where do i begin?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
where do i begin?
My H is an alcoholic. I don't know if he knows that he is one, but he has all of the signs. I don't know how to figure out my role in all of this. I certainly have signs of co dependence and I was reading the Alcoholism is a tragic three act play thread at the top of this page. We are clearly in the end of Act 1 - quickly moving to Act 2. H's alcoholism began after he had an affair and we began to work on fixing our m. I think that the alcohol took the place of the high he got from his affair. In both cases, he is escaping. I don't know how to fix this. I don't mean him. I mean me. Where do I start?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Hi Alegra,
Some things that have helped a lot of folks in your position have been:
Reading the book "Codependent No More", which is a terrific guide to OUR involvement in relationships like this (why, how, what to do)
Reading the other Stickies at the top of the forum....Read other peoples' stories. Many people have found themselves where you are, and have tried different things. Reading what they did, what helped them, what didn't...all of that can be really strengthening.
Personal counseling. I know that I probably would not be here if not for the help of individual counseling that helped me see what I was doing and why. It helped put the focus back on me, helped me set better boundaries and protect them, and made my life lots happier.
Al-Anon meetings. Friends & family of alcoholics have lots in common, and these face-to-face meetings can be a precious source of support and community in this delicate time for you.
Think about any combination of the above.....I'm glad you found us!! We're another helpful thing
Some things that have helped a lot of folks in your position have been:
Reading the book "Codependent No More", which is a terrific guide to OUR involvement in relationships like this (why, how, what to do)
Reading the other Stickies at the top of the forum....Read other peoples' stories. Many people have found themselves where you are, and have tried different things. Reading what they did, what helped them, what didn't...all of that can be really strengthening.
Personal counseling. I know that I probably would not be here if not for the help of individual counseling that helped me see what I was doing and why. It helped put the focus back on me, helped me set better boundaries and protect them, and made my life lots happier.
Al-Anon meetings. Friends & family of alcoholics have lots in common, and these face-to-face meetings can be a precious source of support and community in this delicate time for you.
Think about any combination of the above.....I'm glad you found us!! We're another helpful thing
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Hi Givelove - thank you for your reply.
I continued to the read the stickies and found the following questions about step 1. I answered them the best I could and as honestly as I could:
Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ~ that our lives had become unmanageable.
Do I accept that I cannot control another person’s drinking? Another person’s behavior?
I’m trying.
How do I recognize that the alcoholic is an individual with habits, characteristics and ways of reacting to daily happenings that are different from mine?
I don’t.
Do I accept that alcoholism is a disease? How does that change how I deal with a drinker?
In theory I can agree that alcoholism is a disease, although I’m not sure what the implications of that are. When I think of the alcoholic as diseased I immediately switch into “caretaker” mode and try to control the actions of the alcoholic. I don’t understand how someone can be “ill” and not want to help him/herself become healthy. That isn’t logical to me. I’m frustrated that alcoholism has been deemed a disease. I see alcoholism as a choice of behavior, whereas a disease is something that a person has absolutely no control over – it’s something that has just happened to them. I can see clear behavior patterns in the alcoholic in my life – I can see where they have chosen the path of alcoholism rather than health.
How have I tried to change others in my life? What were the consequences?
I’m not sure about this. I think I mostly try to garner support or affection from others . . .I have done this in many ways, though I find that now, I more isolate myself from others.
What means have I used to get what I want and need? What might work better to get my needs met?
I have lied, cried, pouted, ignored, shunned, checked out – I could be better at identifying my actual needs and then discovering ways in which I can meet my own needs and then ask others, outright, if I need additional help.
How do I feel when the alcoholic refuses to be and do what I want? How do I respond?
I get extremely frustrated. My main desire is to have the alcoholic stop drinking. I hate that he drinks – hate it. I feel rejected and unloved, unwanted, abandoned, alone, on my own, without a partner, isolated, desolate, desperate, unsatisfied, wanting more, frustrated, pissed off, angry, unloving, hateful, resentful. I usually sulk, or sink into my own world and do my own thing. I try not to engage him and I keep my distance. I don’t want to interact with him at all. I’m scared that our interactions will turn ugly – he usually finds such fault with me when he has been drinking. Everything I do, or have done in the past, becomes fodder for criticism.
What would happen if I stopped trying to change the alcoholic or anyone else?
I don’t know how to stop wanting the alcoholic to stop drinking. How does one do that. I feel like my attempts to change others is a really bad habit. I know that isn’t good behavior. I know that I can stand on my own two feet. I know that there are people that do like me without me having to try so hard, or manipulate them.
How can I let go of others’ problems instead of trying to solve them?
I feel like the alcoholic’s problem is my problem.
Am I looking for a quick fix to my problems? Is there one?
Yes, I would love for a quick fix. I don’t think there is one.
In what situations do I feel excessive responsibility for other people?
When my husband and I are around my family I feel excessive responsibility for him. I feel as though I must protect him from my family. My father is especially verbally abusive and though not diagnosed exhibits strong tendencies of NPD. If things aren’t about him, he isn’t interested in being apart of it.
In what situations do I feel shame or embarrassment for someone else’s behavior?
I’m ashamed that my husband isn’t working. I’m ashamed of his amount of drinking. I’m ashamed of my family and how they have treated him. I’m ashamed that he had an affair. I’m ashamed that this relationship is essentially failing.
What brought me to Al-Anon? What did I hope to gain at that time? How have my expectations changed?
A friend from another on-line help site directed me here. At the time I hoped to put an end to the problems in my marriage. My expectations have changed a bit in that I realize that I have work to do on me. My relationship with my AH should be secondary – and it’s getting there. I’m not quite there yet, but I’m working towards that.
Who has expressed concern about my behavior? My health? My children? Give examples.
A good friend of mine at work knows about the state of my marriage. She has expressed her concern that I’m still in this relationship. She doesn’t know all of the ins and outs of the relationship problems, but she is concerned. My mother has expressed concerns for me and AH. She is also unaware of the alcoholism, but she is aware that times are tough for the both of us. She can tell there is something going on.
How do I know when my life is unmanageable?
I’m getting to that point. I haven’t ever truly felt that life is completely unmanageable, but I am getting to the point where I just don’t know what to do anymore. We’re struggling to make ends meet (and by “we” I mean me) as H is not working right now, he has become an alcoholic, we’ve been abandoned by my extended family (this is another story entirely) and there is a rift between us and my dad.
How have I sought approval and affirmation from others?
Hmmm . . . I always feel a twinge of “something” when I don’t get the approval of my peers. I feel as though I have to do something differently, or that I have done the right thing. I don’t feel comfortable when they disagree with me or offer a differing view point. In many ways I associate agreement with my ideas as acceptance of who I am.
Do I say “yes” when I want to say “no”? What happens to my ability to manage my life when I do this?
No, not usually.
Do I take care of others easily, but find it difficult to care for myself?
No, I’m more selfish.
How do I feel when life is going smoothly? Do I continually anticipate problems? Do I feel more alive in the midst of a crisis?
I don’t know what it’s like to have life go smoothly. Ever since I have been married, I have faced nothing but turmoil. I always anticipate problems. In the face of a crisis, I usually retreat and shut everyone out of my life.
How well do I take care of myself?
I don’t take the best care of myself, but I am beginning to exercise regularly and eat more properly. I’m enjoying the workouts and the time I spend with my friend – we work out together 3 times a week and we’re having a blast doing so.
How do I feel when I am alone?
Sad, lonely, bored, tired, sometimes refreshed, recharged.
What is the difference between pity and love?
Pity – is feeling badly that someone is in the situation they are in.
Love - a mutual deep caring for one another in which you seek the best for one another no matter the circumstances
Am I attracted to alcoholics and other people who seem to need me to fix them? How have I tried to fix them?
Seeing as how this is the only alcoholic I have ever dated/married, I don’t think that I’m usually attracted to alcoholics. I never saw this coming. I am completely blindsided by this – and extremely frustrated, and disappointed. I am quick to offer advice to my friends, though, and probably could be a better listener.
Do I trust my own feelings? Do I know what they are?
Sometimes. I usually know why I feel what I do and why. I have also noticed that many times my feelings revolve around acceptance or the lack thereof. It’s frustrating to always need the acceptance of others – I don’t understand why that is so important to me. It annoys me and makes me feel weak. I feel as though I should be more confident/independent than that. Sometimes I don’t know why I feel what I do and that is equally as frustrating. I spend the time to really think about it and try to identify it. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can’t.
I continued to the read the stickies and found the following questions about step 1. I answered them the best I could and as honestly as I could:
Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ~ that our lives had become unmanageable.
Do I accept that I cannot control another person’s drinking? Another person’s behavior?
I’m trying.
How do I recognize that the alcoholic is an individual with habits, characteristics and ways of reacting to daily happenings that are different from mine?
I don’t.
Do I accept that alcoholism is a disease? How does that change how I deal with a drinker?
In theory I can agree that alcoholism is a disease, although I’m not sure what the implications of that are. When I think of the alcoholic as diseased I immediately switch into “caretaker” mode and try to control the actions of the alcoholic. I don’t understand how someone can be “ill” and not want to help him/herself become healthy. That isn’t logical to me. I’m frustrated that alcoholism has been deemed a disease. I see alcoholism as a choice of behavior, whereas a disease is something that a person has absolutely no control over – it’s something that has just happened to them. I can see clear behavior patterns in the alcoholic in my life – I can see where they have chosen the path of alcoholism rather than health.
How have I tried to change others in my life? What were the consequences?
I’m not sure about this. I think I mostly try to garner support or affection from others . . .I have done this in many ways, though I find that now, I more isolate myself from others.
What means have I used to get what I want and need? What might work better to get my needs met?
I have lied, cried, pouted, ignored, shunned, checked out – I could be better at identifying my actual needs and then discovering ways in which I can meet my own needs and then ask others, outright, if I need additional help.
How do I feel when the alcoholic refuses to be and do what I want? How do I respond?
I get extremely frustrated. My main desire is to have the alcoholic stop drinking. I hate that he drinks – hate it. I feel rejected and unloved, unwanted, abandoned, alone, on my own, without a partner, isolated, desolate, desperate, unsatisfied, wanting more, frustrated, pissed off, angry, unloving, hateful, resentful. I usually sulk, or sink into my own world and do my own thing. I try not to engage him and I keep my distance. I don’t want to interact with him at all. I’m scared that our interactions will turn ugly – he usually finds such fault with me when he has been drinking. Everything I do, or have done in the past, becomes fodder for criticism.
What would happen if I stopped trying to change the alcoholic or anyone else?
I don’t know how to stop wanting the alcoholic to stop drinking. How does one do that. I feel like my attempts to change others is a really bad habit. I know that isn’t good behavior. I know that I can stand on my own two feet. I know that there are people that do like me without me having to try so hard, or manipulate them.
How can I let go of others’ problems instead of trying to solve them?
I feel like the alcoholic’s problem is my problem.
Am I looking for a quick fix to my problems? Is there one?
Yes, I would love for a quick fix. I don’t think there is one.
In what situations do I feel excessive responsibility for other people?
When my husband and I are around my family I feel excessive responsibility for him. I feel as though I must protect him from my family. My father is especially verbally abusive and though not diagnosed exhibits strong tendencies of NPD. If things aren’t about him, he isn’t interested in being apart of it.
In what situations do I feel shame or embarrassment for someone else’s behavior?
I’m ashamed that my husband isn’t working. I’m ashamed of his amount of drinking. I’m ashamed of my family and how they have treated him. I’m ashamed that he had an affair. I’m ashamed that this relationship is essentially failing.
What brought me to Al-Anon? What did I hope to gain at that time? How have my expectations changed?
A friend from another on-line help site directed me here. At the time I hoped to put an end to the problems in my marriage. My expectations have changed a bit in that I realize that I have work to do on me. My relationship with my AH should be secondary – and it’s getting there. I’m not quite there yet, but I’m working towards that.
Who has expressed concern about my behavior? My health? My children? Give examples.
A good friend of mine at work knows about the state of my marriage. She has expressed her concern that I’m still in this relationship. She doesn’t know all of the ins and outs of the relationship problems, but she is concerned. My mother has expressed concerns for me and AH. She is also unaware of the alcoholism, but she is aware that times are tough for the both of us. She can tell there is something going on.
How do I know when my life is unmanageable?
I’m getting to that point. I haven’t ever truly felt that life is completely unmanageable, but I am getting to the point where I just don’t know what to do anymore. We’re struggling to make ends meet (and by “we” I mean me) as H is not working right now, he has become an alcoholic, we’ve been abandoned by my extended family (this is another story entirely) and there is a rift between us and my dad.
How have I sought approval and affirmation from others?
Hmmm . . . I always feel a twinge of “something” when I don’t get the approval of my peers. I feel as though I have to do something differently, or that I have done the right thing. I don’t feel comfortable when they disagree with me or offer a differing view point. In many ways I associate agreement with my ideas as acceptance of who I am.
Do I say “yes” when I want to say “no”? What happens to my ability to manage my life when I do this?
No, not usually.
Do I take care of others easily, but find it difficult to care for myself?
No, I’m more selfish.
How do I feel when life is going smoothly? Do I continually anticipate problems? Do I feel more alive in the midst of a crisis?
I don’t know what it’s like to have life go smoothly. Ever since I have been married, I have faced nothing but turmoil. I always anticipate problems. In the face of a crisis, I usually retreat and shut everyone out of my life.
How well do I take care of myself?
I don’t take the best care of myself, but I am beginning to exercise regularly and eat more properly. I’m enjoying the workouts and the time I spend with my friend – we work out together 3 times a week and we’re having a blast doing so.
How do I feel when I am alone?
Sad, lonely, bored, tired, sometimes refreshed, recharged.
What is the difference between pity and love?
Pity – is feeling badly that someone is in the situation they are in.
Love - a mutual deep caring for one another in which you seek the best for one another no matter the circumstances
Am I attracted to alcoholics and other people who seem to need me to fix them? How have I tried to fix them?
Seeing as how this is the only alcoholic I have ever dated/married, I don’t think that I’m usually attracted to alcoholics. I never saw this coming. I am completely blindsided by this – and extremely frustrated, and disappointed. I am quick to offer advice to my friends, though, and probably could be a better listener.
Do I trust my own feelings? Do I know what they are?
Sometimes. I usually know why I feel what I do and why. I have also noticed that many times my feelings revolve around acceptance or the lack thereof. It’s frustrating to always need the acceptance of others – I don’t understand why that is so important to me. It annoys me and makes me feel weak. I feel as though I should be more confident/independent than that. Sometimes I don’t know why I feel what I do and that is equally as frustrating. I spend the time to really think about it and try to identify it. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can’t.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Welcome, Alegra. You are already searching your heart, examining your thinking and behavior, and looking outside yourself for concrete information. I think so far you have a strong start! So be careful not to scrutinize yourself too much, because believe me, the A always chips away at our self-esteem and the last thing you need is to add to that yourself.
What you want to do is self-examine so that you can FIND your shining self, your true self, your basic values, your bottom line, and then proceed with action when you are clear on all that. So al-anon or counseling or both can help very much with this.
I have read that there is often a personality change within the addict before the addict behavior ever becomes apparent. Your belief that his addiction began when you were working on the marriage after the affair may be incorrect, and as a result you may unconsciously feel somehow responsible for the "stress" between him and you that "makes" him feel he "needs" a drink.
The man needs a drink because the man is an alcoholic and that's the end of that. It has nothing to do with the state of your marriage or whether you irritated him or whether he's working or not or the father in law is his enemy or not. NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with his drinking.
So keep reading, and talking to others in recovery, for the First Step....the acceptance that you are powerless over alcohol.... means you have no control over the fact that the man is going to drink wherever and whenever he pleases no matter if everything in his life is working great or is going down the tubes. He will still drink, rain or shine.
What your challenge will be is how you make choices for you. One piece of advice I find useful: whatever you've been doing regarding his drinking....do the opposite. Because our "normal" reactions are usually the worst possible response to the addict and does nothing to interrupt the roller coaster ride.
There are so many wise people here. Post often and read often and you will find things will start to shift for you. What IS certain is his drinking will continue and it will get worse, so don't hope you can just maintain the status quo. The status quo is going to fall apart.
You are on the road to recovery. Please take care of yourself.
What you want to do is self-examine so that you can FIND your shining self, your true self, your basic values, your bottom line, and then proceed with action when you are clear on all that. So al-anon or counseling or both can help very much with this.
I have read that there is often a personality change within the addict before the addict behavior ever becomes apparent. Your belief that his addiction began when you were working on the marriage after the affair may be incorrect, and as a result you may unconsciously feel somehow responsible for the "stress" between him and you that "makes" him feel he "needs" a drink.
The man needs a drink because the man is an alcoholic and that's the end of that. It has nothing to do with the state of your marriage or whether you irritated him or whether he's working or not or the father in law is his enemy or not. NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with his drinking.
So keep reading, and talking to others in recovery, for the First Step....the acceptance that you are powerless over alcohol.... means you have no control over the fact that the man is going to drink wherever and whenever he pleases no matter if everything in his life is working great or is going down the tubes. He will still drink, rain or shine.
What your challenge will be is how you make choices for you. One piece of advice I find useful: whatever you've been doing regarding his drinking....do the opposite. Because our "normal" reactions are usually the worst possible response to the addict and does nothing to interrupt the roller coaster ride.
There are so many wise people here. Post often and read often and you will find things will start to shift for you. What IS certain is his drinking will continue and it will get worse, so don't hope you can just maintain the status quo. The status quo is going to fall apart.
You are on the road to recovery. Please take care of yourself.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
welcome!!!
That it's progressive and incurable, probably genetic, and extremely 'treatable'. You mentioned 'his alcoholism began', what you were seeing was the progression of the disease through it's stages, though some folks still refer to it as an invisible line, I don't believe that particular theory.
Because alcoholism is a form of mental illness. You no doubt have heard of folk with other types of mental illness refuse treatment?
So, you really don't accept the idea that alcoholism is a disease.
If you do a little reading in the Friends & Family section, and further research in other places, you'll discover something very interesting, alcoholics not in recovery act the same way, like they're reading from the same script. As do codependents. The only thing we do, is we have to treat the alcoholic like they do have a choice.
Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support here.
Originally Posted by Alegra 
In theory I can agree that alcoholism is a disease, although I’m not sure what the implications of that are.
Originally Posted by Alegra
I don’t understand how someone can be “ill” and not want to help him/herself become healthy. That isn’t logical to me. I’m frustrated that alcoholism has been deemed a disease.
Originally Posted by Alegra
I see alcoholism as a choice of behavior, whereas a disease is something that a person has absolutely no control over – it’s something that has just happened to them.
Originally Posted by Alegra
I can see clear behavior patterns in the alcoholic in my life – I can see where they have chosen the path of alcoholism rather than health.
Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support here.
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