MarcusT

Yeah but she isn't drinking. Of course, abstinence doesn't solve a whole lot either. So maybe all the self destructive element of the alcoholic are still there, coming out in new ways. Is that what you mean?

MarcusT

Yes I agree. There is more here than simply " This is my post alcoholic recovery". Initially she asked me to move out. I said I will as long as I have access to my home. She said she needs more privacy and I needed to call ahead first to come over ( which is fine) and could not come over if she was not there which is not fine). She wanted to just stay in the house, live in la la land with me footing the bill and being elsewhere separated from my home.

steve11694

IMO, she is biding time. Saying anything to get what she wants. For many alcoholics; free room and board, a base camp from which to base her drinking.

Perhaps the best advice I ever got was from a recovering alcoh now director of a alcohol rehab center. He said "don't even try to figure out the behavior, actions, words" Normal thinking is corrupted and perverted in chemical addiction. Your time is better spent on happy pursuits with logical, reasonable, sane people.

steve11694

This is "ditto" of my story. AW wanted me to move out but continue to pay for everything.
Through friends of friends later learned her drunk friends were scamming and conspiring to get a better place for them to live, and free of charge to boot. AW thought it was a good idea because she envisioned our place becoming "party central"
thing is those drunk scammers will just as easily screw each other if it suits their childish, grandiose. "little God" complexes.

Sorry to be so blunt with you but I have been to the gates of hell and back, been to counseling, been to rehab center support groups, open AA meetings, Alanon, and a recovering alcoholic friend; get this, an Addictionologist, an M.D. specialist, advising me NOT to get caught up in the automatic lies, scamming, manipulating, deceit, etc etc.

naive

marcus-

after reading this thread, i find myself wondering why you should leave your home? why would you agree to not be able to be in your house or call first or not be there if she isn't there? i wouldn't agree to that!

if she wants to go and have a new life, great. she can go and have her new life. what that means is she can pack, she can leave and she can have all the privacy she wants that way.

she's playing you.

bella162

I agree entirely with naive's post and with the post AGO wrote .. It's easy to blame alcohol for all the stuff that goes on in a relationship without stopping to think that it just might have nothing to do with alcohol at all.. i think i have been guilty in making that excuse for my abh.. alcohol or not he's just not very nice and completely self centered, so whatever the reason for her ending it with you, it might not have anything to do with alcohol or recovery or anything like that. Anyhow, tell me, why should you be the one to leave?, Has it got anything to do with the kids, or a legal reason or anything like that or are you simply just being nice about it all? To my way of thinking, it's her choice to be independent and you are allowing yourself to take on all the responsibillity and burden for that choice. it would be so much easier for you to choose to allow her to experience what being independant and free is really like by allowing her to find and finance her own place and lifestyle.. coz if your wanting to be kind and loving towards her still , thats the best way of helping her to 'grow up' and get in the real world. I reckon she will eventually really respect you for helping her like that, even though she probably wouldn't appreciate it at the time.

Besides, you really do have to think about yourself too coz, you might not realise it but your special and really count too, and how are you going to feel when she moves that "buisiness partner" of hers into your home and into your slippers, that'll probably happen. If these two are eventually going to have a life together and be happy, ( and i'm not saying that that is whats going on here, just that you shouldn't be suprised if it does ) then thats great for them and you should wish them love,luck and happiness but, let it be just that, a wish for love, luck and happiness and not a ready made roof over their heads - it's not your job to provide them with such a generous gift in life is it, kind and generous are you might be feeling and you'll only feel bitter about it in the end anyway and that would not be very good for your spiritual health..

MarcusT

Yes- I agree with you and agreed to only move out under certain conditions and we could not negotiate house access as she wanted a call first and no house access for me when she wasn't home. So she said " I will just move out" I said "OK" since we can't agree on house access. I told her the house we live in is hers too and she can come over when she wants. I don't need my privacy so badly. I'm sure she will call first once we she get all her stuff and gets settled. If it becomes a problem, then we will have to re-address the issue.

Well, yesterday she moved out to her new apartment. She took the kids for now until we figure out sleeping arrangements for them. I will probably take them for a few nights during the week and we will split the weekends up. My job requires me to be there earlier than summer camp starts for them. She doesn't want to separate me from the kids so that is a good thing we agree on. So she has got her privacy. I am learning very quickly how little power I have over her and that is part of dealing with the dysfunctional codependant good provider/enabler side by learning to let go.

Its like my brain is split. At times I feel fine with this and more empowered that I set at least one boundary and told her "No". Other times, I feel weak, weepy, lost and really sad. At least I can see more than one path here, even if I I can't totally embrace it yet. My hope is that perhaps one day, if we both do our stuff and heal up, maybe there is a chance for a better future. I am not betting on it, but I am doing my part for me, so as not to go back to dysfunctional relationships, this current one or any other in the future. That is over for both of us.

naive

why would you want power over anyone?

MarcusT

Yeah I don't think she is actively drinking but do not know what the future holds. She might have been thinking she can just stay in our nice house and hasve it cushy, with our without buddies/boyfriends, whatever. Yes I am paying for everything, simply becase right now she has no steady source of income. Hopefully this will change. We have placed a lot of stuff on hold now until we sort out more permanent solutions. If we proceed with mediation/divorce then finances wil be ultimately discussed and settled on. I know I can't afford to pay for everything indefinitely.

GiveLove

Marcus, keep working on your end of things, and on rebuilding a life that is good for YOU, and those bad days will start to space themselves out farther and farther.

That's why we put so much focus here on our own lives - our goals, our dreams, our ambitions - because sadly, waiting for another human being to change for us is just a waste of time and life.

I know this hurts and I'm really sorry. Keep protecting yourself.

MarcusT

so what you are saying is that, even after the drinking stops, her thinking remains distorted and corrupted. Basically, I am not really dealing with a rational sane person.

MarcusT

I think that I did a lot of controlling of her when she was actively drinking. It's met with much resistance now that she is no longer drinking, with an extra heaping of resentment on her part. Even suggestions about how to do this split are met with resistance and she perceives me as still trying to control the situation. I initially did try to control our situation to avoid this outcome (splitting apart) however it is happening. Saying you are gonna let go and actually doing it are two different things.

FunnyOne

She might be sane, she might be rational...but selfish people do EVERYTHING based on what's in it for them. That's what drives us crazy, because our brains don't work that way. To keep your own sanity you need to understand that.

bella162

I feel weak, weepy, lost and really sad. ( don't know how to use the quote thing properly yet )


I read this bit marcus and burst into tears for the first time today. I'm sort of going through the same emotions as you about whats happened to me. It's just horrid.
:-(

steve11694

If you study posts here from families, loved ones, and recovering addicts, unfortunately you will see the answer is YES

YES, for me was further reinforced by opinions from addiction treatment specialists I have sought advice from.

And yes there are spouses that simply decide they want out. When chemical addiction is part of the equation all bets are off.

Ago

First you write:

Then you write:

It seems to me that her getting resentful and angry and leaving a (by your own admission) controlling person is a pretty rational sane decision. One who blames the break up all on her and even makes her out to be crazy for leaving, It's the only rational explanation there could be for her leaving right? She's crazy. It's "her fault". I would leave a controlling person/relationship too, someone who even tries to "control the break-up", probably with a pretty good helping of resentment as well, especially if they were accompanied by such "discounting" and "minimizing" of my feelings, and being labeled as "not sane or rational" for leaving.

Maybe her methods could have been better, but they rarely are in real life, but as I read the thread carefully, "she's crazy" doesn't seem to be the "real" reason she left.

Perhaps you could maybe focus on you a bit and I suggest you might find a different reason for the break up if you look at it from a slightly different angle.

Blaming her might give you short term satisfaction but it won't solve the reason why she is leaving, nor will it help when the same thing happens in your next relationship for the same reasons. It's possible that some real inner work would benefit you.

She may be a dry drunk, she may be an awful person, she may be Idi F'ing Amin come back to make your life hell, but I guarantee, you don't a long hard look at why you are here and what your part is, and why she really left you, you WILL be back in this same situation, and it WILL hurt more next time.

Something to think about.

TakingCharge999

Hi MarcusT

In relationships its always 50/50 and both sides will tell totally different stories, as both have a set of dark glasses based on past traumas, addictions, previous hurts, prejudices, values, etc.

Ex AH speaks about me as "The Enemy". If you ask me I have been one of the few people that have really cared about him.

I read yesterday that forgiveness comes when you realize the other person is a hurt, suffering person, acting from his or her own unhealed wounds. Its not that they consciously decide to hurt you - its that they have nothing else in their heart and thats the only thing they can give to others. Apply this to yourself too. What happened, happened, you did your best, you are a human and you make mistakes...

The advantage now is that you are willing to see yourself honestly and do the hard work so you do not repeat the same story with another woman as Ago says. This is your chance to reflect, learn, grow... all of what you feel is natural, please keep posting.

During grief, emotions come in waves, maybe mixed, "expect the unexpected" is the motto.. just keep the good inner work up, and more will be revealed. You are on the right track now, one that holds much promise and joy by the end. (Or the beginning?)

((Hugs))

MarcusT

No there is stuff I own here. I was well trained in codependency from physically ill, controlling, substance abusing parents. I carry that and Have been in relationships that turn into disasters my whole life. This current situation being the one that takes the cake. I didn't know that the person I met 10 years ago was an alcoholic. We have talked about it and it was well hidden from me for some time. As it progressed, I did notice it and labeled it as " a drinking problem" but not alcoholism. She stopped cold turkey hen she got pregnant 2 times, so I didn't think, since she stopped so easily, that it was as serious a problem as it really was. That it was still "Alcoholism". I didn't know then that high functional alcoholic are a majority of alcoholics out there. I think there was a lot of denial about it on both parties' end. There was hiding of bottles, all that. I didn't realize then what a powerful effect being with a person would have on me. Bringing out the worst of the codependent behaviors, the feeling of anger, betrayal, hurt, anxiety. The controlling aspects of it. I was a codependent before that, rescuing others.

What is confusing is that I have heard form her, when we talked about reasons this was happening, that it was her and her stuff. But other times it was me and my stuff. My neediness, codependent issues, my need for validation and controlling actions. So my head is trying to sort it all out. How much do I own here? How much of this has nothing to do with me?

Its hard because now that all the cards are on the table, her answer is to walk. We both acknowledge that we have some bad stuff here. But there was never any attempt made to go work it out as a couple. Its just "over" in a heartbeat. Its just a shame and I feel my kids are trapped in the middle o it. Hell I feel I am trapped in the middle of it. I am glad she is purportedly going out into the world to seek her recovery, whatever form that might end up being. Buts its like I have hit my rock bottom after supporting her thru her bad times, only to be whacked down again. I just wish we gave each other a chance. Our conciling sessions basically left me with the conclusion that this is post alcoholic recovery in process ( this is what I was told by the doc is the primary issue here (after 4 session)) and that the recovering alcoholic can go thru tremendous changes. The entire situation stinks and is very frustrating.

I am doing my work. I started AL Anon and Coda meetings and starting with an individual therapist. I hope this helps me out and pehaps heals some of the wounds we have caused one another.

Ago

I do know

I understand

Quote:

I didn't realize then what a powerful effect being with a person would have on me. Bringing out the worst of the codependent behaviors, the feeling of anger, betrayal, hurt, anxiety. The controlling aspects of it.

I "get" this, what I am trying to do right now is "own" it my own self, if that makes sense. Like, yeah, this situation has "brought out the worst in me" but, for me, what I am working on is taking the focus off of the behaviors that "brought this out in me" to working on me so I don't have it to bring out. Healing those things rather then hurting others with them. As long as it's "somebody else's fault" I am not taking personal responsibility for my own part and behavior.

I used to say to myself, "I'm not like this" Now I say to myself "This is what I am like in this situation, now what can I do to change it?"

A good friend of mine states if we put up "defenses" by their very nature they will be "attacked", that's what defenses are for, defenses and "being defended" by their very nature attract "attack", but if we put up boundaries, they don't get "attacked".

So by using this thinking, what I am working on right now is focusing on "the worst in me" that gets brought out in these situations so it's not there to come out.

When I am centered and calm, hurricanes come at me and I am calm as placid as a Hindu Cow, I am loving, kind, and helpful, when I am "off center" everything appears through my filter of past hurt and pain and my "operating system" switches from "Windows Healthy Dude" to "Windows why are you doing this to me" and everything appears through that filter, which only reinforces the behaviors on both sides of the equation and makes everything magnify, including my codependent behavior, which only makes matters worse, never better.

My explanation is a bit oblique, sorry, I am having trouble verbalizing, "Dude, I like, totally get it, me too, totally" to regress into my native tongue, which is California Surfer.

For me, by my very nature, I am unable to see myself objectively, especially when I go to my "unhealthy place" because it's....ummm.....well....unhealthy, so I am utilizing my support group like mad right now to get back on track. like Buddha says, well of course you can't see yourself, your eyes point outwards, and Einstein says something like, The brain that caused the problem, by it's very nature, can't solve it. (paraphrased)

bluejay6

Hey Marcus, I just want to step in again, wish you strength, and also be an advocate for YOU.

Marcus, every single one of us here knows what an addict personality is. We know the mind games, the cons, the blaming, the desertion, the come close-go away, the "he/she understands me better than you do" (the one they're running away with), the "you're too controlling" (this is CLASSIC and also absurd since the alcoholic has been controlling the relationship with his/her craziness from day one.

IMO, you have an ADDICTION problem, not a relationship problem, because you have NEVER HAD a relationship. Addicts do not have relationships. They have arrangements, with them in charge, either blatantly or covertly.

Life with an addict is insane and when we try everything in the world to achieve some equilibrium and some sanity in the home, we are accused of being controlling. Marcus, don't you believe it. If you are with a mature, rational woman and she accuses you of being controlling, then by all means listen well and change. But if a nonrecovering addict accuses you of the same, you are being manipulated and degraded.

I am with Steve's posts. This is about chemical addiction and an addict's crazy thinking and behavior which has made you doubt every good instinct you have and has leveled your self-esteem to the sidewalk.

Your job is to face the fact that your mind has been controlled by addictive disease sinking its claws into you and to find your way to clarity. Stop hoping she'll change, Marcus, because without true recovery, she will always be a self-centered, self-serving, complaining, whining, accusing, resentful, me-me-me addict.

I don't have much patience when someone is so decimated by an addict and then has to feel responsible for it.

You are responsible for seeing reality and taking realistic action now that you understand more about addiction and about how it made you sick.

But you should NEVER think that the reason she's walking out with her camera and her new boyfriend is because you in some way failed her.

You get better, Marcus. Let her ruin her own life without you.

And by the way, if it doesn't work out with the new guy, and she actually has to be alone AND work for a living, bet you anything she'll be knocking on your door and telling you she never realized just how much she really loves you.

Marcus, don't let addiction mess up YOUR mind.

BJ