Ago

What you write actually supports my assertion rather then detracts from it

Say I fell in love with Kimmeh, you are my sunshine, my alpha and omega, but you develop a taste for BonBons and watching the Oprah channel 24/7 and over the course of time gained a pound or two....

I approach you and say, "Honey <sound of idiotic moronic explanation because foot is lodged so far in mouth it's hard to understand what is being said anyway> but the long and short is I would like you to lose weight, and your reply is to leave in order to "feel safe"

How does that response make it safe for me to have real communication with you.

It brings to mind the term "walking on eggshells" which is what I would have to if I were dating you about your weight issue
There is nothing "complicated" about it.

This is exactly why I would be afraid to tell you, I'm not resentful, I want my wife to lose weight.

How is that fair? How would I be able to frame my feelings about your weight gain and it's effects on my libido without you leaving me? Does that promote communication in the relationship?

The OP's AH original assertion was....done unskillfully at best, hideously manipulative at worst, but what I was trying to say is how can a male say your weight gain affects me adversely and impacts our sex life NOT "he does not find me attractive" these are two entirely separate statements


I do not find anything you say "unreasonable" I think it's important you do what's best for you in order to feel safe in a relationship, comparing weight gain and alcoholism was a stretch at best, not very analogous at worst, alcoholism is much more devastating emotionally and more damaging to those around them, I do understand that, there is just no other comparable analogy I could think of.

Look:

I was in that man's shoes at one point in time, and in my own way mishandled it as badly as he did.

I did it exactly in the way you and I are discussing.

For me in the same situation, I didn't say anything, I didn't say a word, it's now been years since we have broken up and I still never told her the truth why I withdrew and were I to do it again, I would handle it differently.

Me not being honest and being afraid to hurt her feelings so not saying anything at all was in my opinion more damaging to everyone concerned.

There is no resentment in conjunction with my feelings about her weight gain, there is only sadness for how poorly I handled it.....by not saying a word

Me not communicating my discomfort effectively lead in time directly and indirectly to the dissolution of a wonderful relationship, it set in motion trains of events that were incredibly hurtful and damaging to all involved and it took years to do so.

Ago

Aaaaahhh the "No YOU" defense

Highly effective when used against Andrew as he is easily distracted by shiny objects and baubles

Then he eventually begins to lose his temper, thus "proving" the deflection and all hope for communication is lost.

More work is needed here for me to learn how to handle that effectively, I always "bite" on the deflection, that is on me.

GiveLove

Agreed.

A healthy partnership is one in which you CAN address things like weight, not taking care of one's self, etc., but from the dual perspectives of:

Partner 1: I don't want to look/feel/hurt like this...it's not what I want for myself
Partner 2: I will help you do whatever you want to do for yourself, and it will end up being good for both of us

(With a clinical addiction, of course, all bets are off. You can "help people do whatever" until the cows come home and it will drain you dry. Until a doctor tells you you're morbidly obese and you refuse to follow his orders, putting on a few pounds can never be put on the same plane with alcoholism imho)

Mr. GL would like to learn to not get so emotionally triggered when people are in his face. I would like to learn to fit exercise into every day so I don't die at 50. Neither of us are reacting or threatening the other "fix that or else"...they are just things we want for US. And the other is willing to help (remembering GiveLove's favorite mantra: "ask for what you need, and offer what you can")

Missus, sounds like there's SO much more going on here than just discussions on weight. It sounds like such an unhappy, unhealthy thing. Wishing you the chance at a real partnership where these kinds of discussions are just a bad, faraway memory.

Hugs to our friend :ghug3

TakingCharge999

Thanks GL and anvilhead for your examples of how healthy relations look like.

With this Starter Nice Guy it has been the same:

He wants to be stronger, he feels he is too thin... and I want to lose weight, also to feel better with exercise, sleep smoothly and in general have a motivation to eat better...have a healthier lifestyle...

We talk about that stuff very naturally, matter-of-fact (long way from xabf mocking, etc) then we joke that anyway, we are the best looking couple in town and look up to David and Victoria Beckham.. LOL

Then on with the day...

I guess what I've learned is that.. you can't go from nothing to Love... there HAS to be friendship in the middle, and a good friendship is about RESPECT.. the building blocks need to be strong.

Good luck deciding what is best for you!!

Impurrfect

((Missus)) - he sounds a lot like one of my XABF's (yeah, I had 3..slow learner). We had the physical relationship, but he told me he wouldn't marry me until I got down to a certain weight?! I had the good sense to reply "yeah, and if I did get to that weight, you'd find something else wrong with me, to prevent you from marrying me". Unfortunately, I still stayed with him for years after that.

For me, it would have to come down to "am I getting what I want from this relationship, right now?" Life's too darned short to "settle" for less than what/who we deserve.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

covington

So, yes, I agree there is always that initial reaction. I got three years worth of "You are disgusting and fat, and you embarass me when you go out in public" from my mother. Eeew, who wants mean people around? Thank God there are other sorts of people in the universe and I bumped into many of them, otherwise I'd have always thought that's how friends and family were supposed to treat each other.


Absolutely. I can spend years hating myself in the company of someone who is mean to me and cruel to me. I can spend years taking disrespectful treatment lying down. I would do that and as a result I would feel absolutely horrible, horrible, horrible, and ashamed. And when the time came for me to spread my wings I would get away from that person and I would magically feel better and like myself more in the company of my true friends.

That's what I would do. And it'd ache a lot, it'd hurt a lot, until I got out of the painful situation.


Remember you must die whether you sit about moping all day long or whether on feast days you stretch out in a green field, happy with a bottle of Falernian from your innermost cellar. ~Horace

How did it get so late so soon?
It's night before it's afternoon.
December is here before it's June.
My goodness how the time has flewn.
How did it get so late so soon?
~Dr. Seuss

Kimmieh

I was referring to a situation like the Missus is describing: after years of relationship I am being told that he is not attracted to me physically, that it was hard to not tell, blahblahblah. I, personally, could not deal with that.

My boyfriend met me when I was much thinner and we have talked about it. He tells me that he is worried about my health and that's fine and sweet! He supports my healthy behavior and with that support, BUT also with the knowledge that he wouldn't leave me even if I gained more, I can be in a place where I feel comfortable enough to be good to myself.

The difference is that he takes the time to understand why I gained the weight instead of suggesting that I have developed a liking for BonBons and watch Oprah all day.

It is possible to address the issue and it is possible to be gentle and supportive about it. I reject your argument that the poor poor men cannot address the issue with women. "Lose weight, I am not attracted to you anymore" is not the way to do it because the fact that you are not attracted to me anymore is probably less serious than the underlying reason of my weight gain. So instead of demanding weight loss, why not address why the person has gained the weight in the first place?

Each of us deals with this differently and I wanted to share what I would do and why.

GiveLove

This is a good conversation and though we could very easily be at each other's throats about such a touchy issue, I'm impressed with the intelligent conversation that's taking place. Just wanted to toss that in --

And this too: My weight is my choice. My body, my choice, my responsibility. There are plenty of men who would never find me physically attractive because, instead of being "b**bs on a stick" which is often the fashion, I am an athletic 5'7" and 145. I know rail-thin supermodel types who can barely lift a jug of milk. I also know women who are closer to 200 pounds but who can run rings around me at the track and can kick my beehind in the weight room.

It is all in the beauty yardstick. I didn't always, but nowadays I choose to follow my own yardstick, not someone else's. I choose to do the (sometimes miserable) work of staying healthy because I don't want to die young like the rest of the women in my family, not because I want men to drop their beer glasses when I go out.

• If my partner wants to offer his help to get a bit sleeker, I'm delighted. I'll look for the useful kernel of truth in there, and see if I want to make a change (see 'my choice' above )
• If my partner wants to point out that (by his yardstick) I'm unacceptably heavy and therefore unattractive to him at the moment I'll consider carefully whether I want to stay in a relationship where our yardsticks are so different. I no longer want to set myself up for pain.
• If my partner suggests that it's "lose weight or you're out of luck," we'd be done. Honestly...that kind of bullying is NEVER okay, and is usually symptomatic of other bad habits on that side of the fence.

My body, my choice, my responsibility, my business. If my weight affects someone else's life adversely, they are free to leave.

Alcohol? Their body, their choice, their responsibility, their business. If their alcoholism affects my life adversely, I am free to leave.

Just sharing that perspective too.

freya

OK -- I'm going to start with some full and fair disclosure here, which I think is important given the topic. I am "too fat" by the standards of the culture in which I live. I come from long lines of big German girls on both my mom's and dad's side of my family. I exercise daily. I am healthy -- so healthy, in fact, that a few years ago I forbade my doctor to weigh me again until such time as she could find something wrong with my health that might be "caused or contributed to" by my weight. That hasn't happened yet....and I'm 50 today! I did my PhD minor field work in Feminist Criticism and Women's Studies. One of my most favorite books ever is Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth. I had my second child at home with a lay mid-wife. I trust my body. I love my body.....I love its power, it's ability to nurture, and it's capacity for pleasure. I like the way it looks, I like the way it feels, and I like the way it works. I love being a woman; I love being a mother, and I love being female. I love sex...and finding people who appreciate my body as much as I do and who want to have sex with me has never been a problem.

So, OK....I am very, very biased, way too educated, and highly opinionated when it comes to the issues being raised in this thread.....all that being said:

Missus, can't exactly tell very much by the photo in your profile as it's only a face shot, but from what I see there you are quite attractive -- very sensual and feminine looking. Whether or not you are "too fat" is kinda an ambiguous question to begin with -- too fat for what or for whom?????

Too fat......to be healthy?

.....To be "attractive" in some general, absolute sense?

.....To be "attractive" within the parameters set by a culture obsessed with trying to make women conform to a ludicrous, anorexic-twizzle-stick ideal?

.....For a physiological/evolutionary ideal that demands that women's bodies seek to store enough fat for them to survive a 9 month famine, just in case the beginning of such a famine should happen to coincide with the beginning of a pregnancy?

.....For a relatively newly recovering alcoholic who could very well be looking for an excuse not to have to deal with his own lack of desire and/or fear of intimacy without the help of a little chemical boost in the self-esteem department?

How about the question that matters most here -- if you take away all the cultural b*llsh*t about how women are supposed to look and what it's supposed to say about their priorities and their values (as well as their value) if they choose not to look that way, and if you take away the "ouch" caused by your A's self-serving comment --

-- are you too fat for you?

Are you unhealthy because of your weight? Are you unable to do things that are important to you and that you want to do because of your weight? Do you, when you look in the mirror, see someone who you truly believe, based on your own personal aesthetic values, is unattractive? Are you unable to appreciate, enjoy, and revel in your own body because of your weight?

If your answer, minus all the cultural and hurtful BS, to those questions is "No," then I really fail to see how you might have a weight problem.

If you can't even begin to imagine how you might get beyond the cultural and hurtful BS to truly access how you feel about / perceive your body without those negative filters, then you do indeed have a problem, but it's not a body problem -- it's a mind problem.

I am sitting here thinking about everything I know about the way in which our culture uses "looksism" to disempower women, to undermine their confidence, to cause them to be disconnected from and even at war with their own bodies, and to divert all of the energy that they could be using to take care of, fulfill and advocate for themselves into the all-consuming, impossible task or trying to make themselves "suitable" by looking like a 20 year old anorexic twizzle sticks forever.

I'm thinking of all the money that is made from women because of that and all the power that is stolen from them. I'm thinking of all the pleasure they deny themselves because of it. I'm thinking about the epidemic of low-self-esteem among women.

I'm thinking that this sh*t's gotta stop.

For a woman to be called "too fat" in this culture is really no different than for a woman to be called a b*tch. It's one of those ultimate-weapon-type things. One of those things that's expected to immediately make her feel weak, and wrong, and undeserving. It's one of those things that is supposed to guarantee that she shuts-up, rolls over, goes back to her cinder-hearth and settles for whatever scraps they want to throw her way.

Well, f*ck that sh*t.

If he's got a problem with your weight, that's his problem. As far as I can tell, the bottom line issue here is that you need somebody who desires you physically....he's not interested in that and he apparently is interested in trying to make his lack of interest your fault. (Ha! Does he think you find that cowardly wussiness attractive??) He's also interested in using an ultimate weapon strategy to disempower and undermine you and get you to feel you have no choice but to settle for the sex-less life he's offering.

All of that is about him and all of it is his problem.

You know what you want...or at least you did before he brought out the ultimate weapon. You set your timetable and your boundary. He has said, in both words and (lack of) deeds "No." If it wasn't for the fact that he said "no" by trying to put the blame for his lack of desire on your weight, would there even be any question here about what to do?

Your weight has absolutely nothing to do with your right do do what you need to do to take care of yourself and get the kind of relationship you want with the kind of man who can fully participate in such a relationship.

You have absolute power here to prove his ultimate weapon a total dud.

JUST. DO. IT.

freya

TakingCharge999

Freya I love that book, the Beauty Myth! It is my favorite...
Thank you so much for your insights!

123bubblegum123

Themissus,

First off:

I'm so confused. Sorry it's so long, I have a tendancy to ramble.
stop apologizing!! you really need to realize that you're not doing anything wrong, whether its in a posting on this website or by being yourself within the relationship!

Next, sex is a HUGE part of any relationship. I really regret ever staying with men who weren't interested in pleasing me sexually, it totally effected the relationship i.e. ruined it.

You NEED to understand that there are actually amazing men out there who are worthy of your time and who'll love you for you - each quirk, each curve, and each word you say! This guy sounds so insensitive and downright cruel! Stop playing into the "codie" in you and stand up for yourself by leaving this dead end "relationship" - I say that because a "relationship" without sex is what's known as a friendship.

You need to focus on revamping your self esteem and finding yourself! I actually took myself off the market for well a long time lol because I honestly wasn't dating men who were good for me or treating me right. You could blame the state of mind I was in then, or the age of the guys I was dating - the end result is still the same: I was left unhappy and unsatisfied, which is a miserable feeling!

I can remember having the emptiest sex of my life. The guy I was with was a heavy drinker, like your bf, and also had a hard to getting it up as alcohol came first (FYI I'm a drug addict so it's not like i'm ms. mother theresa in all this) but all I wanted was for him to show me he cared through sex. I counted ceiling tiles while he did whatever. He passed out. I cried myself to sleep.

Do you really want to do that? I didnt think so. Find yourself then find a man who loves you just as much as you love yourself!

Please feel free to stay in touch on here, PM me any time =]

Hugs & support,
Rach

Tally

Aw you know I should probably be sitting rocking in a corner somewhere but I'm here and I'm smiling. Thank you so much for all the feedback, it really has done me the world of good and made me chuckle in parts too. I always find it quite difficult posting here about my problems, mostly because I feel like I'm always moaning but not doing anything about it and partly because I kinda know I'm gonna hear things that I might not wanna. But I must say, it's certainly a tonic. So thank you all again!

See, that kinda support I could use! We've talked in the past, I've mentioned concerns about my weight, he always seemed to be supportive when talking about it but when it actually required action, not so much. A few weeks back I told him I wanted to get an exercise bike, his reply was "Why bother, it'll only be used as somewhere to throw your clothes". Maybe so, but when you're trying to get motivated that's not the kinda thing you need to hear. Another issue was food shopping. I said I wouldn't be buying crisps anymore when I went food shopping as I would find it hard not to buy for myself. He still put crisps on his list though.

Mine doesn't want to get married so at least I don't have that worry. Nor does he want kids or my daughter to call him Dad, infact any type of commitment is a no go. :s
You're right, it is too short to settle. I'm only just starting to realise that now that I've just turned 32.

Thank you

[QUOTE=freya;2281366]
Whether or not you are "too fat" is kinda an ambiguous question to begin with -- too fat for what or for whom?????

For him? Lol.

Well, if I'm being honest then yes, I am too fat for me and it is effecting my health, hence me starting slimming classes. I have near enough zero confidense and a huge fear of rejection.
I also have asthma and COPD, so my weight is effecting my breathing.

When I embarked to change my eating habits 5 weeks ago I didn't even think about doing it to be more attractive to men. My main goals are to feel comfortable with myself and to feel healthier again. This is also one of the reasons I feel so positive about it and determined to do it. This is probably the first time I've wanted to do it for me since I put weight on.
I had a wobble when this revelation first hit me, my first instinct was to head for the fridge, but I just grabbed some yogurt and grapes instead. I refuse to let this set me back.

Made me laugh out loud! Thanks!

Wonderful post, thank you so much for taking the time to write it, it really hit home.

Tally

Lol, I was gonna say sorry again then! I don't think I've been myself for a very long time, the whole sexual, fun, flirty side of me is totally supressed at the moment. If I so much as made a reference towards sex I would get a dirty look.

When I tell him sex is important to a relationship he says its not. He said that I shouldn't expect fireworks after being with someone for 6 years, he said the honeymoon period doesn't last forever. He says that companionship and friendship is much more important and he wouldn't care if he never had sex again.

This might be acceptable if he was in his 70's but he's 37 and I'm 32.


I say the same thing myself, relationship - sex = friendship. If I wanted a flat mate I would have advertised for one eh!

This is what I want to do. Get me back. Get my confidense up, my weight down. Spend more time with my daughter before she turns into a teenager and hibernates in her bedroom. Laugh, have fun, flirt, be young again.

I used to cry myself to sleep most nights, rejection after rejection. Soon the conditioning worked and I stopped trying. Once I found detachment I was alot happier too.

Think that's half the trouble, don't love myself much at the moment. Am trying though!

Thank you

TakingCharge999

Hi Missus, whenever u feel bad I urge u to PM Lady Bubblegum here, she has talked me out of bad stuff in no time at the SR chat and she is a very nice girl !! like my little sister or PM me too...

Thanks for the motivation, I too want to feel healthier and more enthusiastic, more comfortable in my own skin. You are 32? you are a BABY!!!!!!!!! I am 27 and I feel all my past was like the Dark Ages and I am finally coming alive and realizing who I AM

Glad I'm not alone!! HUGS keep up the good work!!

Ago

I would like to thank you all for this thread, I have to say I felt I was going "out on a limb" by posting what I posted....

out on a limb.......get it??? get it??????????

I was 120'-135' feet up a tree all day and was more frightened by what I was going to find here then I was there

When it turned the direction it did it made me realize and remember why I love this place so much.

One of my past lives I was a Christian that got tossed to the lions at the Coliseum (I'm joking), on the drive home I was already looking back at that as "the good old days" I was so frightened.

P.S. By the way, I agree entirely with what Freya posted, all of it, this thread got me thinking and I had a talk about all of this and society etc, basically covered the same ground as Freya's contribution.

I did what I did years ago, she was considerably older then I was, and like I said, I handled it poorly, we talked about it when she brought it up, and I was supportive of her endeavors to lose weight but......I dropped the ball and it still bothers me today.

woulda coulda shoulda, that's one I get to live with for as long as I live.

Abundance

Best thread on SR.

steve11694

Wow, quite a popular thread and sore spot invoker.

I would venture to guess HIS lack of physical interest over 4 years could have very well contirbuted to gaining weight. People substitute other things when one thing is lacking.

Also what strikes me is the fact that he had already lost interest prior to the weight gain.

He could be just manipulating in an effort to keep you as a codep. If I were you, I would start to work out and eat healthy and trim down, not for him, but for you. This will help you emotionally also.

When I was in the crux of life with aw I had lost 30 lbs and had developed medical problems. I have to say that sports played a huge role in restoring my emotional and physical well being. Paradoxical insn't it, I was suffering and underweight. I began to play basketball regularly and before long was playing full court with high schoolers and my appetite was better.

It is true that physical appearance plays a role in attraction. There are actually many men (slim/handsome) that prefer overweight gals and are turned off by model types.

At this stage of the game, try to do things for YOU, rather than for HIM
Sounds to me like you have a ROOMATE and not a BOYFRIEND.

Jadmack25

I have been with my ABF for nearly 19 years and the only intimate moments have ever happened when he was drunk, or just having gone thru withdrawal from a binge. His excuse, when sober, has been that he has no interest or desire for sex, but he has no such problem after a gutful of beer. It seems to throw his inhibitions out the door, but as I found out a while back, it also tosses out any moral values too. I spent 4 years on antidepressants and in counseling after I found he had been with a couple of "tarts", and I felt totally ugly and old.

Since this I kept out of his way when he was drinking, and we see each other now as he is in counseling and been sober for some months. Needless to say his libido is back to zero, and the promises made to get medical help etc, have been forgotten. I have said nothing, and just keep busy with other interests as much as I can, and bought a "sex aid" for myself. I wonder if he will even notice that I have a smile on my dial quite often these days?
He knows that I will not stay with him if he drinks, because I will not go thru the "where is he and who is he with" nightmare again, and frankly I am getting to the stage where I really don't care much whether he hits the bottle or doesn't. I seem to be on the backburner either way.

ItsmeAlice

Missus - Just reading your last couple of posts, you are already starting to sound more confident about your path and so much more focused on you. Way to go!!!

I can see Ago's point about bringing the subject up and going about it the wrong way. I do equate it my ABF's alcoholism now that I think about it in that I think there's no way I can bring up the subject of his drinking to him without angering him, and there's no point to bringing it up since there's nothing I can about it. He has to want to quit drinking. I can only cheerlead from the sidelines if he decides to do it. There was no point in him bringing up my weight these last few years, because I would have just given him the littany of reasons why I felt the needed to binge eat, alot of it would have been directed back at him by way of his drinking. Even if he was successful in bringing it up without chapping me about it, I'm the only one who can do anything about it. He can only cheerlead from the sidelines.

I have been reminded by this thread that when a relationship is healthy, the topic of keeping each other healthy and happy is never taboo or hurtful because it comes from a place of caring, not expectations of what the other should be doing for us or vice versa.

Missus, if it helps to know, I have given myself no deadlines to my weight loss and I've looked at the changes in my appearance as a bonus to the better health I've gained. I've been working over a year now on it, and I've come so far already. I hit a plateau for a while and lost some motivation (no weight gained back so it's still a good thing), but I'm back in the groove now and pushing for shaving off another few pounds here in the next couple weeks.

Add one new healthy thing to your daily routine each week or month and you will be so suprised by how quickly things change.

Oh, and don't forget to take a day off to endulge yourself. One day a week to eat like a sweet tooth gone made or to have your favorite dinner out isn't going to change a whole week of hard work. It has paid off 10-fold for me and has done wonders for my morale. Some days, you just need to let your hair down, ya know. Call it a cheat day, call it a day off, I like to call it Sunday. LOL

Start your own weight loss thread and keep us up to date on your progress. I'd love to share exercise ideas and basic recipes (I'm no fancy cook).

Cheers!

Alice

MeHandle

It is also abusive behavior to with hold sex for no dam good reason and blame you for it!!!!!!!!!! Have you gained sooooo much weight that it is a good reason? I doubt it.... highly.

If he is choosing to blame you instead of go to the doctor that is passive abuse. I understand he may be scared of what they may find, or maybe he is lying to you about what he knows is the issue. Either case is a problem, he is trying to control you with passive abuse or he is manipulating you. Why would this be? Because he fears you would leave him?

Whatever his reasons, fears and/or excuses it appears he is making choices again that are not about a partnership with you but are about what he believes makes him as content as possible. The "whatever-s" are not an excuse, even an actual health issue. He is again being selfish.

Do what you need to do.