need help seeing things clearly
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 405
I would worry that you are setting yourself up for being more dependent on this man by giving up your job.
Do you really want to lose the ability to support yourself? (not sure if leaving this job means that, but I think there is a lot to be said for being financially independent).
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Do you really want to lose the ability to support yourself? (not sure if leaving this job means that, but I think there is a lot to be said for being financially independent).
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 125
Decisions, decisions
Hi Nowwhat!
I read an article years ago about why it's so hard to make decisions now-a-days. While yours isn't about the 50 different types of Gap jeans we have to choose from, we tend to be afraid of making a mistake. Especially when there were only 2 options - we have a 50/50 chance of picking the right one!
But in life, there might not be a "right decision". I took a course with a gal last year who talked about living in the present moment. One thing, imho, that is applicable to your decision making that I got out of that course is this (refering to a past decision): The decision you made was the only one you could have made at that time.
What does that mean? You will make the decision that makes the most sense to you; it's not a right or wrong one. It's the one you chose, for whatever the reasons, and you chose The Only One. Both choices have pros and cons to them.
Now, how do you decide? I suggest you go the old fashioned route and write out a Pros and Cons list. I usually choose the decision that has the most factors listed.
---
As for the ABF. I never dated an A before. My ABF was my college sweetheart who found his way into my life after 18 years of sporatic contact. I didn't bother learning about A's. He's not like that. After almost 2 years of living with him - his personality is indeed that of an A. He's got the lying, twisting the truth, blame shifting, money hiding, time hiding, perfect job for an A (waiter) thing all down. But he's not like that. He's super smart. He could be a professor. I finally admitted to myself, I may very well be dealing with an alcoholic.
So, I started reading books on A's. I started allowing myself to see the truth. Oh, oh. I lied to myself the whole time. It was hard to admit. I didn't want the labels. I didn't want to admit that my college sweetheart, the love of my life, follows the lifestyle of the textbook definition of an A. But he only takes Nyquil to sleep. There's still alcohol in it. And just because I don't see him drinking, why, he could be drinking at the restaurant without anyone knowing at all! Who am I fooling?
We all are urging you to reconsider your interest in pursuing an A because we've been there or are there right now. A's are really rather hypnotic in their ways. Think of it as brainwashing. We care for them, so they've got our attention and trust. They manipulate us, but we refuse to think that's the case. Step outside of yourself for a moment and see this guy for who he is - and realize that no matter where your heart is, alcoholism is a progressive disease, and A's will hold your hand and coax you down a path of co-dependence, enabling and self-destruction...and they'll blame you every step of the way.
Enough of that - you'll do what you want anyway, and sometimes bitterness is best tasted in our own mouths!
No one could tell me my ABF would be harmful to my health. I had to spend the last 2 years of my life, closing myself off to opportunites to meet a man who could make me feel the way a man should make me feel.
I saw him for who he really is when I was ready to see the truth. That came with reading books on self-esteem. The truth is harder to take because then you have to take responsibility and do something about your unhappiness.
--------
BTW, there's a reason you came to this board. It talks about recovery. We're friends and family of A's.
--------
Be gentle with yourself...
--------
Compartmentalize each issue. Put each problem in its own folder and review each one at a time. If each cross-affect each other, then take that into consideration, but breathe deeply and think of what you think is best.
What you want vs. what's right. That's a hard one. What's going to facilitate your future? I'm pro higher education. At the same time, I'm pro food on the table. You'll get some guidance here, but your answer is inside of you. All of your answers are.
Follow your intuition. On both issues. It whispers but it knows more than you think it does.
Celebrate yourself. You have some interesting options. You wanted to go back to grad school, and you were accepted! :day6 Hey, can you take out a Stafford loan and live off the loan??? I did. I shouldn't have, but it's an option for you. I was working when I took it out, but if you won't be working, you can use that to pay your bills!!!!! Look into it!! Google FAFSA!!
I hope my post helped.
Good luck!!
~Ready
I read an article years ago about why it's so hard to make decisions now-a-days. While yours isn't about the 50 different types of Gap jeans we have to choose from, we tend to be afraid of making a mistake. Especially when there were only 2 options - we have a 50/50 chance of picking the right one!
But in life, there might not be a "right decision". I took a course with a gal last year who talked about living in the present moment. One thing, imho, that is applicable to your decision making that I got out of that course is this (refering to a past decision): The decision you made was the only one you could have made at that time.
What does that mean? You will make the decision that makes the most sense to you; it's not a right or wrong one. It's the one you chose, for whatever the reasons, and you chose The Only One. Both choices have pros and cons to them.
Now, how do you decide? I suggest you go the old fashioned route and write out a Pros and Cons list. I usually choose the decision that has the most factors listed.
---
As for the ABF. I never dated an A before. My ABF was my college sweetheart who found his way into my life after 18 years of sporatic contact. I didn't bother learning about A's. He's not like that. After almost 2 years of living with him - his personality is indeed that of an A. He's got the lying, twisting the truth, blame shifting, money hiding, time hiding, perfect job for an A (waiter) thing all down. But he's not like that. He's super smart. He could be a professor. I finally admitted to myself, I may very well be dealing with an alcoholic.
So, I started reading books on A's. I started allowing myself to see the truth. Oh, oh. I lied to myself the whole time. It was hard to admit. I didn't want the labels. I didn't want to admit that my college sweetheart, the love of my life, follows the lifestyle of the textbook definition of an A. But he only takes Nyquil to sleep. There's still alcohol in it. And just because I don't see him drinking, why, he could be drinking at the restaurant without anyone knowing at all! Who am I fooling?
We all are urging you to reconsider your interest in pursuing an A because we've been there or are there right now. A's are really rather hypnotic in their ways. Think of it as brainwashing. We care for them, so they've got our attention and trust. They manipulate us, but we refuse to think that's the case. Step outside of yourself for a moment and see this guy for who he is - and realize that no matter where your heart is, alcoholism is a progressive disease, and A's will hold your hand and coax you down a path of co-dependence, enabling and self-destruction...and they'll blame you every step of the way.
Enough of that - you'll do what you want anyway, and sometimes bitterness is best tasted in our own mouths!
No one could tell me my ABF would be harmful to my health. I had to spend the last 2 years of my life, closing myself off to opportunites to meet a man who could make me feel the way a man should make me feel.
I saw him for who he really is when I was ready to see the truth. That came with reading books on self-esteem. The truth is harder to take because then you have to take responsibility and do something about your unhappiness. --------
BTW, there's a reason you came to this board. It talks about recovery. We're friends and family of A's.
--------
Be gentle with yourself...
--------
Compartmentalize each issue. Put each problem in its own folder and review each one at a time. If each cross-affect each other, then take that into consideration, but breathe deeply and think of what you think is best.
What you want vs. what's right. That's a hard one. What's going to facilitate your future? I'm pro higher education. At the same time, I'm pro food on the table. You'll get some guidance here, but your answer is inside of you. All of your answers are.
Follow your intuition. On both issues. It whispers but it knows more than you think it does.
Celebrate yourself. You have some interesting options. You wanted to go back to grad school, and you were accepted! :day6 Hey, can you take out a Stafford loan and live off the loan??? I did. I shouldn't have, but it's an option for you. I was working when I took it out, but if you won't be working, you can use that to pay your bills!!!!! Look into it!! Google FAFSA!!
I hope my post helped.
Good luck!!
~Ready
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
Drum roll, please--there's a decision in the house
I'm not going to sign the contract.
I will hand this one to the universe. Either my school needs me part time (best case scenario) or I can substitute teach for the next couple of years, or do temp work.
I will be able to take off from work when my children need me! I will be able to work 3-4 days most weeks and have flexibility!
Money. My XAH pays me a good amount of CS. I recently (finally) received a cash settlement from the divorce, that he has owed for more than a year. I paid off all of the divorce debt, and now have only non-revolving debt expenses.
I have quite a bit of cash left over. Enough to hold me if it takes awhile for the subbing to start picking up at the beginning of the school year.
(I keep getting paid for this year through the end of the summer).
All of my children will be in school next year--no more child care bills.
COBRA coverage for my eldest is available and not too pricey.
If my relationship ends, it will be a much better situation for me NOT to be teaching. Teaching, like single parenting, is a very isolated existence. Heck, even if I continue in my relationship, not being so isolated will be extremely helpful.
I will meet people in grad school. I may apply for an assistantship. I will have time to go to Alanon a couple of days a week while my children are in school.
This is a risk! But I'm willing to take it. My kids need a mother who is not exhausted.
I feel a bit irresponsible not socking away the cash that I currently have, but you know? You only live once. I need to find a way to have a nice life.
You have all been enormously helpful. You really did help me see things clearly. I know I'm not addressing the relationship thing right now, but I am just not "there" yet.
One day at a time, right?
I will hand this one to the universe. Either my school needs me part time (best case scenario) or I can substitute teach for the next couple of years, or do temp work.
I will be able to take off from work when my children need me! I will be able to work 3-4 days most weeks and have flexibility!
Money. My XAH pays me a good amount of CS. I recently (finally) received a cash settlement from the divorce, that he has owed for more than a year. I paid off all of the divorce debt, and now have only non-revolving debt expenses.
I have quite a bit of cash left over. Enough to hold me if it takes awhile for the subbing to start picking up at the beginning of the school year.
(I keep getting paid for this year through the end of the summer).
All of my children will be in school next year--no more child care bills.
COBRA coverage for my eldest is available and not too pricey.
If my relationship ends, it will be a much better situation for me NOT to be teaching. Teaching, like single parenting, is a very isolated existence. Heck, even if I continue in my relationship, not being so isolated will be extremely helpful.
I will meet people in grad school. I may apply for an assistantship. I will have time to go to Alanon a couple of days a week while my children are in school.
This is a risk! But I'm willing to take it. My kids need a mother who is not exhausted.
I feel a bit irresponsible not socking away the cash that I currently have, but you know? You only live once. I need to find a way to have a nice life.
You have all been enormously helpful. You really did help me see things clearly. I know I'm not addressing the relationship thing right now, but I am just not "there" yet.
One day at a time, right?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
nowwhat,
I think that's a great choice, personally.
If it gives you a feeling of relief inside, a clean refreshed "right" feeling, then it's the best one for you.
I didn't want to sway your decision by saying this, but I left my last "real" job during a recession, with all those dire warnings, with very little savings, and just jumped. I read Barbara Winters' book "Making a Living Without a Job" and embraced it fully, and built multiple ways to make a living. Far from creating dependency or worry, it really strengthened and toughened me, and now I know that I can create any sort of life that I want, no matter what the economic conditions.
You have much more than I do -- you will be fine.
Consider too picking up a copy of the new version of the book "Your Money or Your Life" -- fantastic guide to how to recraft your life, even with kids, so you can live on less and enjoy life more.
Congratulations :ghug
I think that's a great choice, personally.
If it gives you a feeling of relief inside, a clean refreshed "right" feeling, then it's the best one for you.
I didn't want to sway your decision by saying this, but I left my last "real" job during a recession, with all those dire warnings, with very little savings, and just jumped. I read Barbara Winters' book "Making a Living Without a Job" and embraced it fully, and built multiple ways to make a living. Far from creating dependency or worry, it really strengthened and toughened me, and now I know that I can create any sort of life that I want, no matter what the economic conditions.
You have much more than I do -- you will be fine.
Consider too picking up a copy of the new version of the book "Your Money or Your Life" -- fantastic guide to how to recraft your life, even with kids, so you can live on less and enjoy life more.
Congratulations :ghug
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by nowwhat 
I agree that this is my issue. I really don't think it's about clinging to money--I've never been into money per se--but I think I am desperate for some kind of safety and security, and that in ABF's case, that seems to be what he has to offer.
First, I'm glad you came to a decision about the job that feels right. It's hard to take a risk, so it's a brave decision. Way to go.
Secondly, I wanted to highlight the above. An alcoholic does NOT offer any kind of safety and security, no matter how much money they have. Look around this board. How many people here feel safe and secure with their A? This lie you are telling yourself has the potential to cause you great harm.
L
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hi nowwhat,
Congrats on your decision! I got a second job a few months ago. I was exhausted.
When they told me my work was good but my timing sucked, and told me I was no longer required, I felt bad. Then I looked at my face - I had not slept for weeks, could not do anything to attend to my emotional wellbeing having just broken up, I was a real mess. Rest, feeling at peace taking care of your children, Al Anon, time for your studies - this sounds like such a great deal for you!
Hope you sort out what to do with your boyfriend. Honestly, my ex also looked nice, and was funny when drinking, a guy just like any other - until the verbal abuse started. Then it was hell. Alcohol uses denial (in the alcoholic and everyone around) and the element of SURPRISE. I hope you can talk to the therapist honestly.
You have a lot of responsibilities on your plate now. You do not need another child. If there will be someone in your life, it will be a partner, who will always be there for you (by always I mean always)and does not represent a source of worry or heartache - someone who represents all what is good in this life, makes you feel peaceful and motivated. An enhancement. Someone who takes you by the hand when you are floundering, and someone you can take by the hand when he is. A daily entry on your Gratitude List. Someone who reminds you of the dream you have about yourself, and helps you get closer to it.
After a psychologist gave me the definition of how a partner looks like on the Planet of Healthy People, I was able to see my reality more clearly.
Hugs!!
Congrats on your decision! I got a second job a few months ago. I was exhausted.
When they told me my work was good but my timing sucked, and told me I was no longer required, I felt bad. Then I looked at my face - I had not slept for weeks, could not do anything to attend to my emotional wellbeing having just broken up, I was a real mess. Rest, feeling at peace taking care of your children, Al Anon, time for your studies - this sounds like such a great deal for you!
Hope you sort out what to do with your boyfriend. Honestly, my ex also looked nice, and was funny when drinking, a guy just like any other - until the verbal abuse started. Then it was hell. Alcohol uses denial (in the alcoholic and everyone around) and the element of SURPRISE. I hope you can talk to the therapist honestly.
You have a lot of responsibilities on your plate now. You do not need another child. If there will be someone in your life, it will be a partner, who will always be there for you (by always I mean always)and does not represent a source of worry or heartache - someone who represents all what is good in this life, makes you feel peaceful and motivated. An enhancement. Someone who takes you by the hand when you are floundering, and someone you can take by the hand when he is. A daily entry on your Gratitude List. Someone who reminds you of the dream you have about yourself, and helps you get closer to it.
After a psychologist gave me the definition of how a partner looks like on the Planet of Healthy People, I was able to see my reality more clearly.
Hugs!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
glad to hear you have made a decision.. hope it works out just the way you want it to 
the therapist thing.. hmmm.. pushing for a commitment from your guy if he is just a little cold in the feet is one thing, pushing for a commitment from someone who has trouble with emotional regualtion is quite another.. it's a recipe for hurt and it is likely to be all yours..
I may be naive but I think if two people talk about commitment (getting engaged and getting married etc.) then it is taken off again, then it is put back on etc. etc. .. then that discussion can't be take too seriously. Most people when they say 'lets get married' just go ahead and move towards it.. timescale and details will be worked out.. but it is never just taken off the agenda with an 'I'm not ready'.. maybe one party will say 'I'm not ready yet'.. but that's a whole different message.
And never ever ever give up your independence to this man. Always have the things in place that mean if his emotional regulator is set on cold and distant and he wants out, you have the means to stand alone.
the therapist thing.. hmmm.. pushing for a commitment from your guy if he is just a little cold in the feet is one thing, pushing for a commitment from someone who has trouble with emotional regualtion is quite another.. it's a recipe for hurt and it is likely to be all yours..
I may be naive but I think if two people talk about commitment (getting engaged and getting married etc.) then it is taken off again, then it is put back on etc. etc. .. then that discussion can't be take too seriously. Most people when they say 'lets get married' just go ahead and move towards it.. timescale and details will be worked out.. but it is never just taken off the agenda with an 'I'm not ready'.. maybe one party will say 'I'm not ready yet'.. but that's a whole different message.
And never ever ever give up your independence to this man. Always have the things in place that mean if his emotional regulator is set on cold and distant and he wants out, you have the means to stand alone.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
My therapist knows about BF's struggle with alcohol. She is also the one who keeps bringing up this commitment thing--even though I've told her I don't even know if I want it anymore. Very strange.
I'm not under any illusion that my ABF has any security to offer me. I was before, completely captivated by the idea of living happily every after--after all. My marriage was a nightmare. Meeting this perfectly wonderful guy, who adores me, is well-educated, charming, brilliant, handsome, a good lover, etc. AND who wanted to marry me and make all my dreams come true! Very hard to resist. Frankly, I don't blame myself!
The marriage talk did have a "yet" attached. But. My timetable may just not work with his--without attaching any blame. I am no longer sure I want a relationship that feels like this one. That is one of my reasons for seeking therapy. Trying to figure out what's real and what's magical thinking. How much of my anxiety is a reasonable reaction to the situation, how much of it is that I have free-floating anxiety anyhow.
Loads of self-doubt.
I don't have any desire to be dependent on anyone (though some healthy interdependence would be nice!) I just want to have a decent QOL--not talking money here, it's more about time and mental space and not feeling run down all the time. I don't want to look back at my children's childhood and think that I missed all the joy of it because of exhaustion/depression/anxiety.
I think it's very interesting that right as it came time to sign the teaching contract, I had 3 out of the last 4 days when I really needed NOT to work (sick child, no backup because grandma is out of town). I don't usually believe it such things, but I think there may have been some HP in all of this. I know I don't ever want to feel so torn again. My daughter is only four years old, but for the last two, I've had to take her to daycare when she shouldn't have gone, leave her with grandma when she only wanted me, and also tolerated suboptimal childcare situations because I felt powerless to do anything different.
I'm not under any illusion that my ABF has any security to offer me. I was before, completely captivated by the idea of living happily every after--after all. My marriage was a nightmare. Meeting this perfectly wonderful guy, who adores me, is well-educated, charming, brilliant, handsome, a good lover, etc. AND who wanted to marry me and make all my dreams come true! Very hard to resist. Frankly, I don't blame myself!
The marriage talk did have a "yet" attached. But. My timetable may just not work with his--without attaching any blame. I am no longer sure I want a relationship that feels like this one. That is one of my reasons for seeking therapy. Trying to figure out what's real and what's magical thinking. How much of my anxiety is a reasonable reaction to the situation, how much of it is that I have free-floating anxiety anyhow.
Loads of self-doubt.
I don't have any desire to be dependent on anyone (though some healthy interdependence would be nice!) I just want to have a decent QOL--not talking money here, it's more about time and mental space and not feeling run down all the time. I don't want to look back at my children's childhood and think that I missed all the joy of it because of exhaustion/depression/anxiety.
I think it's very interesting that right as it came time to sign the teaching contract, I had 3 out of the last 4 days when I really needed NOT to work (sick child, no backup because grandma is out of town). I don't usually believe it such things, but I think there may have been some HP in all of this. I know I don't ever want to feel so torn again. My daughter is only four years old, but for the last two, I've had to take her to daycare when she shouldn't have gone, leave her with grandma when she only wanted me, and also tolerated suboptimal childcare situations because I felt powerless to do anything different.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
I don't blame you either. In the early stages of my relationship when I thought I had a diamond I was completely happy to discuss future commitment. It's like OMG, this person is too good to be true.. yep.. like the old saying goes, if it's too good to be true it probably is.
Healthy interdependence. That's it right there. What successful human relationships are made of. Give and take with no agendas and martyrdom. I called out the warning on dependence because it can happen by stealth and simply being too worn down to be go getting and on your own two feet. I heard the other day that a healthy relationship is an 'H'.. you are both standing upright with a bridge across that connects you. If that bridge goes you still have two 'I's. The bridge is there not to keep the 'I's together or to prop them but to join them. An unhealthy relationship is like an 'A' (ironic huh)... a broken down 'H' being propped up.
You sound like you are exhausted but getting there. Keep your head up.. this too shall pass.. :ghug
Healthy interdependence. That's it right there. What successful human relationships are made of. Give and take with no agendas and martyrdom. I called out the warning on dependence because it can happen by stealth and simply being too worn down to be go getting and on your own two feet. I heard the other day that a healthy relationship is an 'H'.. you are both standing upright with a bridge across that connects you. If that bridge goes you still have two 'I's. The bridge is there not to keep the 'I's together or to prop them but to join them. An unhealthy relationship is like an 'A' (ironic huh)... a broken down 'H' being propped up.
You sound like you are exhausted but getting there. Keep your head up.. this too shall pass.. :ghug
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
I am still trying to get my head around your therapist encouraging you to commit to your Abf in spite of his active drinking and you being in a rather emotional state of mind. To be honest I would advise you commit Hari Kari before committing to him, wouldn't be any less painful or less dangerous.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Hmmmm....yeah. I'd be a little suspicious of your therapist's tack as well. But I always try to remember that they are just people. Often they themselves are recovering codependents with their own agenda and their own unsolved issues. I know you have that kind of logical brain too, so caveat emptor and all that.
I made a switch one year from working with a therapist to working with a life coach. There were a lot of the same elements at play -- building self-confidence, dealing with past pain, finding the right balance of employment and fulfillment, mapping a future with more joy -- but it was very nuts-and-bolts, action-oriented rather than talking-oriented. It felt good to DO something rather than just talk Perhaps an element of this would be helpful to you as well.
Sounds like you're doing what you need to do, nowwhat. I'm glad you've reached a good place with your decision. I'd just definitely keep your eyes WIDE open in your situation with ABF. There are many, many red flags in that situation, and, as the wise ones here like to say, red flags are not meant to be collected as party favors
Do go back and read your posts here from the beginning. It helps me to keep a very clear view of the upsides and downsides of what I'm choosing.
I have been in relationships where I was very clear that I stayed because it served a need for me at the time, even though I knew in my heart I could never commit to it. When the time came where I felt a decision was needed, I made it. I understand your feelings there.
Take care of yourself and your kids on this grand adventure.
Hugs,
GL
I made a switch one year from working with a therapist to working with a life coach. There were a lot of the same elements at play -- building self-confidence, dealing with past pain, finding the right balance of employment and fulfillment, mapping a future with more joy -- but it was very nuts-and-bolts, action-oriented rather than talking-oriented. It felt good to DO something rather than just talk
Perhaps an element of this would be helpful to you as well.Sounds like you're doing what you need to do, nowwhat. I'm glad you've reached a good place with your decision. I'd just definitely keep your eyes WIDE open in your situation with ABF. There are many, many red flags in that situation, and, as the wise ones here like to say, red flags are not meant to be collected as party favors
Do go back and read your posts here from the beginning. It helps me to keep a very clear view of the upsides and downsides of what I'm choosing.
I have been in relationships where I was very clear that I stayed because it served a need for me at the time, even though I knew in my heart I could never commit to it. When the time came where I felt a decision was needed, I made it. I understand your feelings there.
Take care of yourself and your kids on this grand adventure.
Hugs,
GL
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