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Old 06-22-2009, 05:10 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FunnyOne View Post
I REALLY don't understand a program that is so ala carte.
Originally Posted by FunnyOne View Post
I don't think that there is just one way to recover from being extremely hurt.
You do see the irony here, don't you?

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Old 06-22-2009, 05:15 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FunnyOne View Post
Actually, I usually post an original when I am frustrated, so that might be what you see. If you look at my supportive responses to others, you might see the part of me that is really grounded and centered. I have, as I'm sure you have, received thanks and pm's for bringing my experience of dealing with difficult loved ones to the table.
Actually, that really only proves the point that your focus is more on others than it is on you.

Maybe you could share what you have been doing to focus on your side of the street? Then I wouldn't assume you are consumed with his behavior, attitudes, recovery (or lack of).

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Old 06-22-2009, 05:22 PM
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Andrew, my intention was not to offend. Actually, I don't know any recovering alcoholics personally except for my husband. The mistake I made is in not making it clear that I was talking about MY selfish , self centered etc. AA husband. Sorry if I gave the impression that all people in AA are selfish, as that was not my intention.
Yet, I have read many posts from other recovering Alcoholics that talk of these people too and how they steer clear of them. Actually, everywhere and every group of gathered humans has self absorbed people...I would venture to guess that folks that live in alcohol free countries even do.

You said "Secondly, you asked this question in order to take someone else's "inventory", not for your own program, but to find out how your husband was "doing it wrong"
Did I Andrew? The thing that I have found in my recovery is that assuming I know what another is thinking, or their true motives by my opinion, is not a recovery move at all. No, Andrew....I really asked the question because I really wanted to understand the concept because it is so foreign to me. Fixing my husband is not anything I have ever recalled saying or intending to do. Understanding him, yep, I'm all about that.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:22 PM
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So are you any closer to understanding the concept of "take what you can use and leave the rest?" Do you think that concept will help you as you move forward with whatever plan you're hatching to recover from this shock you've suffered? Or maybe it's a concept you need to "leave" so you can move forward? No riddle intended!!

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Old 06-22-2009, 07:49 PM
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Okay people, let's try this again from the top.

#1 Everybody take _one_ day off from this thread. Go walk around the block, breathe some air, take a bath, whatever.

#2 The best way to _not_ offend others is to count your pronouns. If you write in the first person you're doing good. The moment you start with the "you shoulds" and the "we" and the advice the chances of sticking your foot in your mouth become 100% (or is that sticking the keyboard in your mouth?)

#3 There's a button at the bottom of this thread titled "Post Quick Reply". If you hit that button you have violated the primary objective of recovery, which is to bring some acceptance and serenity into our lives.

#3A Do _not_ use the "Post Quick Reply" button. write your post in an editor (Word, Notepad, etc.) then go breathe some air. Come back. _Delete_ your post. Then write just one or two sentences that convey the essence of what you meant to say.

#4 Us volunteers here on SR are _very busy_. We have people in crisis, people thinking of suicide, children looking for answers because their parents are beating them up, people with serious illnesses, predators, etc. etc. Having to interject in a thread to tell you guys to cool off is a serious distraction from all those crisis. Frankly, we have better things to do than baby sit your failure to communicate. Which brings me to:

#5 If you are unable to follow rules #1 thru #3A above I will help you without unduly distracting me from my other duties. I will simply start yanking posts and locking threads rather than sit back and wait for you all to work it out amongst yourselves.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:50 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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So yes, I am trying to really grasp the "disease", the program, and the concept that my husband went into rehab saying he was going to get better and come back and make it up to his family and be the best damn husband and father in the world....and that after 90 days he is saying his life is complete with his new family of AA and he doesn't need the problems of his old family.
That must be heartbreaking. I'm staying out of politics here, just wanted to say that I empathize.
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:02 AM
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FunnyOne have you read the book Under the Influence? It really helped me grasp the disease model of alcoholism. It doesn't excuse bad behaviour but it did give me a fresh perspective on my STBXAH's alcoholism.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:01 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FunnyOne View Post
Andrew, my intention was not to offend.
No no, I wasn't offended, I know you didn't mean to offend anyone, and you certainly didn't offend me, I mentioned that if I understood the concept as you did, I would have been angry too. I was mentioning how I understood how the two people who were offended could find it offensive.

:ghug3

Originally Posted by FunnyOne View Post
You said "Secondly, you asked this question in order to take someone else's "inventory", not for your own program, but to find out how your husband was "doing it wrong"
Did I Andrew? The thing that I have found in my recovery is that assuming I know what another is thinking, or their true motives by my opinion, is not a recovery move at all. No, Andrew....I really asked the question because I really wanted to understand the concept because it is so foreign to me. Fixing my husband is not anything I have ever recalled saying or intending to do. Understanding him, yep, I'm all about that.
With the exception of the opening sentence the entire original post is "taking your husband's inventory" and showing how he is "doing it wrong". There is nothing there about you. I didn't make an accusation or assumption, it was an observation based on what you wrote.

yesterday emotions were running high here, mine included, if I wasn't as gentle as I could be, I am very sorry, but it was an accurate observation.

If it makes you feel any better, in trying to explain this concept to you, I am "taking your inventory" which is displaying the same character defect I am trying to make you aware of.

I will go stand in the corner for ten minutes after I post this.

In what other program, process, or subject do you get to do this and still master the concept? When you are learning a foreign language, do they say "Don't worry about learning the predicate forms if you they don't resonate with you." Don't worry about the theory of relativity while building that rocket. If you want to follow the ten commandments but "Thou shalt not kill." isn't one you care to take with you, don't worry about it.

I think that is what allows selfish, self centered, egotistical, grandiose arrogant people to fool themselves into thinking they are embracing and following the program when actually using and taking only those parts that support their need to stay in that "self" mode. I don't get it. It reinforces a denial tactic that these folks have practiced for years. They can not drink, drug, overeat, blah, or blah and still keep the same behaviors going because they were told to leave what didn't resonate. Giving up the whatever because it will kill you is one thing, but giving up the behaviors of fantabulous me? No way!

So my "thinks he is recovering not drinking" AH can date, divorce me, see his son whenever he wants which is not very much, not offer to help with this overwhelming piece of property he owns half of, etc etc because he chooses NOT to heed the warnings of no relationships in the first year, no big life decisions in the first year, making ammends to the people that loved you at your worst, etc etc.

And while I am on my soapbox, I also don't like the "stay away from people and places that will trigger" line. My husband had trouble coping with life. Amen. When life became three teenagers, very busy schedules, hormones, and all the angst of raising entitled generation me'ers in this crazy internet, cell phone, crib mtv watching, etc. he zoned out in front of the tv with a glass in his hand, and I handled the schedules and the parenting and the problems.

Now, he can't come back to his family EVER because those were the things he drank to get away from. Now, I understand that for the first year or so, and agree with the separation because I don't like the ups and downs of it anyway....but using this as an excuse to stay in your own little selfish world doing what you want when you want??? I think that they were referring to bars, drinking buds, etc. But since you can take what you want (the way you want to understand it) and leave the rest...well then, you can be damn proud of yourself that you are sticking to the guidelines of the program!!!
This is the exact definition of "taking someone's inventory"

For me, what I had to learn is when I "put myself out there" and "asked for help" I had to be prepared for the answer, if it makes me uncomfortable, usually there is something worth a second look.

We truly are on your side, I am sorry if you feel "attacked", it's not my intention.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:49 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Thank you DesertEyes and I hear what you're saying... for any thread anywhere on the www.

I recently listened through Chuck C's tapes and he said some simple thing that really jumped out at me... in relation to your instructions for personal pronouns. He said something to the effect that we like to be "shown", not "told". How true that is.

I'm a recovered alcoholic, and I want to empathize with any and all who suffer from the social/behavioral/etc. effects of the alcoholic.

Sober or not, in A.A. or not, one cannot duck the responsibilities nor should they get a pass for any harm they put out into the universe.

If an alcoholic does not repair...as best they can... the damage caused in the past, they will not live happy or long.

I was married to a woman I met in a bar. When came to A.A. and got sobered up a bit, we grew apart and we divorced. It was not pretty. We both had our part in the termination of marriage. We split our stuff and agreed to not bother each other anymore. Thank God we had no children... for their sakes. I got sobered up, again... in A.A. and after about 3 years, my life took off, career blossomed like never before, and I met a gal sober. We're happily married today... will be 9 years tomorrow, in fact, and she likes me sober. What a concept.

In the beginning, I warned her that I was in A.A. and had a bad history with booze. She and I saw eye-to-eye spiritually and it didn't send her running. But as I told her pieces of my past and as she started to meet my family and some of my once-time-friends, she warned me, "I won't put up with any drinking." And I'm sure she means it. She does not give me a pass in any shape or form. I told her she might like alanon and she checked it out. She told me, "If you pulled the stuff that some of those peoples' SO's are pulling, you'd be out on the street." She's never seen me drunk. She has heard me on the other end of the phone when I was on a drunken bender at a hotel (work related) and in a jail cell though. She told me to do what I had to do and get sobered up. I did. It's been over 5 years.

There is hope. The odds in A.A. aren't good, from what I see and hear. I really do work these steps and am many times accused of being a number of things. But that's ok. It took diligent and constant surrender, submission, and step work. But it is so worth it.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:50 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FunnyOne View Post
This is like a death to me and I believe statistically divorce is right up there.
Well, when my marriage was falling apart and we were very obviously (at least to any sane, healthy person) headed for divorce, I did pretty much everything in my power to keep that dissolution and divorce form happening. Consequently I went through 4 years of extreme mental and emotional anguish and ended up nearly suicidal at one point.

Looking back on it now, here's what I know: At least 2.5, if not a solid 3, years of the misery, I put on myself. I did it by focusing on what I wanted to be true rather than on accepting what was true. I did it by focusing on him and his problems and his faults and by thinking that if he would just get with the plan (my plan for him, of course) and be who I wanted him to be, everything would be fine and we would all be happy. I did it by clutching tightly all the ideas and memories of how he had done me wrong and failed our family, and, thereby, not being able to see my own part and/or truly grasp my own power.

The truth was that the only possible outcome to that situation (that didn't involve either the death and/or the institutionalization of one of us) was divorce...but, since I didn't want to accept that outcome, I engaged in all kinds of diversionary, b*llsh*tting of myself behavior that did nothing but delay the inevitable, draw-out and deepen my pain and misery, and significantly increase the chances that a death-and/or-institutionalization outcome might indeed occur.

Sure, I had to go through the pain of the dissolution and the "death" (of the dream, of the relationship); there was absolutely no way (other than suicide or murder) around that. But by trying to avoid or delay that necessary pain rather than move forward through it with faith and trust in HP, I turned my own pain and grief into self-inflicted tortuous misery. Regardless what my ex did to me; regardless of his faults or shortcomings; regardless of the reasons for any of those, regardless of whether or not I understood what he did and why; and regardless of whether or not he has, has not, or ever will do anything to recover from any of that, I have absolutely no one to blame for that lion's share of my suffering except for myself.

Yeah, it's a death.....it hurts and it sucks...but it hurts and sucks a lot more, for a lot longer when I focus on the other person and all the ways in which I've been victimized, instead of claiming my power and getting on with and through the grieving process.

And what sucks even more is looking back and knowing that, for most of that, I did it to myself.

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