Please help me with this boundary

Old 06-26-2009, 01:12 PM
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Please help me with this boundary

AH lost his license for 1 year and has a truck. He found a driver that will drive him to work for use of the truck without pay. (No buses that will take him to work that early). AH wants the driver to drive him home so he doesn't have to take the bus. I told AH that it will not come out of our funds and that he is to use his "lunch money". AH agreed.

Is this a good boundary. My problem is that I think that by taking the bus every day that would be the consequence to his drinking and maybe hiring the driver is getting in the way of that.

The other problem is, arguably it is his money so even if I refuse to allow the driver, he probably could still since we are married.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:52 PM
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Thank you. Yes, I am in control of the household funds. Okay, so it's a start. This boundary thing is so hard.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:23 PM
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From what I read, you "have the reins" and it's definately wise to make him figure out how he can fund this expense.

Ohhhh, the burden - I remember it well. Having to "be in charge" made me more his mother than his equal partner. I hated being "his mother". It has a way of leaching into other areas of the marriage — but so many of us are in that role without even knowing it. In my case it nibbled away at any remaining respect I had for my AH. Nibbled away at his too.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:30 PM
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I only wish I had been in control of my x marriage finances. I was ruined financially and it took years to get it all straightened out.
I learned a hard lesson. Never let an alcoholic or drug addict have control of money.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by whyamistaying View Post
AH lost his license for 1 year and has a truck. He found a driver that will drive him to work for use of the truck without pay. (No buses that will take him to work that early). AH wants the driver to drive him home so he doesn't have to take the bus. I told AH that it will not come out of our funds and that he is to use his "lunch money". AH agreed.
I still get confused about what is and isn't a "boundary", so I put Anvilheads description in thread we had awhile back down below

Originally Posted by whyamistaying View Post
Is this a good boundary. My problem is that I think that by taking the bus every day that would be the consequence to his drinking and maybe hiring the driver is getting in the way of that.
My question here is his "consequence" seems to be the loss of his license for a year, but you would like to see the consequence be more severe, why is that? A consequence is a consequence, as in it is an immutable fact, you thinking he should take the bus seems to not fall under that category.

Him not being able to drive IS a consequence, him having to hire a driver IS a consequence, but you would like to see him take the bus, Is that a consequence or "punishment"?

I think it is entirely appropriate that you are angry, and that he should suffer some "repercussions" from his actions, because he should, but I have found when I start deciding what those consequences should be I am on a slippery slope.

Originally Posted by whyamistaying View Post
The other problem is, arguably it is his money so even if I refuse to allow the driver, he probably could still since we are married.
So to see if I understand, he turns over his entire paycheck to you, it then becomes "household money", then he is allowed to use his "lunch money" or his "allowance" if you would to pay for his own driver.

This is where I get confused about what a boundary is
arguably it is his money
I am not sure where the "arguably" part comes in, it either is or isn't his money, if it isn't his money then it's not there to pay for a driver, if it is his shouldn't he be able to do whatever he wants with his money?

If he earns it, it IS his money I think, I mean if he earns X $$$ in a month and "his part" of the household finances is XY, and he pays that, anything he has left over is his to whatever he wishes, that is if he is an adult and is treated as such.

But if chooses to turn his entire paycheck over to you and then receive an "allowance" it reminds me of this dynamic:

Having to "be in charge" made me more his mother than his equal partner. I hated being "his mother". It has a way of leaching into other areas of the marriage — but so many of us are in that role without even knowing it. In my case it nibbled away at any remaining respect I had for my AH. Nibbled away at his too.
See, I get confused about these things, I still think Spiggoli's decision to have pizza delivered to class makes perfect sense, so he could, "have a little snack on OUR time Mr. Hand" so I may be completely missing something here. In my thinking, if it is his money he should be able to hire a driver out of it, it's his money, he's an adult, seems pretty simple to me. As long as he meets his "requirements" and pays his bills the money he earns is his own isn't it?

Once you are "in charge" of HIS money it's no longer a boundary issue, it has moved into an entirely new dynamic. One way I have heard the dynamic described is "The Designated Patient" ie he is not competent to handle his own money so I will handle it for him.

One of the things I am learning is when I start crossing my own boundaries, allowing others to cross mine, setting boundaries for others on "their side of the street" these things all harm me, they all have immediate negative impact on my life and my emotional well being. I am really learning that boundaries are there to actually "PROTECT ME" not only from others, but from myself.

Every single time I "do" a boundary wrong the results are immediate and painful as well as in many instances cause myself and others untold long term suffering. Every. Single. Time.

So in this instance, is "having him give you all of his money and you deciding what he is "allowed" to spend his money on" and "giving him an allowance" a boundary or not is your question I believe, as well as you thinking maybe he should HAVE to take the bus as a further consequence of his DUI. Is it a "consequence" or "repercussion" or even punishment I would ask.

Here is Anvilheads description and I still go back and reread the thread to get fresh perspective when I get confused.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html

Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
Setting Boundaries
The purpose of setting boundaries is to take care of our self. Being forced to learn how to set boundaries is a vital part of learning to own our self, of learning to respect ourselves, of learning to love ourselves. If we never have to set a boundary, then we will never get in touch with who we really are - will never escape the enmeshment of codependence and learn to define ourselves as separate in a healthy way.

When I first encountered the concept of boundaries, I thought of them as lines that I would draw in the sand - and if you stepped across them I would shoot you (figuratively speaking.) (I had this image of some place like the Alamo - from a movie I guess - where a sword was used to draw a line in the sand, and then those that were going to stay and fight to the death stepped across it.) I thought that boundaries had to be rigid and final and somehow kind of fatal.

Some boundaries are rigid - and need to be. Boundaries such as: "It is not OK to hit me, ever." "It is not acceptable to call me certain names." "It is not acceptable to cheat on me."

No one deserves to be treated abusively. No one deserves to be lied to and betrayed.

We all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If we do not respect ourselves, if we do not start awakening to our right to be treated with respect and dignity (and our responsibility in creating that in our lives) - then we will be more comfortable being involved with people who abuse us then with people who treat us in loving ways. Often if we do not respect ourselves, we will end up exhibiting abusive behavior towards people who do not abuse us. On some level in our codependence, we are more comfortable with being abused (because it is what we have always known) than being treated in a loving way.

Learning to set boundaries is vital to learning to love our self, and to communicating to other's that we have worth.

There are basically three parts to a boundary. The first two are setting the boundary - the third is what we will do to defend that boundary.

If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.)

I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.

If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.

One very drastic example (in the case of someone who is just learning about boundaries and has been physically abused in the past) would be:

If you ever hit me, I will call the police and press charges - and I will leave this relationship. If you continue to threaten me, I will get a restraining order and prepare to defend myself in whatever manner is necessary.

It is not always necessary or appropriate to share the third part of this formula with the other person when setting a boundary - the first two steps are the actual setting of the boundary. The third part is something we need to know for ourselves, so that we know what action we can take if the other person violates the boundary. If we set a boundary and expect the other person to abide by it automatically - then we are setting ourselves up to be a victim of our expectation.

It is not enough to set boundaries - it is necessary to be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce them. We need to be willing to go to any length, do whatever it takes to protect ourselves. This is something that really upset me when I first started learning how to set boundaries. It took great courage for me to build myself up to a point where I was willing to set a boundary. I thought that the huge thing I had done to set a boundary should be enough. Then to see that some people just ignored the boundaries I had set, seemed terribly unfair to me.
(This page includes quotes from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls and quotes from other articles, columns, or web pages (indented) written by Robert Burney.)
I just don't see where giving him an allowance and then even deciding what he should be able to do with his allowance falls under this category and description of boundaries

Last edited by Ago; 06-27-2009 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:39 AM
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Let me clarify what I'm thinking. I'm trying not to be an enabler. I've been reading about consequences to one's actions and if I step in then the consesquences aren't felt.

The driver has his truck 24/7. He picks up my AH for work and drives him there for free. But that isn't good enough for AH. He wants to not take the bus. He wants to pay the guy to drive him home $20/a ride home. If I agreed and paid out of household funds, then I've stepped in? Right?

We can't afford $80/week to pay someone to drive him. If I drive him home, then I'm enabling him, right? So that was my attempt to say if you want a ride home because he thinks he so deserves it, then he needs to spend money that was allotted to him on this.

I know two things about my AH. He hates taking the bus and hates jail. He has said he hasn't hit bottom yet and that is why he is still drinking. My AH thinks he is a king and to wait for the bus is "below" him. My thinking was isn't having a driver not really having consequences? Maybe if he had to take the bus for a year he would reach his bottom.

In regards to the driver, have I enabled by putting gas in the car? The driver gets the car with gas 1x/week on us. We pay the tags, the insurance. I techincally own 1/2 that truck. So have I enabled by allowing "my" truck?
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