Barbara52

As far as I know, the only way to make sure those extra self loathing pains go away (or lessen) is to deal with whatever issues you may have that bring those feeings out.

LaTeeDa

Agreed. I didn't choose to have a codependent mother and an alcoholic father. I didn't choose to grow up in an extended family that judged women less worthy than men. Damage was done to me by external circumstances.

However, I did choose for a long time to say things like "that's just how I am, there's nothing I can do about it." That was my choice, and it amplified and prolonged the pain.

We all have things in our past that have damaged us emotionally. And we all have the choice to let it continue to affect us in a negative way, or to examine it and learn from it and move forward from it in a healthy way.

Sorry if any of this makes you feel defensive. I am only speaking from my own experience and with no intention of disparaging you.

L

nowwhat

I struggle a lot with the line between accepting responsibility and being terribly critical of myself. I tend toward the latter, and I want to stop being so unkind to myself. I am not this way with anyone else. I almost never let myself off the hook, while letting others off the hook without their even asking me to.

I also struggle a lot with the line between accepting the imperfections of others and accepting being mistreated. While I would never accept blatant abuse, I obviously have a hard time discerning the more subtle stuff. My programming from childhood is that I'm too sensitive. That message is a complete mind F. It's like being told that your own mind doesn't work correctly and can't be trusted.

I guess I'm feeling defensive because it seemed you are blaming me for not being where you are yet. And I truly do not find any of this comfortable at all. Stimulating, perhaps, and addictive--but it's not comfortable on any conscious level.

123bubblegum123

He refuses to take any responsibility for any of his crappy actions and basically says he doesn't want a committed relationship.

That right there is enough of a reason to move on. Men are fairly simple and you cant force someone to love you or even to respect you. Cut your losses and try embracing your single status.

ItsmeAlice

Nowwhat,

Growing up, I was told I wasn't good enough, pretty enough, smart enough, thin enough etc etc. As an adult, I had stopped listening to that kind of verbal slog from others, but I never stopped saying it to myself. When something didn't go my way, I told myself it was because I wasn't good enough or (fill in the blank) enough, whatever applied at the time. It was never just the way it was or God's will or because another opportunity awaited me.

As my ABF's addiction became a bigger and bigger part of my life, I had more things to say to myself about why I wasn't smart enough to cure him, lovable enough to make him seek sobriety on and on. When I wasn't blaming him, I was blaming me.

BUT let someone else point out how I have contributed to the situation I am in and I feel my defensive teeth start to gnash. I have told myself over and over that I'm to blame for not taking care of myself, letting my hurt feelings turn into an eating disorder, not setting healthy boundaries, enabling him by taking on the consequences of his addiction, but when someone else points it out, it feels like an attack and I run.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that you can tell my ABF 100 times what he has done wrong and he could not care in the least. He takes no accountability. Anytime, he feels bad, he drinks and the problem is solved. I'm the one who fields all the blame AND all the hurt.

What I did finally learn here at SR is that recovering from a life with an active addict and from being addicted in a way to that life, starts from within. I had to denounce the self loathing thoughts I had been beating myself up with since I was a child. Every day I have to suppress those thoughts and not repeat the same damaging behaviors that come from them. I have to stop the enabling, the blaming, and letting myself get in harms way when it is avoidable.

I still fall into habits that are unhealthy for me. I still have unrelenting self doubt that I can ever leave and be strong on my own again. However, now I am grateful when someone points these weaknesses out to me because I can sneak something in without realizing I am sabotaging my own chance for a healthy life.

If you come away from this thread with anything, I hope it's the knowledge that we are NOT here to tell you how wrong you are or how behind you are in your recovery. We tell you our experiences so you can maybe look ahead and see the path you want to take. Maybe someone else's story rings true for you and you can gain some confidence that the path they took could help you.

Feeling defensive is a natural response. Keep posting, and we can all help you work through that feeling.

Peace
Alice

LaTeeDa

These are all excellent insights, and I can relate to all of them. And I have learned over the past few years that I share these struggles with other ACOA's. Did you by any chance, grow up with an alcoholic parent? Just curious.

I spent most of my life trying to prove to the outside world how "perfect" and "together" I was, while at the same time beating myself up internally for not being "perfect" and "together." I lived in fear that people would discover my flaws, so I worked even harder on convincing them and punishing myself for falling short.

That fear was based on the fear of being unloved and abandoned, which again, I learned as a child. When I performed correctly, I was lavished with love and praise. When I fell short, I was shamed and scolded. This is quite common in alcoholic families.

The same fears led me to put up with abuse, neglect, and crappy treatment later in life because I wanted so much to be loved and appreciated. I somehow thought the harder I worked at getting someone to love me, the more they would love me. And, you guessed it, that came from my parents, too.

I want you to know that 'blaming' you for where you are at is the farthest thing from my mind. When I started working on myself and digging into those dark, shadowy corners of my psyche 3 years ago, I was blown away that I could have possibly been so messed up for so long and not even known it. I share here because I am living proof that it is possible to overcome the old habits, behaviors, ideas, and mental programming that made me miserable for most of my 46 years on this earth.

I've also learned that when a post on this board "ruffles my feathers," it's usually an issue that I need to look at more closely. Thankfully, it doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to.

Do I have everything figured out? Is my life perfect now? Hell no! But I am miles from where I was and getting stronger all the time. If I can do it, anyone can. And now, looking back on those beginning days, when I was afraid to even open up to my therapist (!), I wonder what I was so scared of.

L

MissFixit

Hey Nowwhat,

I understand your pain, lonliness and defensiveness right now. I was very defensive (and get that way from time to time) about my role in the relationship with the ex.

This thinking comes to us at first (I guess) because we are so damned mad at the situation. It was out of our control and we didn't know that. There are stages of grief (I'm sure you are well aware). I forget the order but anger is a big one.

A lot of folks here are further along in the process. They have moved on in their lives, which is a really healthy way to be IMO.

I think you have been aware of what is going on, but are now getting crystal clear on just what this man is capable of/made of. You might have thought he was different. The sad/scary thing is that if he acts this way now, then imagine the out of the blue nightmares that are waiting years down the road with him.

You have every right to be mad, hurt and lonely. He was a jerk. However, after going through the "he is a jerk" anger, then I am finding that the healthy thing for me is to firgure out why the hell I got involved and stayed there. What did I want from him? What did I want for me? I wanted a partner. I loved him and we got along. As his disease progressed, I changed my behavior to suit his behavior. I didn't notice that at the time. Even my thinking changed. Now I am having to undo those unhealthy changes and go back to me, but even healthier.

It is hard at times and I spend a lot of time feeling lonely. However, I am no good to me or anyone else until I get a handle on my life/feelings/motives and standards for others around (not making excuses for them).

I have 1000000% confidence in you and your light at the end of this mess. It is SSSLLLLOOOWWWWW. But, truly it gets easier with time (I hate it when people say that to me).

I hope you feel better.

Miss

nowwhat

I don't think so (though they both seem to drink a lot these days). But an extremely dysfunctional one. My parents are both highly educated, very self-absorbed, and cold. They never hugged us or told us they loved us. My mother says that "wasn't the fashion" at that time, but I can still remember the envy I felt toward my friends whose parents paid attention to them, stuck up for them, and were affectionate.

Tonight my middle child was talking about how he can't wait to see XABF and his son, so he can show them his new Lego toys. I feel miserable. I don't know what to tell him--knowing that he needs to know the truth but not wanting him to hurt.

I also know if I tell my children about the break up, it will be final. I can never allow them on this roller coaster.

I want XABF to call me so that I can ignore his call. But he won't call. I need to tell myself I will never talk to him again, and mean it. I will miss him so much, even though I haven't enjoyed being with him for a long, long time. It's sick and it's pathetic and it's true.

I am really afraid of all of this.

In my family, there was no love or praise, ever. When I was successful--for instance getting an A on a college paper--my mother would say "now think how well you could do if you REALLY tried? Because I was an underachieving, rebellious person. I always wondered how much better I could do than perfect papers? I received a lot of accolades in college from my professors, all encouraging me to go into academia, and my mother's response was that I wasn't REALLY trying hard.

She also blamed ME for my failed marriage. My XAH was a bipolar addict who was completely absent and irresponsible, but she felt that I was just too emotional and sensitive, and that the problem was with me.

Yes, I thought he was different. He said he was different. We dissected our childhoods, failed marriages and parenting woes. He said I was the smartest, funniest, sweetest, sexiest woman he'd ever known. He said he wanted to grow old with me. He said these things all the time.

Ago

My thinking causes my problems.

Every time.

My Family of Origin installed my thinking.

My experiences installed my thinking.

I have a genetic predisposition to be an alcoholic.

I didn't choose to be an alcoholic or codependent, but I "chose" to get sober and work on my codependency issues.

The only way to change my situation and circumstances is to change my thinking.

I can't use my own brain to change my thinking, it's what causes my problems. So, if I can't change my own thinking with my own brain, what's left?

For me, the answer was ask for help. Help from a therapist, help from groups.

I can self analyze until I'm blue in the face, and I will be right back in the same situation, because nothing changed.

Have you thought about going to Alanon? Therapy? getting down to the real nitty gritty? Really addressing the reasons you chose this man? About getting help from someone who isn't you?

I too had a "story" why I ended up "saving my family" and "involved in an unhealthy relationship". Why I ended up so sick.

The story made perfect sense to me, unfortunately it didn't have a solution for me. My brain made that story up. The same brain that got me in that mess. My thinking will lead me back to the same situation over and over, and I'll have "a story" every. single. time. about how it wasn't "my fault". It's always a unique set of circumstance that led me to that particular situation.

Until I sat down and wrote those stories out next to each other and went over them with a sponsor ad therapist I never saw the patterns.

I just did the same thing over and over and didn't even see it.

That's what they mean when they say, "If nothing changes, nothing changes" they aren't talking about changing Boyfriends/husbands/wives/Girlfriends.

They are talking about changing themselves.

When I was in your shoes, I got help.

It helped so much I can't begin to even explain.

I used to be you, but I'm not anymore.

I'm not saying you have done anything wrong by any means, we all make bad choices, but can you entertain the idea that getting help might be helpful to you?

bluejay6

Wow. That last line really got me. Do these addicts all use the same handbook? All those lovely things he said to you.....I had that experience, too, and was then completely shocked when my guy disappeared. Do they get high off their own charm? Do they get high off the posing?

In the book "The Addictive Personality" the author describes two types of addicts: the power seekers and the pleasure seekers.

Some addicts have both inclinations but some are more one personality than the other. The power seekers demand a dominant-submissive relationship. They also need to look powerful to the world: cars, money, whatever they equate with power. And they are predatory and seek ways to accumulate more power. Cocaine particularly attracts these guys because of the power rush and feeling invulnerable to the world.

The pleasure seeking addicts want to receive pleasure and give pleasure. These are the addicts who end up on a beach in Hawaii high on heroin. It's not about power, it's about the euphoria.

It makes me wonder if the addicts who are so talented at wooing us with those beautiful words are the pleasure seekers, and in their presence, we become intoxicated, too.
We "escape" the clear signs of their BEHAVIOR which belies the commitment we think we are receiving from them. We are in our own trance.

Nowwhat, I miss mine, too. He had been many years in recovery but was relapsing and lying all over the place. And I believed every word, in spite of his erratic actions, because he had me convinced I was his heavenly angel.

It feels so awful, doesn't it? A friend of mine went through the same thing with her ABF and she calls it being "blindsided". It takes a long time to recover from because it is so unimaginable to us, this kind of behavior.

I'm different now. You will be too. I really like how discerning I am now, how careful. But I had to hold on through the stages of grief to get here. Actually, I'm still not at "acceptance" yet. But at least I'm miles away from the first stage: denial.

Like I said way back, you need to be kind to yourself. They have a lot of power. They do a lot of damage. And they do that to ANYONE within their sphere, no matter that person's background or upbringing.

nowwhat

I have been seeing a therapist, but I can't say that she has been very helpful. She seems a little too interested in him, and not really helpful in identifying what it is in me that needs to change. She does think I'm codependent.

This makes a lot of sense to me. XABF is hedonistic and can't deal with discomfort, at all.

Yes, I think they do have the same handbook. I have been reading a lot about narcissism, because my therapist thinks XABF has these tendencies. It all rings very true to me. The good news, if it can be called that, is that if he is a narcissist, the ONLY solution is a complete no-contact, obliterated relationship. I know that is what I need to do now.

Barbara52

Time for a new therapist perhaps, one who will help you focus on you.

FreeBird09

Thank you, this helped ME..

gowest

First of all I feel from reading all your posts recently that we could be living the same life. (Or at least had similar boyfriend experiences and some similar upbringing.)

I hope it helps to know that there are other intelligent "reasonably together" women out there who are dealing with parallel circumstances.

And bluejay's comments hit home for me:
Wow. That last line really got me. Do these addicts all use the same handbook? All those lovely things he said to you.....I had that experience, too, and was then completely shocked when my guy disappeared.

In the beginning my exrabf actions and words seemed to fit but by the end it was as if I was in a relationship with two different people. The "sober J" and the "addict J". I really miss the "sober J" but he is no where to be found.

I want to relate my experience about finding the appropriate therapist. This is my second try at therapy. I did not realize that 10 years ago when I first went that my therapist was either not good or not good enough. It makes a huge difference.

My current therapist said that some of the "very best people you will ever find on the planet are in recovery" BUT that they actually have to be in recovery. My EXRABF's recovery was not strong enough.

This current therapist suggested I try Alanon in conjunction with therapy. It really has been worth it.