I don't know where to start

Old 06-05-2009, 01:41 PM
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I don't know where to start

Alright,
My fiance has decided that he needs to quit drinking because of a recent OWI (operating a vehicle while intoxicated). His BAC was a .219 and he said that he didn't even feel that drunk. He's got a family history of drinking, so his tolerance is very high compared to most.
It's been eight weeks since he's started down this road, and the beginning was rough for both of us. His doctor put him on a large dose of Librium to help calm his anxiety so he wouldn't be so anxoius about not drinking as much. He's now gone from 12 beers on a weeknight to 8. But this uncertainty of when he's going to take the next step is driving me insane. I've therefore gone to therapy myself, and they have told me that I can't be involved in his treatment. In the sense that, it's all up to him and only he can change his habits and way of thinking.
He's told me that he wants to be a controlled drinker, which to me, isn't a good way to think. He's thinking that sober means to be controlled. He says he's always going to be a drinker but wants to be able to say no on the week nights and save it for occassions only. Yet, everytime he sets a goal to drink one less, he can't fight it and gives in.
It's starting to rip us apart. I'm trying not to focus on the beer, because if I do I'll only be nagging and upset when he gives in to temptation. But if I don't pay attention, I miss the little things he claims he's been changing and I'm not being supportive enough. He's told me he can't do this without me, but I've been told, that if he can't do it without me what makes him or me think he's going to be able to quit with me.
I have no one to turn to and I'm so confused about how to live day by day. My father is an alcoholic and I don't want to marry a man that might become the same person. I'm starting to notice excuses he'll make for why he'll have another, and I'm powerless to stop him. He's even said to me that he's just hoping for a miricle that one day he'll just not feel like drinking.
What am I suppose to say to something like that? I don't want to give up on him but I also don't want to enable him in not succeeding.
Something as simple as going to the dentist for his wisdom teeth to be removed (which he's had done before) he cops out on. Not because he hates the dentist or because he's scared of the pain, but because he knows it'd be an opportunity for him to go a day without drinking, and he knows he can't do it. He's affraid of failure that he's not trying hard enough.
Please if someone can give some words of wisdom or just be blantently honest with me on what I should do, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kempnr12 View Post
But this uncertainty of when he's going to take the next step is driving me insane. I've therefore gone to therapy myself, and they have told me that I can't be involved in his treatment. In the sense that, it's all up to him and only he can change his habits and way of thinking.
Welcome. Please take some time to read all the stickies at the top of our forum. As someone who has been married to two A's, I can tell you he may NEVER take the step.

Originally Posted by kempnr12 View Post
He's told me that he wants to be a controlled drinker. He says he's always going to be a drinker but wants to be able to say no on the week nights and save it for occassions only. Yet, everytime he sets a goal to drink one less, he can't fight it and gives in.
It's call denial of one's alcoholism. Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable.

Originally Posted by kempnr12 View Post
I'm trying not to focus on the beer, because if I do I'll only be nagging and upset when he gives in to temptation. But if I don't pay attention, I miss the little things he claims he's been changing and I'm not being supportive enough. He's told me he can't do this without me,
Unfortunately, he owns the addiction; not you. There is no amount of nagging, negotiating, or threatening that is going to make any difference. It's his issue to deal with, or not, as he chooses. Letting HIS addiction drive YOU nuts means your life is also becoming unmanageable. How about giving Al-Anon a try? Go to six meetings, as suggested. If it's not for you, find a good counselor who can get the focus on you and off of him. You have absolutely no control whatsoever over what anyone else does; your fiance or anyone else.

By the way, I heard the same thing from my AH: "I can't make it without you." On the contrary. I am nobody's saviour. I can only take care of myself. The old I-can't-do-it-without-you puts a lot of the responsibility on you and takes it off him. It's called manipulation.

And as someone who has been married to TWO alcoholics, I can tell you from my own experience: if you think it's bad now, it WILL get worse. Perhaps you should carefully consider whether marriage should be in your plans; at least for the time being ...
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:25 PM
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Hi kempnr,

I hear the frustration and fear in your voice. Gosh, you've found the right place. We have all been where you're standing at one time or another.

In your post, this stuck out for me:

He's even said to me that he's just hoping for a miricle that one day he'll just not feel like drinking.
This......really doesn't seem like a very effective way to seek recovery. No alcoholic I've ever known has ever just woken up one day and thought, "Gee, I don't feel like getting drunk any more." Or if they did, it lasted about an hour.

This forum is all about US, the loved ones of alcoholics. We know that the alcoholics in our lives are going to do whatever they're going to do -- we didn't CAUSE their disorder, we can't CONTROL it, and we sure can't CURE it. All we can do is make decisions that are right for us.

If you're looking for advice, the first thing I might suggest is that you put any marriage plans on hold indefinitely. Thousands of spouses have passed through the doors of this discussion board that will tell you point-blank: If I'd known then what I know now, I never ever would've bound myself to this person. Please protect yourself by not getting in any deeper with this man until something changes.

Congrats on seeking therapy for yourself!! Way to go! Your therapists are unfortunately right. You can't change him. You can't manipulate him into stopping. You can't "love him sober." All you can do is take a long, hard look at the man who is standing before you right now (not what you wish he was, not what you think he COULD be some day...), think about what you want for your life, and decide whether you want to live in this agonizing doubt forever.

I'll bet others who have faced the same decision will chime in here...listen to their stories and their advice. Also, please read the Sticky posts at the top of the forum....there is a ton of useful information in there. Al-Anon meetings were also really helpful to me, to gain some face to face support.

Wishing you the best, from one daughter of alcoholics to another
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:28 PM
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I hate being preachy. But as a recovering Alcoholic myself I can promise you with absolute certainty that the "controlled drinker" fantasy will lead to unmitigated disaster. As you can probably already see for yourself, it never works for any meaningful legnth of time. Alcoholism always gets worse. It never gets better. The only solution is to stop drinking entirely. Only he can make that decision. There is nothing you can do if he chooses to continue like he is now. If you decide to stay in the relationship as it is now, you will not have a happy ending.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:34 PM
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My advice would be to not get married at this time. He has an alcohol problem. He most likely cannot do "controlled drinking" Its what makes him an alcoholic. They just keep going. Until he gets out of denial and faces his illness, he won't get better, not for you certainly. If you stay in the relationship, you have a long road in front of you. At least you know his deal. He has an alcohol addiction. Now you can make a choice. Deal with being in a relationship with an addict who doesn't quite believe he is one- or not.
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:43 PM
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Hi there!

You are a smart lady to ask questions now before marrying an active A. Alcoholism is progressive and will get worse. Can you live with him as he IS NOW or as he GETS worse? You know what you are dealing with, so can you live with that?

Please read the stickies at the top of the forum and continue asking as many questions as you have. You might not hear the answers you want to hear, but people here have lots of experience to bring to you.

Hugs,

Miss
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:17 PM
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So you're saying that there's really no hope for an alcoholic, much less the person that wants desparately to spend their lives together but is frustrated by the uphill battle?

I'm not very encouraged by the discussions so far. No chance of an alcoholic gaining control of their drinking so that it is purely for recreation and not a requirement for maintaining their daily routines?

If this is the case, then most alcoholics need to be confined in hospitals where they are cared for daily. They are hopeless cases that will never fit into society?
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by midwestkemp View Post
So you're saying that there's really no hope for an alcoholic, much less the person that wants desparately to spend their lives together but is frustrated by the uphill battle?

I'm not very encouraged by the discussions so far. No chance of an alcoholic gaining control of their drinking so that it is purely for recreation and not a requirement for maintaining their daily routines?

If this is the case, then most alcoholics need to be confined in hospitals where they are cared for daily. They are hopeless cases that will never fit into society?
An alcoholic cannot control their drinking. That's an oxymoron, really. I know this from many years of "controlling" my drinking. However, I do NOT need to be locked in a hospital.. I'm a non drinker. I stopped drinking, it is not a part of my life. I don't know why you'd think that someone who couldn't drink for recreation would need to be locked away.. maybe I'm misreading what you wrote. Since I no longer drink, my life is amazing, exciting, and refreshing every day. Recovery is possible.. alcoholics controlling drinking is at best torturous. For most of us it's all or nothing.. there is nothing "recreational" about alcoholic drinking. Many of us recover every single day.. I didn't see anyone here mention that it's always hopeless.
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:51 PM
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Midwest,

Alcoholics cannot gain control of their drinking, period. That is the problem. It is not a weakness, it is what it is. The only way I have read or heard of anyone (please ask others here) recovering from alcoholism is by completely stopping all drinking and seeking a form of spiritual/psychological/mental treatment program to deal with underlying issues that caused the drinking abuse to begin with. That comes in the form or AA, therapy and I guess other ways.

I hope you read the stickies and others weigh in with their experiences.

Miss
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:06 PM
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There is no such thing as "controlled drinking" for alcoholics. It just doesn't work.

I think there are many places on the web where you can look up statistics, on this disease, how many stay sober, how they most effectively treat it, etc. There is plenty of reading from this side of the disease too = "spouses and family members" and hard facts on how it effects those who choose to live with a practicing alcoholic.

My advice would be to keep this relationship at an arms length until he's been treated, and is working a program 100% of the time - and for a sustained time.

BTW... my XAH was in treatment 3 times during our marriage. His longest stint of sobriety was 7 years. That was a great period in our marriage. Relapse is always looming. And, each time my XAH relapsed, he picked up right where he'd left off - no matter how many years went by. I wouldn't choose to live through that again for anything! It is no surprise so many of us "survivors" say to you "RUN".
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:19 PM
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Midwestkemp,

If an alcoholic could control their drinking, they wouldn't be an alcoholic -- by definition.

We're all for people with alcohol abuse issues who seek help and recovery. It is a joyous thing for all of us....because if we didn't love them, we wouldn't be here. But too many of us have seen what happens when people marry alcoholics who think they can "control their drinking."

You might consider stopping in to the "Newcomers in Recovery" or Alcoholism sections of this discussion forum. You might be surprised at the amount of help and support there is for you there.

Good luck to you both!
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:07 PM
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Kemp,
To answer your question in a nutshell, no there is nothing that can be done to help alcoholics and most of them will never recover. If that was the case then there would be no need for boards such as this. Most alcoholics will end up in the correctional system, in homeless shelters, insane asylums, or more often than not preying on vulnerable people who will take them in, feed their disease, and perpetuate their insanity a little bit longer before they move on to their next victim. I know it might sound difficult to believe that in our modern society with all of its advanced medicine that the situation is so hopeless, but that is in fact the case. If you do not believe me I suggest you take a visit down to your local jail or psych ward and you will see exactly what I am talking about.
The biggest red flag that went up in your whole post was that he is not ready to stop drinking, hence the vain attempts to moderate. I can tell you right now that the likelihood that he manages to successfully 'control' his drinking is virtually nil, particularly in view of the fact that you already said that he has tried to do this on many occasions but is never able to. I hate to sound the pessimist, but this indicates that he has already passed the point of no return, and the only solution for him is permanent sobriety. Until he is willing to make that admission, he is going to continue to suffer consequences as a result of his drinking, such as OWI's, and ANYONE INVOLVED IN HIS LIFE WILL CONTINUE TO SUFFER HIS CONSEQUENCES AS WELL! Stop and consider how much of this recent behavior you are willing to tolerate before he is ready to make that admission, because if he ever does, which is unlikely at best, it might be years or decades before that decision comes about. You mentioned that his drinking is bothering you, but you don't want to say anything because that will make you a nag. Is this really a situation you want to be living in - where you are not able to voice your concern about his behavior because he is so determined to protect his ability to drink?
I suggest you look into Al-Anon in your area. I think some face-to-face support with other people who have walked in your shoes would be invaluable. I cannot tell you to leave your fiance - that is a decision that only you can make. What I can definitively tell you though is to DEFER MARRYING HIM AT THE MOMENT! These issues become infinitely more complex once you two are legally married, if for no other reason because you can no longer just walk away from him. If you are not one hundred percent willing to tolerate his behavior indefinitely, then ask yourself if you want to be entering into a legal union with this man.
I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:47 PM
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I would suggest that you go read my story. If I had known, what I was getting involved with and how damaging it would be down the road, how much of myself I buried, how despite being a good supporter/enabler/codependant/whatever, I still got screwed over in the end, I never would have gotten involved with my wife who is an alcoholic. Even in "recovery" it has become a nightmare. I have been married with kids with her and now that we are splitting, it is infinitely more complicated, more emotionally draining and more expensive. If I knew what you know now, I never would have stayed in that relationship. I missed the warning signs that you have, that knowledge of what the real deal is here. If I knew what you knew, I would have moved on and found someone else without a substance abuse problem and all the associated emotional baggage that comes with it. You have a great opportunity to dodge a bullet here and spare yourself some significant heartache. Why make life harder than it needs to be? this is just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by midwestkemp View Post
No chance of an alcoholic gaining control of their drinking so that it is purely for recreation and not a requirement for maintaining their daily routines?

If this is the case, then most alcoholics need to be confined in hospitals where they are cared for daily. They are hopeless cases that will never fit into society?
A true alcoholic can't regain control and drink purely for recreation. A true alcoholic has an allergy of the body, and an obsession of the mind.

I'm happy to say I don't need confinement to a hospital, and have been sober over 18 years now.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:18 PM
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Listening to what everone has said is confusing yet it's the truth and I know it's from the heart. It might not be what I want to hear, but I had a feeling that my fears were true, and you all have confirmed it. However, dealing with a situation like I'm in is much more complicated than just saying "I'm not taking it anymore". There are other people involved in this decision.

I do want to make it clear that my "fiance" and I are actually not engaged. We've been together over three years now and have attempted to get married twice, and have decided that until he can divorce the can he can't marry me. But what I'm realizing now is that I could spend my entire life waiting for him to come around. And then I've wasted even more time than I have now.

I don't know if my fear of kicking him out is because I don't want to give up on "us" or I don't want to be alone. But I can't keep living like this. Besides being angry about the drinking I've got other issues with him because of past break ups. Such as cheating and lying which makes any odd change of habit, whether that be the change in drinking or just his attitude for the day, I'm constantly on my gaurd about what he's doing and why. I'm trying to get us to spend more time together and all it does is start fights. It seems like he doesn't want to be around me when I get involved and ask questions about his drinking. But if I'm not talking about it with him I'm thinking about it.

I've got some thinking to do and possibly some preparing to do. I'll keep everyone up to date on the progress or changes "we've" made.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kempnr12 View Post
I don't know if my fear of kicking him out is because I don't want to give up on "us" or I don't want to be alone. But I can't keep living like this. Besides being angry about the drinking I've got other issues with him because of past break ups. Such as cheating and lying which makes any odd change of habit, whether that be the change in drinking or just his attitude for the day, I'm constantly on my gaurd about what he's doing and why. I'm trying to get us to spend more time together and all it does is start fights. It seems like he doesn't want to be around me when I get involved and ask questions about his drinking. But if I'm not talking about it with him I'm thinking about it.
Better to live with a known evil than an unknown one, right? Being alone is not that terrible. I settled for less than I deserved all because I had this horror of being alone. Well, I married an alcoholic, and I can tell you this: you don't know ALONE until you're married to an addict. You will find out what it is like to be alone with another body in the house. And it will get to the point that you just wish that body would leave so you could enjoy being alone.

You're constantly on your guard. You have fights. He is AVOIDING you discussions about his drinking. He does not want to face his addiction. Please seriously consider ending the conversations about his drinking. It's not on our side of the street. He's heard you. You've made it clear that it bothers you. He is still drinking. I hope that clarifies for you why you should end this exercise in futility.

You may be angry about his drinking, but he isn't. He's angry that you are interfereing with his drinking. You can rant, rave, bargain, plead, threaten, harangue, scream, threaten .... whatever. IT WILL NOT STOP HIS DRINKING. He enjoys his addiction. You do not.

So now the ball is in your court. Do you want to keep indulging in fruitless go-nowhere arguments about his addiction or do you want to get help for yourself?

It's up to you.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:47 PM
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Welcome, kemp. Your life sounds really hard and unhappy. I am sorry.

You may not be the one who decides if or when there will be a breakup.

All you have to do is pose a threat to his drinking. When you do this, he will then find some way to end things with you. Either you cooperate with his drinking or he will be done with you. He will overtly or covertly violate your relationship in some manner and then he will simultaneously declare that you made him do it. He will look good, you will look bad, and he gets to keep the love of his life: alcohol.

This is the insanity of the addict mind and addict behavior. They are extremely cunning.

Welcome, and stick close....you'll need us.

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