Detachment
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3
Detachment
I have a question and hope someone can help me. I am new here and have read and read. Can someone define or provide more insight on "detachment".
I assume it means not engaging in arguements or discussions when the addict tries to justify behavior, etc.
I am also struggling with how to handle something. I have definitely been an enabler!! I have decided rather than explain this to my husband with words, I will explain by my actions. I don't control his use of pot, and I am not responsible for his health that he refuses to take responsibility for. All that being said....where does having sex come in to play? I am confused on this. I realize that sex is not a bargaining tool, but is it considered enabling if I have sex with him? I would NOT do this while he is high, becuase I do feel that I am condoning the behavior. If I have sex with him when he's not high, then I feel like I am saying..."Good Boy, here's your reward!!" I love my husband, but I am definitely in the "working on ME" stage. I am very conflicted on how to view and handle this....????
I appreciate any insight that anyone could provide.
Thanks for all of the wonderful support on here.
I assume it means not engaging in arguements or discussions when the addict tries to justify behavior, etc.
I am also struggling with how to handle something. I have definitely been an enabler!! I have decided rather than explain this to my husband with words, I will explain by my actions. I don't control his use of pot, and I am not responsible for his health that he refuses to take responsibility for. All that being said....where does having sex come in to play? I am confused on this. I realize that sex is not a bargaining tool, but is it considered enabling if I have sex with him? I would NOT do this while he is high, becuase I do feel that I am condoning the behavior. If I have sex with him when he's not high, then I feel like I am saying..."Good Boy, here's your reward!!" I love my husband, but I am definitely in the "working on ME" stage. I am very conflicted on how to view and handle this....????
I appreciate any insight that anyone could provide.
Thanks for all of the wonderful support on here.
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
Hi! Welcome! Glad you are here!
Detachment is a tough one. You can dettach in many different ways. Detach with Love (very hard), Detatch with indifference (easier).
My BIG dettachment momnet with my A was when he called me drunk and he had just drove his car into a ditch while it was pretty snowy out. He wanted me to come get him. I simply said "I cannot come get you, the kids are sleeping. If you would like a tow truck I can call you one".
He hung up and I have no clue what came of it. But you see there were a lot of different ways I could react to that situation.
As far as sex goes, I do not base that on the A in my life I base it on our emotional connection and getting my emotional needs met. I see it as an extention of our emotions. We have not had a positive, loving, nuturing, emotional connection for a long time. Hence we have not had sex. That is just me though
Detachment is a tough one. You can dettach in many different ways. Detach with Love (very hard), Detatch with indifference (easier).
My BIG dettachment momnet with my A was when he called me drunk and he had just drove his car into a ditch while it was pretty snowy out. He wanted me to come get him. I simply said "I cannot come get you, the kids are sleeping. If you would like a tow truck I can call you one".
He hung up and I have no clue what came of it. But you see there were a lot of different ways I could react to that situation.
As far as sex goes, I do not base that on the A in my life I base it on our emotional connection and getting my emotional needs met. I see it as an extention of our emotions. We have not had a positive, loving, nuturing, emotional connection for a long time. Hence we have not had sex. That is just me though
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
I can only give you my interpretation of detachment, based on my marriage with an A and my learning experience in Al-Anon and counseling.
Detachment does not mean I practice the I'm-not-speaking-to-you-cause-I'm-pi$$ed. It does not mean that I sigh while I pick up all the clothes he left lying around on the floor but couldn't get into the washer. It does not mean that I have a victim mentality, a martyr mentality, or an you-owe-me-you-SOB mentality.
Detachment means I see my AH as a separate, distinct individual. He chose to drink himself to death. I don't interfere with his choice, lecture, nag, buy him booze, argue with him, negotiate a compromise with him...whatever.
Sex? That is a personal decision only you can make. I have watched the progression of addiction. It ain't pretty. What is left of the man I loved is unappealing to me. And I am not referring to his emotional and verbal abuse. I let go of that and forgave him. But what I am looking at today is a skeleton; nothing more than sagging skin hanging from bones. He has emotional and physical problems. This is not the type of person with whom I wish to have sex. The desire is gone.
Addicts frequently use sex as a form of manipulation or to make their partner feel guilty for withholding. I've seen a number or posts on this site that have dealt with that subject.
Are you seeing sex as a reward/bargaining tool from your point of view of from his? If you want to have sex, go ahead. But do so for your own reasons. If he sees it as "Good boy ... you weren't high today," then you are either attempting to read his mind or figure his motivations into the equation.
Sex is never a bargaining tool. For either party. If you feel he is coming from that perspective, you may want to reconsider your own motivations. My bottom line opinion on sex is it is an expression of love on a very intimate level between two people.
I was done with sex when I realized my AH had no capacity for emotional intimacy or nurturing. I didn't feel like being a partner in the land of no-speak, let's deny I'm an addict. I don't think, at this point, that he can even relate to me as a human being. Without the other components that are crucial, in my opinion, sex is nothing more than a physical release for tension.
Detachment does not mean I practice the I'm-not-speaking-to-you-cause-I'm-pi$$ed. It does not mean that I sigh while I pick up all the clothes he left lying around on the floor but couldn't get into the washer. It does not mean that I have a victim mentality, a martyr mentality, or an you-owe-me-you-SOB mentality.
Detachment means I see my AH as a separate, distinct individual. He chose to drink himself to death. I don't interfere with his choice, lecture, nag, buy him booze, argue with him, negotiate a compromise with him...whatever.
Sex? That is a personal decision only you can make. I have watched the progression of addiction. It ain't pretty. What is left of the man I loved is unappealing to me. And I am not referring to his emotional and verbal abuse. I let go of that and forgave him. But what I am looking at today is a skeleton; nothing more than sagging skin hanging from bones. He has emotional and physical problems. This is not the type of person with whom I wish to have sex. The desire is gone.
Addicts frequently use sex as a form of manipulation or to make their partner feel guilty for withholding. I've seen a number or posts on this site that have dealt with that subject.
Are you seeing sex as a reward/bargaining tool from your point of view of from his? If you want to have sex, go ahead. But do so for your own reasons. If he sees it as "Good boy ... you weren't high today," then you are either attempting to read his mind or figure his motivations into the equation.
Sex is never a bargaining tool. For either party. If you feel he is coming from that perspective, you may want to reconsider your own motivations. My bottom line opinion on sex is it is an expression of love on a very intimate level between two people.
I was done with sex when I realized my AH had no capacity for emotional intimacy or nurturing. I didn't feel like being a partner in the land of no-speak, let's deny I'm an addict. I don't think, at this point, that he can even relate to me as a human being. Without the other components that are crucial, in my opinion, sex is nothing more than a physical release for tension.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Sex requires a level of emotional (not just physical) intimacy within a relationship that an active addict can't offer me.
Today I choose not to have an active addict in my life because I deserve a whole and healthy partner.
Today I choose not to have an active addict in my life because I deserve a whole and healthy partner.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Personally, as others have said, I would not be having sex with someone from whom I was detached. Intimacy and detachment are, to me, mutually exclusive. When and insofar as I am detached from someone, I cannot be intimate with them. Detachment is about pulling back and protecting myself; intimacy is about connecting and risking vulnerability. Trying to do both at the same time is nothing but a confusing mind-f*ck for me and for the other person as well.
Detachment is a tool that allows me to retain my serenity and my distance from all of the drama and BS that accompanies dysfunction. It is a good tool, a valuable tool and a powerful tool...but, for me, it is also a short-term, situational, temporary solution tool. The reason it is a short-term, situational temporary solution tool for me is because I want to be emotionally involved in and emotionally invested in my life and in the important relationships in my life. When I am detached, I am "pulled back" emotionally in order to maintain my safety and my serenity. Sometimes, even in good healthy relationships, that is necessary....but if I find myself having to pull myself back emotionally from any person or from any situation on a fairly constant basis over the long-term, then I probably need to be asking myself if that person and/or that situation is really good and healthy for me to have in my life.
freya
Detachment is a tool that allows me to retain my serenity and my distance from all of the drama and BS that accompanies dysfunction. It is a good tool, a valuable tool and a powerful tool...but, for me, it is also a short-term, situational, temporary solution tool. The reason it is a short-term, situational temporary solution tool for me is because I want to be emotionally involved in and emotionally invested in my life and in the important relationships in my life. When I am detached, I am "pulled back" emotionally in order to maintain my safety and my serenity. Sometimes, even in good healthy relationships, that is necessary....but if I find myself having to pull myself back emotionally from any person or from any situation on a fairly constant basis over the long-term, then I probably need to be asking myself if that person and/or that situation is really good and healthy for me to have in my life.
freya
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 125
Detachment
Hi IWillNotEnable - nice name!
Detachment for me was hard to understand when I read about it in a book. I've since learned it from reading responses to messages on this board and other books on how to deal with A's.
I think it's kind of separating yourself emotionally from a person's self-destructive decisions. We tend to delve right into something we want to help change or correct, or when we want to help someone see the light. Then we can't help but feel responsible for the outcome, or for tweaking our controlling behavior according to their inconsistent behavior. When we stop supervising and criticizing and watching over our addict, we give him the space to do as he pleases. He may want to do something that a non-addict can see as subsequently destructive, but if we stop throwing ourselves in between him and the wall to soften the blow - we're no longer hurting ourselves.
I'm sitting at work today, feeling blue, writing email messages about what happened this weekend, crying here and there, trying to get a little work done, and my supervisor tells me I need to pick up my productivity. My ABF is out visiting family for two nights, enjoying the day, maybe sneaking a drink here and there, completely ignorning the upcoming consequences of his behavior of past years. Had I been consciously detached today, I would have been focused on the present time, on what's right for me, doing my work and not wasting energy on my ABF. Instead, I was attaching myself, my mind, my emotions to anything related to him - holding onto his baggage as if it were my own.
Hey, if he gets drunk and gets thrown out of his aunt's house again, that's his problem. No need to yell at him, wave a finger or call anyone to apologize or get emotionally involved. I think detachment is letting your mind not become consumed with the self-destructive behavior, because frankly, it's not your behavior to be focused on. If you don't like what he's bringing to the table, you have the right to move on.
As for your sex question - we are creatures of habit. We are easily conditioned. What's your favorite food combo? Would you like to eat one without the other, or you'd rather have them together? Can you go to the movies and not eat popcorn, or would you rather not go to the movies?
(I actually was like that when I was younger.) When I was in elementary school, every Friday, we went out for pizza and a coke for lunch. My parents would give me $1 (that's ONE dollar) and I'd get a slice of pizza and a bottle of coke. I got to the point in life where I didn't want to have pizza unless I had coke, and vice versa. As an adult, pepperment tea with a banana nut muffin was my breakfast every day for a year. If there was no peppermint tea, I didn't want the muffin. Hear a song and think of a specific person or thing and cry or get happy? We form habits of associating things with things. Have you done something out of habit, that you didn't mean to do? That all comes from conditioning.
I feel that the strongest way to condition is through actions. It may take longer than using words, but words mean nothing to the A, in my opinion. My ABF tells me how much he loves and misses me, but yet he didn't bother to get that day job he wanted so we could spend more time together, but got a second waiter job so he's never home when I'm home. Actions. Words, not backed up with actions, are idle threats. And no one respects an idle threat.
I've felt strongly about not having sex with my ABF when he smelled like alcohol. I gave him any excuse. I felt he would become defensive and dismiss my excuse if I told him he smelled like alcohol. He was, and still is, in denial. I was hoping subliminal conditioning would help contribute to his association of unhappiness with alcohol. If it worked or not, I felt it may contribute to an association in a way that I'd never know (unless someone does a study), but it may very well help in the end subconsciously.
(Kind of like using the stairs instead of the elevator. It's not a workout per se, but cumulatively, the calories burned add up.)
A former coworker, as well as my best friend's ex husband, would be really funny when they drank. I didn't notice it until one day, on separate occasions, they each said so. I realized the difference in sober and non-sober personalities. They each were calm and reserved, and made a joke here and there, but when under the influence, they'd be hilarious. Everyone's laughter is what conditioned them to believe they were more fun, they as people counted more when they were funny, and hence, I'm sure they made a direct association with feeling connected/loved/liked/accepted/important with drinking.
So, there's my humble opinion on "good boy/bad boy". Even in econcomics, there's a saying or a rule - you get more of the behavior that you reward.
As for sex, I believe strongly in conditioning. My concern is that these A's have black outs and tend to not know what they're doing. When my ABF went on a binge last year, and I went to the hotel he was in (OK, here's a conditioning example: he binged, I came to the rescue = I show more care and concern when he's binged and hung over, sick and withdrawing), he had some mardi gras like beads that he said some "*****" gave him. Ok. That made me wonder for a bit, but I was still in my "lying to myself" mode. Now - I wonder if anything happened...there are diseases out there. Is he responsible enough to not make out with the girl, not bring her to the room, do their thing, pass out, then she gets up and leaves? So, the question may not be: "should I have sex when he's been drinking", but "Is this what I want for myself? To be asking these kinds of questions?"
Besides, if he treated you sweetly, took you out, celebrated you, you'd feel close enough to have sex. But if he treated you poorly, let's say, ignored your birthday, you wouldn't feel the least bit interested, would you?
I'm going with: you get more of the behavior that you reward. None of us is dogs. But we are subject to conditioning, and I truly believe an A can be conditioned. I think it counts, but just as walking up a flight of stairs instead of taking the escalator counts as "exercise". It's just an added benefit, but not a replacement for the real thing. (As in treatment.)
Hope this helps.
Ready.
Detachment for me was hard to understand when I read about it in a book. I've since learned it from reading responses to messages on this board and other books on how to deal with A's.
I think it's kind of separating yourself emotionally from a person's self-destructive decisions. We tend to delve right into something we want to help change or correct, or when we want to help someone see the light. Then we can't help but feel responsible for the outcome, or for tweaking our controlling behavior according to their inconsistent behavior. When we stop supervising and criticizing and watching over our addict, we give him the space to do as he pleases. He may want to do something that a non-addict can see as subsequently destructive, but if we stop throwing ourselves in between him and the wall to soften the blow - we're no longer hurting ourselves.
I'm sitting at work today, feeling blue, writing email messages about what happened this weekend, crying here and there, trying to get a little work done, and my supervisor tells me I need to pick up my productivity. My ABF is out visiting family for two nights, enjoying the day, maybe sneaking a drink here and there, completely ignorning the upcoming consequences of his behavior of past years. Had I been consciously detached today, I would have been focused on the present time, on what's right for me, doing my work and not wasting energy on my ABF. Instead, I was attaching myself, my mind, my emotions to anything related to him - holding onto his baggage as if it were my own.
Hey, if he gets drunk and gets thrown out of his aunt's house again, that's his problem. No need to yell at him, wave a finger or call anyone to apologize or get emotionally involved. I think detachment is letting your mind not become consumed with the self-destructive behavior, because frankly, it's not your behavior to be focused on. If you don't like what he's bringing to the table, you have the right to move on.
As for your sex question - we are creatures of habit. We are easily conditioned. What's your favorite food combo? Would you like to eat one without the other, or you'd rather have them together? Can you go to the movies and not eat popcorn, or would you rather not go to the movies?
(I actually was like that when I was younger.) When I was in elementary school, every Friday, we went out for pizza and a coke for lunch. My parents would give me $1 (that's ONE dollar) and I'd get a slice of pizza and a bottle of coke. I got to the point in life where I didn't want to have pizza unless I had coke, and vice versa. As an adult, pepperment tea with a banana nut muffin was my breakfast every day for a year. If there was no peppermint tea, I didn't want the muffin. Hear a song and think of a specific person or thing and cry or get happy? We form habits of associating things with things. Have you done something out of habit, that you didn't mean to do? That all comes from conditioning.I feel that the strongest way to condition is through actions. It may take longer than using words, but words mean nothing to the A, in my opinion. My ABF tells me how much he loves and misses me, but yet he didn't bother to get that day job he wanted so we could spend more time together, but got a second waiter job so he's never home when I'm home. Actions. Words, not backed up with actions, are idle threats. And no one respects an idle threat.
I've felt strongly about not having sex with my ABF when he smelled like alcohol. I gave him any excuse. I felt he would become defensive and dismiss my excuse if I told him he smelled like alcohol. He was, and still is, in denial. I was hoping subliminal conditioning would help contribute to his association of unhappiness with alcohol. If it worked or not, I felt it may contribute to an association in a way that I'd never know (unless someone does a study), but it may very well help in the end subconsciously.
(Kind of like using the stairs instead of the elevator. It's not a workout per se, but cumulatively, the calories burned add up.)
A former coworker, as well as my best friend's ex husband, would be really funny when they drank. I didn't notice it until one day, on separate occasions, they each said so. I realized the difference in sober and non-sober personalities. They each were calm and reserved, and made a joke here and there, but when under the influence, they'd be hilarious. Everyone's laughter is what conditioned them to believe they were more fun, they as people counted more when they were funny, and hence, I'm sure they made a direct association with feeling connected/loved/liked/accepted/important with drinking.
So, there's my humble opinion on "good boy/bad boy". Even in econcomics, there's a saying or a rule - you get more of the behavior that you reward.
As for sex, I believe strongly in conditioning. My concern is that these A's have black outs and tend to not know what they're doing. When my ABF went on a binge last year, and I went to the hotel he was in (OK, here's a conditioning example: he binged, I came to the rescue = I show more care and concern when he's binged and hung over, sick and withdrawing), he had some mardi gras like beads that he said some "*****" gave him. Ok. That made me wonder for a bit, but I was still in my "lying to myself" mode. Now - I wonder if anything happened...there are diseases out there. Is he responsible enough to not make out with the girl, not bring her to the room, do their thing, pass out, then she gets up and leaves? So, the question may not be: "should I have sex when he's been drinking", but "Is this what I want for myself? To be asking these kinds of questions?"
Besides, if he treated you sweetly, took you out, celebrated you, you'd feel close enough to have sex. But if he treated you poorly, let's say, ignored your birthday, you wouldn't feel the least bit interested, would you?
I'm going with: you get more of the behavior that you reward. None of us is dogs. But we are subject to conditioning, and I truly believe an A can be conditioned. I think it counts, but just as walking up a flight of stairs instead of taking the escalator counts as "exercise". It's just an added benefit, but not a replacement for the real thing. (As in treatment.)
Hope this helps.
Ready.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
Readytohelp...I wouldn't worry about trying to "condition" an alcoholic or any other adults for that matter, that's way over the line into too much trying to control others, which is a way back into our disease, codependency.
Lets keep this on ourselves and our behavior and stay away from trying to manipulate others. Just be true to yourself and your higher power, and let God worry about what others do. We can't control other people successfully for long. And we shouldn't use sex, IMO, as a tool to manipulate people. Sex should be an enjoyable voluntary exchange between two adults of their own free will, not a means to an end.
Love,
KJ
Lets keep this on ourselves and our behavior and stay away from trying to manipulate others. Just be true to yourself and your higher power, and let God worry about what others do. We can't control other people successfully for long. And we shouldn't use sex, IMO, as a tool to manipulate people. Sex should be an enjoyable voluntary exchange between two adults of their own free will, not a means to an end.
Love,
KJ
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