If I find beer hidden do I confront him or not?
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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If I find beer hidden do I confront him or not?
After rehab, the first time I saw him sneak beer and he said it was "only 1", I told him to go to AA and drove him there. Now, I see he doesn't call his sponsor regularly and has walked out of an AA meeting to buy beer. So he is not serious (that's my thinking) about quitting.
My rule is no beer in the house or he is kicked out. I'm reading about boundaries. If I find empty beer cans hidden do I confront him or do I just ignore it?
Do you think it would be wise to give up the no beer in my house rule? I put it in place last October after the first DUI because I felt I had to do something. But I know now that I can't stop him and only he can.
My rule is no beer in the house or he is kicked out. I'm reading about boundaries. If I find empty beer cans hidden do I confront him or do I just ignore it?
Do you think it would be wise to give up the no beer in my house rule? I put it in place last October after the first DUI because I felt I had to do something. But I know now that I can't stop him and only he can.
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 35
My rule is no beer in the house or he is kicked out. I'm reading about boundaries. If I find empty beer cans hidden do I confront him or do I just ignore it?
Edited to add: I am very perplexed by your username too. Can you answer your own question?
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Yes, that means he would be kicked out. But I don't want to enforce it since I made it when I thought "threats" would work. If I kick him out that will be the end of the marriage. He won't come back. So when I made that "rule" in October I thought the "threat" of being kickedout would work so that is what is making me wonder about the beer in the frig.
But I think I see, he doesn't believe the threat anyways...but why is he hiding it then? why not put it in the frig? So maybe he does believe it. Either way I see after his latest stunts that I can't make him do something and threatening won't help and if I want to leave don't threaten, just do it.
It's late. Hope that made sense.
About my username--I grabble with that on a daily basis, but don't have the guts to do it yet due to the kids and my age.
But I think I see, he doesn't believe the threat anyways...but why is he hiding it then? why not put it in the frig? So maybe he does believe it. Either way I see after his latest stunts that I can't make him do something and threatening won't help and if I want to leave don't threaten, just do it.
It's late. Hope that made sense.
About my username--I grabble with that on a daily basis, but don't have the guts to do it yet due to the kids and my age.
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If you are not ready to make him leave then I wouldn't stress much about whether you let him know you've found it or not. I've done everything you've mentioned here: Told him if he continued to drink our marriage was over (but was hoping to change his behaviour), told him I'd found it and I knew he was drinking but please don't hide it anymore because I can't stand the lying, and ignored it completely (plus a range of other responses which I'm going to term "going fish-wife on his ass" for delicacy). I tried each of these more than once "just to make sure" LOL
and none of them made a darn bit of difference to his behaviour.
in each instance he:
a) continued to drink
b) both in the open and in secret and
c) kept hiding the bottles.
honestly it made no difference at all.
Those 3 c's? that you didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it (or something similar LOL) they are spot on in my experience and that goes right down to the "enabling" too. Your response to this particular situation is probably going to make not a jot of difference to his drinking career.
If you don't intend to carry out the threat (and that's completely your decision, if you aren't ready, you aren't ready), then I'd be inclined to ignore it whilst you spend some time focussing on working out what you want and forming a workable boundary for yourself that you can enforce.
If you are unhappy with that you could tell him that you have found them, that you remember the threat you made but realise that you made that from a position of fear, hurt and ignorance, and are now working on some boundaries for your own life as you are evaluating your options given that he continues to drink (fill in your own words obviously).
but that would be for your sake and sanity, not his.
good luck
and none of them made a darn bit of difference to his behaviour.
in each instance he:
a) continued to drink
b) both in the open and in secret and
c) kept hiding the bottles.
honestly it made no difference at all.
Those 3 c's? that you didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it (or something similar LOL) they are spot on in my experience and that goes right down to the "enabling" too. Your response to this particular situation is probably going to make not a jot of difference to his drinking career.
If you don't intend to carry out the threat (and that's completely your decision, if you aren't ready, you aren't ready), then I'd be inclined to ignore it whilst you spend some time focussing on working out what you want and forming a workable boundary for yourself that you can enforce.
If you are unhappy with that you could tell him that you have found them, that you remember the threat you made but realise that you made that from a position of fear, hurt and ignorance, and are now working on some boundaries for your own life as you are evaluating your options given that he continues to drink (fill in your own words obviously).
but that would be for your sake and sanity, not his.
good luck
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
The 24 Hour Plan.
That's what my marriage stayed on for over a year.
I had a plan for my future, my career and my children. I wasn't always sure it included my AXH. Somewhere I learned of the 24 hour plan. This is how it works:
Each morning before your feet hit the floor, you decide option 1 or 2
Option 1: I am staying married today
Option 2: I am leaving this marriage today
Then, you spend the rest of that day living to the best of your ability the option you have chosen.
It helped me stop the stinking thinking, obsessing over every little thing, building more resentments, etc. I was able to focus my attention on the tasks at hand and stay committed to my plan for another 24 hours.
That's what my marriage stayed on for over a year.
I had a plan for my future, my career and my children. I wasn't always sure it included my AXH. Somewhere I learned of the 24 hour plan. This is how it works:
Each morning before your feet hit the floor, you decide option 1 or 2
Option 1: I am staying married today
Option 2: I am leaving this marriage today
Then, you spend the rest of that day living to the best of your ability the option you have chosen.
It helped me stop the stinking thinking, obsessing over every little thing, building more resentments, etc. I was able to focus my attention on the tasks at hand and stay committed to my plan for another 24 hours.
Su**endering...
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 102
You put the boundary in place to protect your OWN sanity and emotional health. Now you're willing to compromise that?
Excercising such boundaries is painful...and HARD to do. But so is living with active disease. If you allow that boundary to be crossed...you are giving away part of yourself. And for what? To avoid the confrontation with an alcoholic?
Excercising such boundaries is painful...and HARD to do. But so is living with active disease. If you allow that boundary to be crossed...you are giving away part of yourself. And for what? To avoid the confrontation with an alcoholic?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Oh my goodness! The threats and ultimatums I used to make. They never work unless you are fully prepared to back them up. Otherwise, the A reads right through them and mows over you anyway.
I learned alot this weekend. Its been a year since I kicked my exah out of the house after many boundary crossings, threats and ultimatums. Guess what? He isn't doing any better today. Maybe even worse but as sad as that made me I was thankful he wasn't my mess to clean up anymore. I still love the man so much, but it nice to walk away from the reception, get in my car with my baby and drive to my peaceful home while his family poured him into the car and put him to bed.
You will need to decide for you what is best.
I learned alot this weekend. Its been a year since I kicked my exah out of the house after many boundary crossings, threats and ultimatums. Guess what? He isn't doing any better today. Maybe even worse but as sad as that made me I was thankful he wasn't my mess to clean up anymore. I still love the man so much, but it nice to walk away from the reception, get in my car with my baby and drive to my peaceful home while his family poured him into the car and put him to bed.
You will need to decide for you what is best.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
Originally Posted by whyamistaying 
My rule is no beer in the house or he is kicked out. I'm reading about boundaries. If I find empty beer cans hidden do I confront him or do I just ignore it? .
What if you did neither? You decide not to engage a full frontal assault AND you do not ignore the facts?
This way may open the situation up for a more solution-oriented perspective.
In your plan above, you get to stay stuck in the problems, HIS problem and yours.
What we call "ignoring" is also known as denial, minimising, numbing behaviour. It can erode your inner truth faster than acid on enamel.
What we hope the outcome of confrontation to be, on the other hand, is never what actually ends up. It further charges the issues.
I suggest you remain aware, open-eyed, calm, rational and on your own inner path.
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Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
I just wanted to mention that when my dad was drinking heavy, he would hide bottles. I think he was hiding as much from himself - was ashamed of his behavior and even though there were no threats that I was aware of, he didn't want the family to know how much he was drinking or he wanted alcohol accessible in every little place (basement, garage, bathroom, etc.) so would stash a bottle there.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
I found an empty can. I wasn't even looking for it. He has now switched to regular Budweiser instead of Budlight...I assume for the effect. He woke up at 1:30 a.m. to throw it away in the trash since trash pick up is today.
To answer your questions, his actions tell me he doesn't give a flip about the family or what he has put us through...beer comes first. My actions show I am not serious enough about him not drinking to actually leave and I suspect he knows it.
To answer your questions, his actions tell me he doesn't give a flip about the family or what he has put us through...beer comes first. My actions show I am not serious enough about him not drinking to actually leave and I suspect he knows it.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I agree that if you give someone the threat of action if they cross a line you have to be prepared to back it up. If you do not, then you only have yourself to blame when they get bolder and more brazen about doing what you don't like around you.
Sometimes I find if I am not upholding the boundaries I have set it is because they are too vague or I am ill prepared to uphold them. To test this, I often look at it from my ABF's hair-splitting mentality.
I USED to tell my ABF that I didn't like when he drank all day Sunday in front of the TV and acted like a jerk anytime I tried to go in there to watch TV or whatever. In response to this, he started drinking all day on the front porch. He would act like a jerk every time he came in the house to use the bathroom or get more beer out of the fridge. When I complained, he reminded me that he wasn't drinking in front of the TV. True, right? That's because that boundary is about as weak as a line drawn in water. There is no action defined on my part either. He found the loophole and there was nothing I could do about.
AFTER coming here and understanding that a boundary belongs to me and has to be upheld by action on my part, I told him I will not be treated poorly or be made to feel uncomfortable by him and will not be around when this happens. He admitted that he acts like a jerk sometimes when he drinks. I made no comment to that. He asked if I was telling him to stop drinking. I told him, again, that I will not be around if i feel he is treating me poorly or if I feel uncomfortable around him. That's my boundary and my action all in one.
I have learned not to tell him how to act, how to be, or what to do. I told him what my boundary is and what the result will be if that boundary is crossed. I made no declaration that I will move out. I made no declaration that I will kick him out somehow. I only said I would not be around. It is up to me to decide how far I away I need to go. If just leaving the room is sufficient, I do that. If leaving the house is required, I do that. If leaving permanently becomes more urgent, I will do so sooner. I say that last part because my goal is to separate from him so I do not have to enforce such a boundary every day of my life. These days, I believe that I'm worth being treated well every day.
The result of this has been a variety of actions on his part all in an effort to test this boundary. He has discovered it's not where, when, how much, or why he drinks that I care about. It's how he treats me. Finally, he has no loophole! He has admitted to being very sad that I am not around much and neither are all the pets (they figured out the boundary and seem to be content to stay away from him, too). He has admitted that it's the beer that causes him to act the way he does. He has tried to moderate his drinking to try to improve things but that didn't last long at all. He tried to negotiate the boundary by announcing he wouldn't drink on Sundays so we could spend time together. When he acted horrible by lunch the first Sunday and I stayed away, he figured out I'm serious about it not being about beer.
Since he has been unable to crack this boundary his only recourse has been to deny the problem. He now tells me that he drinks and acts like a jerk because I and the pets don't spend any time with him, and we are the cause of his behavior.
The boundary remains, and I am so much better for it.
Good luck to you.
Alice
Sometimes I find if I am not upholding the boundaries I have set it is because they are too vague or I am ill prepared to uphold them. To test this, I often look at it from my ABF's hair-splitting mentality.
I USED to tell my ABF that I didn't like when he drank all day Sunday in front of the TV and acted like a jerk anytime I tried to go in there to watch TV or whatever. In response to this, he started drinking all day on the front porch. He would act like a jerk every time he came in the house to use the bathroom or get more beer out of the fridge. When I complained, he reminded me that he wasn't drinking in front of the TV. True, right? That's because that boundary is about as weak as a line drawn in water. There is no action defined on my part either. He found the loophole and there was nothing I could do about.
AFTER coming here and understanding that a boundary belongs to me and has to be upheld by action on my part, I told him I will not be treated poorly or be made to feel uncomfortable by him and will not be around when this happens. He admitted that he acts like a jerk sometimes when he drinks. I made no comment to that. He asked if I was telling him to stop drinking. I told him, again, that I will not be around if i feel he is treating me poorly or if I feel uncomfortable around him. That's my boundary and my action all in one.
I have learned not to tell him how to act, how to be, or what to do. I told him what my boundary is and what the result will be if that boundary is crossed. I made no declaration that I will move out. I made no declaration that I will kick him out somehow. I only said I would not be around. It is up to me to decide how far I away I need to go. If just leaving the room is sufficient, I do that. If leaving the house is required, I do that. If leaving permanently becomes more urgent, I will do so sooner. I say that last part because my goal is to separate from him so I do not have to enforce such a boundary every day of my life. These days, I believe that I'm worth being treated well every day.
The result of this has been a variety of actions on his part all in an effort to test this boundary. He has discovered it's not where, when, how much, or why he drinks that I care about. It's how he treats me. Finally, he has no loophole! He has admitted to being very sad that I am not around much and neither are all the pets (they figured out the boundary and seem to be content to stay away from him, too). He has admitted that it's the beer that causes him to act the way he does. He has tried to moderate his drinking to try to improve things but that didn't last long at all. He tried to negotiate the boundary by announcing he wouldn't drink on Sundays so we could spend time together. When he acted horrible by lunch the first Sunday and I stayed away, he figured out I'm serious about it not being about beer.
Since he has been unable to crack this boundary his only recourse has been to deny the problem. He now tells me that he drinks and acts like a jerk because I and the pets don't spend any time with him, and we are the cause of his behavior.
The boundary remains, and I am so much better for it.
Good luck to you.
Alice
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by whyamistaying
My rule is no beer in the house or he is kicked out. I'm reading about boundaries. If I find empty beer cans hidden do I confront him or do I just ignore it?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Posts: 2,136
Originally Posted by whyamistaying
his actions tell me he doesn't give a flip about the family or what he has put us through...beer comes first. My actions show I am not serious enough about him not drinking to actually leave and I suspect he knows it.
Yes, you can bet the farm that he knows you are not serious at this point.
So what do you feel you should do at this time?
once in a . . .
Join Date: May 2004
Location: looking in / looking out
Posts: 1,214
I once threatened my AH (now Recovering) "Don't EVER come home drunk!"
so he didn't - come home that is ------
threats are a way of trying to MAKE them stop and they're not gonna stop until THEY are ready ...
so he didn't - come home that is ------
threats are a way of trying to MAKE them stop and they're not gonna stop until THEY are ready ...
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
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There is no right answer. I personally don't think it matters one way or the other, unless one way or the other feels better to you. It is clear that you don't intend to enforce your boundary - that you are not ready to - and that he does not intend to quit. Personally, I detest being lied to with every cell in my body, and so I take satisfaction in bringing peoples' lies to their attention. That's just me - I'm not recommending anything.
I also understand how it feels to effectively convince yourself that you can't leave. You know that your kids would be better off not living with an alcoholic father. You know that you're not getting any younger, and that with every year you tolerate this, the fear and resistance only get greater. You know that he will continue to eat up your financial resources with DUIs and failed rehabs. You know all these things -- but your heart isn't ready yet. I know about that too, and it's okay.
I also understand the deep despair that can bring, and given the chance to live my life over, I would've chosen scary action over deep despair. The former is over soon, as you realize that your fears were unfounded, that you are stronger and healthier once that alcoholism stress is removed, and that there's a whole life out there full of possibility for you. (That has been the case with the majority of people we've met on this board who've chosen to leave a chronic alcoholic situation)
The latter gets into your bones and drags your life down into a pit of debt, guilt, anger, and wrecked self esteem that takes a long time to recover from. That was my experience, and has been the experience of many here.
But you will take action when you're ready, and not a moment before. For now, I'd suggest maybe working on YOU - through counseling and Al-Anon meetings - to help you survive the day-to-day lies and disloyalty until you're ready to say no to it.
Just my personal opinion, based on my own experiences.
Wishing you well,
GL
I also understand how it feels to effectively convince yourself that you can't leave. You know that your kids would be better off not living with an alcoholic father. You know that you're not getting any younger, and that with every year you tolerate this, the fear and resistance only get greater. You know that he will continue to eat up your financial resources with DUIs and failed rehabs. You know all these things -- but your heart isn't ready yet. I know about that too, and it's okay.
I also understand the deep despair that can bring, and given the chance to live my life over, I would've chosen scary action over deep despair. The former is over soon, as you realize that your fears were unfounded, that you are stronger and healthier once that alcoholism stress is removed, and that there's a whole life out there full of possibility for you. (That has been the case with the majority of people we've met on this board who've chosen to leave a chronic alcoholic situation)
The latter gets into your bones and drags your life down into a pit of debt, guilt, anger, and wrecked self esteem that takes a long time to recover from. That was my experience, and has been the experience of many here.
But you will take action when you're ready, and not a moment before. For now, I'd suggest maybe working on YOU - through counseling and Al-Anon meetings - to help you survive the day-to-day lies and disloyalty until you're ready to say no to it.
Just my personal opinion, based on my own experiences.
Wishing you well,
GL
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by prodigal
You are ABSOLUTELY, TOTALLY, AND UNDENIABLY correct. And I'm not saying that to be a smart azz. You are being completely honest.
Yes, you can bet the farm that he knows you are not serious at this point.
So what do you feel you should do at this time?
Yes, you can bet the farm that he knows you are not serious at this point.
So what do you feel you should do at this time?
What will I do since I am not ready to file for divorce? I will continue to work on myself. I like the 24 hour plan that someone posted about...wake up and decide if this is the day I am leaving or staying. I do believe that I will get to where I am ready to divorce him. I do feel it is a process at least for me that is and I am getting closer to knowing that this is where our marriage will end.
It is a hard to admit that. First, I feel like a failure to admit that I couldn't make my marriage work. Second, I feel like to explain to my daughter why her daddy doesn't live with us (when I go through with the divorce) will break her heart. But I know I am not breaking it, he is. Those are just the thoughts that run through my mind. There are a ton other third, fourth, ect. But I do believe when I ready there will be looking back and I won't shed a tear.
Su**endering...
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 102
Just to play devil's advocate, here's what your addict hears when you say "Don't bring beer in the house or you're out":
"Ok, can't bring beer in the house. She didn't say stop drinking. I'm going drinking with my buddies." And there are no repercussions. He can still come home and sleep in the house. He can walk over your rules by hiding the beer too, since you conveniently "overlook" that small transgression. He probably finagles sex whenever he wants it. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for his child.
Dude's getting a free ride.
And what are you getting out of this deal? Maintaining the illusion of a marriage? Lots of heartache and hurt, as evidenced by your posts here? Distrust of yourself (probably hatred too, but I don't recall if you've said that yet).
I'm not weighing in on whether you should stay or go. But if you're going to establish boundaries meant to help you maintain a healthy relationship with your A, then make good ones, and exercise them if the situation calls for it.
Trust me, I fudged boundaries for the last 6 years and have ended up pretty much despising myself, and now I'm kicking myself for not standing up for me in the midst of escalating relapse. I don't know what would have happened to my relationship had I maintained healthy boundaries when I set them years ago. But I do know that I wouldn't be in the mess I'm in right now.
I know...its REALLY hard to actually take the step we set down when we do honestly love our As. Today, I know, though, that if it does come to pass that I have to take a stand, I will do it in love, and for myself. I do not want to be where I am today, and I'm working hard to climb out of this pit.
"Ok, can't bring beer in the house. She didn't say stop drinking. I'm going drinking with my buddies." And there are no repercussions. He can still come home and sleep in the house. He can walk over your rules by hiding the beer too, since you conveniently "overlook" that small transgression. He probably finagles sex whenever he wants it. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for his child.
Dude's getting a free ride.
And what are you getting out of this deal? Maintaining the illusion of a marriage? Lots of heartache and hurt, as evidenced by your posts here? Distrust of yourself (probably hatred too, but I don't recall if you've said that yet).
I'm not weighing in on whether you should stay or go. But if you're going to establish boundaries meant to help you maintain a healthy relationship with your A, then make good ones, and exercise them if the situation calls for it.
Trust me, I fudged boundaries for the last 6 years and have ended up pretty much despising myself, and now I'm kicking myself for not standing up for me in the midst of escalating relapse. I don't know what would have happened to my relationship had I maintained healthy boundaries when I set them years ago. But I do know that I wouldn't be in the mess I'm in right now.
I know...its REALLY hard to actually take the step we set down when we do honestly love our As. Today, I know, though, that if it does come to pass that I have to take a stand, I will do it in love, and for myself. I do not want to be where I am today, and I'm working hard to climb out of this pit.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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IMO its more than okay that you are not ready to make the decision to leave at this point. I wasn't ready when I first came here. The best I was able to do was leave that decision up to my higher power and work with what I could manage. I decided that my path would become more clear as I went along and it has.
Start with reassessing your boundaries. Redefine them. It's okay to make changes when something isn't working, and I have realized that when boundaries are clear for you they will be for him without saying a word directly about them. The boundary of not drinking in the house was made some time ago and obviously hasn't been useful to you. time to tweek that one. Boundaries should strengthen you and bring you stability.
Move on to things YOU can do to make daily living in your situation less of a rollercoaster to give you some peace and breathing room. Detaching yourself from his drinking and his attempts to hide that will go a long way towards easing your emotions.
You are taking a long journey and just getting your first steps going. Be patient and kind to yourself.
Best wishes.
Alice
Start with reassessing your boundaries. Redefine them. It's okay to make changes when something isn't working, and I have realized that when boundaries are clear for you they will be for him without saying a word directly about them. The boundary of not drinking in the house was made some time ago and obviously hasn't been useful to you. time to tweek that one. Boundaries should strengthen you and bring you stability.
Move on to things YOU can do to make daily living in your situation less of a rollercoaster to give you some peace and breathing room. Detaching yourself from his drinking and his attempts to hide that will go a long way towards easing your emotions.
You are taking a long journey and just getting your first steps going. Be patient and kind to yourself.
Best wishes.
Alice
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
It is progress not perfection!
You are always free to change your mind. Change your boundaries.
My A interpretted my saying: "I don't want to be around you when you have been drinking" to mean "Don't drink in the house." What I meant was that I would be in another part of the house or somewhere else if he was at home and drinking or if he was home after drinking with friends. After a heated discussion where he was blaming me for his coming home later and later because he couldn't drink in the home, I explained that he could drink in his own home all he wanted. I just wasn't going to sit on the couch and watch. I spent a lot of time here at SR those nights that he was drinking!!
I also realized later, that my boundary of don't come home drunk was not effective. I forgot that (we) alcoholics never admit to being drunk, just feeling a little relaxed!! So he continued to drink to excess with friends and then come home and pass out on the couch. I learned to leave him on the couch and let him wake up during the middle of the night to find his way to bed, or not.
Keep your focus on your needs, what you need to do to get through the next five minutes or five hours. Staying married is your current choice. Roll with it. Do the things you are responsible for in your home, let him do his.
Remember, confronting an alcoholic about their behavior in an effort to get them to see what they are doing to the family and the relationship is like going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread. You're still empty handed.
Peace to you!
You are always free to change your mind. Change your boundaries.
My A interpretted my saying: "I don't want to be around you when you have been drinking" to mean "Don't drink in the house." What I meant was that I would be in another part of the house or somewhere else if he was at home and drinking or if he was home after drinking with friends. After a heated discussion where he was blaming me for his coming home later and later because he couldn't drink in the home, I explained that he could drink in his own home all he wanted. I just wasn't going to sit on the couch and watch. I spent a lot of time here at SR those nights that he was drinking!!
I also realized later, that my boundary of don't come home drunk was not effective. I forgot that (we) alcoholics never admit to being drunk, just feeling a little relaxed!! So he continued to drink to excess with friends and then come home and pass out on the couch. I learned to leave him on the couch and let him wake up during the middle of the night to find his way to bed, or not.
Keep your focus on your needs, what you need to do to get through the next five minutes or five hours. Staying married is your current choice. Roll with it. Do the things you are responsible for in your home, let him do his.
Remember, confronting an alcoholic about their behavior in an effort to get them to see what they are doing to the family and the relationship is like going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread. You're still empty handed.
Peace to you!
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