Alcoholic behavior even when not drinking?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
Alcoholic behavior even when not drinking?
I think the reason I am really struggling with this affection thing is because he hasn't accepted the fact that he has a problem and wants to get help.
He hasn't had a drink for 7 days now, but there is still that twinge of behavior that I get from him. I can still see the manipulation and he wants to "pretend" that everything is ok. I just can't do that. Plus we're heading into a holiday weekend where he will have 3 days off....I really don't think he's going to go 3 days at home without drinking. I guess I am just waiting for it to hit.
I'm also really struggling with whether I even want to be in this relationship anymore. It is just so hard and my energy is zapped. I mean relationships are hard anyway, but when you have someone you can't even communicate with and plays games all the time - it's even harder.
I'm guess I'm not really asking anything, I'm just trying to clear my head. I have moments of clarity, but then all of sudden it clouds up again and I have a hard time figuring out what I am doing. I ordered some books from the Alanon website, but I think I really need something now. I may stop by a bookstore tomorrow to see what I can find.
Thanks for listening to me blab :lumpy
Kitkat
He hasn't had a drink for 7 days now, but there is still that twinge of behavior that I get from him. I can still see the manipulation and he wants to "pretend" that everything is ok. I just can't do that. Plus we're heading into a holiday weekend where he will have 3 days off....I really don't think he's going to go 3 days at home without drinking. I guess I am just waiting for it to hit.
I'm also really struggling with whether I even want to be in this relationship anymore. It is just so hard and my energy is zapped. I mean relationships are hard anyway, but when you have someone you can't even communicate with and plays games all the time - it's even harder.
I'm guess I'm not really asking anything, I'm just trying to clear my head. I have moments of clarity, but then all of sudden it clouds up again and I have a hard time figuring out what I am doing. I ordered some books from the Alanon website, but I think I really need something now. I may stop by a bookstore tomorrow to see what I can find.
Thanks for listening to me blab :lumpy
Kitkat
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
kitkat
He really hasn't been off the booze long enough for any "new behaviours" to begin. and because he isn't getting help with this, you very well may be right about how long it will last.
Recovery is much more than just not picking up. It is about learning new healthy behaviours and addressing issues that are deep lying and at the basis of the anger and bad behaviour.
Just keep working your program and look after you. If he improves - bonus. If he doesn't - you will be balanced and able to make decisions with more clarity.
And know that we are here for you any time you want to vent. We care.
Hugs
Ann
He really hasn't been off the booze long enough for any "new behaviours" to begin. and because he isn't getting help with this, you very well may be right about how long it will last.
Recovery is much more than just not picking up. It is about learning new healthy behaviours and addressing issues that are deep lying and at the basis of the anger and bad behaviour.
Just keep working your program and look after you. If he improves - bonus. If he doesn't - you will be balanced and able to make decisions with more clarity.
And know that we are here for you any time you want to vent. We care.
Hugs
Ann
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi Kitkat,
For me, I had to learn to communicate to my husband exactly how I felt about his drinking and drug use, because I would often just go around giving him "looks" or rolling my eyes, or making nasty comments to him. I figured that he should not only KNOW that he is an addict, but that his behavior was upsetting me... I guess I also thought that if I made it obvious enough, he would think "Oh, she's really upset with me... I must be doing something wrong. I guess I should quit drinking." Ya right...
And I remember getting to point where you are. I was so tired of living with him and the booze and the behavior; I wondered if we should just call it quits. But I kept working on myself and tried not to make hasty decisions. One thing I made sure to do however, was to begin to make BOUNDARIES: 1. No drinking around the children (for their safety) 2. No bringing booze / drugs home (I had to create a space where I was safe and able to maintain the peace and order of things) 3. No coming home when drunk / high (again - to maintain safety, peace and order in the house). Eventually, I was not living in the insanity of his behaviors. Our kids were safe, and I was happy working on myself and MY recovery.
Have you given any thought to what YOU need? Made any boundaries for yourself?
Check out the stickies on boundaries (or ask Ann
) - it really helps.
Take care
Meg
For me, I had to learn to communicate to my husband exactly how I felt about his drinking and drug use, because I would often just go around giving him "looks" or rolling my eyes, or making nasty comments to him. I figured that he should not only KNOW that he is an addict, but that his behavior was upsetting me... I guess I also thought that if I made it obvious enough, he would think "Oh, she's really upset with me... I must be doing something wrong. I guess I should quit drinking." Ya right...
And I remember getting to point where you are. I was so tired of living with him and the booze and the behavior; I wondered if we should just call it quits. But I kept working on myself and tried not to make hasty decisions. One thing I made sure to do however, was to begin to make BOUNDARIES: 1. No drinking around the children (for their safety) 2. No bringing booze / drugs home (I had to create a space where I was safe and able to maintain the peace and order of things) 3. No coming home when drunk / high (again - to maintain safety, peace and order in the house). Eventually, I was not living in the insanity of his behaviors. Our kids were safe, and I was happy working on myself and MY recovery.
Have you given any thought to what YOU need? Made any boundaries for yourself?
Check out the stickies on boundaries (or ask Ann
) - it really helps.Take care
Meg
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 45
Hi Kit,
I feel your pain. I have asked my AH to seek help, but he ignores me, I believe he wants to change deep, deep down but is not able to take that first step. He has been an A for 25 years straight.
I also dread the weekend, he has also been beer free for 7 days, though he has been sober, I can feel the tension in the air, like he is about to burst. He is on edge and shouts at us for the pettiest things. I have managed to keep my cool, but am afraid I am going to lose it again, as soon he starts back up again.
This morning I woke up in a good mood, now it's noon and feel very depressed, I feel like happiness is not for me, it's just not in the cards. I need to accept this?
Considering going back on Zoloft, Lord please help!! I'm tired of this whole business of living with a AH.
Take Care, Cindy
I feel your pain. I have asked my AH to seek help, but he ignores me, I believe he wants to change deep, deep down but is not able to take that first step. He has been an A for 25 years straight.
I also dread the weekend, he has also been beer free for 7 days, though he has been sober, I can feel the tension in the air, like he is about to burst. He is on edge and shouts at us for the pettiest things. I have managed to keep my cool, but am afraid I am going to lose it again, as soon he starts back up again.
This morning I woke up in a good mood, now it's noon and feel very depressed, I feel like happiness is not for me, it's just not in the cards. I need to accept this?
Considering going back on Zoloft, Lord please help!! I'm tired of this whole business of living with a AH.
Take Care, Cindy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
You guys are right! I went back and read the post on boundaries. I need to start setting these. I don't know if I'm at the point of telling him to leave the house, but I could tell him that he can only drink the garage - where he is away from me and that I will sleep in our guest room, because I don't need to be around him.
I'm going to try to put my thoughts down on paper and talk with him this weekend. We'll see how it goes. I'll let you guys know!
Thanks!
Kitkat
I'm going to try to put my thoughts down on paper and talk with him this weekend. We'll see how it goes. I'll let you guys know!
Thanks!
Kitkat
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
Hi Cindy!
Sounds like we're in the same boat. Let's check back in on Tuesday and see how each other did :-).
It's really hard when they don't think they need the help, but we've just got to keep working out program. That's why I'm going to get some books this weekend so that I can have the information at hand to help me keep my serenity.
Sounds like we're in the same boat. Let's check back in on Tuesday and see how each other did :-).
It's really hard when they don't think they need the help, but we've just got to keep working out program. That's why I'm going to get some books this weekend so that I can have the information at hand to help me keep my serenity.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 45
Ok Kit,
I will follow your lead and plan on setting these boundaries as suggested my meg.
1. If he drinks, I will kindly inform him that he is to sleep in the horse trailer ( has done this many times before ).
2. If he goes out with drinking buddies, don't bother coming home.
3. Plan something fun with kids, Peter Piper Pizza...
I've got a plan and I'm sticking to it!!!
See ya Tues. Cindy
I will follow your lead and plan on setting these boundaries as suggested my meg.
1. If he drinks, I will kindly inform him that he is to sleep in the horse trailer ( has done this many times before ).
2. If he goes out with drinking buddies, don't bother coming home.
3. Plan something fun with kids, Peter Piper Pizza...
I've got a plan and I'm sticking to it!!!
See ya Tues. Cindy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 88
Sounds like a plan!! My kids and I have church functions for most of the weekend - so we are definitely going to have some fun. We're also buying the 2nd Lord of the Rings movie and plan on doing a marathon. He is NOT going to ruin our fun no matter what he plans on doing.
Still Standing
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here @ SR.
Posts: 3,296
Wow Kit & Cindy!!!!!
It sounds like you two have really got a good plan going &working as a team will make it more fun. It seems to me, with one on one support & checking in with each other's progress, that it will really work for both of you!!!! My A is my son & he just moved out a couple of weeks ago, but don't know how long it will last. Hopefully it will last a long time. Wow Meg, you are a real idea packing motivater!!!!!! Good luck to you all.
It sounds like you two have really got a good plan going &working as a team will make it more fun. It seems to me, with one on one support & checking in with each other's progress, that it will really work for both of you!!!! My A is my son & he just moved out a couple of weeks ago, but don't know how long it will last. Hopefully it will last a long time. Wow Meg, you are a real idea packing motivater!!!!!! Good luck to you all.
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
awwwww 
thanks Nina,
But I have only learned these things thru experience and with the expert guidance of those on these boards (and my sponser) that have gone before me... hmmm, guess thats why this program works.
BTW... This is kind of a hard thing to understand (it was for me), but make sure that the boundaries you are wanting to make are for YOU. Often we take them as an opportunity to punish our A's, or treat them like children by giving them a set of rules to follow.
An easy way to determine a healthy Boundary is to try this:
Write down a list of what you cherish in your life, what is important to your health (physical and mental), what you NEED to do to "work your program", what keeps you safe... And then write down whatever it is that interferes with these things. You can begin to create your boundaries from here; Boundaries are made in order to help you maintain your health and serenity.
If you find that the "boundaries" are in place in order to cause guilt and shame to your A (or anyone else), or to force them to change their ways, then you need to start anew.
Hope this helps - it took a long time for me to "get it"
Take care
Meg
thanks Nina,But I have only learned these things thru experience and with the expert guidance of those on these boards (and my sponser) that have gone before me... hmmm, guess thats why this program works.
BTW... This is kind of a hard thing to understand (it was for me), but make sure that the boundaries you are wanting to make are for YOU. Often we take them as an opportunity to punish our A's, or treat them like children by giving them a set of rules to follow.
An easy way to determine a healthy Boundary is to try this:
Write down a list of what you cherish in your life, what is important to your health (physical and mental), what you NEED to do to "work your program", what keeps you safe... And then write down whatever it is that interferes with these things. You can begin to create your boundaries from here; Boundaries are made in order to help you maintain your health and serenity.
If you find that the "boundaries" are in place in order to cause guilt and shame to your A (or anyone else), or to force them to change their ways, then you need to start anew.
Hope this helps - it took a long time for me to "get it"
Take care
Meg
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 129
((Kitkat))
I’ve learned that with my H, who is now in recovery (almost to his 4 mth mark) that I have to state things very clearly, very short and precise and without a lot of emotion, for him to “get it.”
Ann is right on with what she said about recovery being so much more than just not picking up. I don’t think a lot of addicts really get that part of it.
I don’t think a lot of us codependent types really get that part of it either. Our recovery is a lot more than just learning to accept we are powerless over their addiction, it is a life changing process, one that involves a lot of hard work and willingness to look within ourselves. It is REALLY hard for me to say to anyone “this is how I would like to be treated….” And then stick to it.
Ditto to what Ann said about working your program and letting the rest go, too. Last time my H went through treatment and tried to stay clean I spent all of my time and energy worrying about when the relapse was going to hit. This time I do not think about it, and when I find myself starting to, I say “that’s his stuff and not my business.” And it works!
Whether or not he stays sober does not matter to my recovery. It would be a wonderful blessing if he does, but it’s not something I can control so there is no need for me to stress about it. If he doesn’t, then like Ann mentioned, by me working my recovery, I would be balanced enough to make a sound decision.
As for not knowing if you want to stay in this relationship or not, I can relate to that as well. I too didn’t know if I wanted to stay, I thought maybe too much damage had been done, too much trust lost, etc. What I realized is that for today I still love him and for today I still want to be his wife, and that’s how I handle my fears about that, ODAT.
Take care of you,
I’ve learned that with my H, who is now in recovery (almost to his 4 mth mark) that I have to state things very clearly, very short and precise and without a lot of emotion, for him to “get it.”
Ann is right on with what she said about recovery being so much more than just not picking up. I don’t think a lot of addicts really get that part of it.
I don’t think a lot of us codependent types really get that part of it either. Our recovery is a lot more than just learning to accept we are powerless over their addiction, it is a life changing process, one that involves a lot of hard work and willingness to look within ourselves. It is REALLY hard for me to say to anyone “this is how I would like to be treated….” And then stick to it.
Ditto to what Ann said about working your program and letting the rest go, too. Last time my H went through treatment and tried to stay clean I spent all of my time and energy worrying about when the relapse was going to hit. This time I do not think about it, and when I find myself starting to, I say “that’s his stuff and not my business.” And it works!
Whether or not he stays sober does not matter to my recovery. It would be a wonderful blessing if he does, but it’s not something I can control so there is no need for me to stress about it. If he doesn’t, then like Ann mentioned, by me working my recovery, I would be balanced enough to make a sound decision.
As for not knowing if you want to stay in this relationship or not, I can relate to that as well. I too didn’t know if I wanted to stay, I thought maybe too much damage had been done, too much trust lost, etc. What I realized is that for today I still love him and for today I still want to be his wife, and that’s how I handle my fears about that, ODAT.
Take care of you,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 45
Hi Meg,
I thanks for expaining the healthy boundary issue. How do you deal with all the pent up anger? I feel physically and mentally worn down to the bone. I know that my anger has been dictating my actions... and need to break this cycle.
Is there a book you can suggest? I'm not sure I'm ready for meetings.
Thanks, Cindy
I thanks for expaining the healthy boundary issue. How do you deal with all the pent up anger? I feel physically and mentally worn down to the bone. I know that my anger has been dictating my actions... and need to break this cycle.
Is there a book you can suggest? I'm not sure I'm ready for meetings.
Thanks, Cindy
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi CATLVR,
Yup, there are some great books out there - check out the SR site store for some ideas.
I am not sure of one that relates specifically to the issue of setting healthy BOUNDARIES... I am sure it exists tho.
One book that is a must read for all us "codies" is "Codependant No More" by Melody Beattie.
As far as the anger goes...
This is actually a blessing in disguise. It means that you are at a turning point / a crossroads.
It was at this time, when I was so frustrated and tired and ANGRY that I made some of the healthiest decisions and began my recovery. Give yourself some time to FEEl angry etc. and then let it go... you don't have to blame and hold others responsible for how you feel.
When there is a moment of peace... get yourself into some great books and start making the most important times YOUR time. And when you are ready, get to a meeting... it really truly helps.
Take care
Meg
Yup, there are some great books out there - check out the SR site store for some ideas.
I am not sure of one that relates specifically to the issue of setting healthy BOUNDARIES... I am sure it exists tho.
One book that is a must read for all us "codies" is "Codependant No More" by Melody Beattie.
As far as the anger goes...
This is actually a blessing in disguise. It means that you are at a turning point / a crossroads.
It was at this time, when I was so frustrated and tired and ANGRY that I made some of the healthiest decisions and began my recovery. Give yourself some time to FEEl angry etc. and then let it go... you don't have to blame and hold others responsible for how you feel.
When there is a moment of peace... get yourself into some great books and start making the most important times YOUR time. And when you are ready, get to a meeting... it really truly helps.
Take care
Meg
Still Standing
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here @ SR.
Posts: 3,296
Hey Cindy,
The anger & how you deal with it, is one of the very important reasons that you need to go to the AL-ANON meetings. Once you learn to accept this as a disease; that will help you to not feel as angry because you will come to realize that not only are you powerless over alcohol & the alcoholic, but the alcoholic is also very powerless over alcohol. You will begin to not be so hard on him because you will have more compassion for the horrible plight he is in. You will realize more & more that it doesn't have anything to do with you at all. It's not personal towards you. You really do need Al-Anon meetings & to study the literature that they have there, more than you can ever know. You need the face to face support of people who are having to deal with the same things that you are. Only they can really understand what you are going through. It will make a very big difference in your life. The more you go & listen & share, the more you learn how to cope with this problem & to regain your happiness. Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
I'm sending you ************{HUGS & HOPE}}}}}}}}
The anger & how you deal with it, is one of the very important reasons that you need to go to the AL-ANON meetings. Once you learn to accept this as a disease; that will help you to not feel as angry because you will come to realize that not only are you powerless over alcohol & the alcoholic, but the alcoholic is also very powerless over alcohol. You will begin to not be so hard on him because you will have more compassion for the horrible plight he is in. You will realize more & more that it doesn't have anything to do with you at all. It's not personal towards you. You really do need Al-Anon meetings & to study the literature that they have there, more than you can ever know. You need the face to face support of people who are having to deal with the same things that you are. Only they can really understand what you are going through. It will make a very big difference in your life. The more you go & listen & share, the more you learn how to cope with this problem & to regain your happiness. Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
I'm sending you ************{HUGS & HOPE}}}}}}}}
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester Cty, New York
Posts: 7
Hi! Nice to see some Tx. postings - that's where I began my recovery!!!!!
Lot's of great stuff noted in the above exchanges. Early recovery is tough for everybody as I recall. It wasn't my job to take anyone else's inventory nor was it their job to take mine. That being said taking care of myself was the priority. Having a plan - Plan A & Plan B- is good program. I find it hard to balance this as "aren't I supposed to be in a relationship?" but when I've taken care of myself all else usually works out.
Drinking is a drag. But absence of drinking isn't a total solutuion. Recovery is a needed component in my experience. Sobriety isn't being without alcohol - it is a spiritual, emotional & physical disease - recovery addresses this.
Good luck with the weekend. I now work every other weekend and it helps. Again, the problems don't go away but it is a change that helps handle them.
Best to you!
Lot's of great stuff noted in the above exchanges. Early recovery is tough for everybody as I recall. It wasn't my job to take anyone else's inventory nor was it their job to take mine. That being said taking care of myself was the priority. Having a plan - Plan A & Plan B- is good program. I find it hard to balance this as "aren't I supposed to be in a relationship?" but when I've taken care of myself all else usually works out.
Drinking is a drag. But absence of drinking isn't a total solutuion. Recovery is a needed component in my experience. Sobriety isn't being without alcohol - it is a spiritual, emotional & physical disease - recovery addresses this.
Good luck with the weekend. I now work every other weekend and it helps. Again, the problems don't go away but it is a change that helps handle them.
Best to you!
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 75
Hi,
Yes, I believe there is alcoholic behavior to be seen when an A is not drinking.
Let me give you an analogy: I work in a hospital eating disorders program...
At first, I used to see bulimia severity as how much a person with bulimia binged and purged per week (standard clinical criteria). But, it is what they are doing (or not doing) in the MEANTIME that sets them up to binge and purge again. With bulimia, patients often try to starve between binges or "diet". That sets them up to binge again. Similarly, in alcoholism, the behavior and actions taken while one is NOT drinking contribute in a positive or negative way to whether one relapses. For example, I've been told if one is "working a program" that is something that takes one away from relapsing while the HALT acronym (hungry, angry lonely, tired) sets up a person to drink again. It is a bit different with bulimia than for alcoholism, in that one NEEDS food in the right amounts, but the right amount of alcohol for an alcoholic is none.
I'm new here too so I am just learning too.
And, yes, it is neat to see posts from people in Texas because I just came back from Houston and Dallad two weeks ago and I love it there! Actually, going to Texas is why I am here on this board now...
Yes, I believe there is alcoholic behavior to be seen when an A is not drinking.
Let me give you an analogy: I work in a hospital eating disorders program...
At first, I used to see bulimia severity as how much a person with bulimia binged and purged per week (standard clinical criteria). But, it is what they are doing (or not doing) in the MEANTIME that sets them up to binge and purge again. With bulimia, patients often try to starve between binges or "diet". That sets them up to binge again. Similarly, in alcoholism, the behavior and actions taken while one is NOT drinking contribute in a positive or negative way to whether one relapses. For example, I've been told if one is "working a program" that is something that takes one away from relapsing while the HALT acronym (hungry, angry lonely, tired) sets up a person to drink again. It is a bit different with bulimia than for alcoholism, in that one NEEDS food in the right amounts, but the right amount of alcohol for an alcoholic is none.
I'm new here too so I am just learning too.
And, yes, it is neat to see posts from people in Texas because I just came back from Houston and Dallad two weeks ago and I love it there! Actually, going to Texas is why I am here on this board now...
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