Testing
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Testing
I'll start off by saying, I love my friends for their support and I am grateful for this too.. but..
They do not like me attending Al-Anon. To the point that I am getting to justifying why I go. They don't think it is 'good' for me. They think that as I am no longer in the world of the A, I don't need to go. I found out why. The reasons are twofold: they think that by attending Al-Anon I may go back to him and they don't want that, and; that by attending Al-Anon I am in some perpetual 'victimhood'.
I've tried to explain what the group is all about, what I get out of it at this time, why it is important for me to attend as a part of understanding and even healing. They don't get it.. how could they.. they have no experience of my situation or Al-Anon.
It is testing my boundaries. I listen to their opinion, tell them what I feel.. and go anyway.. I'm an adult right? I know what I need and what I want to do and what is right for me better than anyone right? So I said what I feel, what I want for me and I am done now. It has gone beyond explaining what it brings to my life and the benefits into the realms of concerned parents and child asserting its independence... to the point of having to justify my choice. If the subject comes up again, does anyone have any ESH to deal with this without it becoming a big deal?
They do not like me attending Al-Anon. To the point that I am getting to justifying why I go. They don't think it is 'good' for me. They think that as I am no longer in the world of the A, I don't need to go. I found out why. The reasons are twofold: they think that by attending Al-Anon I may go back to him and they don't want that, and; that by attending Al-Anon I am in some perpetual 'victimhood'.
I've tried to explain what the group is all about, what I get out of it at this time, why it is important for me to attend as a part of understanding and even healing. They don't get it.. how could they.. they have no experience of my situation or Al-Anon.
It is testing my boundaries. I listen to their opinion, tell them what I feel.. and go anyway.. I'm an adult right? I know what I need and what I want to do and what is right for me better than anyone right? So I said what I feel, what I want for me and I am done now. It has gone beyond explaining what it brings to my life and the benefits into the realms of concerned parents and child asserting its independence... to the point of having to justify my choice. If the subject comes up again, does anyone have any ESH to deal with this without it becoming a big deal?
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Do they think it crazy that you go to your follow-up medical appointments for your hand? You need ongoing assistance until your hand is healed, from the damage that was done to you. You do not plan to be a cripple, just want to make sure you do the best aftercare in healing.
Likewise, Alanon is a group of experts in the fallout of having shared a life with an alcoholic and the damage that ensues. Being involved in Alanon is basically aftercare to help you heal from THAT damage. It doesn't mean you are playing the victim or plan to be or stay a victim. You just want to make sure you do the best aftercare, with the experts in this area, to get healed from a specific type of damage.
If they are having trouble assimilating this, perhaps they would be willing to attend a meeting and bring up their concerns in the group frankly and openly. They will likely learn that attendence in Alanon has just the opposite effect than what they currently believe. But they can hear this from others, not just you.
For people who have no experience in this world of addicts/manipulators, it is very difficult to understand how things "work." Just like a pregnancy takes nine months to get you to the baby, it takes another long period after delivery to recover from being pregnant. You don't just stop something that took months or years to build, such as the damage an addict can inflict upon a person both physically and mentally/spiritually/emotionally. You need people with experience in this particular journey to help you progress past the damage and back to a healthy state.
Perhaps some of these thoughts would be useful.
CLMI
Likewise, Alanon is a group of experts in the fallout of having shared a life with an alcoholic and the damage that ensues. Being involved in Alanon is basically aftercare to help you heal from THAT damage. It doesn't mean you are playing the victim or plan to be or stay a victim. You just want to make sure you do the best aftercare, with the experts in this area, to get healed from a specific type of damage.
If they are having trouble assimilating this, perhaps they would be willing to attend a meeting and bring up their concerns in the group frankly and openly. They will likely learn that attendence in Alanon has just the opposite effect than what they currently believe. But they can hear this from others, not just you.
For people who have no experience in this world of addicts/manipulators, it is very difficult to understand how things "work." Just like a pregnancy takes nine months to get you to the baby, it takes another long period after delivery to recover from being pregnant. You don't just stop something that took months or years to build, such as the damage an addict can inflict upon a person both physically and mentally/spiritually/emotionally. You need people with experience in this particular journey to help you progress past the damage and back to a healthy state.
Perhaps some of these thoughts would be useful.
CLMI
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Thanks CLMI. That's helpful. Although I've said much the same thing. I've said it is just one component in a wider process that involves more than just Al-Anon.
They don't understand.. so I ain't mad at 'em. It came on the back of a conversation as I was about to go to a meeting (not the first time this has happpened) and started off with the theory that I 'got off lightly'.. and that I am out now so I should probably be in a place where I don't need this stuff. And if I do need stuff to process what happened it isn't Al-Anon because I am not with an A anymore.
I suppose I keep on trucking, doing what's best for me and just don't enter into discussions about it. Moving on is a personal thing.. it is what it is, it takes what it takes and it needs what it needs.
They don't understand.. so I ain't mad at 'em. It came on the back of a conversation as I was about to go to a meeting (not the first time this has happpened) and started off with the theory that I 'got off lightly'.. and that I am out now so I should probably be in a place where I don't need this stuff. And if I do need stuff to process what happened it isn't Al-Anon because I am not with an A anymore.
I suppose I keep on trucking, doing what's best for me and just don't enter into discussions about it. Moving on is a personal thing.. it is what it is, it takes what it takes and it needs what it needs.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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I agree w all above...
Either don't talk to them about it or say "You actually have no idea what you are talking about - why don't you join me at a meeting and check it out."
If it's helping you and not hurting anyone else then why on earth do they care??!!!
Live and Let Live!
peace,
b
Either don't talk to them about it or say "You actually have no idea what you are talking about - why don't you join me at a meeting and check it out."
If it's helping you and not hurting anyone else then why on earth do they care??!!!
Live and Let Live!
peace,
b
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 273
I think "outsiders" feel jealous or don't understand the importance of a program like Al-anon or AA.
It is a little bit like a secret society and when you are standing on the outside looking in I don't know that it is easy to understand the role that it plays.
Only after attending Al-anon for a while did I get a clearer understanding of the importance of the AA meetings for the ex-A in my life. He was very open about AA and its role for him and he always had my full support, but I didn't "get it"until Al-anon came into my life.
I also agree that inviting them to an open meeting might help. It might not be enough as for many of us it takes a while before the connection becomes meaningful.
It is a little bit like a secret society and when you are standing on the outside looking in I don't know that it is easy to understand the role that it plays.
Only after attending Al-anon for a while did I get a clearer understanding of the importance of the AA meetings for the ex-A in my life. He was very open about AA and its role for him and he always had my full support, but I didn't "get it"until Al-anon came into my life.
I also agree that inviting them to an open meeting might help. It might not be enough as for many of us it takes a while before the connection becomes meaningful.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
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I think it's easy for some people to be suspicious of things they don't understand.
If their concern is for YOU, that you may end up going back to him, it may be sufficient to say that Al-Anon is helping to make rock-solid sure that won't happen.
I'm interested in why they think Al-Anon is bad for you. Is there anything about your behavior that would trigger those kinds of feelings? I find it always helps in any conflict to look for the kernel of truth in the situation -- maybe there's something about my behavior that's being misinterpreted, and I can just shine a big bright light on it and voila! the conflict is gone.
I didn't attend Al-Anon meetings forever - just until the behaviors they helped me developed became natural and automatic responses. So in terms of "getting past needing them," well, that's a bit misguided on their part but I think that might be what they're talking about. They seem to be rushing things a bit.
Anyway......hoping you find a way to deal with this with love.
If their concern is for YOU, that you may end up going back to him, it may be sufficient to say that Al-Anon is helping to make rock-solid sure that won't happen.
I'm interested in why they think Al-Anon is bad for you. Is there anything about your behavior that would trigger those kinds of feelings? I find it always helps in any conflict to look for the kernel of truth in the situation -- maybe there's something about my behavior that's being misinterpreted, and I can just shine a big bright light on it and voila! the conflict is gone.
I didn't attend Al-Anon meetings forever - just until the behaviors they helped me developed became natural and automatic responses. So in terms of "getting past needing them," well, that's a bit misguided on their part but I think that might be what they're talking about. They seem to be rushing things a bit.
Anyway......hoping you find a way to deal with this with love.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
Thanks for your responses guys. :ghug
The reasons why they think it is a bad idea are the two I gave. They think also that if I cry, or I take time for myself away from others, or if I go somewhere to talk about it, or if I process the feelings, that somehow it is a step backwards. Like maybe I am wallowing in pity or victim status? I don't know. Maybe they have a timetable for 'recovery'.. physically, emotionally, mentally that I am not adhering to. An idea based on how they think they would be in the same situation. But I'm me. Sometimes I just want a little space, sometimes I want to be social... sometimes I want to talk about it, sometimes I want to get on and do practical things towards rebuilding.
It has only been a few short weeks and I think I'm doing pretty well considering. I actually don't want to talk about recovery and the issues with them. Not that I want to exclude them but that stuff is better worked through with people who have lived it, gone through it and have come out the other side. And they don't want to know the whole details of the sorry story... they've said as much. They are also not interested in attending a meeting to assuage their fears. But they would like me to attend things they think will help that they are into.
I'm going to have to go at my own pace and do things that I feel benefit me. I can't be in 'negotiation of what is best for T' mode again. I can't do things someone wants just to make them feel better or it's what they want for me or it will get them off my back and give me their approval.
That 'codie' coat is NOT going back on here.
The reasons why they think it is a bad idea are the two I gave. They think also that if I cry, or I take time for myself away from others, or if I go somewhere to talk about it, or if I process the feelings, that somehow it is a step backwards. Like maybe I am wallowing in pity or victim status? I don't know. Maybe they have a timetable for 'recovery'.. physically, emotionally, mentally that I am not adhering to. An idea based on how they think they would be in the same situation. But I'm me. Sometimes I just want a little space, sometimes I want to be social... sometimes I want to talk about it, sometimes I want to get on and do practical things towards rebuilding.
It has only been a few short weeks and I think I'm doing pretty well considering. I actually don't want to talk about recovery and the issues with them. Not that I want to exclude them but that stuff is better worked through with people who have lived it, gone through it and have come out the other side. And they don't want to know the whole details of the sorry story... they've said as much. They are also not interested in attending a meeting to assuage their fears. But they would like me to attend things they think will help that they are into.
I'm going to have to go at my own pace and do things that I feel benefit me. I can't be in 'negotiation of what is best for T' mode again. I can't do things someone wants just to make them feel better or it's what they want for me or it will get them off my back and give me their approval.
That 'codie' coat is NOT going back on here.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
tallulah, good for you for commiting to your own recovery. you are so very strong!! keep it up!!
it all comes down to expectations. it hurts a lot realizing others that you consider close friends, do not understand. however i have realized those people have never had alcoholism affecting their lives. i cannot expect them to understand what they have not lived. i talked to a friend whose dad was an alcoholic. she NEVER asked me why i hadn't "got over it already". its almost offensive!! or they think you are still sad because you want him back... ughhhhhh
after i ignored the good willing comments, advice, etc that many times hurt more than helped, and just kept on doing my thing, i started feeling more satisfied
i expect company from friends
i expect understanding from AA/alanon/SR/therapist
i expect coworkers to provide me the info. i need
i expect myself never to believe others know what i need to feel good
A huge lesson... as soon as i stopped expecting coworkers to act as friends, and expecting the support i need from people that are unable to give it, everything got better....
Remember many people have buried their own feelings for so much time that seeing sadness, anger, resonates something in them they do not want to see. Most of the people distract themselves and do whatever they can to avoid facing their mistakes, to learn, to grow. Our world would be different if everybody took two steps back and really learned everything there is to learn after an important life event, death, breakup...
Any emotionally healthy person would know its a PROCESS... and anyone remotely familiar to alcoholism would know that no, having another man WON'T solve everything instantly, and NO, sometimes you prefer to stay at home crying and you are NOT a loser or a victim.... quite the contrary...victim would be to ignore your needs and keep on looking for outside stuff! but please... explain that to them LOL
Joy will find its way to you, but first you have to go through the thick of the forest...
You are doing very well (((tallulah)))
it all comes down to expectations. it hurts a lot realizing others that you consider close friends, do not understand. however i have realized those people have never had alcoholism affecting their lives. i cannot expect them to understand what they have not lived. i talked to a friend whose dad was an alcoholic. she NEVER asked me why i hadn't "got over it already". its almost offensive!! or they think you are still sad because you want him back... ughhhhhh
after i ignored the good willing comments, advice, etc that many times hurt more than helped, and just kept on doing my thing, i started feeling more satisfied
i expect company from friends
i expect understanding from AA/alanon/SR/therapist
i expect coworkers to provide me the info. i need
i expect myself never to believe others know what i need to feel good
A huge lesson... as soon as i stopped expecting coworkers to act as friends, and expecting the support i need from people that are unable to give it, everything got better....
Remember many people have buried their own feelings for so much time that seeing sadness, anger, resonates something in them they do not want to see. Most of the people distract themselves and do whatever they can to avoid facing their mistakes, to learn, to grow. Our world would be different if everybody took two steps back and really learned everything there is to learn after an important life event, death, breakup...
Any emotionally healthy person would know its a PROCESS... and anyone remotely familiar to alcoholism would know that no, having another man WON'T solve everything instantly, and NO, sometimes you prefer to stay at home crying and you are NOT a loser or a victim.... quite the contrary...victim would be to ignore your needs and keep on looking for outside stuff! but please... explain that to them LOL
Joy will find its way to you, but first you have to go through the thick of the forest...
You are doing very well (((tallulah)))
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thank you dreamer 
I'm of the same opinion. Different things and different people bring different qualities to your life. It's like not going to the hardware store to buy a loaf of bread.
I could very easily stuff my feelings and get on with it. I've had alot of doing that in the situation that got me to this place. I'm pretty damned good at it. Pretend like it didn't happen, put on the strong capable mask and carry on like business as usual. Ah but that's only going to get me in trouble: it'll hit me at some stage as these things always have a habit of coming back to haunt ya or (worse still) the whole situation gets repeated again because you didn't learn the lessons. That is my greatest fear and what keeps me facing it all.
What doesn't kill me makes me stronger.. it's hard, it hurts, I don't like the feelings.. but they are not killing me and once I'm through it I'm going to be a wiser more robust person.
My going to where I feel comfortable to talk and get support is not negotiable. How's that for a boundary? lol..
I'm of the same opinion. Different things and different people bring different qualities to your life. It's like not going to the hardware store to buy a loaf of bread.
I could very easily stuff my feelings and get on with it. I've had alot of doing that in the situation that got me to this place. I'm pretty damned good at it. Pretend like it didn't happen, put on the strong capable mask and carry on like business as usual. Ah but that's only going to get me in trouble: it'll hit me at some stage as these things always have a habit of coming back to haunt ya or (worse still) the whole situation gets repeated again because you didn't learn the lessons. That is my greatest fear and what keeps me facing it all.
What doesn't kill me makes me stronger.. it's hard, it hurts, I don't like the feelings.. but they are not killing me and once I'm through it I'm going to be a wiser more robust person.
My going to where I feel comfortable to talk and get support is not negotiable. How's that for a boundary? lol..
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Hey tallulah ---
One thing you might remind your friends.....what Socrates said....: "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Alanon/Naranon are good for folks who have been in relationships with A's, especially if they're not in a relationship at the moment.....this is a perfect time to examine oneself to see if one can determine just 'why' one got into the 'A' relationship in the first place. This can be very good so that the person, hopefully, can avoid getting into another relationship with another A down the line. (o:
NoelleR
One thing you might remind your friends.....what Socrates said....: "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Alanon/Naranon are good for folks who have been in relationships with A's, especially if they're not in a relationship at the moment.....this is a perfect time to examine oneself to see if one can determine just 'why' one got into the 'A' relationship in the first place. This can be very good so that the person, hopefully, can avoid getting into another relationship with another A down the line. (o:
NoelleR
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Tallulah:
It's possible that they are threatened by you getting healthy. I know this sounds odd, but My therapist explained this to me before. When you get better, you become a different person than they are used to do dealing with and ultimately, they don't want you to change. It's not mean or malicious, it's just because a healthier you means that they have to change the way they treat you. You will set boundaries with them, which you may not have done before, and that may not sit well with them. My therapist told me getting healthier is the best way to find out who your true friends are. I know that's been true for me. Most of them are still around, one has left my life, but it's ok. I no longer need or want toxic people around me.
((((HUGS))))
It's possible that they are threatened by you getting healthy. I know this sounds odd, but My therapist explained this to me before. When you get better, you become a different person than they are used to do dealing with and ultimately, they don't want you to change. It's not mean or malicious, it's just because a healthier you means that they have to change the way they treat you. You will set boundaries with them, which you may not have done before, and that may not sit well with them. My therapist told me getting healthier is the best way to find out who your true friends are. I know that's been true for me. Most of them are still around, one has left my life, but it's ok. I no longer need or want toxic people around me.
((((HUGS))))
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
My counselor told me today that giving unsolicited advice is a huge boundary violation.....equivalent to walking through a door without knocking. Her suggestion for me (because I have all kinds of people wanting to give me advice on MY divorce) is to practice a response that fits me.
I liked, "I understand that you have my best interest in mind (if I believe they do). This is a very hard time for me right now and the best way you can support me is to trust that I am making the right decisions for myself."
I think her advice (which WAS solicited at 50 bucks an hour) would apply to you as well. The other suggestion she had for me was a half-agreement kind of statement. When someone says they don't think you should be going to Alanon you could say, "I can see how you might think that. I'll give it some thought." I've used this when I just don't have the energy to engage and it works EVERY time. Really, what more is there for them to say?
Hope that helps!
I liked, "I understand that you have my best interest in mind (if I believe they do). This is a very hard time for me right now and the best way you can support me is to trust that I am making the right decisions for myself."
I think her advice (which WAS solicited at 50 bucks an hour) would apply to you as well. The other suggestion she had for me was a half-agreement kind of statement. When someone says they don't think you should be going to Alanon you could say, "I can see how you might think that. I'll give it some thought." I've used this when I just don't have the energy to engage and it works EVERY time. Really, what more is there for them to say?
Hope that helps!
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