LaTeeDa

Let me first say that I am absolutely prone to "analysis paralysis," lol. And I appreciate the lengths you have gone to in this post to make your point that sometimes we truly are victims, while other times, we bring things on ourselves. I understand that.

But, I don't think it really matters so much whether we are victims of our own behavior, or victims of another's behavior. For me, it was a combination of both.

In the end, though, all that really mattered was I gave myself away. Whether I was a victim of the alcoholic, or a victim of my own poor choices, it still comes down to abdicating my power. And the only way to heal from that is to reclaim it. To stop being a victim, and to stop identifying myself in that role.

My two cents,

L

MeHandle

Thank you LTD.

As to your response we would totally agree, I covered the perspective of the person with "both."

At some point the victim is victim no more, but some need more time healing and more help working through it. Not all peoples personalities and/or individual gifts and talents bring about the same movement in healing.

For me I had to recognize that I was a victim and not a outside observer. I would be like," That is abusive" instead of " Okay, I am being abused." WHen I finally recognized the difference I was like ," Daaa, no wonder why i am worn down. This is progressing and aimed at me. I have no choice here, as if to be an objective observer of what is abusive. I am being abused. Daaa, i am a victim." However, I quickly recover. But i know many do not recover as fast. ANd others can not separate being a vicim from being victimized until they receive much healing. Also some cannot unless they are totally separated from the abuser.

And for me co-dependance was not an issue. I had my spiritual awakening at 23 and my program was the tools and behaviors that were guided by the love of God found in the example of Christ. ( Which is embedded into the 12 step programm and that is why i believe it works when applied.

love tammy

whyamistaying

I want to thank you for your reply. I actually had to think about it about for the past day and really digest what you are saying. I don't at all think you are being a "hardpoopybutt".

I often think, how can you detach when you are married to an alcoholic? I bolded and italics the part that really is hitting home with me. In essence, you can't be married to an alcoholic.

Thank you.

whyamistaying

Thank you for the advice. He has lost his license. I don't know how he gets the beer. It isn't from me. He sneaks it in the garage. It is hidden in the garage and in a backpack.

whyamistaying

Thank you for the advice. He has lost his license. I don't know how he gets the beer. It isn't from me. He sneaks it in the garage. It is hidden in the garage and in a backpack.

Before he went into rehab he was drinking a lot and would take his lunch money and save it for beer so I wouldn't know how much he was drinking. He would go without lunch. He also would go shopping to get dinner and also buy buyer and then tell me he threw away the receipt. He sold a gold coin of his to someone for $1k and used that money for beer. I didnt' find out about the coin or lunch money until after rehab.

MeHandle

(I am coming back to this because i what to expand on the description of my experience.)

For me seeing I am a victim was both a growth and humbling before God. It wasn't that i denied there was abuse but I didn't recognize that I was a victim of abuse. Like i said, I stood as an objective view from the outside and would say," That is abusive behavior AH." So you could either say i was in denial of abuse towards me or I had what is called a mental disconnect in my thinking, slow on the critical thinking.:-) I would say it was the later.

It was at the point that that AH progressed from passive abuse to agressive abuse in how he dealt with our teenage boys that it started to click.I didn't even place the passive abuse as abuse, but looked at it like "alcoholic behavior" until after the aggressive abuse came.

When the aggressive abuse started in how he dealt with our sons that is when my natural fighter, instead of lover instinct came out, the my job to protect momma bear side of me. I heard him going at it with one of my sons , the issue over my son being on the computer too much( raised voices and threats of violence) and I came down to intervene , got in his face, and told him " How you handle things is abusive, you are abusing our son!!! Walk away now!" As he didn't immediately walk away but started quacking I told me sons ,"Come on were leaving." At that point my husband left.

It was after this when he dealt with me the same way I personalized that he was abusing me. It was at this point i had a new understand of letting go and letting God. I recognized i was powerless over someone aiming abuse at me.( My sons in turn chose to protect me one day when my husband appeared to by physically coming to hit me. I was proud of how they handle it. However, they shouldn't have to handle or deal with such a matter. I need to protect them from needing to do that.) That no matter how well i handled dealing with a situation or how respectful i loved and treated him he was abusing. This was my message from God and it was telling me let go and let God deal with him, not my job. I did all i could humanly do by being a loving an respectful wife, now I needed to release him into the hands of God. And also in turn I need to accept the hand of God to release me from this abuse because I was really a victim and there is no shame in that as i have no control over someone elses choice to victimize. I had to make me recognize and admit that no matter how I was not co-dependant with AH that I could still be harmed and when i was hurt I need to come to Him instead this false understanding that because I am secure in HIm that I was so strong in His love that I could not be worn down by a human's harm. I need to realize that He wanted me to be vulnerable and come to him to healing and rescue. i need to learn a new what it means to cry out to God and ' let go and let God.' I also believe God had to allow this and teach me this for a few other reasons.

One is so that i would have a soft heart and recognize that other people can't control when they are victimized and that just growing and getting strong in themselves with God can't change the fact that they are being victimized and/or were victimized. He had to humble me so that i would lose this attitude of, " Just look to God and walk in his power, you can have joy in the suffering." I had to learn that abuse in a marriage is not something that God wants us to endure through. He created marriage to be the most intimate , secure , sharing protecting and uplifting partnership a human can share. The lesson: As a human I was not called to endure suffering abuse in marriage. From the world yes, from my husband , no!

Another is that I had to recognize that AH was not responding to the gift God gives in a wife and family with human love and support. God was reminding me that God disciplines those he loves and I was not the one he need to discipline. I was allowed suffering so I would get out of his way and learn to receive from the hand of God .> Hebrews 12:1b through 13 :let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."[a]

7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! 10Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

12Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. 13"Make level paths for your feet,"[b] so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.

And i know if AH doesn't respond to this then the God who loves Him more then me will go beyond this to reach out a hand to rescue him. The other reason as a christian i must go through making a case before the church for divorce of another christian: 1 Corinthians 5

Expel the Immoral Brother!

1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."[b]


( I know AH will then again have a choice, to have faith and let go and let God, or to continue to control his earthly destiny)
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Then the other thing that I recognized is that I could not allow my children to live with AH's continuing progression into abuse and continue to deny ( yes denial here) that this was effecting their well being long before the abuse started. Abandonment covered that. So, God made clear that I was there human protector by right as their father had abused his authority to lead by tearing them down instead of building them up and by being absent from them in spirit because of alcohol and its effects.

So sum up: For me it was humbling to admit I was a victim. So even if i have power over not remaining victimized in spirit, ( not what I need to learn- I had this) I have no control over being a victim if someone so chooses to target me for harm. ( Need to understand this.)

love tammy

steve11694

Interesting how the DUI now has him "picking up trash" instead of "getting trashed"



Sorry you have to go through all this. Your time is better spent with productive positive activities.

steve11694

What you say is true, they can stop if and when they want to; HOWEVER (big however)

multiple mechanisms are in play that actually can blind them to seeing they have a problem. It is not until the negative consequences are worse than the perceived pleasure of drinking that they may choose to stop.

steve11694

If I may add something, a true story. A dear family member had cancer that spread to the liver. Essentially mimicked what alcoholism can do to the liver and cause the production of toxins that alter mentation. This loved one was belligerent and nasty at times.