Codependency-Nuts and Bolts
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Codependency-Nuts and Bolts
I attended an incredible class today about being in touch with your feelings, and how important it is to be able to recognize and manage them in order to grow mentally and spiritually.
It dealt with both alcoholism and codependency, and the one thing they both need and have in common in order to exist.
Denial
She listed the traits of denial
Lying
Excuses
Rationalization
Manipulation
"Hiding"
Blaming
Judgmental
Justification
Resentment
and mentioned to especially watch for the "yeah buts" and "I know"
She mentioned that all of these take place to yourself first, others second.
I am a sober alcoholic. For many years my only experience with codependency (that I was aware of) was with the woman I was involved with when I initially got sober. She was so nasty to me both before but especially after I got sober, I felt towards codependents the same way many of you feel about active alcoholics. She was incredibly harmful and controlling, interspersed with incredibly loving and wonderful, especially after I got sober, then she got REALLY nasty. I repeated this experience 15 years later on even a grander scale.
Now, many years later, I have a bit more experience with it, on both sides of the dynamic. I am, in the parlance, a "double winner". It's akin to if many of you, after years of suffering at the hands of an active alcoholic, spent years in therapy, healed, moved on from your abusive relationship, and woke up one day to find yourself an active alcoholic. I became the very thing I feared and loathed.
My God has a sense of humor a small boy who pulls the wings off flies would readily relate to.
Anyway, this class was incredible, it has made me think all day long. The Counselor is also a "double winner" we spoke for awhile after the class, she gave me some amazing insights into some "stepwork" I was "stuck" on (step six for those that have worked the steps, I recently discovered there is a little more to it then I previously thought)
When I got to my computer, I looked up codependency and found this:
Codependency and the enabling behavior
I still have so much work to do......
I recognize both myself in this and some "exes"
Eventually I got to a point in my life and sobriety where I got "complacent" and I started repeating my "family of origin" behavior after years of therapy and stepwork, proof to me that "old thinking" will be with me forever if I don't actively stay on top of it.
I never, ever ever want to get as sick as I got with codependency again.
It was not only more painful to live with then active alcoholism, it was harder to get help from, because I wasn't the one with "the problem" (I thought)
Codependency is by far, bar none, the most painful and confusing experience I have ever gone through.
I wish us all well.
It dealt with both alcoholism and codependency, and the one thing they both need and have in common in order to exist.
Denial
She listed the traits of denial
Lying
Excuses
Rationalization
Manipulation
"Hiding"
Blaming
Judgmental
Justification
Resentment
and mentioned to especially watch for the "yeah buts" and "I know"
She mentioned that all of these take place to yourself first, others second.
I am a sober alcoholic. For many years my only experience with codependency (that I was aware of) was with the woman I was involved with when I initially got sober. She was so nasty to me both before but especially after I got sober, I felt towards codependents the same way many of you feel about active alcoholics. She was incredibly harmful and controlling, interspersed with incredibly loving and wonderful, especially after I got sober, then she got REALLY nasty. I repeated this experience 15 years later on even a grander scale.
Now, many years later, I have a bit more experience with it, on both sides of the dynamic. I am, in the parlance, a "double winner". It's akin to if many of you, after years of suffering at the hands of an active alcoholic, spent years in therapy, healed, moved on from your abusive relationship, and woke up one day to find yourself an active alcoholic. I became the very thing I feared and loathed.
My God has a sense of humor a small boy who pulls the wings off flies would readily relate to.
Anyway, this class was incredible, it has made me think all day long. The Counselor is also a "double winner" we spoke for awhile after the class, she gave me some amazing insights into some "stepwork" I was "stuck" on (step six for those that have worked the steps, I recently discovered there is a little more to it then I previously thought)
When I got to my computer, I looked up codependency and found this:
Codependency and the enabling behavior
For a long time, alcohol addiction was considered a problem that affects only the alcoholic. The alcoholic was perceived as a bad person without ambition that can be cured only if separated from their family and with the help of other alcoholics.
Nowadays, alcohol addiction is considered a family problem (with a major impact on the entire family, not only on the alcoholic) where each member of the family plays a significant role in the disease onset and evolution.
A person in need and an enabler find each other because they fulfill each other's needs. The enabler needs to protect and care for those in need, while the sick person needs to be protected and cared for.
The family members of an alcoholic are called codependents. However, this term also includes all the people around an alcoholic (not only the family members) such as the alcoholic's friends, co-workers, and neighbors. A codependent or enabler is any person around the alcoholic that becomes their ally and a double participant to the disease.
Codependency was used for the first time in alcohol addiction treatment journals at the beginning of the 70's. Initially, the term referred to the wives of the alcoholics, and only recently was used to define a dysfunctional style to relate with others.
Initially, codependency symptoms were considered a reaction to a stressful life next to an alcoholic, and the excessive fear, shame, and pain experienced by the family were considered a response to the alcoholic's behaviour.
However, researchers have noticed that the codependent behavior continued to be present among family members even when the alcoholic becomes sober.
Alcohol addiction specialists have realised that the codependent behavior is a distinctive disease that affects the family, and the hidden causes of this dysfunctional behavior aggravates the drinking habit of the alcoholic.
Today, alcohol addiction counselor use the codependency term to help family members understand the reactions and the behaviors they develop living with an alcoholic.
An enabler can be described as a special, polite, and altruist person, concerned with others' well being, and willing to help and care for others. Their desire and efforts to care for those in need are triggered by good intentions, but usually become compulsive and harmful to themselves and others. The enabler can be trapped into an vicious circle of insatisfactions. In most cases, the enablers take the role of a martyr and tries to rescue those in need.
Due to the repeated attempts of an enabler to save those in need, those that receive the care develop a destructive behavior (they become dependent on their enabler rescue actions). An enabler grows to enjoy their rescuer role, and the more they help the more they feel satisfied.
The codependent behavior is caused by the enabler's attempts to control the feelings, thoughts and actions of other people.
An enabler often feels that they are the center of their family universe and they feel responsible for others' happiness or unhappiness. An enabler organizes their life trying to receive validation from those around them. Often, enablers cannot break away from a dysfunctional relationship.
Examples of co-dependent behavior:
» They takes over the alcoholic's responsibilities.
» They justify the alcoholic's behavior to their family, relatives, friends, co-workers, or superiors.
» They take over difficult activities that should be done by the alcoholic.
» They take control over the alcoholic's life by stopping them from participating to different social events (where the alcoholic can drink), by tracing chores that mean to keep the alcoholic away from the alcohol source, by digging after hidden bottles of alcohol and throwing them away, and by demonstrating with serious arguments the alcoholic's lies.
» They are not sincere with the alcoholic, other persons, or themselves about the reality they live in and the feelings they have.
» They try to be perfect in everything they do, think, and believe, because they need to feel appreciated and admired.
The codependent behaviour has its own progressive evolution influenced by the addiction's evolution.
The first phase of the codependent behavior is a protective attitude triggered by the occasionally drinking of their alcoholic partner. The codependent tries to excuse their partner's behavior using a vast amount of plausible reasons.
When the partner's drinking become abusive, the codependent needs to find a responsible person for this situations. Unfortunately, in this situation the enabler becomes the target of all the reproaches, accusations, and blame which make them feel responsible for their partner's drinking problem. The codependent starts to doubt their quality as a human being, spouse, or parent. When the situation puts to much strain on their self-esteem, they will struggle to prove to others and themselves that are perfect by trying to make everybody happy, taking over lot of responsibilities, and solving difficult situations. The codependent is motivated by the believe that only being perfect in everything they do, they will determine their partner to stop drinking.
Unfortunately, their efforts are not followed by the desired reaction, and instead, their partner starts drinking even more. This leads to a new type of codependent behaviour: the controller. This is a normal reaction triggered by the need to keep a chaotic situation under control, to reduce the tension, and to restore a secure environment. The codependent controls every aspect of the alcoholic's life and tries to organize their life in order to keep them away from purchasing alcohol.
In time, the codependent's self-esteem decreases and they enter a new phase: the accuser. The codependent perceives their alcoholic partner as the only cause of their problems, and projects towards them deep feelings of anger, rage, and fear.
Progressively, the codependent completely loses their self-esteem and they isolate from society (this is a protection mechanism). They perceive themselves as victims, feel sorry for themselves, and lose the desire to help and care for others. They break away from their families, friends, relatives, and they isolate themselves in a world full of grief.
The progressive evolution of the codependent behaviour ends in the last phase, the enabler. The desperate attempts of the codependent to manipulate and control their partner's life actually reinforce their dysfunctional behaviors and prevent them from facing the consequences of being an alcoholic.
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
The codependent's recovery is possible only when the codependent is facing and accepting the pain caused by the past and present, and by adopting a new, healthier lifestyle. However, the recovery takes times because the codependent behaviour (itself) had developed in time. Sometimes, recovery spans over the entire life. Codependents can receive professional help from specialists with expertise in this type of problems to identify those factors that triggered the codependent behaviour, and to implement effective coping strategies that prevent future relapses in the old habits.
Nowadays, alcohol addiction is considered a family problem (with a major impact on the entire family, not only on the alcoholic) where each member of the family plays a significant role in the disease onset and evolution.
A person in need and an enabler find each other because they fulfill each other's needs. The enabler needs to protect and care for those in need, while the sick person needs to be protected and cared for.
The family members of an alcoholic are called codependents. However, this term also includes all the people around an alcoholic (not only the family members) such as the alcoholic's friends, co-workers, and neighbors. A codependent or enabler is any person around the alcoholic that becomes their ally and a double participant to the disease.
Codependency was used for the first time in alcohol addiction treatment journals at the beginning of the 70's. Initially, the term referred to the wives of the alcoholics, and only recently was used to define a dysfunctional style to relate with others.
Initially, codependency symptoms were considered a reaction to a stressful life next to an alcoholic, and the excessive fear, shame, and pain experienced by the family were considered a response to the alcoholic's behaviour.
However, researchers have noticed that the codependent behavior continued to be present among family members even when the alcoholic becomes sober.
Alcohol addiction specialists have realised that the codependent behavior is a distinctive disease that affects the family, and the hidden causes of this dysfunctional behavior aggravates the drinking habit of the alcoholic.
Today, alcohol addiction counselor use the codependency term to help family members understand the reactions and the behaviors they develop living with an alcoholic.
An enabler can be described as a special, polite, and altruist person, concerned with others' well being, and willing to help and care for others. Their desire and efforts to care for those in need are triggered by good intentions, but usually become compulsive and harmful to themselves and others. The enabler can be trapped into an vicious circle of insatisfactions. In most cases, the enablers take the role of a martyr and tries to rescue those in need.
Due to the repeated attempts of an enabler to save those in need, those that receive the care develop a destructive behavior (they become dependent on their enabler rescue actions). An enabler grows to enjoy their rescuer role, and the more they help the more they feel satisfied.
The codependent behavior is caused by the enabler's attempts to control the feelings, thoughts and actions of other people.
An enabler often feels that they are the center of their family universe and they feel responsible for others' happiness or unhappiness. An enabler organizes their life trying to receive validation from those around them. Often, enablers cannot break away from a dysfunctional relationship.
Examples of co-dependent behavior:
» They takes over the alcoholic's responsibilities.
» They justify the alcoholic's behavior to their family, relatives, friends, co-workers, or superiors.
» They take over difficult activities that should be done by the alcoholic.
» They take control over the alcoholic's life by stopping them from participating to different social events (where the alcoholic can drink), by tracing chores that mean to keep the alcoholic away from the alcohol source, by digging after hidden bottles of alcohol and throwing them away, and by demonstrating with serious arguments the alcoholic's lies.
» They are not sincere with the alcoholic, other persons, or themselves about the reality they live in and the feelings they have.
» They try to be perfect in everything they do, think, and believe, because they need to feel appreciated and admired.
The codependent behaviour has its own progressive evolution influenced by the addiction's evolution.
The first phase of the codependent behavior is a protective attitude triggered by the occasionally drinking of their alcoholic partner. The codependent tries to excuse their partner's behavior using a vast amount of plausible reasons.
When the partner's drinking become abusive, the codependent needs to find a responsible person for this situations. Unfortunately, in this situation the enabler becomes the target of all the reproaches, accusations, and blame which make them feel responsible for their partner's drinking problem. The codependent starts to doubt their quality as a human being, spouse, or parent. When the situation puts to much strain on their self-esteem, they will struggle to prove to others and themselves that are perfect by trying to make everybody happy, taking over lot of responsibilities, and solving difficult situations. The codependent is motivated by the believe that only being perfect in everything they do, they will determine their partner to stop drinking.
Unfortunately, their efforts are not followed by the desired reaction, and instead, their partner starts drinking even more. This leads to a new type of codependent behaviour: the controller. This is a normal reaction triggered by the need to keep a chaotic situation under control, to reduce the tension, and to restore a secure environment. The codependent controls every aspect of the alcoholic's life and tries to organize their life in order to keep them away from purchasing alcohol.
In time, the codependent's self-esteem decreases and they enter a new phase: the accuser. The codependent perceives their alcoholic partner as the only cause of their problems, and projects towards them deep feelings of anger, rage, and fear.
Progressively, the codependent completely loses their self-esteem and they isolate from society (this is a protection mechanism). They perceive themselves as victims, feel sorry for themselves, and lose the desire to help and care for others. They break away from their families, friends, relatives, and they isolate themselves in a world full of grief.
The progressive evolution of the codependent behaviour ends in the last phase, the enabler. The desperate attempts of the codependent to manipulate and control their partner's life actually reinforce their dysfunctional behaviors and prevent them from facing the consequences of being an alcoholic.
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
The codependent's recovery is possible only when the codependent is facing and accepting the pain caused by the past and present, and by adopting a new, healthier lifestyle. However, the recovery takes times because the codependent behaviour (itself) had developed in time. Sometimes, recovery spans over the entire life. Codependents can receive professional help from specialists with expertise in this type of problems to identify those factors that triggered the codependent behaviour, and to implement effective coping strategies that prevent future relapses in the old habits.
I recognize both myself in this and some "exes"
Eventually I got to a point in my life and sobriety where I got "complacent" and I started repeating my "family of origin" behavior after years of therapy and stepwork, proof to me that "old thinking" will be with me forever if I don't actively stay on top of it.
I never, ever ever want to get as sick as I got with codependency again.
It was not only more painful to live with then active alcoholism, it was harder to get help from, because I wasn't the one with "the problem" (I thought)
Codependency is by far, bar none, the most painful and confusing experience I have ever gone through.
I wish us all well.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Sending you hugs, Ago, and thanks for this. I recognize myself in much of it.
It's a long, stony, dusty, parched, lonely road and I, for one, am glad we all have each other to walk with.
It's a long, stony, dusty, parched, lonely road and I, for one, am glad we all have each other to walk with.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Codependency is by far, bar none, the most painful and confusing experience I have ever gone through.
:ghug :ghug :ghug
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Ago,
I woke up to read SR and just finished your post. Dog gone it! I relate.
Totally agree that getting out of the "taking care of others lives" mentality is hard to break.
I grew up in a house where being good meant putting othrs first (always), volunteering in the community, leading by example and helping those less fortunate. I still have these "altruistic" ideals, but just now am trying to learn how to balance them with taking care of myself first and others later. It does feel a little selfish, but I suppose things don't change overnight.
Thank you for posting this.
Miss
I woke up to read SR and just finished your post. Dog gone it! I relate.
Totally agree that getting out of the "taking care of others lives" mentality is hard to break.
I grew up in a house where being good meant putting othrs first (always), volunteering in the community, leading by example and helping those less fortunate. I still have these "altruistic" ideals, but just now am trying to learn how to balance them with taking care of myself first and others later. It does feel a little selfish, but I suppose things don't change overnight.
Thank you for posting this.
Miss
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Miss fixit, I agree that it's a really hard set of habits to break overnight. The "do whatever others need you to do" mindset was powerful in my family, and taking care of myself was viewed as extremely selfish.
The funny thing is the cycle I went through: from codependent caretaking of others, to a complete pendulum swing to self-focus, and now a swing back to center, where I feel really terrific about the things I do for others, bringing my best energy to it (because it's not out of obligation and compulsion any more!)
Healing is wonderful.
The funny thing is the cycle I went through: from codependent caretaking of others, to a complete pendulum swing to self-focus, and now a swing back to center, where I feel really terrific about the things I do for others, bringing my best energy to it (because it's not out of obligation and compulsion any more!)
Healing is wonderful.
One foot in front of the other
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: York, PA
Posts: 27
I plan/hope to start attending CoDa...there is a weekly meeting about 1/2 an hour from where I live. I am still reading "Codependent No More" and am amazed by how much I keep picking up...how much applies to me. Now that my AH is making a recovery effort, I want to work on myself too. I know this is a "codie" thing to say, but I don't want my codependent behavior to ruin his recovery attempts...Anyway, just hoping we will be able to function as a couple again at some point in time...I know it doesn't always "work", but I'm always trying to stay optimistic. :praying
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
My Father is a strange bird.
He was adopted into an abusive family in his childhood, and that gave him some interesting dynamics that took a great deal of work for me to get past.
He is also a near genius, he is incredibly intelligent, frighteningly so, but he can also be a PITA.
Anyhow, years ago, he "moved into the woods", he moved into an isolated area to "get away from people" then ironically enough became a moderately well known artist, he has been featured in some television shows, and numerous magazine articles, as well as achieved some fame in the Irish Music World with some of his accomplishments. He plays an instrument incredibly well while missing a number of digits on one hand, he has to play it upside down and backwards, and still can't read a note of music, he learned it by ear.
Anyway, some years ago he became convinced he was a taoist, and tried to "get away from it all"
Some ten years later, he did the unthinkable, he called me and said "Son, what I am doing isn't working, you may have to find a different answer." This was unprecedented both before and since. My Father knows everything about everything, knows all the answers to my life, and isn't bashful about sharing his vast wisdom with me. (this is when I now hang up the phone)
Anyhow, this is the part I am dealing with today. After I got sober, I "went into the woods" while living in Society. I shrunk my world until there were only maybe a dozen people in it. I ran my own company, so I picked and choosed not only my employees, but my customers. I only allowed people in my life with long term sobriety.
After many years I "returned to the world" and put myself in a situation where I had to deal with not only the general public, and normal "businessmen" but with my extremely Ill family.
I went to "save" them, but the truth was, they didn't want to be "saved" they only wanted to be enabled. I actually ended up enabling the enabler.
I was woefully unequipped to deal with all of this, and for the last few months, I have been doing "stepwork" to figure out where I went wrong, what were the motivating factors that put me in that position, and what was "my part"
I have the "nuts and bolts" stuff down now, I was "The Rescuer" that became "The Accuser", now I am beginning to look at the events in my life that occurred in the years leading up to that placed me in that position.
In short, what was the decision based on self that placed me in a position to be hurt.
It's beginning to come clear, looking at my family history, and the fact that I had become my families "Knight in Shining Armor" it was only a matter of time before what took place, took place. It had been coming for years, each few years involving the situation escalating, with each time I "came to the rescue" costing me a bit more. I absolutely "volunteered", I enjoyed being the Knight in Shining Armor, I enjoyed rescuing my family, I enjoyed the feelings of power and superiority that my "help" instilled in me.
I have now learned some powerful and painful lessons.
One is, I can't "pull" anyone "up" to my level, but they can sure pull me down to theirs.
Another is, my father was right all of those years ago, Isolating from sick people isn't the answer because no matter where I go, there I am, and quite frankly, there they are. If I am "geared" to "save" them in order to secretly feel superior there is nowhere on this world I can hide from that.
I need to learn how to be in this world and interact with everyone in it. I need to learn how not to "catch the ball" when sick people throw it to me, and especially learn to not throw it back.
I instinctively "catch the ball" when it's "thrown to me" so I also need to learn how to set it down and walk away if I catch it.
For me, this is an "inside job" after nearly two decades of trying to manage "my outsides" I am forced to admit my father was right about one thing.
That his answer doesn't work for me, and I need to find a different answer for myself.
P.S. I plan on being more famous then he is one day in our field, just the fact that I have more fingers then he does should instantly make me better......right.......right????? Truthfully, after many years, I finally live in a situation with a shop so I can begin sculpting again. I hope to be up and running by next summer or so.
He was adopted into an abusive family in his childhood, and that gave him some interesting dynamics that took a great deal of work for me to get past.
He is also a near genius, he is incredibly intelligent, frighteningly so, but he can also be a PITA.
Anyhow, years ago, he "moved into the woods", he moved into an isolated area to "get away from people" then ironically enough became a moderately well known artist, he has been featured in some television shows, and numerous magazine articles, as well as achieved some fame in the Irish Music World with some of his accomplishments. He plays an instrument incredibly well while missing a number of digits on one hand, he has to play it upside down and backwards, and still can't read a note of music, he learned it by ear.
Anyway, some years ago he became convinced he was a taoist, and tried to "get away from it all"
Some ten years later, he did the unthinkable, he called me and said "Son, what I am doing isn't working, you may have to find a different answer." This was unprecedented both before and since. My Father knows everything about everything, knows all the answers to my life, and isn't bashful about sharing his vast wisdom with me. (this is when I now hang up the phone)
Anyhow, this is the part I am dealing with today. After I got sober, I "went into the woods" while living in Society. I shrunk my world until there were only maybe a dozen people in it. I ran my own company, so I picked and choosed not only my employees, but my customers. I only allowed people in my life with long term sobriety.
After many years I "returned to the world" and put myself in a situation where I had to deal with not only the general public, and normal "businessmen" but with my extremely Ill family.
I went to "save" them, but the truth was, they didn't want to be "saved" they only wanted to be enabled. I actually ended up enabling the enabler.
I was woefully unequipped to deal with all of this, and for the last few months, I have been doing "stepwork" to figure out where I went wrong, what were the motivating factors that put me in that position, and what was "my part"
I have the "nuts and bolts" stuff down now, I was "The Rescuer" that became "The Accuser", now I am beginning to look at the events in my life that occurred in the years leading up to that placed me in that position.
In short, what was the decision based on self that placed me in a position to be hurt.
It's beginning to come clear, looking at my family history, and the fact that I had become my families "Knight in Shining Armor" it was only a matter of time before what took place, took place. It had been coming for years, each few years involving the situation escalating, with each time I "came to the rescue" costing me a bit more. I absolutely "volunteered", I enjoyed being the Knight in Shining Armor, I enjoyed rescuing my family, I enjoyed the feelings of power and superiority that my "help" instilled in me.
I have now learned some powerful and painful lessons.
One is, I can't "pull" anyone "up" to my level, but they can sure pull me down to theirs.
Another is, my father was right all of those years ago, Isolating from sick people isn't the answer because no matter where I go, there I am, and quite frankly, there they are. If I am "geared" to "save" them in order to secretly feel superior there is nowhere on this world I can hide from that.
I need to learn how to be in this world and interact with everyone in it. I need to learn how not to "catch the ball" when sick people throw it to me, and especially learn to not throw it back.
I instinctively "catch the ball" when it's "thrown to me" so I also need to learn how to set it down and walk away if I catch it.
For me, this is an "inside job" after nearly two decades of trying to manage "my outsides" I am forced to admit my father was right about one thing.
That his answer doesn't work for me, and I need to find a different answer for myself.
P.S. I plan on being more famous then he is one day in our field, just the fact that I have more fingers then he does should instantly make me better......right.......right????? Truthfully, after many years, I finally live in a situation with a shop so I can begin sculpting again. I hope to be up and running by next summer or so.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by Ago 
He was adopted into an abusive family in his childhood, and that gave him some interesting dynamics that took a great deal of work for me to get past.
I went to "save" them, but the truth was, they didn't want to be "saved" they only wanted to be enabled. I actually ended up enabling the enabler.
I went to "save" them, but the truth was, they didn't want to be "saved" they only wanted to be enabled. I actually ended up enabling the enabler.
Maybe we are some how related through our adopted fathers?
I've always had a suspicion that my father's birth father was Irish.
The enabling the enabler dynamic is all too familiar and such a weird place to be. I feel like I can't even be "normal" in my enabling role. It isn't enough to enable the run of the mill addict, (my boundaries are surprising decent there) no I have enable other enablers/codependents.
What a mess. At least it isn't just me and yes I too am spending a lot of time working on how I "got here", how to get "un-here" and how not to "go here" in the future
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
I have a question about this. When a codependent (me) gets to the place where they are 100% done (I am), does that mean they are running from recovery? Is it ever REALLY possible to re-establish normal? Was there ever a healthy "normal" to go back to? When is it okay to say "I am done with this and any other alcoholic and I never, ever want to go there again"?
I am not having any doubt about my decision....because as you probably know from what I have shared over the past months my STBXAH likely has many character issues that alcohol should not be given credit for. But, I am wondering if, for me, now is when the real work starts. I would guess that it's at this point (moving on from the A in their lives) that many people could falsely assume that all of their problems are solved.
I have a question about this. When a codependent (me) gets to the place where they are 100% done (I am), does that mean they are running from recovery? Is it ever REALLY possible to re-establish normal? Was there ever a healthy "normal" to go back to? When is it okay to say "I am done with this and any other alcoholic and I never, ever want to go there again"?
I am not having any doubt about my decision....because as you probably know from what I have shared over the past months my STBXAH likely has many character issues that alcohol should not be given credit for. But, I am wondering if, for me, now is when the real work starts. I would guess that it's at this point (moving on from the A in their lives) that many people could falsely assume that all of their problems are solved.
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
Posts: 2,870
But, I am wondering if, for me, now is when the real work starts. I would guess that it's at this point (moving on from the A in their lives) that many people could falsely assume that all of their problems are solved.
BOY was I frustrated when I woke up and took a good look at my life, saying HOW did I get here again??? Going thru my 2nd divorce was when the real work began for me. I went back to Al Anon and I followed their suggestions:
get a program
get a sponsor
work the steps
get a life and
get out of the way.
I tried to keep the focus on myself. I worked at becoming happy, healthy and whole ... the only way I knew I could be a good partner to someone else was to make sure I was healthy myself. It was a lot of work, and I learned a lot about myself in the process. I will admit that I didn't do it perfectly, and I had a few more painful relationships along the way. The good news is that I was able to see my part and learned some powerful life lessons.
Co dependency is a powerful thing. Some of us are hardwired for it, and it takes a LOT of work to learn about healthy boundaries, and what behaviors and choices are really best for us.
Thanks for posting this, Ago... it's some good stuff.
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Originally Posted by blessed4x
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
I have a question about this. When a codependent (me) gets to the place where they are 100% done (I am), does that mean they are running from recovery? Is it ever REALLY possible to re-establish normal? Was there ever a healthy "normal" to go back to? When is it okay to say "I am done with this and any other alcoholic and I never, ever want to go there again"?
I am not having any doubt about my decision....because as you probably know from what I have shared over the past months my STBXAH likely has many character issues that alcohol should not be given credit for. But, I am wondering if, for me, now is when the real work starts. I would guess that it's at this point (moving on from the A in their lives) that many people could falsely assume that all of their problems are solved.
I have a question about this. When a codependent (me) gets to the place where they are 100% done (I am), does that mean they are running from recovery? Is it ever REALLY possible to re-establish normal? Was there ever a healthy "normal" to go back to? When is it okay to say "I am done with this and any other alcoholic and I never, ever want to go there again"?
I am not having any doubt about my decision....because as you probably know from what I have shared over the past months my STBXAH likely has many character issues that alcohol should not be given credit for. But, I am wondering if, for me, now is when the real work starts. I would guess that it's at this point (moving on from the A in their lives) that many people could falsely assume that all of their problems are solved.
Wherever I go, there I am.
I am of the school that no one has a "broken picker"
They pick exactly who they are supposed to.
They pick exactly "where they are", and who they are.
The seeds and behaviors of alcoholism and codependency are in place years before it becomes evident there is a problem.
We pick people to teach us lessons we didn't learn in childhood.
That's why we become and date our parents.
I have never seen a relationship that didn't have some grounding in "Family of Origin" issues
I "dated" my Grandmother actually, The Wicked Witch of The West
That was an appalling realization
I have watched people in recovery spend twenty years trying to "fix their picker", the saying is: "I can walk into a room with 99 healthy potential mates, and one ill one, and I always pick the ill one".
To me that has always indicated their picker was fine. It's them that need work.
After a few times it becomes a pattern, you know? There are no "accidents" in relationships. If I pick "sick people" it's because I have some work I need to do on myself.
There are no exceptions I have ever seen.
Ever.
When I got sober, we were both very sick. As time passed, each partner I picked was a little healthier until I finally had a pretty normal, healthy relationship. When I got "sick" around my codependency issues with my family I picked the sickest person I have ever met, much less dated. It was a pretty good indication of where my head was at that time.
For me when my codependency says, "They are the sick one, not me, (s)he's the problem" it's absolutely NO different from an alcoholic saying to themself, "It will different this time and here's how. I am different from all those people, I am unique"
two sides of the same coin
The good news is if I address it, it gets better, the bad news is if my denial is telling me "they" are "the problem" I have tough years ahead of me. The other good news is, when I picked a partner willing to "go the distance" with me, we healed, we both healed tons. We walked through issues I didn't know existed.
I still don't know all of the answers, but I am getting a better awareness of the problem. I am learning some skills. I am learning detachment. I have learned that hiding my head in the sand only surrounding myself with healthy people is like an alcoholic moving to a country where they don't serve alcohol. Eventually I have to come face to face with whatever it is that was holding me back, then it's sink or swim time.
Last time I sank.
I'm learning to swim now.
If I have a problem, it's my problem, therefore, it has to be my solution, that's the spiritual axiom.
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Posts: 111
Originally Posted by blessed4x
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
I have a question about this. When a codependent (me) gets to the place where they are 100% done (I am), does that mean they are running from recovery? Is it ever REALLY possible to re-establish normal? Was there ever a healthy "normal" to go back to? When is it okay to say "I am done with this and any other alcoholic and I never, ever want to go there again"?
I have a question about this. When a codependent (me) gets to the place where they are 100% done (I am), does that mean they are running from recovery? Is it ever REALLY possible to re-establish normal? Was there ever a healthy "normal" to go back to? When is it okay to say "I am done with this and any other alcoholic and I never, ever want to go there again"?
I think we all have the capability to go forward to new, healthier relationships. Again, for me, the emotional space I gained after I split from my AXGF has been invaluable to me. It's given me the room to concentrate on myself and my children. I'm not sure where my personal path of recovery ends and a path of just general, ever-increasing self-awareness begins; I see it all as sort-of the same thing to be honest.
What I mean is, I don't think I'll ever wake up one morning and think "Hey, today's the day I'm recovered!" as I don't see myself in that way. I'm a work-in-progress, I always will be, and I'm ok with that. Thinking about me as a person, making myself consciously aware of my feelings and gut instincts, communicating more and trusting myself have become ingrained in my life. I used to spend all that emotional energy in thinking about my AXGF and her drinking and abuse, trying to work out her feelings and motives, trying to predict what she was going to do next, and trying to come up with ways to stop her flipping out when she was drunk. I find I get a lot better return on investment when I expend that energy on me than her.
Mr B.
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