Why aren't they remorseful even when they are sober?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
Why aren't they remorseful even when they are sober?
Or is it just my AH? Even when AH is sober, he has to realize what he has done, right? Why doesn't he apologize?
I keep thinking he should be waking up every morning thanking me for still being here after all he has done to this family. But it doesn't happen.
I keep thinking he should be waking up every morning thanking me for still being here after all he has done to this family. But it doesn't happen.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14
Nope, not just your AH. My functioning exAB was never remorseful when sober. Just said he felt like he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't, regardless of the fact that he would show up at my door with booze on his breath. Of course, to him, it was my fault that my reaction was one of anger and discomfort....not as a result that he had been drinking. Now that he doesn't show up anymore (my choice) he doesn't have to worry about it (and neither do I). So I guess what I'm saying is, he couldn't see where his actions led to consequences, therefore he had nothing for which to apologize. Does that make sense?
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by whyamistaying 
I keep thinking he should be waking up every morning thanking me for still being here after all he has done to this family. But it doesn't happen.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I think both of you might benefit from reading the "stickys" in both the 'Alcoholism' forum and the '12 step AA forum.'
You are asking a question that will be answered there. It took years to fall into the pits of the hell of alcoholism and just because someone is newly dry, to expect reality and rationality from them is irrational.
Recovery from alcoholism, only occurs when the person REALLY wants sobriety more than they want to drink, and that takes lots of time. Just because someone hasn't put any booze into their bodies for a week, month, 3 months doesn't mean their 'thinking,' 'way of processing info,' 'feeling' etc has changed. The stopping of the ingestation of the alcohol is just the beginning of the addicted having much deeper issues to work on.
When I first came into recovery, I swear my brain was mush and nothing but fog for almost 6 months. As I stayed sober, slowly got better and continued to work on me (I used AA) and worked my steps and then started living my steps, my amends were made to the best of my ability and they weren't just an "I'm sorry." When I started attending Al-Anon 3 years into recovery to figure out why I still wasn't whole, rofl (I'm still not, but OH SO MUCH BETTER) I started learning how to really keep the focus on ME and not on the A or A's in my life.
So, I would suggest you learn all you can about this 'affliction' which will give you a bit better understanding and work on yourself. You may never get an apology or a 'deep' discussion even if your A does find recovery. Not all the problems of an Alcoholic are necessarily from the alcohol, some do also suffer from personality disorders or other mental illnesses (that they have 'self medicated) for years.
J M H O
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.
LOve and hugs,
You are asking a question that will be answered there. It took years to fall into the pits of the hell of alcoholism and just because someone is newly dry, to expect reality and rationality from them is irrational.
Recovery from alcoholism, only occurs when the person REALLY wants sobriety more than they want to drink, and that takes lots of time. Just because someone hasn't put any booze into their bodies for a week, month, 3 months doesn't mean their 'thinking,' 'way of processing info,' 'feeling' etc has changed. The stopping of the ingestation of the alcohol is just the beginning of the addicted having much deeper issues to work on.
When I first came into recovery, I swear my brain was mush and nothing but fog for almost 6 months. As I stayed sober, slowly got better and continued to work on me (I used AA) and worked my steps and then started living my steps, my amends were made to the best of my ability and they weren't just an "I'm sorry." When I started attending Al-Anon 3 years into recovery to figure out why I still wasn't whole, rofl (I'm still not, but OH SO MUCH BETTER) I started learning how to really keep the focus on ME and not on the A or A's in my life.
So, I would suggest you learn all you can about this 'affliction' which will give you a bit better understanding and work on yourself. You may never get an apology or a 'deep' discussion even if your A does find recovery. Not all the problems of an Alcoholic are necessarily from the alcohol, some do also suffer from personality disorders or other mental illnesses (that they have 'self medicated) for years.
J M H O
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.
LOve and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Reality......
Posts: 735
It sounds like he is still pretty angry and resentful that he cant drink.
I know that all to well. And in my case my A went back out for one more round just to make sure. At the time it was terrible, but now looking back he needed that one more time to prove to himself that he really had no control over drugs. So that relapse was a blessing in disquise.
As long as an addict holds onto the negative feelings of getting sober the longer they stay in this "dry" state. I truly believe that when addicts really truly want to stay sober for themselves and NOTHING else, when they truly feel that enough is enough and get help that is when we as outsiders begin to see the small changes bit by bit.
My A got clean in Oct last year. Relapsed in Feb of this year and got clean again in May. He got clean because he knew without a doubt that he couldnt stay on that path. He knew he needed to be done and he wanted to be done. He has only been clean for a month but I can already see the changes. When he got clean the last time I saw NO changes that were positive. This time around he has a job, is still going to treatment, following through with what his says, acting like an adult and taking care of his responsibilities.
To me, and its just my opinion your husband isnt "there" yet. That is not to say that he wont be there soon but just know that its not unusual.
The best advice I can give you is to find something for you to do. Spend time with yourself. Do things for yourself. Have a relationship with yourself. And as hard as it may be drop your expectations of what should be happening in his recovery. Trust me it will make your life easier. Lots of posts here on expectations in early recovery and for the most part I have read that it will make your life much easier if you have NONE.
I know that all to well. And in my case my A went back out for one more round just to make sure. At the time it was terrible, but now looking back he needed that one more time to prove to himself that he really had no control over drugs. So that relapse was a blessing in disquise.
As long as an addict holds onto the negative feelings of getting sober the longer they stay in this "dry" state. I truly believe that when addicts really truly want to stay sober for themselves and NOTHING else, when they truly feel that enough is enough and get help that is when we as outsiders begin to see the small changes bit by bit.
My A got clean in Oct last year. Relapsed in Feb of this year and got clean again in May. He got clean because he knew without a doubt that he couldnt stay on that path. He knew he needed to be done and he wanted to be done. He has only been clean for a month but I can already see the changes. When he got clean the last time I saw NO changes that were positive. This time around he has a job, is still going to treatment, following through with what his says, acting like an adult and taking care of his responsibilities.
To me, and its just my opinion your husband isnt "there" yet. That is not to say that he wont be there soon but just know that its not unusual.
The best advice I can give you is to find something for you to do. Spend time with yourself. Do things for yourself. Have a relationship with yourself. And as hard as it may be drop your expectations of what should be happening in his recovery. Trust me it will make your life easier. Lots of posts here on expectations in early recovery and for the most part I have read that it will make your life much easier if you have NONE.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 13
My RAH would apologize every time he was an a** or we had a big fight. But then would just do it again. Not sure if he apologized now that he is in recovery I would believe him. Sometimes it becomes just words. Let his actions become his apology.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 182
Not to psychobabble but I agree with Laurie. My therapist believes my husbands recovery involved "splitting" which means he split off the parts of his personality that he couldn't handle facing and still stay sober at the same time.
Now, outside of that realm of psychology, I think that he is very fragile now and has never been that courageous anyway, so having to admit to me the many ways he failed me is just not something he is capable of. Denial is rampant, as is rationalization...."That was when I was drinking."
I don't think there is anyway that I could survive living WITH him through this process. More of the same crap to wade around in, I prefer to continue cleaning up the crap he left behind and taking off my waders. My heart goes out to you.
Now, outside of that realm of psychology, I think that he is very fragile now and has never been that courageous anyway, so having to admit to me the many ways he failed me is just not something he is capable of. Denial is rampant, as is rationalization...."That was when I was drinking."
I don't think there is anyway that I could survive living WITH him through this process. More of the same crap to wade around in, I prefer to continue cleaning up the crap he left behind and taking off my waders. My heart goes out to you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
Hi Im Sharon and Im an alcoholic.
Changing old behaviors takes time.
I was pretty angry when my family
stepped in and did an intervention
on me 18 yrs ago. It took time with
working my program to see, realize
and understand that they didnt do
that out of meaness but out of
concern and love.
They were helping me when i wasnt
able to help myself.
Thru the yrs i remained sober and
yes i was and am grateful for them
saving my life.
However, my 25 yr marriage failed or
ended because i grew in my recovery
and the rest of the family stayed just
where they were.
I learned that when one person in
the family is sick or has an addiction
it affects the rest of the family.
That is why there r other programs
for the family to get involved with
so the entire family grows and becomes
healthier again.
In my case, my little family where not
the ones sick and so they did not see
it necessary to get counciling.
They stayed the same and grew in
their own way and survived....thank God.
My 2 kids are awesome little adults now.
My husband....well, i always prayed
he'd be happy because he stood by
me thru my 25 yrs of ups and downs.
If my little family had seek some sort
of help then they would have better
understood my addiction and actions.
The hardest thing in my marriage was
them not understanding my addiction
to alcohol. Even i didnt know until I
became educated on it.
Today im remarried to someone in recovery
and we both r on the same plane, very
grateful for our program of AA and
the awesome support and understanding
of our fellowship.
Changing old behaviors takes time.
I was pretty angry when my family
stepped in and did an intervention
on me 18 yrs ago. It took time with
working my program to see, realize
and understand that they didnt do
that out of meaness but out of
concern and love.
They were helping me when i wasnt
able to help myself.
Thru the yrs i remained sober and
yes i was and am grateful for them
saving my life.
However, my 25 yr marriage failed or
ended because i grew in my recovery
and the rest of the family stayed just
where they were.
I learned that when one person in
the family is sick or has an addiction
it affects the rest of the family.
That is why there r other programs
for the family to get involved with
so the entire family grows and becomes
healthier again.
In my case, my little family where not
the ones sick and so they did not see
it necessary to get counciling.
They stayed the same and grew in
their own way and survived....thank God.
My 2 kids are awesome little adults now.
My husband....well, i always prayed
he'd be happy because he stood by
me thru my 25 yrs of ups and downs.
If my little family had seek some sort
of help then they would have better
understood my addiction and actions.
The hardest thing in my marriage was
them not understanding my addiction
to alcohol. Even i didnt know until I
became educated on it.
Today im remarried to someone in recovery
and we both r on the same plane, very
grateful for our program of AA and
the awesome support and understanding
of our fellowship.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
To be remorseful you have to own your 'rubbish'. For some people.. alcoholics and non-alcoholics alike.. that is very difficult, the easier option being to ignore it or project it on to someone else.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 56
Hi Sharon,
Thank you for posting that story. It took me a while to understand that if there were hope for a future with my xabf, I would have to take steps to address the issues I've developed over years of being in a relationship with an A.
I've just begun attending Al Anon. I know that if there is to be any hope of us ever being in a healthy relationship with eachother, or anyone else, we both need to continue our own recovery programs.
I really do hope that things will work out for us in the future, but no matter what, I will be in a better place.
Peace
Thank you for posting that story. It took me a while to understand that if there were hope for a future with my xabf, I would have to take steps to address the issues I've developed over years of being in a relationship with an A.
I've just begun attending Al Anon. I know that if there is to be any hope of us ever being in a healthy relationship with eachother, or anyone else, we both need to continue our own recovery programs.
I really do hope that things will work out for us in the future, but no matter what, I will be in a better place.
Peace
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24
Have to agree withthat one Tallulah. It's sometimes not just a case of the alcoholic not owning his own abuse,i t's about him not owning anything at all and that it a trait that anyone can have.
WhyamIstaying, When i said it was never going to happen, I think I meant it was probably never going to happen for you in a time scale that you would be happy with. although i cannot predict the future i can only take an informed guess based on the many tales i've come across on here and in other places. I suppose at the end of the day, it all depends on how much you think your worth in this life.
Last night at my Al Anon meeting there was a woman in her middle seventies who had been asking herself that very same question for the past 50 or so years.. She is now divorcing as she doesn't want to waste what few years she has left of her life. Brave Woman, Much braver than someone divorcing at an earlier age. I looked at her, all old ,wrinkled and worn out and realised that she would probably be turned to dust or ashes in another ten years , she wasn't comming back for another go. I admired her so much for her decission and i'm sorry I didn't rush up to her and shake her hand or hug her coz suddenly, as she was talking about not wanting to waste the time she has left, my own mortality seemed so very real and i knew without doub't that i didn't want to be sitting at an Al Anon meeting in 40 years time or wiriting in to this forum for that matter,( lovely and supportive as you all are ) having come to exactly the same conclusion as her and looking just as old, wrinkled and worn out and planning what to do with the few remaining years i had left to me.
WhyamIstaying, When i said it was never going to happen, I think I meant it was probably never going to happen for you in a time scale that you would be happy with. although i cannot predict the future i can only take an informed guess based on the many tales i've come across on here and in other places. I suppose at the end of the day, it all depends on how much you think your worth in this life.
Last night at my Al Anon meeting there was a woman in her middle seventies who had been asking herself that very same question for the past 50 or so years.. She is now divorcing as she doesn't want to waste what few years she has left of her life. Brave Woman, Much braver than someone divorcing at an earlier age. I looked at her, all old ,wrinkled and worn out and realised that she would probably be turned to dust or ashes in another ten years , she wasn't comming back for another go. I admired her so much for her decission and i'm sorry I didn't rush up to her and shake her hand or hug her coz suddenly, as she was talking about not wanting to waste the time she has left, my own mortality seemed so very real and i knew without doub't that i didn't want to be sitting at an Al Anon meeting in 40 years time or wiriting in to this forum for that matter,( lovely and supportive as you all are ) having come to exactly the same conclusion as her and looking just as old, wrinkled and worn out and planning what to do with the few remaining years i had left to me.
A Brand New Life
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 287
Some addicts are just jerks to begin with...not to be so candid...I truly believe you have cool people and then you have losers and when drugs are removed you are left dealing with what the drugs have altered a bit and there you have it...someone who is a cool person underneath or a total jerk...mine was a selfish jerk and so with or without drugs he still only thought about himself...even in recovery some people are impossible to deal with sober sometimes actually is harder to accept b/c there is no longer an excuse for the way they are...
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Originally Posted by whyamistaying
Or is it just my AH? Even when AH is sober, he has to realize what he has done, right? Why doesn't he apologize?
I keep thinking he should be waking up every morning thanking me for still being here after all he has done to this family. But it doesn't happen.
I keep thinking he should be waking up every morning thanking me for still being here after all he has done to this family. But it doesn't happen.
I didn't glance to see what everyone else wrote yet.
Why you ask, because, then he'd have to admit, he's got a problem and he was in the wrong.
I used to feel justified while drinking. I worked real hard at work. i deserve to go out and close down the bar, I deserved it!!
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
Originally Posted by anvilhead
and it may NEVER happen.....question for you, might sting a bit....did you STAY for the REWARD and the accolades? did you stay just hoping to HEAR how grateful he is that you put up with all the crap and heartbreak?
there is no reward for martyrdom.......no special ceremony for staying in a lousy situation longer than we probably should have.
there is no reward for martyrdom.......no special ceremony for staying in a lousy situation longer than we probably should have.
Have you tried telling him you feel he owes you an apology or thanks? If not, why not?
One of the things my wife told me early on in my sobriety is that she felt I needed some sort of punishment/penance. We talked about this. It came down to her being angry and resentful about the past. I think she's done a pretty good job of letting go of that.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Yesterday I gave this some thought, about remorse... and LaTeeDa says she has seen people around her full of remorse and suffering. She did not feel any better about it. So, if this is a labyrinth.... wondering if they feel remorse or not is a dead end.
Peace does not come on this path of thinking. Believe me!
Peace does not come on this path of thinking. Believe me!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I've seen people come to this site after their loved one has gotten sober. The alcoholic has apologized to them and they still don't feel any better. It's not enough. They come here asking "am I just supposed to forget about all the crap?" "Am I supposed to move on like it never happened?"
Think about it. Is there anything he could say that would make it alright? If he got up tomorrow morning and cooked you breakfast and bought you flowers and said he was sorry, would that make it all better? I don't think so.
Your anger and resentment is your own. You have every right to feel angry, as anyone would in your situation, but he cannot fix that for you. Only you can.
Awareness, Acceptance, Action. Simple, but not easy.
L
Think about it. Is there anything he could say that would make it alright? If he got up tomorrow morning and cooked you breakfast and bought you flowers and said he was sorry, would that make it all better? I don't think so.
Your anger and resentment is your own. You have every right to feel angry, as anyone would in your situation, but he cannot fix that for you. Only you can.
Awareness, Acceptance, Action. Simple, but not easy.
L
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
You talk alot of sense LTD. My question would be, how do we fix it? I'm reading here every day, starting councelling next month and started Al-Anon a while back but I don't feel "fixed".
I can really relate in some way with the OP, deep down I would like an apology, some sort of acknowledgment that how he behaved in the past was wrong. Will it make the past disappear, no. Is it right to apologise for wrongs you have done to people, to make amends? I would like to think so.
My BF has been sober 16 months now. He rarely, if ever mentions his behaviour when drinking, has never apologised and even wonders why I still come here, says that part of his life is behind him and it's not something he cares to dwell on. So why can't I forget too? Wouldn't an apology help the "closure"? How do I know it won't help unless I get it?
I can really relate in some way with the OP, deep down I would like an apology, some sort of acknowledgment that how he behaved in the past was wrong. Will it make the past disappear, no. Is it right to apologise for wrongs you have done to people, to make amends? I would like to think so.
My BF has been sober 16 months now. He rarely, if ever mentions his behaviour when drinking, has never apologised and even wonders why I still come here, says that part of his life is behind him and it's not something he cares to dwell on. So why can't I forget too? Wouldn't an apology help the "closure"? How do I know it won't help unless I get it?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 245
No, I didn't stay just to hear him say sorry. He is sober today. Has been out of rehab for 2 months and relapsed 4x. He isn't working on a program b/c he says AA doesn't work.
So I guess I thought when he got out of rehab, he would say thank you for spending our last dime on me and not yourself. Thank you for giving me a chance. Instead I got nothing. When he got out I asked him how could he just come home and act like nothing happened? The lying, stealing, ect. He said it will take time. That he isn't "fixed" over night.
But it has been 2 months and I still don't see anything. I'm trying to let what everyone says sink in.
For e.g. he can't drive b/c he has no license. There are no buses on the way to work that early so the kids and I have to drive him. His sponsor in rehab told me that since there are no buses, I should, but to let him take the bus home. I'm mad that I have to wake up early and wake my girls just to drive him to work when he can't do even the simpliest for us. I guess I have a lot of anger.
So I guess I thought when he got out of rehab, he would say thank you for spending our last dime on me and not yourself. Thank you for giving me a chance. Instead I got nothing. When he got out I asked him how could he just come home and act like nothing happened? The lying, stealing, ect. He said it will take time. That he isn't "fixed" over night.
But it has been 2 months and I still don't see anything. I'm trying to let what everyone says sink in.
For e.g. he can't drive b/c he has no license. There are no buses on the way to work that early so the kids and I have to drive him. His sponsor in rehab told me that since there are no buses, I should, but to let him take the bus home. I'm mad that I have to wake up early and wake my girls just to drive him to work when he can't do even the simpliest for us. I guess I have a lot of anger.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
hi "Staying",
In active addiction he can't risk true remorse (as opposed to the fake kind we often see in addicts), because as one of the posters said, he'd have to then accept responsibility for his addiction, and he won't do that because he isn't ready to give up the booze.
I expect people in recovery to apologize. I expect amends from them and if amends are not forthcoming, then for me, the relationship can never be healed.
When I went into Al-Anon two decades ago and did my own inventory, I sat down with my 7 year old son and I made my amends. I continue to make amends today when I realize I have behaved in an unthinking way that may have hurt him.
My son deserved and needed my apology all those years ago. It validated that he had suffered for MY ACTIONS (my own chaos from being married to an alcoholic). He did not then, nor should ever have to, "help" me handle my guilt. That is my job. I'd already burdened him with my dysfunction as a parent. The last thing he needed was to feel responsible for making me feel better about my dysfunction. I own it!! I'll deal with it.
The Big Book of AA speaks a lot about remorse and amends. I don't think there is true recovery for anyone--the A or us--without it.
But your AH is not in recovery, dear.
Bluejay
In active addiction he can't risk true remorse (as opposed to the fake kind we often see in addicts), because as one of the posters said, he'd have to then accept responsibility for his addiction, and he won't do that because he isn't ready to give up the booze.
I expect people in recovery to apologize. I expect amends from them and if amends are not forthcoming, then for me, the relationship can never be healed.
When I went into Al-Anon two decades ago and did my own inventory, I sat down with my 7 year old son and I made my amends. I continue to make amends today when I realize I have behaved in an unthinking way that may have hurt him.
My son deserved and needed my apology all those years ago. It validated that he had suffered for MY ACTIONS (my own chaos from being married to an alcoholic). He did not then, nor should ever have to, "help" me handle my guilt. That is my job. I'd already burdened him with my dysfunction as a parent. The last thing he needed was to feel responsible for making me feel better about my dysfunction. I own it!! I'll deal with it.
The Big Book of AA speaks a lot about remorse and amends. I don't think there is true recovery for anyone--the A or us--without it.
But your AH is not in recovery, dear.
Bluejay
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