What if they're the ones that left YOU?
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by Lilly Burn 
Steve, so true, sadly my STBEXAH did exactly this behind my back for months before he left. In fact we made new mutual friends who have been hugely supportive and they had a very different impression of me before I got to know them because they were told all sorts of things by my AH..Ive found out lots of things he would say, often childish like "oh killjoy is coming soon" and that he hated being in the house with me..la la..But having spent many many hours on these forums and reading, I have learned to not take it personally and it has in fact, helped me maintain my no contact which I have done for 5 months, even though he is always trying to get to me...thats now how I see it. Thank you for your comment, so to the point and more reinforcement for me to keep on my path which as everyone says here, does get better, it really does and I wouldnt have believed it 5 months ago...
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by Ago
Could be
Could just be used as a "get out of jail free" card, if you just say someone has "paranoid demonization" you no longer have a "part" and are no longer responsible for your own actions.
They are just crazy...no reason...he just started acting like a crazy man and hated me for no reason.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never ever had an interaction in my life with someone getting angry at me where I didn't play SOME part.
I have worked with dozens upon dozens of alcoholics, probably well over 100, and known literally thousands, many of who "got it" many of who didn't, who walked out the door blaming everything and everyone else on their way out the door, and I have NEVER seen anything like the "paranoid demonization" that occurs in this forum. When alcoholics get sober they also address their codependent tendencies, but they aren't called that, they are called relationships with others.
I will even go as far to state I have been the subject of paranoid demonization from a practicing alcoholic, but I KNOW I played a part. In every instance. A pretty big part. I might not have "started it" but when they started "tossing the ball" I sure as hell "caught the ball and threw it back"
By the end there was absolutely two people playing, and I have NEVER ever in my life seen that not be the case.
That's just me though, I aint that smart and I'm frequently wrong.
Could just be used as a "get out of jail free" card, if you just say someone has "paranoid demonization" you no longer have a "part" and are no longer responsible for your own actions.
They are just crazy...no reason...he just started acting like a crazy man and hated me for no reason.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never ever had an interaction in my life with someone getting angry at me where I didn't play SOME part.
I have worked with dozens upon dozens of alcoholics, probably well over 100, and known literally thousands, many of who "got it" many of who didn't, who walked out the door blaming everything and everyone else on their way out the door, and I have NEVER seen anything like the "paranoid demonization" that occurs in this forum. When alcoholics get sober they also address their codependent tendencies, but they aren't called that, they are called relationships with others.
I will even go as far to state I have been the subject of paranoid demonization from a practicing alcoholic, but I KNOW I played a part. In every instance. A pretty big part. I might not have "started it" but when they started "tossing the ball" I sure as hell "caught the ball and threw it back"
By the end there was absolutely two people playing, and I have NEVER ever in my life seen that not be the case.
That's just me though, I aint that smart and I'm frequently wrong.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
For me, when something has ended painfully in relationships (romantic or otherwise), the most helpful perspectives have been the following:
1) there isn't a winner and a loser in love and breakups, there are just 2 people who don't fit together: that doesn't mean one of them is good and one bad, one the victor and one the reject, it just means that they were two imperfect people who aren't quite right for each other: even if one of them thought they were. This means that if someone moves on quickly, although that is painful and not what I would choose for myself (having done it and ended up in worse hot water) I don't have to compare myself to the new love interest as their strengths and weaknesses only mean anything in relation to the "goodness of fit" with my ex and him. They say nothing about me.
3) I don't have to demonise others to bolster my own self-esteem, this can mean that to others who might try and make me feel better with "oh he was an ass, a b******d, he doesn't know what he's missing", "she's a *****, a tramp, a skank, a?????" I might look like I'm taking longer to get over it than if I joined in the rant. It is enough for me to say (now with the perspective of time/space distance) we weren't a good enough fit for each other, and I am very hurt because I thought we were, I am mourning the future I had wanted together and I am hurt and angry that it ended so messily with bad behaviour on both sides.
2) If I want him/her and s/he doesn't want me, then I don't really want him/her (oh for a neutral pronoun). Because the person I want to be with doesn't have to be persuaded, trapped, emotionally blackmailed, or reminded that they love me.
2) trying to work out someone's motives or meaning or reasoning is futile, wastes my life (doesn't affect theirs or their behaviour) and leads to me spending it in turmoil and anxiety. When the "why did they say that, what do they mean? thoughts enter my mind, I try to think "hmmm, there's that thought again" and let it flow through and out of me rather than letting it burrow into my conciousness. He might be telling people you are crazy because he truly thinks that, because it's the only way he can live with himself, because you are crazy, because he is crazy........ doesn't matter really because
4) what anyone else thinks or says doesn't alter the reality of who we are or how others view us: (this is one of my favourites) if he called you a chair, would that mean you are a chair? no, then calling you crazy is as meaningless if you can look into your own self and see that you aren't: this was a REVELATION to me, I always believed that I WAS what others said I was, and I have needed counselling to help me evaluate my own behaviour, because I had no internal reference so I ended up trying to be perfect (and obviously failing).
5) seeing your part in a situation, is not about blame and self-flagellation, its about responsibility and, most wonderfully, working out how not to get into a horrible situation again. If I truly am a victim then I am prey to this happening over and over, if I had a part, however small, I can avoid being hurt in the same way again: I have a choice.
My last boyfriend before my H was probably a cocaine addict, and drunk-drove repeatedly, he also was unfaithful to me with many, many women and "borrowed" more money than I can remember, which he never paid back, he lied, he stole, (I am going for an arranged marriage next time as it is clear I am RUBBISH at this! LOL) he could also be exciting, generous and funny and charming. When we split up I was devastated and manipulated him into begging me to come back and even into agreeing to marry me, despite the fact that I had no intention of being with him, just so that I could reject him and make him feel the hurt that I had felt with the infidelities and lies.
which he did, and I rejected him and felt great for about half a day, and then it all seemed pretty futile, to have dedicated yet more of my precious time to him, when I could have been living my life. I was still left having to make my own life, and I could have got on with that a lot sooner if I hadn't been focussed on him.
be gentle with your self, but I found that trying to move away from a polarised him-bad, me-good, thinking helped me.
1) there isn't a winner and a loser in love and breakups, there are just 2 people who don't fit together: that doesn't mean one of them is good and one bad, one the victor and one the reject, it just means that they were two imperfect people who aren't quite right for each other: even if one of them thought they were. This means that if someone moves on quickly, although that is painful and not what I would choose for myself (having done it and ended up in worse hot water) I don't have to compare myself to the new love interest as their strengths and weaknesses only mean anything in relation to the "goodness of fit" with my ex and him. They say nothing about me.
3) I don't have to demonise others to bolster my own self-esteem, this can mean that to others who might try and make me feel better with "oh he was an ass, a b******d, he doesn't know what he's missing", "she's a *****, a tramp, a skank, a?????" I might look like I'm taking longer to get over it than if I joined in the rant. It is enough for me to say (now with the perspective of time/space distance) we weren't a good enough fit for each other, and I am very hurt because I thought we were, I am mourning the future I had wanted together and I am hurt and angry that it ended so messily with bad behaviour on both sides.
2) If I want him/her and s/he doesn't want me, then I don't really want him/her (oh for a neutral pronoun). Because the person I want to be with doesn't have to be persuaded, trapped, emotionally blackmailed, or reminded that they love me.
2) trying to work out someone's motives or meaning or reasoning is futile, wastes my life (doesn't affect theirs or their behaviour) and leads to me spending it in turmoil and anxiety. When the "why did they say that, what do they mean? thoughts enter my mind, I try to think "hmmm, there's that thought again" and let it flow through and out of me rather than letting it burrow into my conciousness. He might be telling people you are crazy because he truly thinks that, because it's the only way he can live with himself, because you are crazy, because he is crazy........ doesn't matter really because
4) what anyone else thinks or says doesn't alter the reality of who we are or how others view us: (this is one of my favourites) if he called you a chair, would that mean you are a chair? no, then calling you crazy is as meaningless if you can look into your own self and see that you aren't: this was a REVELATION to me, I always believed that I WAS what others said I was, and I have needed counselling to help me evaluate my own behaviour, because I had no internal reference so I ended up trying to be perfect (and obviously failing).
5) seeing your part in a situation, is not about blame and self-flagellation, its about responsibility and, most wonderfully, working out how not to get into a horrible situation again. If I truly am a victim then I am prey to this happening over and over, if I had a part, however small, I can avoid being hurt in the same way again: I have a choice.
My last boyfriend before my H was probably a cocaine addict, and drunk-drove repeatedly, he also was unfaithful to me with many, many women and "borrowed" more money than I can remember, which he never paid back, he lied, he stole, (I am going for an arranged marriage next time as it is clear I am RUBBISH at this! LOL) he could also be exciting, generous and funny and charming. When we split up I was devastated and manipulated him into begging me to come back and even into agreeing to marry me, despite the fact that I had no intention of being with him, just so that I could reject him and make him feel the hurt that I had felt with the infidelities and lies.
which he did, and I rejected him and felt great for about half a day, and then it all seemed pretty futile, to have dedicated yet more of my precious time to him, when I could have been living my life. I was still left having to make my own life, and I could have got on with that a lot sooner if I hadn't been focussed on him.
be gentle with your self, but I found that trying to move away from a polarised him-bad, me-good, thinking helped me.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
Hi Crazy4Him,
I'm new to SR and just recently posted my first post - my situation which seems pretty similar to yours. If you wanna read it's called "New to the Forum - Please Read!" Basically I'm not 100% sure if he's an alcoholic/addict (weed) but I know his father is an alcoholic and he definitely has addictive tendencies. There were many red flags that I chose to ignore (drinking through the night even though I went to sleep, passing out routinely, saying he's going to give up weed yet continuing to smoke resin every day, drinking entire bottles of vodka). We were involved in a long-distance relationship so I didn't really know the extent of things until I moved in with him. But once I got there, I didn't feel like I was really valued by him, I felt emotionally abandoned and tried to bring up my problems with his behavior but he didn't care and I became the crazy girl who just wanted to control him and keep him from having fun with his friends. He was irritable and cranky, had mood swings and would blow-up over the slightest thing. I'm not saying I was perfect in the relationship: I went through his emails because I was scared and began to lose trust and lied to him about it and when I told him the truth three days later he was furious and the dynamics of our relationship changed even more. Suddenly I was just another woman that did him wrong and wanted to hurt him. After weeks of constant fighting and me begging for him to forgive me and work on things, after a particularly tense night during which I felt really attacked and ignored by him, I got angry and threw some remotes and ended up accidentally breaking his tv. I realize now I was crying out for attention from him. When he found out what happened (he was upstairs at the time and refused to come down) he wanted me to leave. The few weeks before I left were a constant back and forth - He went from saying "I need you" to "I need you to be different." "I love you" to "You're a selfish, angry person and you need to grow up." I left thinking we were going to work on things, he said he loved me and wanted to forgive me and work through what happened. In fact a week after I had been home he called me and said how much he loved and missed me, how he knows I'm a good person and didn't mean to hurt him and that he forgave me and wanted to start over. I realize now that he was drunk when he called. So we continued to do the long distance thing then two days before he'd be out of the country for work he called me up saying he didn't want to be in a relationship any more. That he really tried to get over things but couldn't. So after being strung along and going through the back and forth, he dumped me.
This was pretty recent so I'm still dealing with a lot of questions - trying to figure out his behavior, why doesn't he love me enough to forgive me? I know I'm not perfect and did bad things in our relationship, but does that make me a horrible person?
So I understand the anger, the furious and hurt tears, the questions, the wanting to know why. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk. It helps knowing that someone else has gone through this too.
I'm new to SR and just recently posted my first post - my situation which seems pretty similar to yours. If you wanna read it's called "New to the Forum - Please Read!" Basically I'm not 100% sure if he's an alcoholic/addict (weed) but I know his father is an alcoholic and he definitely has addictive tendencies. There were many red flags that I chose to ignore (drinking through the night even though I went to sleep, passing out routinely, saying he's going to give up weed yet continuing to smoke resin every day, drinking entire bottles of vodka). We were involved in a long-distance relationship so I didn't really know the extent of things until I moved in with him. But once I got there, I didn't feel like I was really valued by him, I felt emotionally abandoned and tried to bring up my problems with his behavior but he didn't care and I became the crazy girl who just wanted to control him and keep him from having fun with his friends. He was irritable and cranky, had mood swings and would blow-up over the slightest thing. I'm not saying I was perfect in the relationship: I went through his emails because I was scared and began to lose trust and lied to him about it and when I told him the truth three days later he was furious and the dynamics of our relationship changed even more. Suddenly I was just another woman that did him wrong and wanted to hurt him. After weeks of constant fighting and me begging for him to forgive me and work on things, after a particularly tense night during which I felt really attacked and ignored by him, I got angry and threw some remotes and ended up accidentally breaking his tv. I realize now I was crying out for attention from him. When he found out what happened (he was upstairs at the time and refused to come down) he wanted me to leave. The few weeks before I left were a constant back and forth - He went from saying "I need you" to "I need you to be different." "I love you" to "You're a selfish, angry person and you need to grow up." I left thinking we were going to work on things, he said he loved me and wanted to forgive me and work through what happened. In fact a week after I had been home he called me and said how much he loved and missed me, how he knows I'm a good person and didn't mean to hurt him and that he forgave me and wanted to start over. I realize now that he was drunk when he called. So we continued to do the long distance thing then two days before he'd be out of the country for work he called me up saying he didn't want to be in a relationship any more. That he really tried to get over things but couldn't. So after being strung along and going through the back and forth, he dumped me.
This was pretty recent so I'm still dealing with a lot of questions - trying to figure out his behavior, why doesn't he love me enough to forgive me? I know I'm not perfect and did bad things in our relationship, but does that make me a horrible person?
So I understand the anger, the furious and hurt tears, the questions, the wanting to know why. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk. It helps knowing that someone else has gone through this too.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I have been both the leaver and the leav-ee. Both were learning experiences that taught me that not every two people are meant to be together....and it doesn't have to mean that one of them is a monster and one an angel, or that there's something wrong with us. Sometimes a couple are just not right for each other...and one of them realizes that before the other.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
I guess if the other leaves YOU your EGO is hurt
But your REAL SELF strives as it finished learning from one experience and is ready to move on to the next one that will ultimately bring you closer to wisdom and light.
SHEESH it sounds so easy in writing LOL
But your REAL SELF strives as it finished learning from one experience and is ready to move on to the next one that will ultimately bring you closer to wisdom and light.
SHEESH it sounds so easy in writing LOL
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 146
It's funny that this got bumped because last night at work my xabf spoke to me civilly for the first time since he wrote me that very text. I just stared at him and didn't respond. Couldn't actually. At this point I don't know if he's still drinking or not so I have no idea what his motives were. Nor do I care. I am so far past him that I didn't even know what to say when he spoke to me. Back in my codie days I would have had a response ready for "the moment" when he decided to come to his senses and treat me like a human being. I think the fact that I didn't have an immediate response shows that he is no longer paramount in my mind and my being. And that is an amazing thing.
He wrote that next nearly two months ago and I haven't spoken to him since because I felt like it was the healthy thing to do. He asked me to stay away from him and I have done just that. It's refreshing to read it again. The timing couldn't be better because it just reminds me that he and I are two people that just cannot be in each others lives for any reason. I don't blame my axbf anymore, I'm not angry with him anymore and I truly do want him to stop drinking and find some kind of peace. He's just going to have to do it without me.
We were very unhappy when we were together. I was unhappy.
I am thankful to him for writing me that awful text. Strangely enough, it was the best thing he's ever done for me.
He wrote that next nearly two months ago and I haven't spoken to him since because I felt like it was the healthy thing to do. He asked me to stay away from him and I have done just that. It's refreshing to read it again. The timing couldn't be better because it just reminds me that he and I are two people that just cannot be in each others lives for any reason. I don't blame my axbf anymore, I'm not angry with him anymore and I truly do want him to stop drinking and find some kind of peace. He's just going to have to do it without me.
We were very unhappy when we were together. I was unhappy.
I am thankful to him for writing me that awful text. Strangely enough, it was the best thing he's ever done for me.
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