Ago

Will couples counseling help?

What about sitting down with a copy of "fair fighting" and agree to abide by it's "rules" and talking

What would happen if you asked to talk to him, and sat him down and told him you have some deep seated unresolved anger about the past?

Personally I got great results from couples counseling, what was illuminated was very liberating for everyone involved, and generally speaking, the men that do go and participate with a good therapist actually enjoy it. (speaking from experience pretty much relating to men in recovery)

Therapist: "here's some new tools Johnny!"

""'oooooh....shiny!!!! Johnny LIKES tools...../wanders away all happy distracted by all his new tools"

Therapist: Mary, here's a nice new mirror to play with

...


........

........................................

.................................................. ..................


/distant sound of Air raid Sirens from "The London Bombings" in WWII

/distant sound of a train whistle coming closer....closer...closer ........sound of a horrific train wreck

Part B: /venomous voice: Honey, put those tools down RIGHT NOW we are leaving this therapist isn't any good, we need a different one.

present company excepted of course, I have just seen that happen a few times where the person who 'drags" the other person to couples counseling is informed they have a "part" and they just start going through therapists until they find one that will say "the spouse" is the "broken one"

It's actually pretty funny to watch

totally off topic, but humorous

Anyhow, can you just tell him "Yo!!! I am PISSED!!!!!!!"

if he gives ya any guff refer him to 'the family afterward" in the BB and suggest he talk to his sponsor, then run

Ago

You posted this while I was writing my response

disregard what I said, this guy isn't in 'recovery' or "sober" he's still drinking

My bad

gowest

I'd just like to mention that I see two different requests being asked for throughout this thread.

Some people seem to be asking for "thanks" for staying, for giving up things they should have been doing for themselves, for cleaning up the mess, etc ...

Some people seem to be asking for an "apology"/amends. This to me is an acknowledgment of previous harm that was inflicted.

I don't think you get thanks. If you are doing or have done things that are making you resentful and angry instead of waiting around for a thank you how about if you stop doing those things.

I do think that an amends is warranted and if not forth coming they are not really working their recovery. I agree with LaTeeDa that an apology might not do much to get rid of one's anger. I don't think that is a reason that an apology shouldn't be given. I also like the concept that a living amends is a good way to apologize. The change in behavior/actions can be more significant than words, but you have to be around the person to experience that type of amends.

My children have a blood relative whose actions have caused incredible damage to their lives. This was a previously trusted person. We get letters from prison: I love you, I miss you and hey there is no pizza in prison. Maybe they will be on jeopardy one day and prison food will be a category?

Anyway we were discussing the lack of apology, and my younger daughter said "maybe he is so sorry that he doesn't know what to say." I replied "then that is the apology, you start it with I'm so sorry that I don't know what to say."

It is a skill like any other. It must be modeled for our children. Everybody makes mistakes, we all hurt people we love and we all must learn how to say "I'm sorry".

LaTeeDa

Exactly. You don't have to drive someone to work. You don't have to spend your last dime on rehab. You don't have to stay and tolerate disrespectful, abusive behavior. You choose to, plain and simple.

If you expect thanks for being a martyr, then you have your own agenda that could stand some examination. I am not being judgmental or mean when I say this, because I went through the same thing. I found out it was my self-righteousness and superiority that was making me angry. Just as Ago mentioned in another post--If I do this, you are supposed to do that. Then I get angry when you don't. That's my problem, not yours.

Just sharing what I've discovered. Maybe too soon. You may not be ready to hear it yet....

L

Daisy30

I have been there....waking up in the moring to a sober AH thinking, waiting for my apoplogy that never came...... Then I came to this realization (with the help of my al-anon readings and group)

These were expectations, I set them up. My AH knew nothing about them. They were all in my head.

For example;

I would expect AH to come home from work sober....didn't happen. I would get angry. I then would expect him to help with the dinner and the kids. Didn't happen (hard to do while passed out) I would make dinner, clean up the mess, check homework, bath the kids and put them to bed. Then I would lay in bed and stew until FLAMES were flying out of my head. I can't believe him!


What I found out is....Those were all of my expectations. I had this whole thing going on and it was all in my head! I planned it in my head and I was mad about it in my head. Excpectations get me into trouble everytime! What did I do differently? I stopped having expectations for the alcoholic. I stopped picking up the pieces.

Once I realized my anger was coming from me failing to accept the reality of my situation thing became much easier. AND I no lnger felt entitled to an apology.

It's like going to the hardware store for bread over and over again. It doesn't matter how many times you go, THEY DON"T CARRY BREAD and getting angry at the store doesn't change that



I would stop the drives to work. He is a big boy and he can ask friend. It is not your job. He got the DUI on his own and he can handle the consequenses on his own.

ETA: you will start to feel much better when you start doing what is in YOUR best interest and not in his.

whyamistaying

I do appreciate everyone's words. It really is helping me get insight. I guess I am getting them confused. If I "knew" what I know now, I would not have spent that money on rehab.

His sponsor in rehab told me not to bite the hand that feeds me and to drive him. I didn't chose to get a DUI 2x so why should I drive him anywhere? Not my problem. But the argument was that he will lose his job, blah blah.

So I guess there is some confusion on my part. Because I don't see change, because he just comes home and pretends nothing happened, I think at least a sorry something would show me he is changing because his actions aren't there. But I see, saying sorry with no actions would just be an empty sorry and probably wouldn't show me much either.

I guess I don't want a thanks, but an acknowledgement that I lived through hell. An acknowledgment of what I've been through, but nothing.

MeHandle

Hi whyamistaying,

My Ah apologizes often, he cries and is remorseful. There is no reason for me to believe he doesn't mean it. I forgive him. However, forgiveness does not mean that my expectation of appropriate behavior has changed or that feelings of romantic love are going to return. And I know that his remorse does not mean that he won't do it again and again. Drink, abandon, abuse. ( Well, I no longer care about abandonment towards me, but he remains guilty of it as to his children.)

( This is after I have asked for a divorce) He has brought me flowers, I am sick and he made me tea and soup and brought it to me when he heard i woke from a nap, he moves my teenagers car from behind mine in the morning so i can get out for work. He will call me from work and tell me can i do this and that very nicely and coopertively and accept if I ask him to get something done, like he can go get the oil changed and i will pic up my son from school. He will tell me I have been a wonderful wife and a mother and that he screwed up and he understands why I am going to divorce him. Yet, on the same day what could happen is....

While straight: He refuses to leave the home for a physical separation, he will ask me how can I throw away 22 years of marriage. Will admit his 'shortcomings' and then tell me how mine are 'bad' too.( quacking and stinkin thinkin - if he only understood my actual shortcomings)Then he will tell me how that is wrong and he has to stop blaming. He will go a few days not drinking and break down an just say," I can't do it, I can't do it."

While drunk: He will tell me I am throwing away 22 years of marriage and I can't do this. Will mock my activities and his perceived view of my short comings ( abusive communication, sharing his resentments outloud) Sometimes he will tell me how sorry he is and beg me not to divorce him and if I would just give him hope he could stop drinking.

* Note: About a month ago, because of a challenge by brothers in Christ I told AH I wasn't going to divorce. Sum up, told him he had to get out of the house and we would talk about a return when he was ready to be a husband. I would agree during this time to see a family counceling pastor with him. Until then i would remain separated. He refused to leave. I said okay, I will leave with the boys and then file for a legal separation to protect my assets. ( My mother would remain in the house and my niece with her son , who is renting out a room and house sharing.) He told me if i was going to "play that game and file for legal separation and move out" then I could just file for divorce. So basically his version of hope is that i will tell him I am not going to divorce him and move back into the bedroom and hope for the best in his "want" to quit drinking and overall growth. Hence, I am now submitting to God and planning to reveal good meaning Christians wrong advice and understanding.*

And then at another point of the same day he will just come say "sorry" and then ask me what he said or did .... blackout?! Others times he will just ask me if he did anything 'wrong'..... blackout?! Sometimes he will go drink and just stay in his room, other times he will seek me out and share his mind with me, threaten to throw things, come start making himself something to eat in the kitchen on which he will pick up a knife and use it for his food then 'look' at it - look at me- and not eat and leave the food sitting.

Yes, he is remorseful,truly. However, the circle of drowning himself with alcohol starts all over again. Shame, pride and the bodies need for alcohol set in and the circle starts all over again. He has communicated remorse in both sober moments and drunk moments. This is a man torn apart. Yes he is truly remorseful , yet guilty at the same time. Whether for drinking and/or emotions/mind he needs to be willing to get help and/or accept help.

So your AH is not remorseful or maybe isn't healthy yet in how to express or share it. Mine is still an active drinker yet is remorseful and is not heathly in emotion or mind to know how to deal with his remorse. Which of us at the present has a greater hope of a better outcome for all involved in a family?

Written in a heart of sad reflection, yet with great hope for you. Love tammy

Daisy30

"Don't listen to friends when the Friend inside you says 'Do this.' "
-Mahatma Gandhi


If he wants he job, he will find another ride. If he doesn't want his job then he won't.

It isn't worth losing your peace of mind for.

MeHandle

Quote:
His sponsor in rehab told me not to bite the hand that feeds me and to drive him. I didn't chose to get a DUI 2x so why should I drive him anywhere? Not my problem. But the argument was that he will lose his job, blah blah.


This may be something to ask our recovering Alcoholics on SR who are sponsors. Thread it to them. You could share with them the perspective and how they would advice and why.

I would be interested in reading such a thread and response to something like this from their perspective.

Freedom1990

That is the biggest crock of crap I have ever heard. I've been sponsoring for 20+ years now, and have never EVER communicated with the spouse of a sponsee, nor told that spouse what to do.

What is between me and my sponsees is the sponsee's recovery, which includes becoming accountable for their actions, and making amends. If they've gotten a DUI, it's their responsibility to find transpo, NOT their spouse's.

Ago

I agree with Freedom

A good sponsor won't involve himself in a "family quarrel"

It's possible this "sponsor in rehab" is another "90 day wonder" his own self

It's possible that this "sponsor" was a counselor, and if your husband is the sole bread winner, what he really meant was "don't take away MY cash cow"

He should bear the consequences of his drinking, you may want to think about how his losing his job may impact YOU though if he is the sole bread winner, maybe that's what he meant

generally speaking sponsors stay out of domestic tangles though, if they are worth a sh1t, I mean I would NEVER presume to give advice to a sponsees spouse and I've sponsored a fair number of guys, when I had a "couples counselor/therapist with 25 years of sobriety as a sponsor that was familiar with both me and my GF she didn't seem to have any trouble kicking both our arses, but that was kind of the point.

BB 1st ed

tallulah

Firstly ... no disrespect to the sponsors on the board.. just my experience.

I would not take the sponsor's word as some kind of uber enlightened gospel. They can be just as messed up/manipulative/wrong/ill-informed as anyone else.

Case in point... my XA(R?)BF's sponsor. I never spoke to him, but I knew of him. As far as I am aware my XA(R?)BF turned to him to discuss issues in his life which included his relationship to me. Now I'm not saying a sponsor has to be perfect or lead an exemplary life in order to do service.. but in my experience and from what I know, sharing and counsel was being done with a man whose own relationship was pretty much one long war of attrition. I sometimes wonder if it was coincidence that my relationship with the XA(R?)BF became a mirror of his sponsors. Alarm bells began to ring when the XA(R?)BF mentioned some messages from the sponsor (who had continual money worries and money making schemes) to him that hinted at the XA(R?)BF possibly lending him money.

Like I said.. they're not Gurus..

bluejay6

My father died of alcoholism when I was 12. He had been gone for 8 years and had never sent any money nor contacted me in all that time...but then he became very ill and started writing to me in the few months before he died.

But he never said "I'm sorry." What he did was tell me about all the fun things we would do when he finally got better and could come and see me.

To the very end he could not own what he had done and to the very end he lived in illusion.

He died, with no money, on the mercy of his mother who kept him clothed and fed.

He was a brilliant musician. And he had once worked for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in D.C.

But he never owned his complete and utter failure as a husband and father.

Because he never got sober.

I just don't expect anything from active addicts.

MeHandle

Freedom1990 and Ago,

Freedom 1990 said: This is the biggest crock of crap I ever heard. What did I write below that was a crock of crap? Could you point it out and explain? Did you possibly assume something into what I wrote?

I gave no opinion myself. "HIS" sponsors in rehab told "her" what to do, so I suggested it may be good she ask the opinion of other sponsors to alcoholics in AA, who are not "HIS", thereby getting multiple opinion and perspective from a similar source. And I said I would be interested in their answer.

Ohhh, or were you responding to my suggestion???? Confused... it could be the cold medication and lack of sleep hitting.

>>This may be something to ask our recovering Alcoholics on SR who are sponsors. Thread it to them. You could share with them the perspective and how they would advice and why.

I would be interested in reading such a thread and response to something like this from their perspective.>>

gowest

me too

Ago

This is what the response "looks like" from "their" <our> perspective

It's BS

Sponsors don't get involved in family quarrels

Dee74

Me four
D

Freedom1990

You are correct, and I apologize for any misunderstanding on my reponse.

whyamistaying

I'm so glad I am here. This was from his sponsor/counselor at his recovery center who he met with every day. We do a family meeting towards the end of the 30 days and I asked him how he was going to go to work since there were no buses that early from where we lived. That is when he made the statement.

Now that he is out, he has a sponsor, but he never calls him. He goes for weeks without calling him so I don't know what this sponsor would say in regards to the driving situation. He probably doesn't even know.