Ima Newbie :o) Hi there!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Acton MA
Posts: 2
Ima Newbie :o) Hi there!
Hello All!
I am very grateful to locate this message board after an afternoon of searching for something like this to provide support. I am currently considering attending an Al-Anon meeting, but I am in a period of transition (my husband has accepted a new job and we are relocating), so I don't want to get started and then uproot. Hence, I wanted to find an on-line community with which I might start to get some insight from others and eventualy move on to Al-Anon.
There is a long history of alcoholism in my family on my mother's side. Most particularly, my grandparents were alcoholics in the grand tradition--my grandmother was never seen without her bourbon and my grandfather loved cosmopolitans. According to my mother, she was abused at their hands and she left home, got married, and had children. Her brother, my uncle, turned temporarily to drugs, but straightened himself out and became a respectable suburban married father of two.
My parents always drank alcohol "respectably" I guess is a word I could use. They never drank on a regular basis, and when they did, never to an extreme. I can remember my father being drunk exactly twice in my life, and I cannot recall my mother ever having been drunk.
Growing up, my sister and I could see both sides--how alcohol could destroy relationships and how it could be used responsibly. As a teenager, I attened Youth to Youth conferences, which warned against the dangers of alcohol and drug abuse, and when I was finally of age and able to try alcohol, I discovered that I simply did not care for the taste of it. It does not appeal to me in flavor, nor does it "do" anything to me other than make me extremely tired. So I do not drink. My husband has the occasional beer, his family all has drinks at family gatherings, no big deal.
My sister, on the other hand, seems to have gone the other route, the more destructive route, and it is her I really feel I need some support and help with.
My sister has always marched to her own beat, and heading off to college, she was no different. She ran with the theater crowd, and after every show they would go out and get plastered. During her last year in college, our parents separated and eventually divorced, and her drinking increased during and after this event.
After college, she accepted an offer to go teach English overseas. Her first country, China, had a dearth of Westerners, but she came upon a group of them who congregated nightly in a local bar owned by a couple of Australians. This seems to be where her heavy drinking began. After a year in this setting, she was drinking heavy, serious alcohol. She was in the bar every night for the social aspects, and in the course of it, drinking serious alcohol.
After a year in China, during which time I saw her only once for my wedding, which she did her best to ruin. Her job in China ended last October, and she went off to Siberia. According to her, the only thing up there to do during the long, freezing winter is to drink, and heavily. She had fallen out of touch a bit during this time, but we occasionally communicated with on-line messaging and emails. All her side was about how drunk she had gotten, how much she had been drinking, what she was drinking, etc. etc. She would only send these messages to my mother and I and never to our father. Eventually, my mother got upset enough to contact my father about all of this, but even when presented with the emails, he claimed there was nothing to be concerned about, she was just having a good time, and after all she never told him about any of this, so we were just being over-emotional women again.
This June, my sister came home for the summer. She decided to surprise everyone, so my husband and I took a trip to my father's for the July 4th holiday and as we walked in the front door, my sister came around a corner. I was so happy to see her that I burst into tears and had to sit down. It was one of the best moments of my life.
The joy quickly dissipated. After two days, the gloves were off, and my sister was busy pointing out everything I am doing wrong with my life. The topics were wide ranging, and included everything from the way I placed money to pay bills at restaurants to the fact that she finds my husband and I nauseating. Within four or five days, we were barely on speaking terms, and I was sobbing every night. My husband couldn't take it any longer, and we agreed to go home early. We left, and my father was upset with ME for leaving, saying that whatever was going on was between me and my sister. When I asked him had he ever seen me cry the way I was, he admitted he had not.
Later that night, I told my sister I really didn't want things to end on a sour note. Her response was, "You gotta do what you gotta do, kid." That pretty much sums up her general attitude.
My father decided he would come to visit us this past week. My sister was supposed to go down and see her boyfriend, but she wound up not doing that and decided to accompany my father to see us and our new home, which we purchased while she was away. I was somewhat apprehensive, but I didn't want her to go back to Russia with us on a sour note. I decided that I would not let her get to me, no matter what she said, because, in the end, it's my decision to allow her to upset me or not, and to accept or reject anything she has to say about me or to me.
For the first day or so, everything went pretty well, and we were getting along, not saying anything hurtful etc. etc. After two days, however, the need for alcohol came over her and she went to the grocery store and bought some hard lemonade. She and my husband each had one, and the next night, we all went out to a piano bar, where she neatly put away 4 gin and tonics. When she left, the lemonades had mysteriously disappeared, and when I asked her where they were, she said she didn't know.
During her time here, she also got a new job offer, and I guess decided this meant she didn't need to be human any more. The highlight of the trip was when she sat me down and told me my life was "sh*t" to her. I thanked her and left the room. Her MO seems to be that she says what she wants to whomever she wants, and if that person responds, she escalates either by crying and saying how no one understands her or else by getting nastier and nastier until the other person is in tears.
I don't really know what to say, or what I particularly want or need in terms of support. She will be leaving the country again in September, and it'll be another 10 months before I see her. She is different around each one of us. She drinks openly every single night around my father and I, although I think she does sneak drinks in the night, as I think she did with the hard lemonades. I think she likes rubbing things in my face, trying to shock me. I have chosen not to allow that to happen any more. Where my mother is concerned, I think she does have some feelings for my mother's emotional state and doesn't drink openly around her.
My mother has returned to Al-Anon to get help with her emotional needs, leftovers from my grandparents and now adjusting to my sister. I don't know what I should do. Part of me refuses to allow her to ruffle my feathers any more. But a big part of me is still extremely sad about the way things are turning out. We were always so close and now it just seems that she hates me and will say anything and everything to get that point of view across. In the past 18 months, she has done everything she can--from doing stupid things to try and make my wedding uncomfortable to telling me afterwards how every single person in my family was miserable at my wedding and every reason why, to giving me a checklist of every one of my failings as a human being.
Today is my birthday, and she is willfully ignoring it. She always sends me checklists of things for care packages, has borrowed literally nearly a thousand of dollars from us, and when she comes here has a list of things she has been DYING for, but can't even spring 99 cents for a card or make a phone call on my father's dime. I feel taken advantage of, I feel hurt despite myself, and I guess, really, I am just so confused how this wonderful person has become so different, so difficult, so unlikeable. And despite it all, I love her! I would like nothing better than to restore our once close relationship. I could put the drinking aside, but her attitude while she is drinking makes mending things seem impossible. Additionally, my husband has decided he doesn't want to deal with this any more and he doesn't want much to do with her. So I'm kind of torn between the two of them.
On the one hand, while she is out of the country, this is not such a pressing issue. I can go on about my business, until her emails pop in and she either needs something or wants to detail her latest drunken escapades. Even then, I don't have to deal with her directly and can see what she is doing for the shock value. This summer, seeing her in the face to face, and seeing the changes in her, though, has brought all this to the forefront, and I really don't know how, or if, I should be dealing with any of it.
I would genuinely appreciate any and all comments or suggestions or recommendations, including if I am completely nuts and shouldn't be worried at all! I know this was long, so thank you for reading all of it. I really appreciate it.
Best,
Z.
I am very grateful to locate this message board after an afternoon of searching for something like this to provide support. I am currently considering attending an Al-Anon meeting, but I am in a period of transition (my husband has accepted a new job and we are relocating), so I don't want to get started and then uproot. Hence, I wanted to find an on-line community with which I might start to get some insight from others and eventualy move on to Al-Anon.
There is a long history of alcoholism in my family on my mother's side. Most particularly, my grandparents were alcoholics in the grand tradition--my grandmother was never seen without her bourbon and my grandfather loved cosmopolitans. According to my mother, she was abused at their hands and she left home, got married, and had children. Her brother, my uncle, turned temporarily to drugs, but straightened himself out and became a respectable suburban married father of two.
My parents always drank alcohol "respectably" I guess is a word I could use. They never drank on a regular basis, and when they did, never to an extreme. I can remember my father being drunk exactly twice in my life, and I cannot recall my mother ever having been drunk.
Growing up, my sister and I could see both sides--how alcohol could destroy relationships and how it could be used responsibly. As a teenager, I attened Youth to Youth conferences, which warned against the dangers of alcohol and drug abuse, and when I was finally of age and able to try alcohol, I discovered that I simply did not care for the taste of it. It does not appeal to me in flavor, nor does it "do" anything to me other than make me extremely tired. So I do not drink. My husband has the occasional beer, his family all has drinks at family gatherings, no big deal.
My sister, on the other hand, seems to have gone the other route, the more destructive route, and it is her I really feel I need some support and help with.
My sister has always marched to her own beat, and heading off to college, she was no different. She ran with the theater crowd, and after every show they would go out and get plastered. During her last year in college, our parents separated and eventually divorced, and her drinking increased during and after this event.
After college, she accepted an offer to go teach English overseas. Her first country, China, had a dearth of Westerners, but she came upon a group of them who congregated nightly in a local bar owned by a couple of Australians. This seems to be where her heavy drinking began. After a year in this setting, she was drinking heavy, serious alcohol. She was in the bar every night for the social aspects, and in the course of it, drinking serious alcohol.
After a year in China, during which time I saw her only once for my wedding, which she did her best to ruin. Her job in China ended last October, and she went off to Siberia. According to her, the only thing up there to do during the long, freezing winter is to drink, and heavily. She had fallen out of touch a bit during this time, but we occasionally communicated with on-line messaging and emails. All her side was about how drunk she had gotten, how much she had been drinking, what she was drinking, etc. etc. She would only send these messages to my mother and I and never to our father. Eventually, my mother got upset enough to contact my father about all of this, but even when presented with the emails, he claimed there was nothing to be concerned about, she was just having a good time, and after all she never told him about any of this, so we were just being over-emotional women again.
This June, my sister came home for the summer. She decided to surprise everyone, so my husband and I took a trip to my father's for the July 4th holiday and as we walked in the front door, my sister came around a corner. I was so happy to see her that I burst into tears and had to sit down. It was one of the best moments of my life.
The joy quickly dissipated. After two days, the gloves were off, and my sister was busy pointing out everything I am doing wrong with my life. The topics were wide ranging, and included everything from the way I placed money to pay bills at restaurants to the fact that she finds my husband and I nauseating. Within four or five days, we were barely on speaking terms, and I was sobbing every night. My husband couldn't take it any longer, and we agreed to go home early. We left, and my father was upset with ME for leaving, saying that whatever was going on was between me and my sister. When I asked him had he ever seen me cry the way I was, he admitted he had not.
Later that night, I told my sister I really didn't want things to end on a sour note. Her response was, "You gotta do what you gotta do, kid." That pretty much sums up her general attitude.
My father decided he would come to visit us this past week. My sister was supposed to go down and see her boyfriend, but she wound up not doing that and decided to accompany my father to see us and our new home, which we purchased while she was away. I was somewhat apprehensive, but I didn't want her to go back to Russia with us on a sour note. I decided that I would not let her get to me, no matter what she said, because, in the end, it's my decision to allow her to upset me or not, and to accept or reject anything she has to say about me or to me.
For the first day or so, everything went pretty well, and we were getting along, not saying anything hurtful etc. etc. After two days, however, the need for alcohol came over her and she went to the grocery store and bought some hard lemonade. She and my husband each had one, and the next night, we all went out to a piano bar, where she neatly put away 4 gin and tonics. When she left, the lemonades had mysteriously disappeared, and when I asked her where they were, she said she didn't know.
During her time here, she also got a new job offer, and I guess decided this meant she didn't need to be human any more. The highlight of the trip was when she sat me down and told me my life was "sh*t" to her. I thanked her and left the room. Her MO seems to be that she says what she wants to whomever she wants, and if that person responds, she escalates either by crying and saying how no one understands her or else by getting nastier and nastier until the other person is in tears.
I don't really know what to say, or what I particularly want or need in terms of support. She will be leaving the country again in September, and it'll be another 10 months before I see her. She is different around each one of us. She drinks openly every single night around my father and I, although I think she does sneak drinks in the night, as I think she did with the hard lemonades. I think she likes rubbing things in my face, trying to shock me. I have chosen not to allow that to happen any more. Where my mother is concerned, I think she does have some feelings for my mother's emotional state and doesn't drink openly around her.
My mother has returned to Al-Anon to get help with her emotional needs, leftovers from my grandparents and now adjusting to my sister. I don't know what I should do. Part of me refuses to allow her to ruffle my feathers any more. But a big part of me is still extremely sad about the way things are turning out. We were always so close and now it just seems that she hates me and will say anything and everything to get that point of view across. In the past 18 months, she has done everything she can--from doing stupid things to try and make my wedding uncomfortable to telling me afterwards how every single person in my family was miserable at my wedding and every reason why, to giving me a checklist of every one of my failings as a human being.
Today is my birthday, and she is willfully ignoring it. She always sends me checklists of things for care packages, has borrowed literally nearly a thousand of dollars from us, and when she comes here has a list of things she has been DYING for, but can't even spring 99 cents for a card or make a phone call on my father's dime. I feel taken advantage of, I feel hurt despite myself, and I guess, really, I am just so confused how this wonderful person has become so different, so difficult, so unlikeable. And despite it all, I love her! I would like nothing better than to restore our once close relationship. I could put the drinking aside, but her attitude while she is drinking makes mending things seem impossible. Additionally, my husband has decided he doesn't want to deal with this any more and he doesn't want much to do with her. So I'm kind of torn between the two of them.
On the one hand, while she is out of the country, this is not such a pressing issue. I can go on about my business, until her emails pop in and she either needs something or wants to detail her latest drunken escapades. Even then, I don't have to deal with her directly and can see what she is doing for the shock value. This summer, seeing her in the face to face, and seeing the changes in her, though, has brought all this to the forefront, and I really don't know how, or if, I should be dealing with any of it.
I would genuinely appreciate any and all comments or suggestions or recommendations, including if I am completely nuts and shouldn't be worried at all! I know this was long, so thank you for reading all of it. I really appreciate it.
Best,
Z.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hello Zoraima.
Welcome to the recovery forums!
Keep loving your sister. She is doing the smoke and mirrors routine. If she keeps the focus on you and everything you do wrong(even if she's making it up), then no one, including her, will get around to looking at what's wrong with her. And I would bet dollars to donuts that deep down she thinks there's plenty wrong with her. Knowing that probably won't make her behavior significantly less irritating, but at least feel assured that it really has nothing to do with you. She probably criticizes what you have because she feels what she has is not as good... so she must bring you down to her level.
It sounds like maybe you think going to alanon would be a sign that you're letting her get to you. Did I read that right? It may be. But it's also a way to learn how to keep her from getting to you.
I'm so glad you found us. Please keep posting!
Hugs,
Smoke
Welcome to the recovery forums!
Keep loving your sister. She is doing the smoke and mirrors routine. If she keeps the focus on you and everything you do wrong(even if she's making it up), then no one, including her, will get around to looking at what's wrong with her. And I would bet dollars to donuts that deep down she thinks there's plenty wrong with her. Knowing that probably won't make her behavior significantly less irritating, but at least feel assured that it really has nothing to do with you. She probably criticizes what you have because she feels what she has is not as good... so she must bring you down to her level.
It sounds like maybe you think going to alanon would be a sign that you're letting her get to you. Did I read that right? It may be. But it's also a way to learn how to keep her from getting to you.
I'm so glad you found us. Please keep posting!
Hugs,
Smoke
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 169
some books to try.......
Well, from listening to your story, it sounds like the situation with your sister might have to do with more than alcohol. Given her lifestyle that you describe, she may have a little personality disorder stuff going on, with all those highs and lows and outrageous things.
However, whether it's due to the booze or something else, sounds like you need to work on boundary issues. She doesn't have the right to step on your life, and as much as you think she needs it, you have no right to tell her what to do with hers.
Since you can't go to group meetings, there are some useful books to read. Try the book "Boundaries" by J. Cloud. It applies to all relationships, those with alcoholics and those with sober people who nonetheless drive us crazy.
Another exellent book is: "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. She illustrates how we let other people drive us nuts, whether from alcohol or other things, and how to recognize when you are reacting to events and start acting in your own best interest.
Also, alanon materials can be perchased on-line, so that you can get some of their books to read until you can get around to attending meetings. I think the site is: www.al-anon.alateen.org
However, whether it's due to the booze or something else, sounds like you need to work on boundary issues. She doesn't have the right to step on your life, and as much as you think she needs it, you have no right to tell her what to do with hers.
Since you can't go to group meetings, there are some useful books to read. Try the book "Boundaries" by J. Cloud. It applies to all relationships, those with alcoholics and those with sober people who nonetheless drive us crazy.
Another exellent book is: "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. She illustrates how we let other people drive us nuts, whether from alcohol or other things, and how to recognize when you are reacting to events and start acting in your own best interest.
Also, alanon materials can be perchased on-line, so that you can get some of their books to read until you can get around to attending meetings. I think the site is: www.al-anon.alateen.org
Queen of one liners
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: walking beside you! Not in front of you.
Posts: 658
Welcome Zoraima,
I have to agree both with Smoke and Eyes..
I would like to add alcoholism is a family disease that is multi-generasional....without help to stop the madness and emessment it just progresses....
There are a ton of suggestions for you to choose from...Read the Power Posts and the threads....Take what you can use and leave the rest....Go to Al-Anon asap....You'll meet some wonderful people who have been right where you are...
It doesn't seem to matter how much I love someone, IF they choose not to have a healthy relationship with me, it just won't happen....Do I love them anyway, YES, today I can ....I have to accept them warts and all. Do I accept unacceptable behavior? NOOOOO!
Keep coming back and let us know how you are doing...
Love and prayers from one who cares
I have to agree both with Smoke and Eyes..
I would like to add alcoholism is a family disease that is multi-generasional....without help to stop the madness and emessment it just progresses....
There are a ton of suggestions for you to choose from...Read the Power Posts and the threads....Take what you can use and leave the rest....Go to Al-Anon asap....You'll meet some wonderful people who have been right where you are...
It doesn't seem to matter how much I love someone, IF they choose not to have a healthy relationship with me, it just won't happen....Do I love them anyway, YES, today I can ....I have to accept them warts and all. Do I accept unacceptable behavior? NOOOOO!
Keep coming back and let us know how you are doing...
Love and prayers from one who cares
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wish I knew
Posts: 428
Sounds to me like you are doing all that you can do.I am too new here to offer any good advice, but, again, it seems like you are going ok.
My possibly wrong advice is to grin and bear it until she leaves the country again!!!
My possibly wrong advice is to grin and bear it until she leaves the country again!!!
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
I agree with all of the above and want to stress "boundaries". When we grow up with alcoholism we don't learn where we end and another begins. Forming and sticking with boundaries can often help define an entirely new relationship.
There is no need to accept unacceptable behavior.
Good luck!
JT
There is no need to accept unacceptable behavior.
Good luck!
JT
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 62
Alanon would help you so much , your sister is putting all her bad feelings about herself on to you, you said before the drinking, you and your sister were really close, Unfortunately they do hurt the ones they love the most. This is about her, you need to take care of you.
In alanon you will learn how your sister is suffering from an illness called alcoholism, and that you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it, you will learn how to detach from your sisters problems with love in your heart, and more impotantly you will learn to love and take care of yourself and your own needs.
Give it a try, going to alanon was the best thing I have ever done for myself in my life.
Let us know how things go
Love Jewel
In alanon you will learn how your sister is suffering from an illness called alcoholism, and that you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it, you will learn how to detach from your sisters problems with love in your heart, and more impotantly you will learn to love and take care of yourself and your own needs.
Give it a try, going to alanon was the best thing I have ever done for myself in my life.
Let us know how things go
Love Jewel
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