LaTeeDa

One of the things that helped me tremendously was when my therapist suggested that there was very little difference between the alcoholic and the codependent. Her exact words were "they are simply two different branches on the same tree."

Now, as a self-righteous, superior codependent, I was deeply offended by that suggestion. No way was I 'like him.' I was soooooo much better, stronger, more responsible, and above all RIGHT, while he was wrong.

But, the more I learned about my 'condition,' the more parallels I began to see. And the more it made sense that addicts and codependents are attracted to each other like opposite magnets. How many times have I read on this board how it is 'a love like no other,' or a deep attraction 'unlike anything I've ever felt before?' That's how it was with me and my husband, too.

We truly were two different branches of the same tree. The causes, reasons, etc. are different, but the traits are still the same.

L

DesertEyes

The way it works for me is that my "co-dependency" is an addiction to _fantasy_.

I had this fantasy about how I wanted my marriage to be, and what kind of woman would fit in this fantasy. I happened to find a woman who was pretty close, but not perfect. As the years went by and life threw us some curves the fantasy wasn't quite keeping up with reality. Eventually, the woman just didn't fit at all, and the whole house of cards came crashing down.

For me, denial is just a fancy word for arrogance. I was too arrogant to admit that I did not have the power to convince her of the error of her ways. The "bottom" that I had to hit was just _humility_.

Step one of the various programs of recovery all start with "Admitted we were powerless ...." To admit powerlessness is just a long way of saying I became humble.

There's an easy way to determine if I suffer from a given character defect. Such as arrogance. It comes from an old slogan that says "If you spot it, you got it", and originated in the Bible saying about straws and beams in peoples eyes. Basically, I can see a character defect in another person _exceptionally_ well if I happen to have the same character defect in myself.

My sponsor told me to got to a meeting and see how many people suffered from arrogance. I was of the opinion that all of them did. Clearly, I suffered from it.

Another cute saying I've heard in the rooms is that if were to take _all_ the 12 step programs, and I believe there's over 100 of them, we could fit them all very comfortably into just _one_ program called "Arrogance Anonymous". Being a member of AA, Al-anon, ACoA, ISA and OA-anon I can see it would work.

1. Admitted we were powerless over our Arrogance ....

Mike

MeHandle

Lots of good stuff, lots of difference to perspective. Some things I agree with the process but not the theory. So I just wanted to add in 2 thoughts I had while reading:

Sometimes it is not denial but something we haven't recognized. There can be a number of reasons for non recognition. Sometimes denial, sometimes maturity or lack there of, sometimes experience, sometimes a lack in critical thinking, sometimes information not being revealed. Denial and non recognition are not equal.


Some people can remain healthy overall in dysfunctional situation, but with progression hitting a certain level they can't maintain in it without getting out of a surrounding situation. It is because they are healthy they recognize this before they break into insanity under the stress.

Because of my worldview i also have to give credit to God that their are times he gives the protection and wisdom beyond the natural ability, he provides it to function in dysfuctional homes.
If it couldn't be done, that one can live among dysfunction, then there wouldn't be people running half way homes and similar living homes. :-)

They recognize their ability to fall into insane behavior before it becomes a pattern.

MeHandle

Hey Desert Eyes, :-)

You said:
[/QUOTE]There's an easy way to determine if I suffer from a given character defect. Such as arrogance. It comes from an old slogan that says "If you spot it, you got it", and originated in the Bible saying about straws and beams in peoples eyes. Basically, I can see a character defect in another person _exceptionally_ well if I happen to have the same character defect in myself.[/QUOTE]

This happens to be something me and Ago just touched on recently in another thread.

Ago said:

[/QUOTE]One of the more unfortunate aspects of going into recovery, is whenever I point the finger of blame at someone else, I am always guilty of that very same behavior. If you spot it, you got it.[/QUOTE]

I said:
[/QUOTE]I very much disagree with Ago's above statement that if you spot it you got it. I believe this philosophy is over reaching. I do agree that it is possible that if you spot it it might be because you got it and therefore recognize it, but it is not absolute. Nevertheless, it is always good to evaluate if you might be pointing a finger where one is actually pointed back at you.

I think it is wise to apply the theory that we should take the plank out of our own eye before we take the speck from someone else's instead of accepting the philosophy that if you spot it you got it.[/QUOTE]

In the apologetic world of argument and defense we would call this a counterfeit: Something that appears to be the genuine thing but is in some small way distorted from the original and therefore is misleading and could be dangerous.

As you pointed out it originated from the biblical saying.

If I spot a con it doesn't mean I am a con. It means that I can think like a con and therefore have the ability to recognize that someone is attempting to con me. I could give hundreds of examples but I believe this will suffice to make my point.

My "12 step Relationally Affected" group leader at our church views her co-dependent behavior as related to an addiction to fantasy . SHe wouldn't say that she is addicted to a person. Was nice to hear this perspective from someone elses view point too.

love tammy

Ago

That's my observation as well

It's not uncommon to see someone get sober, work the steps, then all you have left is a "walking control freak", I mean just bristling with codependent attributes, which is why many of us eventually go to al-anon or therapy.

"The Program" does address that but many miss it frankly.

I remember years ago being told, "scratch an alcoholic, find a codependent" and being offended by that, I mean I just wanted to drink and fornicate, nothing too complicated, and finding out years later that that statement was true in my case, I just needed to "add an alcoholic" (in this case my family members)

But I think many alcoholics would be offended to be told that, as would many codependents to be told, "they are simply two different branches on the same tree. Now, as a self-righteous, superior codependent, I was deeply offended by that suggestion. No way was I 'like him.' I was soooooo much better, stronger, more responsible, and above all RIGHT, while he was wrong."

It's hell bein both LOL

Still Waters

I agree MeHandle. 100%.