newbie--at decision time
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: the desert
Posts: 3
newbie--at decision time
Hi all,
I have just in the past week come to terms with the fact that my DH is an A. His father is a classic alcoholic and has been drunk more often than not since my AH's childhood. AH and I have been married for nearly 7 years and during this time we have had many problems, several of which stem from deceptiveness on his part resulting in a lack of trust on my part. Until very recently though, I always thought of his problems as being that of an adult child of an alcoholic. While he has clearly always had addictive tendencies, he has mostly held his drinking in check until the past 6 months-year. Even now, it seems not that bad, especially as compared to many other's stories. I think that is hang-up number one for me--it's not like he's losing his job, stumbling in late for dinner drunk, abusing any of us, etc. Instead, he drinks late at night and alone, and he hides his liquor from me (all of which I know are huge red flags), but it's not having any tangible effects on day-to-day life...yet. We have two young children (this is hang-up number two--I don't want them to grow up in a divorced family, but of course this path seems to be leading nowhere good either), and AH has grown especially distant from our 5 y/o girl.
After recently discovering that he was drinking again/still, I told him that I thought he should go away for the weekend and do some thinking about his priorities, etc. He did not care for this idea. So I told him that he at least needed to think about what his plan was of how he was going to address this and let me know, because if he wasn't willing to be accountable to me, he needed to find someone he could be accountable to. (note: this is when I was thinking of his problem as just excessive drinking with some strange behaviors like the hiding, rather than true alcoholism). He got irritated and told me just to leave him alone about it, that he had it under control, and that his plan was to just stop drinking. Well, just a few days later I found a receipt with liquor on it again. (so trying--or saying he's trying--to quit, and quickly failing...another red flag).
So this past week, I finally decided it was time to get some serious help. I went and saw a therapist and she was the one who really helped me to see that he is truly an alcoholic. She encouraged me to do some reading about alcoholism and to attend al-anon. I am doing both. I went to my first meeting and though it was very small, it was still helpful. I look forward to going to a more well-attended meeting next week.
Anyway, all this blabbering is to say that I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. I am in graduate school with 2 young kids, and oh yeah did I mention that we moved a thousand miles from all family and friends for my graduate program? So no family nearby. We've been here a couple of years now so I have some friends, but no long-term ones which are so helpful in times of crisis. But, really that's not what's stopping me from moving out. AH isn't really all that much help anyway, so it's not like much would change in that regard. I worry about screwing up our kids, whichever way I choose. I worry about being a bad Christian...I know that must sound ridiculous. But I have been brought up so conservatively, told repeated how God hates divorce, etc. I just don't want to screw up that decision too when I feel like I've already made so many bad choices. And, I'll admit also that I worry about what will happen to AH if I leave. He has almost no friends here, certainly no one that he would open up to. He has few resources, and while he could always go back to our hometown and wouldn't have to truly face homelessness, that would mean very infrequent visits with our kids. And he really is a "good guy" and most of the time a pretty good daddy. Just a daddy who makes horrible choices, repeatedly and has seemingly no self-control. And if he's not drinking, he's frittering away our money on ebay buying binges. Ugh...did I mention I'm a grad student? (which means that $ is not exactly in excess here?)
I'm sorry this post probably makes very little sense, but I just have to get it out there and connect with someone who understands. In browsing this board earlier I saw a book recommended called Too good to leave, too bad to stay, and that is exactly what I feel like is the story of my life right now. I'm planning to talk to him again about these issues sometime soon and let him know one final time that I am not okay with the drinking, the lying, the hiding, etc and encourage him to seek help. If he is unwilling to seek help, I am pretty sure I will leave almost immediately. I am uncertain on how to phrase all of this with him. On one hand, I am in reality giving him an ultimatum, but on the other hand, I don't want him to go to recovery just for me, because I know it has almost no chance of "sticking" if the motivation does not come from within him. I clearly just don't know what to do...or maybe I do, but I am scared.
Any insight, suggestions, etc are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
azmama
I have just in the past week come to terms with the fact that my DH is an A. His father is a classic alcoholic and has been drunk more often than not since my AH's childhood. AH and I have been married for nearly 7 years and during this time we have had many problems, several of which stem from deceptiveness on his part resulting in a lack of trust on my part. Until very recently though, I always thought of his problems as being that of an adult child of an alcoholic. While he has clearly always had addictive tendencies, he has mostly held his drinking in check until the past 6 months-year. Even now, it seems not that bad, especially as compared to many other's stories. I think that is hang-up number one for me--it's not like he's losing his job, stumbling in late for dinner drunk, abusing any of us, etc. Instead, he drinks late at night and alone, and he hides his liquor from me (all of which I know are huge red flags), but it's not having any tangible effects on day-to-day life...yet. We have two young children (this is hang-up number two--I don't want them to grow up in a divorced family, but of course this path seems to be leading nowhere good either), and AH has grown especially distant from our 5 y/o girl.
After recently discovering that he was drinking again/still, I told him that I thought he should go away for the weekend and do some thinking about his priorities, etc. He did not care for this idea. So I told him that he at least needed to think about what his plan was of how he was going to address this and let me know, because if he wasn't willing to be accountable to me, he needed to find someone he could be accountable to. (note: this is when I was thinking of his problem as just excessive drinking with some strange behaviors like the hiding, rather than true alcoholism). He got irritated and told me just to leave him alone about it, that he had it under control, and that his plan was to just stop drinking. Well, just a few days later I found a receipt with liquor on it again. (so trying--or saying he's trying--to quit, and quickly failing...another red flag).
So this past week, I finally decided it was time to get some serious help. I went and saw a therapist and she was the one who really helped me to see that he is truly an alcoholic. She encouraged me to do some reading about alcoholism and to attend al-anon. I am doing both. I went to my first meeting and though it was very small, it was still helpful. I look forward to going to a more well-attended meeting next week.
Anyway, all this blabbering is to say that I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. I am in graduate school with 2 young kids, and oh yeah did I mention that we moved a thousand miles from all family and friends for my graduate program? So no family nearby. We've been here a couple of years now so I have some friends, but no long-term ones which are so helpful in times of crisis. But, really that's not what's stopping me from moving out. AH isn't really all that much help anyway, so it's not like much would change in that regard. I worry about screwing up our kids, whichever way I choose. I worry about being a bad Christian...I know that must sound ridiculous. But I have been brought up so conservatively, told repeated how God hates divorce, etc. I just don't want to screw up that decision too when I feel like I've already made so many bad choices. And, I'll admit also that I worry about what will happen to AH if I leave. He has almost no friends here, certainly no one that he would open up to. He has few resources, and while he could always go back to our hometown and wouldn't have to truly face homelessness, that would mean very infrequent visits with our kids. And he really is a "good guy" and most of the time a pretty good daddy. Just a daddy who makes horrible choices, repeatedly and has seemingly no self-control. And if he's not drinking, he's frittering away our money on ebay buying binges. Ugh...did I mention I'm a grad student? (which means that $ is not exactly in excess here?)
I'm sorry this post probably makes very little sense, but I just have to get it out there and connect with someone who understands. In browsing this board earlier I saw a book recommended called Too good to leave, too bad to stay, and that is exactly what I feel like is the story of my life right now. I'm planning to talk to him again about these issues sometime soon and let him know one final time that I am not okay with the drinking, the lying, the hiding, etc and encourage him to seek help. If he is unwilling to seek help, I am pretty sure I will leave almost immediately. I am uncertain on how to phrase all of this with him. On one hand, I am in reality giving him an ultimatum, but on the other hand, I don't want him to go to recovery just for me, because I know it has almost no chance of "sticking" if the motivation does not come from within him. I clearly just don't know what to do...or maybe I do, but I am scared.
Any insight, suggestions, etc are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
azmama
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
Hi! Welcome!!!
You have found a great place for support. Many of us here have been through what you are going through!
I was compelled by some of the same things you are. You are wondering is it bad enough to leave? That choice is up to you. But I can tell you that it will only get worse. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Things will get worse unless he gets treatment. I remember when I first started posting here and someone told me that. I couldn't imagine how they could get worse or that they would, BUT they did! You just need to decide if you want to have a front row seat to it or not?
You are on the right track al-anon, counceling and educating myself about the disease have helped me soooo much!
I have had the same thoughts about being a "bad Christian" also. My councelor has helped me a lot in this area. She has recommended some books. I will find the titles and post them in a bit.
As for being in school with 2 young children, you can do it! Most colleges have housing for "families" that have cheap rent. You should be able to qualify for some grants and use some of that money to help.
Does your program require a masters degree? or a bachelors? Another option would be to put grad school on hold for a bit and work in your field of study and save up money and finish grad. school then.
((((()))))) Be gentle with yourself!
You have found a great place for support. Many of us here have been through what you are going through!
I was compelled by some of the same things you are. You are wondering is it bad enough to leave? That choice is up to you. But I can tell you that it will only get worse. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Things will get worse unless he gets treatment. I remember when I first started posting here and someone told me that. I couldn't imagine how they could get worse or that they would, BUT they did! You just need to decide if you want to have a front row seat to it or not?
You are on the right track al-anon, counceling and educating myself about the disease have helped me soooo much!
I have had the same thoughts about being a "bad Christian" also. My councelor has helped me a lot in this area. She has recommended some books. I will find the titles and post them in a bit.
As for being in school with 2 young children, you can do it! Most colleges have housing for "families" that have cheap rent. You should be able to qualify for some grants and use some of that money to help.
Does your program require a masters degree? or a bachelors? Another option would be to put grad school on hold for a bit and work in your field of study and save up money and finish grad. school then.
((((()))))) Be gentle with yourself!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: the desert
Posts: 3
Thanks, Daisy for the reply. I am trying to get used to the idea that I have to assume that he will not change, or if he does it will only be for the worse and base my decisions off of that. With that understanding, it doesn't make any sense to sit around and wait for it to get worse, of course, but looking at it right now (as an outsider would see it especially), I'm sure it seems like no big deal.
I will definitely be interested in checking out the books re: being a "bad Christian". I am also sort of stuck because I am hesitant to "out" my AH. For instance, I could talk with our pastor, but then, well he would know. Same goes for other trusted friends who I would normally look to for spiritual support/guidance. I don't know if these are valid worries or not.
With school, I have my MS in hand. I am 2 years into a PhD program post masters and have 2 years to go (maybe 3, but I'm pushing hard for 2). I'm in the social sciences where my MS is basically worthless earning potential wise, so I really just need to wrap this up. Unfortunately there aren't many need based grants available to grads, but I can at least get child care subsidy and the like which helps a ton.
Anyway, thanks so much for your post. I look forward to reading more.
I will definitely be interested in checking out the books re: being a "bad Christian". I am also sort of stuck because I am hesitant to "out" my AH. For instance, I could talk with our pastor, but then, well he would know. Same goes for other trusted friends who I would normally look to for spiritual support/guidance. I don't know if these are valid worries or not.
With school, I have my MS in hand. I am 2 years into a PhD program post masters and have 2 years to go (maybe 3, but I'm pushing hard for 2). I'm in the social sciences where my MS is basically worthless earning potential wise, so I really just need to wrap this up. Unfortunately there aren't many need based grants available to grads, but I can at least get child care subsidy and the like which helps a ton.
Anyway, thanks so much for your post. I look forward to reading more.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 60
Welcome Azmama. I'm glad that you found us but very sorry for the reason. Please ready the stickies at the top. They are really very helpful in learning to deal with alcoholism.
It is a progressive disease and many people are unable or unwilling to stop until they reach rock bottom. Even at that point many do not stop.
When I first started recognizing that there was a problem with my XABF's drinking I too thought it wasn't really that bad. He was very high functioning. But it did get much worse over the next two years.
Mine also hid the drinking from me. I was horrified when I opened the cabinets over the refrigerator one day and found the stash of empty bottles he'd been hiding. He'd made sure to put them in a place I rarely went -I'm only 5'4 so I have a hard time with high cabinets lol.
Once I caught on and was really able to recognize the signs of his drinking in his speech patterns and behavior I was shocked at how often he was drinking.
My best advice is to think about the life you want for yourself and your children. If he's become distant with your daughter then your children are already beginning to be affected by this. They will grow up to believe this is normal and acceptable behavior.
Please keep reading and keep posting. This is a wonderful place with many wise and experienced people who understand.
It is a progressive disease and many people are unable or unwilling to stop until they reach rock bottom. Even at that point many do not stop.
When I first started recognizing that there was a problem with my XABF's drinking I too thought it wasn't really that bad. He was very high functioning. But it did get much worse over the next two years.
Mine also hid the drinking from me. I was horrified when I opened the cabinets over the refrigerator one day and found the stash of empty bottles he'd been hiding. He'd made sure to put them in a place I rarely went -I'm only 5'4 so I have a hard time with high cabinets lol.
Once I caught on and was really able to recognize the signs of his drinking in his speech patterns and behavior I was shocked at how often he was drinking.
My best advice is to think about the life you want for yourself and your children. If he's become distant with your daughter then your children are already beginning to be affected by this. They will grow up to believe this is normal and acceptable behavior.
Please keep reading and keep posting. This is a wonderful place with many wise and experienced people who understand.
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
I know for myself that I felt much better when it was no longer a "secret". I no longer had to bear this burden on my own. I think your pastor would be a "safe" person to tell. He will also be able to coucel you accordingly.
okay...off to find the book titles
okay...off to find the book titles
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Dear axmama, if there is anyone I would actually suggest to go read my history of posts here it would be you. When you want to follow someone go to their page,just click on their post picture , then when on their page go into statistics and you can follow what ever posts they have posted. I am 41, 4 kids between 15 and 21, I am a christian and would be 'labeled' under conservative/evangelical. I asked for a divorce after 21 years of marriage. i asked for the divorce 9 months ago.
azmama, I posted this yesterday but I am copying here because I don't want you to miss it. Please, please read this book. Please!
This book is called NOT UNDER BONDAGE, Biblical Divorce for Abuse, Adultery & Desertion . It is written by a woman survivor of domestic abuse.
Barbara Roberts is targeting a Christian audience, however the book crosses over in principle to all people. The reason she targets a Christian audience is for the specifics of the issues the Christian deals with on whether they are free to divorce because of how the church has interpreted it most often. It challenges those who give guidence or support to others on this issue. And the challenge is that the church has most often interpreted it wrong. Also, it will help the person who feels they are being held in a marriage to an alcoholic/ abandonment/domestic abuser because they are struggling with the usual stuff like guilt ,blame, fear, hope, marriage vows and so on.
As I have read many of our stories on this list we mention abuse and/or we call it the alcoholic behavior. We really don't say straight out that we have or are suffering under abandonment/domestic abuse by the active alcohol abuser and/or alcoholic. This book is a very good read to see the distinction. It points out clearly that it is not just physical. Men will relate to this book well too.
You can buy the book on Amazon.com and it will probably get to you faster and cheaper. However, it is a better support for her if you order it directly off her website (google 'not under bondage'). She lives in Australia. She doesn't charge for the shipping. I ordered 2, one for me and one to pass for sharing. My kids will all read this book, they are 15 and over.
Also , I guess it is a good time to mention that I know that I also need to write a book. Her book does a great job , however there is something specific to address to the church as to understanding life with an alcohol and /or substance abuse partner plus their domestic abuse. Since she address the biblical argument I would just further elaborate the principles but i want the weight of the book to be the personal testimony so as to draw the actual picture that one has been abused, deserted and has a constant 3rd party in their marriage. I want the church to have to struggle with there "limbo" theological stand, at best, on this issue. I will be asking for help with this in the near future from people who would be able to volunteer from this list.
The title speaks her heart as the writer: NOT UNDER BONDAGE
She wants the abused to know they are not under bondage and free to choose divorce and remarriage.
This is her explanation of the cover of her book, I won't even need to quote the book to reveal the perspective inside, "about the cover" does this:
"The cover has been chosen because it conveys the experiences of being subject to domestic abuse, the scriptural dilemmas of the Christian victim, and the answers to those dilemmas that this books seeks to provide.
The photograph shows an institutional corridor, such as you might find in a jail or a psychiatric hospital. Although the colours are somewhat warm, the place is hard and impersonal.
The image is rotated 90 degrees which represents the confusion a victim feels: victims often think they are going crazy.
The right side of the image shows the walls, windows and ceiling of the corridor, the left side shows the reflection in the polished floor. The fuzzy image on the left represents how disparate explanations about the Bible's teaching on divorce and remarriage have muddled many people's thinking.
The white cage-like box superimposed on the photograph could suggest the victim who feels entrapped by the perpetrator and by scriptural interpretations.
The white angular lines suggest the need to examine faulty scriptural interpretions, perhaps from unexpected angles, in order to reach the light shining from the end of the corridor, where things are clear, up is up, down is down and false guilt is banished."
azmama, I posted this yesterday but I am copying here because I don't want you to miss it. Please, please read this book. Please!
This book is called NOT UNDER BONDAGE, Biblical Divorce for Abuse, Adultery & Desertion . It is written by a woman survivor of domestic abuse.
Barbara Roberts is targeting a Christian audience, however the book crosses over in principle to all people. The reason she targets a Christian audience is for the specifics of the issues the Christian deals with on whether they are free to divorce because of how the church has interpreted it most often. It challenges those who give guidence or support to others on this issue. And the challenge is that the church has most often interpreted it wrong. Also, it will help the person who feels they are being held in a marriage to an alcoholic/ abandonment/domestic abuser because they are struggling with the usual stuff like guilt ,blame, fear, hope, marriage vows and so on.
As I have read many of our stories on this list we mention abuse and/or we call it the alcoholic behavior. We really don't say straight out that we have or are suffering under abandonment/domestic abuse by the active alcohol abuser and/or alcoholic. This book is a very good read to see the distinction. It points out clearly that it is not just physical. Men will relate to this book well too.
You can buy the book on Amazon.com and it will probably get to you faster and cheaper. However, it is a better support for her if you order it directly off her website (google 'not under bondage'). She lives in Australia. She doesn't charge for the shipping. I ordered 2, one for me and one to pass for sharing. My kids will all read this book, they are 15 and over.
Also , I guess it is a good time to mention that I know that I also need to write a book. Her book does a great job , however there is something specific to address to the church as to understanding life with an alcohol and /or substance abuse partner plus their domestic abuse. Since she address the biblical argument I would just further elaborate the principles but i want the weight of the book to be the personal testimony so as to draw the actual picture that one has been abused, deserted and has a constant 3rd party in their marriage. I want the church to have to struggle with there "limbo" theological stand, at best, on this issue. I will be asking for help with this in the near future from people who would be able to volunteer from this list.
The title speaks her heart as the writer: NOT UNDER BONDAGE
She wants the abused to know they are not under bondage and free to choose divorce and remarriage.
This is her explanation of the cover of her book, I won't even need to quote the book to reveal the perspective inside, "about the cover" does this:
"The cover has been chosen because it conveys the experiences of being subject to domestic abuse, the scriptural dilemmas of the Christian victim, and the answers to those dilemmas that this books seeks to provide.
The photograph shows an institutional corridor, such as you might find in a jail or a psychiatric hospital. Although the colours are somewhat warm, the place is hard and impersonal.
The image is rotated 90 degrees which represents the confusion a victim feels: victims often think they are going crazy.
The right side of the image shows the walls, windows and ceiling of the corridor, the left side shows the reflection in the polished floor. The fuzzy image on the left represents how disparate explanations about the Bible's teaching on divorce and remarriage have muddled many people's thinking.
The white cage-like box superimposed on the photograph could suggest the victim who feels entrapped by the perpetrator and by scriptural interpretations.
The white angular lines suggest the need to examine faulty scriptural interpretions, perhaps from unexpected angles, in order to reach the light shining from the end of the corridor, where things are clear, up is up, down is down and false guilt is banished."
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi azmama-
i agree that it would be good to start speaking out and getting some support from the people around you. i felt so much better once i started talking about what was going on in my home.
my concern in seeking councel from your pastor, is is he an addiction expert? unless one has lived with an experienced the particular craziness of living with an active addict, it is very tough for them to understand.
i have seen many woman here going to their minister/pastor and their councel being to stick it out, due to religious tenants.
i have a hard time imagining a merciful, loving god that would want you to stay in an abusive situation or a relationship where there is no trust left.
and it does get worse. and as you begin your recovery and begin to establish healthy boundaries with your addict, they freak out and all hell breaks loose.
good luck and keep reading and posting.
naive
i agree that it would be good to start speaking out and getting some support from the people around you. i felt so much better once i started talking about what was going on in my home.
my concern in seeking councel from your pastor, is is he an addiction expert? unless one has lived with an experienced the particular craziness of living with an active addict, it is very tough for them to understand.
i have seen many woman here going to their minister/pastor and their councel being to stick it out, due to religious tenants.
i have a hard time imagining a merciful, loving god that would want you to stay in an abusive situation or a relationship where there is no trust left.
and it does get worse. and as you begin your recovery and begin to establish healthy boundaries with your addict, they freak out and all hell breaks loose.
good luck and keep reading and posting.
naive
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Welcome AZ. You are in the right place.
You wrote "I worry about screwing up our kids."
Here is the reality: The father of your children is an alcoholic. This is their truth and they will be living it for the rest of their lives. He may drink to his death or he may recover.....but any visions you have of your children living a "normal" family life have to be let go. It is never going to happen. You are now a family of addiction.
He sounds nowhere near being ready to give up alcohol. He is protecting his right to drink, and like most addicts, if it comes down to the wire, he will be more willing to lose you and the kids than lose the drug he is in love with.
You may try to float along since he is not "too bad" right now, but you will have to face your realities eventually and either take a stand against active addiction in your family (your family will be completely controlled by it and by him, by the way) or just become as sick and progressively dysfunctional as he is and will be.
So....continue the Al-Anon meetings and continue the counseling for support. If you are isolated without support, the addiction will win.
Your children will be okay as long as you don't pretend that what they see happening didn't really happen. Families in dysfunction are famous for messing up their children's ability to trust that what they see is what is there.
There are many good books on addiction. One is "Reclaim Your Family from Addiction" by Craig Nakken.
Good luck. Glad you found us, AZ.
You wrote "I worry about screwing up our kids."
Here is the reality: The father of your children is an alcoholic. This is their truth and they will be living it for the rest of their lives. He may drink to his death or he may recover.....but any visions you have of your children living a "normal" family life have to be let go. It is never going to happen. You are now a family of addiction.
He sounds nowhere near being ready to give up alcohol. He is protecting his right to drink, and like most addicts, if it comes down to the wire, he will be more willing to lose you and the kids than lose the drug he is in love with.
You may try to float along since he is not "too bad" right now, but you will have to face your realities eventually and either take a stand against active addiction in your family (your family will be completely controlled by it and by him, by the way) or just become as sick and progressively dysfunctional as he is and will be.
So....continue the Al-Anon meetings and continue the counseling for support. If you are isolated without support, the addiction will win.
Your children will be okay as long as you don't pretend that what they see happening didn't really happen. Families in dysfunction are famous for messing up their children's ability to trust that what they see is what is there.
There are many good books on addiction. One is "Reclaim Your Family from Addiction" by Craig Nakken.
Good luck. Glad you found us, AZ.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Welcome AZ 
I think that is hang-up number one for me--it's not like he's losing his job, stumbling in late for dinner drunk, abusing any of us, etc.
It is typical for relations with an alcoholic person, to lower your standards and keep lowering them. I am glad you are very sound and not willing to wait until the job loss, stumbling and abusing starts. The disease is chronic and progressive.
I don't know if these are valid worries or not.
If those are YOUR worries, they are all valid. Our gut feeling is NEVER wrong, please trust it.
AH has grown especially distant from our 5 y/o girl
I am sad for your girl. Once she has daddy alright and all of a sudden daddy gets distant. She may already be learning she did something wrong or is "not enough" to keep his dad's love. Please consider how this is affecting her and protect her, its your job.
And he really is a "good guy" and most of the time a pretty good daddy. Just a daddy who makes horrible choices, repeatedly and has seemingly no self-control. And if he's not drinking, he's frittering away our money on ebay buying binges. Ugh...did I mention I'm a grad student? (which means that $ is not exactly in excess here?)
I see a man that can walk to AA any day and actually start taking responsability for his roles as a husband and father, but decides every minute not to do so. I see a man that instead of caring about money so you do not worry, children are taken care of and there is some room if any of you need anything extra, such as medicines, etc. spends the family money in alcohol. I do not mean to sound harsh, but from what you tell us AZ, I do not see a good man or a good daddy anywhere. I know its difficult but try to see him as who he is now. Not words, not how he was, or how he could be - just his ACTIONS day-to-day.
I agree with naive, your pastor may influence you to stay for the sake of religion. I would vote on Al anon & an individual psychologist or therapist who would have YOUR best interests in mind.
And I agree you and the little ones are children of God who deserve the very best.
I think that is hang-up number one for me--it's not like he's losing his job, stumbling in late for dinner drunk, abusing any of us, etc.
It is typical for relations with an alcoholic person, to lower your standards and keep lowering them. I am glad you are very sound and not willing to wait until the job loss, stumbling and abusing starts. The disease is chronic and progressive.
I don't know if these are valid worries or not.
If those are YOUR worries, they are all valid. Our gut feeling is NEVER wrong, please trust it.
AH has grown especially distant from our 5 y/o girl
I am sad for your girl. Once she has daddy alright and all of a sudden daddy gets distant. She may already be learning she did something wrong or is "not enough" to keep his dad's love. Please consider how this is affecting her and protect her, its your job.
And he really is a "good guy" and most of the time a pretty good daddy. Just a daddy who makes horrible choices, repeatedly and has seemingly no self-control. And if he's not drinking, he's frittering away our money on ebay buying binges. Ugh...did I mention I'm a grad student? (which means that $ is not exactly in excess here?)
I see a man that can walk to AA any day and actually start taking responsability for his roles as a husband and father, but decides every minute not to do so. I see a man that instead of caring about money so you do not worry, children are taken care of and there is some room if any of you need anything extra, such as medicines, etc. spends the family money in alcohol. I do not mean to sound harsh, but from what you tell us AZ, I do not see a good man or a good daddy anywhere. I know its difficult but try to see him as who he is now. Not words, not how he was, or how he could be - just his ACTIONS day-to-day.
I agree with naive, your pastor may influence you to stay for the sake of religion. I would vote on Al anon & an individual psychologist or therapist who would have YOUR best interests in mind.
And I agree you and the little ones are children of God who deserve the very best.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: the desert
Posts: 3
Hi all. Thanks so much for the support and feedback so far. I have read some of the stickies and recommended posts and will continue to do so. I will also check out the book recs. My reading list is growing by the day! I figure I have a lot of reading and a lot of time to put into my own recovery though. I wanted to give an update.
So, I had the talk with AH this evening. I calmly told him that previously I had watched him struggle with things and believed that those issues were resulting from having grown up with the father he has, but that now I see that he has an underlying issue of his own. I told him that I've watched him try to quit (at least saying he's trying) both drinking and the spending sprees and that he's been unable to stop either. Also I pointed out that the hiding and lying are red flags of a bigger problem. I told him that I know he knows the pain of growing up in a family with an alcoholic father and thought that he didn't want that for our kids (I tried to say this matter of factly, not guilt trip like). So I said that I think it's time he reaches out for some support or help and listed several options (an inpatient addiction program ran through our denomination that has super success rates, a addiction program ran at our church, and AA) and asked him how he felt about that. I bet you can guess the two responses. Textbook.
Response 1: "I think it would really help if you would..." (blame me, I am not affectionate enough, accepting enough, etc)
So I said "So what I'm hearing you say is that you don't think you really have a problem except for an unsupportive/unloving wife." He of course snaps back "did I say that?" I just bit my tongue because I wasn't going to play the game and get into a heated exchange. He knows good and well that his answer implied that.
Then I tried one more time to ask if a recovery program of some sort was something that he thinks he might need and be interested in looking into. Here's the second textbook response: "I'm just not comfortable talking to people about that some sort of stuff. I just can't talk to strangers about that sort of stuff" He of course isn't comfortable talking to our pastor (non-stranger) or a therapist (not a bunch of people and someone he would build a "relationship" with) either.
Ugh. So I guess it's really true. I guess he's going to choose his lifestyle over us. I purposely didn't give him any ultimatums because I didn't want to strong arm him into something since I know a recovery program won't work if he doesn't really want it for himself.
He wanted to know if this meant that I was just going to be more distant and I said I hadn't really made plans for what I was going to do yet, but that I was waiting to have this little talk. I told him that I'm coming to understand more that I can only control my ownself and can only make choices for myself, so that now that I know his answer I would have to decide what I'm going to do. I said I was done with what I had to say and did he have anything else to say and he didn't.
Anyway, it was sort of anticlimatic since it all went just like I thought it would, with the exception of not becoming heated. I'm proud that I didn't let that happen and that I was matter of fact and not emotional. So...I see the therapist again tomorrow morning and I cancelled my lunch meeting tomorrow so I could go to the well-attended al-anon meeting. Hopefully those will be helpful. I don't really know what tomorrow holds, but I feel good about all of the steps I have taken this week. I had a good weekend with the kids and was able to have fun with them while still getting some housework done, so I know that I can do this. I am working on doing these things (ie. housework while "taking care of the kids") because they need to be done and because I want to live in something other than chaos, but it is still aggravating when AH wastes away hours doing neither (ie. not caring for the kids nor being productive around here). I have got to let go of the resentment though because it is making me very unhappy. I am also realizing that this is something that I deal with in multiple domains (work, etc) and that my mom is also plagued by this problem. I really want to move beyond playing martyr.
So that's me for today. I'm sure I didn't do everything quite perfectly, but I really needed to hear his perspective on this and did the best I could with the knowledge I have now. Thanks for listening. =)
azmama
So, I had the talk with AH this evening. I calmly told him that previously I had watched him struggle with things and believed that those issues were resulting from having grown up with the father he has, but that now I see that he has an underlying issue of his own. I told him that I've watched him try to quit (at least saying he's trying) both drinking and the spending sprees and that he's been unable to stop either. Also I pointed out that the hiding and lying are red flags of a bigger problem. I told him that I know he knows the pain of growing up in a family with an alcoholic father and thought that he didn't want that for our kids (I tried to say this matter of factly, not guilt trip like). So I said that I think it's time he reaches out for some support or help and listed several options (an inpatient addiction program ran through our denomination that has super success rates, a addiction program ran at our church, and AA) and asked him how he felt about that. I bet you can guess the two responses. Textbook.
Response 1: "I think it would really help if you would..." (blame me, I am not affectionate enough, accepting enough, etc)
So I said "So what I'm hearing you say is that you don't think you really have a problem except for an unsupportive/unloving wife." He of course snaps back "did I say that?" I just bit my tongue because I wasn't going to play the game and get into a heated exchange. He knows good and well that his answer implied that.
Then I tried one more time to ask if a recovery program of some sort was something that he thinks he might need and be interested in looking into. Here's the second textbook response: "I'm just not comfortable talking to people about that some sort of stuff. I just can't talk to strangers about that sort of stuff" He of course isn't comfortable talking to our pastor (non-stranger) or a therapist (not a bunch of people and someone he would build a "relationship" with) either.
Ugh. So I guess it's really true. I guess he's going to choose his lifestyle over us. I purposely didn't give him any ultimatums because I didn't want to strong arm him into something since I know a recovery program won't work if he doesn't really want it for himself.
He wanted to know if this meant that I was just going to be more distant and I said I hadn't really made plans for what I was going to do yet, but that I was waiting to have this little talk. I told him that I'm coming to understand more that I can only control my ownself and can only make choices for myself, so that now that I know his answer I would have to decide what I'm going to do. I said I was done with what I had to say and did he have anything else to say and he didn't.
Anyway, it was sort of anticlimatic since it all went just like I thought it would, with the exception of not becoming heated. I'm proud that I didn't let that happen and that I was matter of fact and not emotional. So...I see the therapist again tomorrow morning and I cancelled my lunch meeting tomorrow so I could go to the well-attended al-anon meeting. Hopefully those will be helpful. I don't really know what tomorrow holds, but I feel good about all of the steps I have taken this week. I had a good weekend with the kids and was able to have fun with them while still getting some housework done, so I know that I can do this. I am working on doing these things (ie. housework while "taking care of the kids") because they need to be done and because I want to live in something other than chaos, but it is still aggravating when AH wastes away hours doing neither (ie. not caring for the kids nor being productive around here). I have got to let go of the resentment though because it is making me very unhappy. I am also realizing that this is something that I deal with in multiple domains (work, etc) and that my mom is also plagued by this problem. I really want to move beyond playing martyr.
So that's me for today. I'm sure I didn't do everything quite perfectly, but I really needed to hear his perspective on this and did the best I could with the knowledge I have now. Thanks for listening. =)
azmama
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Azmama, just as you say, his responses were "textbook,"
but more important,
YOUR responses were just like a "clinic" -- a perfect example of how to approach this, how to state your truth and try to have a dialogue, without becoming engaged in any insanity.
You did wonderfully. So proud of you!
but more important,
YOUR responses were just like a "clinic" -- a perfect example of how to approach this, how to state your truth and try to have a dialogue, without becoming engaged in any insanity.
You did wonderfully. So proud of you!
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
I think you did great!!!Sounds like you have a level head on your shoulders and you are giving yourself the opportunity to make informed decisions
I have got to let go of the resentment though because it is making me very unhappy. I am also realizing that this is something that I deal with in multiple domains (work, etc) and that my mom is also plagued by this problem.
You should be proud of yourself!! You are taking care of yourself and your little ones!
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Your on the upside of the maturity curve. You husband is already in the progressive passive abandonment phase and passive emotional abuse. I want you to stay on the upside, so: Be prepared, at least by knowing, that if/when you give ultimates( your plan to let him know what you are going to do because he is not responding ) because you plan to follow through with them, when you do, the hope is he will recognize it and will respond with the action he needs to take for himself. However, if it goes the oppostie way you will see how fast that progression can turn into aggressive abuse or aggressive abandonment.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by azmama 
I have got to let go of the resentment though because it is making me very unhappy.
Yes, i'm still dealing with the resentment and anger, but I know I will work through it. YOU WILL TOO!
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