Former Alk - Teeth rotting out of her head - Advice needed
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: midlands USA
Posts: 3
Former Alk - Teeth rotting out of her head - Advice needed
Hello Everyone, this is my first post. I wish to congratulate everyone here who has kicked the habit and encourage those that are struggling.
My sister, who is in her early 50s, was the worst boozer imaginable. She spent from about 1974 (started partying at discos) to holing up in a bedroom in the late 80s at our enabling parents house drinking pure whiskey by the bottle for years... and always carried a backpack with a whiskey bottle in it because she would start shaking without a frequent "hit", then at night would get bombed.....was unemployed and supposedly "back in school" at that time... just one big drunk.
...until my brother and I finally pulled away from the family and somewhere in the mid to late 90s she miraculously stopped, got an apartment, went to tech school and now has a good job. She did not stop with al anon or anything else. It is a miracle. I still think she may die young from the severe damage she must have done to her body.
My relationship with her is now healed on the surface, but we don't socialize together, nor do we talk about the alcoholism or any issues of the heart... there is still a rigidity and awkwardness. And after 25 years of estrangement, she will start in on telling me what I always did or what kind of person I am if given time. She idolizes our father and likes to claim him but dispute my genetic and behavioral similarities to our dad..
She has never been a pleasant person and has a sharp tongue. Especially during her drunk time she would connstantly "top" or dismiss what someone's opinion was. I became more estranged from her because of her attitude more than for the actual drinking. She would never just agree or let things ride. Here are her habits now:
-Has no social life though she has good social graces generally. Does not really socialize with co-workers, though I know there are very very nice people at her job. Is pleasant with them, tells our mom she is a "hermit". Has one childhood friend that has stuck by her through thick and thin.
-Spends most nights at our mom's, eats dinner there after work, etc. That is not so bad because our mom is a lone widow now and I like having someone keep an eye on her. Kind of weird. Goes to her apartment a couple of nights a week.
-Has amassed a lot of money from not having to buy groceries much and her intensive frugality.
-Nitpicks and talks at great length over minute things... especially how to do things... like our father did except magnified x10. She used to try to appease our dad by being nitpicky and fussy about things along with him...
-Weirdly frugal. - Waters down her shampoo to make it last longer, wears hair ties until they are totally stretched out and finally just fall apart... told me once to pick through a bag of semi-slimy spinach for good leaves instead of throwing out the bag and was prepared to make it a federal case. Very quick to say that questionable produce is probably fine.. obsessed with keeping old coffee around for days and insisted once our brother heat that up instead of making a fresh pot.
-A fussy killjoy with my kids a fair bit of the time... Seems to delight in shutting off the TV (I don't have TV at home myself, but my ex does...they like some good shows on Animal Planet and Discovery, etc)... or fussing that my little daughter went down to the beach without her hair tied... or fussing that my very strong 11 y.o. son was sitting on a tall stool at Xmas and simply must have a short chair lest he fall...made him wait to open his gift while she got a chair etc etc.... I am noticing my two older children are not crazy about her, and seem to prefer she not be around when we visit my mom, but are not saying so openly.
So she basically lives at my mom's, and goes to art shows and museums with my mom fairly often. She of course minces and nitpicks about things like where to park and all that. I can let most of that roll, because she's not drinking and has quit smoking too. I do NOT enjoy her company.
Her teeth have been falling out of her head now for the past 10 years. She now has no front teeth, no canines and I notice a small yellowed molar working itself loose on top. Her bottom front teeth are more intact, how ever there are a few incisors missing (jack-o-lantern style) and the rest of the teeth are hideously rotted along the gumline. She talks through a slit. And her odd forced laugh reminds me of Phyllis Diller, she holds her upper lip down and laughs through the hole underneath, without smiling. The effect is hideous.
With all the layoffs, I am worried about her general rep at work. She is a valued employee because she is still there after some major layoffs, doing the work of 3 people. I am afraid people at work will question her sanity with these hideous teeth, and that overall it could lend to her demise. Otherwise, she dresses well and has good grooming.
My mother is such an enabling space cadet that I had to point the teeth out to her over the phone several years ago!!!! SHE NEVER NOTICED...She is in sort of a zombie mode when with my sis because of the endless nitpicky prattle now and the even more crazy prattle during the drunk years.
So my mom has now had a word with her several times, and my sis says that yes she would go to the dentist sometime. My sis has dental insurance and a big chunk of cash. I spoke with my mom again last night and I am thinking her approach should be to tell her she needs dentures instead of saying "go to the dentist"... just hit her with the worst up front.
You may ask why I don't talk to my sister? Our relationship is too stiff, and I am sure she would take it as some sort of "cut" from me, especially since my teeth are in great shape. I feel under the surface she has some real nasties to let fly at me that remain unresolved. I am always cordial but pretty stoic in her presence, and agreeable with her.
My theory is she cannot face it. Cannot face a dentist with such hideous teeth... just goes into denial about them.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
My sister, who is in her early 50s, was the worst boozer imaginable. She spent from about 1974 (started partying at discos) to holing up in a bedroom in the late 80s at our enabling parents house drinking pure whiskey by the bottle for years... and always carried a backpack with a whiskey bottle in it because she would start shaking without a frequent "hit", then at night would get bombed.....was unemployed and supposedly "back in school" at that time... just one big drunk.
...until my brother and I finally pulled away from the family and somewhere in the mid to late 90s she miraculously stopped, got an apartment, went to tech school and now has a good job. She did not stop with al anon or anything else. It is a miracle. I still think she may die young from the severe damage she must have done to her body.
My relationship with her is now healed on the surface, but we don't socialize together, nor do we talk about the alcoholism or any issues of the heart... there is still a rigidity and awkwardness. And after 25 years of estrangement, she will start in on telling me what I always did or what kind of person I am if given time. She idolizes our father and likes to claim him but dispute my genetic and behavioral similarities to our dad..
She has never been a pleasant person and has a sharp tongue. Especially during her drunk time she would connstantly "top" or dismiss what someone's opinion was. I became more estranged from her because of her attitude more than for the actual drinking. She would never just agree or let things ride. Here are her habits now:
-Has no social life though she has good social graces generally. Does not really socialize with co-workers, though I know there are very very nice people at her job. Is pleasant with them, tells our mom she is a "hermit". Has one childhood friend that has stuck by her through thick and thin.
-Spends most nights at our mom's, eats dinner there after work, etc. That is not so bad because our mom is a lone widow now and I like having someone keep an eye on her. Kind of weird. Goes to her apartment a couple of nights a week.
-Has amassed a lot of money from not having to buy groceries much and her intensive frugality.
-Nitpicks and talks at great length over minute things... especially how to do things... like our father did except magnified x10. She used to try to appease our dad by being nitpicky and fussy about things along with him...
-Weirdly frugal. - Waters down her shampoo to make it last longer, wears hair ties until they are totally stretched out and finally just fall apart... told me once to pick through a bag of semi-slimy spinach for good leaves instead of throwing out the bag and was prepared to make it a federal case. Very quick to say that questionable produce is probably fine.. obsessed with keeping old coffee around for days and insisted once our brother heat that up instead of making a fresh pot.
-A fussy killjoy with my kids a fair bit of the time... Seems to delight in shutting off the TV (I don't have TV at home myself, but my ex does...they like some good shows on Animal Planet and Discovery, etc)... or fussing that my little daughter went down to the beach without her hair tied... or fussing that my very strong 11 y.o. son was sitting on a tall stool at Xmas and simply must have a short chair lest he fall...made him wait to open his gift while she got a chair etc etc.... I am noticing my two older children are not crazy about her, and seem to prefer she not be around when we visit my mom, but are not saying so openly.
So she basically lives at my mom's, and goes to art shows and museums with my mom fairly often. She of course minces and nitpicks about things like where to park and all that. I can let most of that roll, because she's not drinking and has quit smoking too. I do NOT enjoy her company.
Her teeth have been falling out of her head now for the past 10 years. She now has no front teeth, no canines and I notice a small yellowed molar working itself loose on top. Her bottom front teeth are more intact, how ever there are a few incisors missing (jack-o-lantern style) and the rest of the teeth are hideously rotted along the gumline. She talks through a slit. And her odd forced laugh reminds me of Phyllis Diller, she holds her upper lip down and laughs through the hole underneath, without smiling. The effect is hideous.
With all the layoffs, I am worried about her general rep at work. She is a valued employee because she is still there after some major layoffs, doing the work of 3 people. I am afraid people at work will question her sanity with these hideous teeth, and that overall it could lend to her demise. Otherwise, she dresses well and has good grooming.
My mother is such an enabling space cadet that I had to point the teeth out to her over the phone several years ago!!!! SHE NEVER NOTICED...She is in sort of a zombie mode when with my sis because of the endless nitpicky prattle now and the even more crazy prattle during the drunk years.
So my mom has now had a word with her several times, and my sis says that yes she would go to the dentist sometime. My sis has dental insurance and a big chunk of cash. I spoke with my mom again last night and I am thinking her approach should be to tell her she needs dentures instead of saying "go to the dentist"... just hit her with the worst up front.
You may ask why I don't talk to my sister? Our relationship is too stiff, and I am sure she would take it as some sort of "cut" from me, especially since my teeth are in great shape. I feel under the surface she has some real nasties to let fly at me that remain unresolved. I am always cordial but pretty stoic in her presence, and agreeable with her.
My theory is she cannot face it. Cannot face a dentist with such hideous teeth... just goes into denial about them.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 405
Dear Lenni,
Welcome!
Congratulations to your sister for quitting alcohol.
One of the things that I have learned here, is that I cannot control other people's values and decisions.
Why is your sister's decision to not deal with her teeth an issue for you?
Welcome!
Congratulations to your sister for quitting alcohol.
One of the things that I have learned here, is that I cannot control other people's values and decisions.
Why is your sister's decision to not deal with her teeth an issue for you?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by gns 
Why is your sister's decision to not deal with her teeth an issue for you?
I am 50. My mother still sends me meticulously cut-out newspaper articles which she highlights the important parts she thinks I need to read.
She doesn't like the way I get my hair cut.
She thinks I should wear lipstick when I am out in public.
She still critiques my parenting (I have a 20 year old daughter still at home).
This is my mother, and she has no world outside her children, her adult children. My brother is 44. I accept her for who she is.
However, I still get my hair cut the way I like it.
I don't wear lipstick at all, let alone in public.
I do read the articles she sends, then I toss them in the trash.
When she critiques my parenting, I say "I respect your opinion, but I disagree." This frustrates her. That's her problem and not mine.
I am an adult, capable of making my own decisions, right and wrong both.
Your sister is also an adult, no?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I learned, from my alcoholic sisters and brothers, that if I start worrying over all of their problems and decisions, all the repercussions of their lousy choices, that I'll drive myself mad and it won't change a thing.
Your sister's teeth are her problem, and her job is her problem.
If she's unpleasant to be around, and it sounds like she is, you're under no obligation to spend time with her. I myself spent less and less time with the family members that drove me mad -- it was that perception that I HAD to like being around them ("because they're family") that I had to get rid of.
I hope you can too. Run your life for YOU - protect your peace of mind and let others do what they're gonna do.
Good luck!
Your sister's teeth are her problem, and her job is her problem.
If she's unpleasant to be around, and it sounds like she is, you're under no obligation to spend time with her. I myself spent less and less time with the family members that drove me mad -- it was that perception that I HAD to like being around them ("because they're family") that I had to get rid of.
I hope you can too. Run your life for YOU - protect your peace of mind and let others do what they're gonna do.
Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: corpus christi, tx
Posts: 211
Hello and Welcome to SR,
First of all kudo's to your sister for quitting drinking after what sounds like about 20yrs. And your right in that your parents were enabling. Taking that into account remember that most A's stop maturing about the time they become A's and mimicking your fathers's behavior was her bread and butter to stay with them and probably pay for her day to day expenses.
And no she's not in denial about her dental health but she probably is embarassed by it, that's why she's a hermit and sniping at everyone seems to work, your afraid to talk about her teeth w\her or anything else it seems like.
Are you younger or older than her? Is it just the three of you ( siblings )? I might have missed it, but I don't recall seeing any where in your post the words " I love my sister and want to help her "
If your wanting to help her my suggestion would be, first make some calls to denist in her area, explain the years of nelect. It does make a difference because some denist talk down or berate people for poor dental hygiene.
I know this because it's happened to me. Also ask about dental implants, dentures imply old even if only 50 something.
Then armed with that info, I would suggest that you Talk to your sister, start to get to know her as she is now. Give her the info on the denist and let her know that you love her and are concerned about her (bad teeth can cause other health problems) not just say your teeth are ugly and might cause you to lose your job.
It's her life and her decision, but I'm certain that she would become more social if she has her teeth taken care of .
OK one last thing and then I'll quit rambling. I'm #7 out of 9 siblings and I can't imagine having the kind of relationship with any of them as you described having with your sister.
I hope it improves for both of you. Reach out, maybe she's afraid to do that too.
Good Luck,
Linda
First of all kudo's to your sister for quitting drinking after what sounds like about 20yrs. And your right in that your parents were enabling. Taking that into account remember that most A's stop maturing about the time they become A's and mimicking your fathers's behavior was her bread and butter to stay with them and probably pay for her day to day expenses.
And no she's not in denial about her dental health but she probably is embarassed by it, that's why she's a hermit and sniping at everyone seems to work, your afraid to talk about her teeth w\her or anything else it seems like.
Are you younger or older than her? Is it just the three of you ( siblings )? I might have missed it, but I don't recall seeing any where in your post the words " I love my sister and want to help her "
If your wanting to help her my suggestion would be, first make some calls to denist in her area, explain the years of nelect. It does make a difference because some denist talk down or berate people for poor dental hygiene.
I know this because it's happened to me. Also ask about dental implants, dentures imply old even if only 50 something.
Then armed with that info, I would suggest that you Talk to your sister, start to get to know her as she is now. Give her the info on the denist and let her know that you love her and are concerned about her (bad teeth can cause other health problems) not just say your teeth are ugly and might cause you to lose your job.
It's her life and her decision, but I'm certain that she would become more social if she has her teeth taken care of .
OK one last thing and then I'll quit rambling. I'm #7 out of 9 siblings and I can't imagine having the kind of relationship with any of them as you described having with your sister.
I hope it improves for both of you. Reach out, maybe she's afraid to do that too.
Good Luck,
Linda
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: midlands USA
Posts: 3
Thanks for your replies. She is 4 yrs older than me, and my brother is quite a bit younger, 6 years younger than me.
I am asking myself why I am concerned about this. I honestly think it hideous and embarrassing for her and us to have her go about like this. This goes way beyond hairdos, lipstick, or clothes. I do love her as a sister but since the relationship has always been strained since childhood, I don't have any burning desire for closeness... She has been capable of viciousness before becoming a drunk, and I have been cut by her razor tongue more than a few times.... I don't have the desire to get too cozy with her or to reach out to be perfectly honest. I hug her hello and goodbye at family gatherings and enjoy those, but have little desire to hang out with her.
I guess we have made our attempts at letting her know her teeth are unacceptable and I need to just let go of this. Quite frankly I think her next health crisis will probably wind up being in part from the condition of her teeth and the issue will be forced on its own then. I just feel she would be much more relaxed being able to smile and talk naturally, and that she would be able to make a few friends.
My friend who is a manager told me flat out she would not hire someone with teeth rotted out of their head for a white-collar position. A well-driller or a siding contractor would be a different story.
Forgive me if I sound harsh, just saying what comes to mind.
And another thought - She is an adult, yes, but like someone who has been sitting on a blob of gum on the park bench...unawares.
She needs to be told there is a blob of chewing gum on her hind end.. I just don't think she's aware she's keeping the "secret" of having missing and rotted teeth. My brother -in-law had such bad B.O. that the guys at his job called him "armpit". His mother heard about this, and bought him deoderant and gave him a talking-to. He never stank again. He was about 35 when that occurred. We hate to see our family embarrassing themselves and being the butts of gossip and jokes.
I"m open to your opinions so keep them coming, thank you.
I am asking myself why I am concerned about this. I honestly think it hideous and embarrassing for her and us to have her go about like this. This goes way beyond hairdos, lipstick, or clothes. I do love her as a sister but since the relationship has always been strained since childhood, I don't have any burning desire for closeness... She has been capable of viciousness before becoming a drunk, and I have been cut by her razor tongue more than a few times.... I don't have the desire to get too cozy with her or to reach out to be perfectly honest. I hug her hello and goodbye at family gatherings and enjoy those, but have little desire to hang out with her.
I guess we have made our attempts at letting her know her teeth are unacceptable and I need to just let go of this. Quite frankly I think her next health crisis will probably wind up being in part from the condition of her teeth and the issue will be forced on its own then. I just feel she would be much more relaxed being able to smile and talk naturally, and that she would be able to make a few friends.
My friend who is a manager told me flat out she would not hire someone with teeth rotted out of their head for a white-collar position. A well-driller or a siding contractor would be a different story.
Forgive me if I sound harsh, just saying what comes to mind.
And another thought - She is an adult, yes, but like someone who has been sitting on a blob of gum on the park bench...unawares.
She needs to be told there is a blob of chewing gum on her hind end.. I just don't think she's aware she's keeping the "secret" of having missing and rotted teeth. My brother -in-law had such bad B.O. that the guys at his job called him "armpit". His mother heard about this, and bought him deoderant and gave him a talking-to. He never stank again. He was about 35 when that occurred. We hate to see our family embarrassing themselves and being the butts of gossip and jokes.
I"m open to your opinions so keep them coming, thank you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
It's impossible for her not to know she is missing teeth! So it's a little different than gum on the seat of your pants!
I just feel she would be much more relaxed being able to smile and talk naturally, and that she would be able to make a few friends.
Maybe she is happy just the way she is. Maybe it is a useful defense mechanism for her to not feel compelled to make friends. Maybe having friends is a trigger for her drinking and so she is protecting her sobriety in her own (not yours or mine!) way!
She's an adult and has the right to have her personal appearance be what it is.
Sure you can say "I'm concerned about your teeth."
Then you have to just let it go!
I know how you feel, my active Abrother has very bad teeth and he was such a handsome lad. It is easy to get focused on that one glaring thing. But you'll grow as a person yourself when you learn to see past it and let it go. It's on her side of the street and you can only keep your side clean.
Acceptance. Acceptance. Acceptance.
When I accept my powerlessness over other people's lives and decisions I find peace of mind.
Good luck-
peace,
b
I just feel she would be much more relaxed being able to smile and talk naturally, and that she would be able to make a few friends.
Maybe she is happy just the way she is. Maybe it is a useful defense mechanism for her to not feel compelled to make friends. Maybe having friends is a trigger for her drinking and so she is protecting her sobriety in her own (not yours or mine!) way!
She's an adult and has the right to have her personal appearance be what it is.
Sure you can say "I'm concerned about your teeth."
Then you have to just let it go!
I know how you feel, my active Abrother has very bad teeth and he was such a handsome lad. It is easy to get focused on that one glaring thing. But you'll grow as a person yourself when you learn to see past it and let it go. It's on her side of the street and you can only keep your side clean.
Acceptance. Acceptance. Acceptance.
When I accept my powerlessness over other people's lives and decisions I find peace of mind.
Good luck-
peace,
b
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: midlands USA
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Bernadette
Maybe she is happy just the way she is. Maybe it is a useful defense mechanism for her to not feel compelled to make friends. Maybe having friends is a trigger for her drinking and so she is protecting her sobriety in her own (not yours or mine!) way!
And I didn't know there was such a thing as dental implants.
Thank you all :ghug
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