has to do, saying whatever he has to say, to get his comfy relationship back the way he wants it, no matter whether it is good for you or not, no matter whether his tactics hurt you or not.
Did you think you were important in his equation? You're not. He wants you back, and on HIS terms (he doesn't have to change anything - YOU have to change your needs). He's pulling out every trick in the book to get you to obey his needs.
What you've just written is a textbook example of alcoholic quacking. Or, as Laurie would type, QUACKING. And it's working on you today (I'm sorry). So a little anti-quack:
You're right to leave a situation where the bad is outnumbering the good.
You're right to remove your kids from that relationship before (hopefully before) they can learn how to be an adult from him.
You're right to want to be happy.
You're right to expect to be respected in your relationships.
You're right to say, "This is what I need."
You're right to leave a bad relationship like this.
You're DEAD right to do the things you're doing: going no-contact, setting and protecting boundaries, etc.
One adjustment that I guarantee will help you:
You don't have to listen to his messages. You can delete them without listening.
It is hard. To me, it felt a little like getting poked with a vaccine needle -- a little pain up-front (resisting listening) to ensure freedom from pain later.
Listening to them is giving power to his b.s., making you feel like you're superwoman who ought to be coming to his rescue, making you feel like what you want is wrong, undermining the progress you've worked so hard for.
Stop listening. There is nothing valuable coming out of his mouth. Just threats, put-downs, self-pity, selfish whining, and manipulation, carefully orchestrated to get what he wants. And I don't know about you, but that's not exactly my idea of an attractive man.
Just my two cents'. I hope you continue on this road to self-preservation, for you and your kids. BTW, if you want someone to help out, I know a lot of great guys who AREN'T drunks who could use a good, able partner in life. They're out there waiting for you, whenever your heart's ready to let mister "you better not date anybody else" go his own way.
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
My new cell is working. And I love it. I went with a friend and her kids to the fireworks tonight. I brought only my new cell. By 9 this morning I sent a text to everyone saying that I had a new number and to please start using it. So I knew I wouldn't need the old cell tonight. Anyone who needed to get ahold of me could. When I got home I had 38 missed phone calls and 14 new voice messages.
I did listen to them. He called asking for a favor, he needed a ride home. He went to his sisters for the day (and in the opinion of those who are closest to her, she is an A too). He's got two other sisters. But she and him have always been very close. Like twins close. I'm sure it's because they enable and accept each other. No doubt in my mind. Anyway. She picked him up and apparently, to no surprise, after 8 hours was too drunk to take him home (he actually said he wasn't comfortable riding with her). His favor was wanting a ride.
I wasn't sure how to handle it. If he had drove himself to her house but realized he was too drunk to drive home I would have said no, I will not take you home. He got himself into the "mess" and he could get himself out. A part of me says it's the same thing. He's often told me she was too drunk to drive. But he never once said he wasn't comfortable riding with her.
I went ahead and gave him a ride home though. We didn't say a word all the way there. I pulled in the driveway and he said if he knew what to say to make it all better he would. I smiled and said I know. I said I'd come get the rest of my stuff as soon as I could. He asked me to leave something. Said that if I take everything than he knows I have no reason to come back. He wants me to leave something so he knows there's a chance, he can hope that we'll be together again.
I wanted to cry. I was sad. I was angry. I was hurt. I was disappointed. He told me that he loved me. He said that all he ever wanted to do was protect me from all the men who have hurt me in the past and right now he wished he could kick his own ass for hurting me. He said he'd give anything to take my hurt away.
I said I know......but you've got to take your hurt away first.
He asked if there was any hope for us. If we'd ever be together.
I said I don't know.
He asked if I'd come by tomorrow so we could talk. We can fix everything if we just sit down and I could see by his words and actions how much I really mean to him and how much he loves me.
I said I know.....but I can't. I told him to take tomorrow to look in the mirror and take the first step at fixing his own hurt. I looked him in the eye and told him he can't fix mine.
He asked if it was over. I said yeah, I think it is.
And he walked away.
That was two hours ago. My phone has not rang once. I have not gotten an email.
I'm not sure how I feel. A part of me thinks I shouldn't have given him that ride to begin with. Yet another part of me is glad I did because I was able to hold my ground face to face with him; whereas before it was always on the phone or email. I didn't buy into his "QUACKING" as it's put so nicely on here. I was okay. I had no fear. No worry. No doubt. I felt good. And I don't think I let on to him how much it was tearing me apart. I stood my ground. For the first time, even if just for an instant, I won. I didn't cave in.
Yet, I still don't feel so proud of myself.
I did listen to them. He called asking for a favor, he needed a ride home. He went to his sisters for the day (and in the opinion of those who are closest to her, she is an A too). He's got two other sisters. But she and him have always been very close. Like twins close. I'm sure it's because they enable and accept each other. No doubt in my mind. Anyway. She picked him up and apparently, to no surprise, after 8 hours was too drunk to take him home (he actually said he wasn't comfortable riding with her). His favor was wanting a ride.
I wasn't sure how to handle it. If he had drove himself to her house but realized he was too drunk to drive home I would have said no, I will not take you home. He got himself into the "mess" and he could get himself out. A part of me says it's the same thing. He's often told me she was too drunk to drive. But he never once said he wasn't comfortable riding with her.
I went ahead and gave him a ride home though. We didn't say a word all the way there. I pulled in the driveway and he said if he knew what to say to make it all better he would. I smiled and said I know. I said I'd come get the rest of my stuff as soon as I could. He asked me to leave something. Said that if I take everything than he knows I have no reason to come back. He wants me to leave something so he knows there's a chance, he can hope that we'll be together again.
I wanted to cry. I was sad. I was angry. I was hurt. I was disappointed. He told me that he loved me. He said that all he ever wanted to do was protect me from all the men who have hurt me in the past and right now he wished he could kick his own ass for hurting me. He said he'd give anything to take my hurt away.
I said I know......but you've got to take your hurt away first.
He asked if there was any hope for us. If we'd ever be together.
I said I don't know.
He asked if I'd come by tomorrow so we could talk. We can fix everything if we just sit down and I could see by his words and actions how much I really mean to him and how much he loves me.
I said I know.....but I can't. I told him to take tomorrow to look in the mirror and take the first step at fixing his own hurt. I looked him in the eye and told him he can't fix mine.
He asked if it was over. I said yeah, I think it is.
And he walked away.
That was two hours ago. My phone has not rang once. I have not gotten an email.
I'm not sure how I feel. A part of me thinks I shouldn't have given him that ride to begin with. Yet another part of me is glad I did because I was able to hold my ground face to face with him; whereas before it was always on the phone or email. I didn't buy into his "QUACKING" as it's put so nicely on here. I was okay. I had no fear. No worry. No doubt. I felt good. And I don't think I let on to him how much it was tearing me apart. I stood my ground. For the first time, even if just for an instant, I won. I didn't cave in.
Yet, I still don't feel so proud of myself.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
You tested yourself and found yourself to be stronger than you thought. You are awesome. 
It hurts. It always hurts. But you know now that you can do it. Keep up the good work - it will get better. :ghug3
It hurts. It always hurts. But you know now that you can do it. Keep up the good work - it will get better. :ghug3
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
